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In the Name of God بسم الله
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Abu Hadi

Muslims in the West - Separation vs Integration

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5 hours ago, StrugglingForTheLight said:

The Prophet summoned people to Islam. If he left people to themselves, we would not have Islam right now.

You are not the Prophet. His mission was to spread the message. Out mission is to adhere to it.

5 hours ago, StrugglingForTheLight said:

If you try to help people understand things, you often come to greater understanding of yourself.

In Saheefa Sajjadiya, it says "And make us callers towards you". 

When people shy away from propagating the truth and not enjoin others to follow it, they make excuse themselves under some righteous pretense that their laziness and lack of resolve to help others and help God's cause is really virtuous because people can decide things for themselves.

When people see other Muslims sin, they think, well they already know better, why make it weird by giving advice to leave the evil.

We shy away from commanding to good and forbidding evil, and then the only ones being commanded to good and forbidding evil is people convinced they are following it anyways and it becomes as the saying goes "preaching to the choir".

I'm not saying to be pushy with your beliefs on to others or go to door to door like Jehovas, but propagating Islam is important. Teaching and spreading knowledge is important.

 

You are still in the infancy of your faith where you still wish there was no religion so you could have sex outside of marriage. The more mature Muslims will tell you that Islamic laws are not a burden but a blessing and their objective is to make us better people.

Are you a perfect Muslim? If so, you could have a point. If not, then your only priority should be to fix you faith and not worry about others. 

Commanding to good and forbidding evil is absolutely part of the faith. But whom is this applicable to? First and foremost you need to apply this to your own nafs. Once you have fixed yourself, then apply it to your immediate and extended family and only then should you go to the rest of the world. 

If all of us focused more on ourselves than others, this world would be so much better for it.

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Well, I think that God doesn't have all people to live in just one country (no matter if is a western-high level life or a muslim country), some people feel they had bad luck or life doesn't go well in certain places, many people never come back to Bogota, because they feel things went bad while they were here. 

I think that if you do God's will everything will be ok, if is God's will you migrate, then migrate, if not, then stay.

The fact that muslim countries don't like foreigners, or foreigners married to natives, is not something from middle east only, as I said in another post, people don't like foreigners here, and many has been killed and this is a multicultural, mix raced (at an unbelievable level), roman-catholic latinamerican country. It happens in asian countries, it happens in black countries and it happens in almost every country, white people can be very racist too.

Maybe the people who agree with Abu hadi could migrate to a muslim country, and people that feel ok in the country where live currently could stay.

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19 hours ago, StrugglingForTheLight said:

You are right Shiaman. This is my last post. I have to reform myself and gain knowledge.

ma'asalama

I hope I didn't offend you in any way. What I said applies to all of us starting  with me.

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On 7/3/2016 at 11:15 PM, baradar_jackson said:

 

I would rather live around them than a bunch of sanctions-lovin', Rosewater-watchin', sodomy-apologist wannabes who are completely oblivious about how much of a disease they are to the world and to themselves.

Who exactly are these 'sanctions-lovin', Rosewater-watchin', sodomy-apologist wannabes'... i'm a bit confused 

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@Abu Hadi The issues you mentioned are prevalent not only in the West, but in most Muslim countries as well. In fact, I was having this discussion the other day and how Muslims in the West are way more compliant with religious obligations and generally more religious than Muslims on this side of the world. I cannot observe my hijab properly and remove it sometimes because of the comments I get. Abayas here are a joke and an insult to modesty. Full on makeup has become a norm and alcohol is well.. as normal as drinking water amongst Shia guys here. Atheism is rising as well (slowly, but it's happening). People here want to become more westernized and you're made fun of if you are religious. 

 

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On 7/2/2016 at 3:16 PM, baradar_jackson said:

 

Bro I'm not saying we all gather in one state. I'm saying: in each city, we should all gather in one neighborhood.

Muslim succession! Invade the west then break off creating mini caliphates! 

KIDDING.

But on the serious side this wouldn't be a bad idea. I wish the US did this on a lot of different scales, own ethnicity, religions, races had their own neighborhoods, business, etc. not segregation but simply separation.

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On 7/22/2016 at 2:19 PM, roya1b100d said:

Muslim succession! Invade the west then break off creating mini caliphates! 

KIDDING.

But on the serious side this wouldn't be a bad idea. I wish the US did this on a lot of different scales, own ethnicity, religions, races had their own neighborhoods, business, etc. not segregation but simply separation.

 

agreed. It's the only way to prevent homogenization. The word "ghetto" should not have such strong negative connotations.

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On July 22, 2016 at 2:19 PM, roya1b100d said:

Muslim succession! Invade the west then break off creating mini caliphates! 

KIDDING.

But on the serious side this wouldn't be a bad idea. I wish the US did this on a lot of different scales, own ethnicity, religions, races had their own neighborhoods, business, etc. not segregation but simply separation.

That's pretty much what happened in America with immigrants from different regions a few generations back. Still is that way in some areas. Sometimes it was even ( sadly) enforced by the dominant culture. 

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On 9/7/2016 at 11:24 PM, Pearl178 said:

@Abu Hadi The issues you mentioned are prevalent not only in the West, but in most Muslim countries as well. In fact, I was having this discussion the other day and how Muslims in the West are way more compliant with religious obligations and generally more religious than Muslims on this side of the world. I cannot observe my hijab properly and remove it sometimes because of the comments I get. Abayas here are a joke and an insult to modesty. Full on makeup has become a norm and alcohol is well.. as normal as drinking water amongst Shia guys here. Atheism is rising as well (slowly, but it's happening). People here want to become more westernized and you're made fun of if you are religious. 

 

I've noticed that too, all protestant christians don't listen to music, and I've heard that some people do it in muslim countries, and when you try to have a conversation about God with christians, they talk about it for many hours without any problem, and if you try to do the same with muslims, they say to you very directly "I don't want to talk about God, I don't like to talk about religion, etc... I personally think that they day in which Islam doesn't exist anymore will come, and that the future will be worse, with much more mean people until just few people and few believers will last, and after that, the rapture, and Quran and Islam won't exist anymore. The prophecies also say that the knowledge of Islam will be passed out but anybody will put it in practice in the proper way or how it should be practiced.

I agree that east countries are turning out into western societies, but there are a lot of pressure among western countries and the elite press to, to make this happen. You always listen to comments about why turkey or muslim countries are not like western countries, etc.. and all this will lead to darkness and perdition.

the muslims will be like the foam of the sea, which means weak for the worldly things.

There is a prophecy too in which muslims will be muslim just the name, (just muslims in the day or just muslims at night) in general people who don't truly believe.

 

Edited by Nataly
I forgot to mention something

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16 hours ago, LeftCoastMom said:

That's pretty much what happened in America with immigrants from different regions a few generations back. Still is that way in some areas. Sometimes it was even ( sadly) enforced by the dominant culture. 

 

Integration is what caused the cultural degeneration of every immigrant group in the US. Germans, Slavs, Hungarians, Irish, Italians. The descendants of those immigrants are now considered "white," and "whites" are generally perceived to have no culture. How did all those groups, with their own distinct heritage, all become united under this culture-less umbrella? Because they lost their ghettoes. When they lost their ghettoes they lost their sense of collective identity and culture.

 

Perhaps the only reason there are any US-born Muslims who actually give a hoot about their religion is because Muslim communities here have not integrated into the rest of society. Integration is a disease which presents itself as an antidote. It is essentially the abolition of culture. And when you abolish culture, what replaces it? Nonsensical so-called progressive ideas which are presented as lofty universal ideas; they are in fact simply appeals to the most base tendencies of human beings.

Edited by baradar_jackson

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^ oh, I dunno...the folks who dragged our grandparents and parents off to boarding schools and the like to be " re-educated" could hardly be labeled " progressive".  Fortunately, we are fighting back to retain our cultures. ..which happen to contain some very  " progressive' ideas.

( I hate dominant culture labels, though) 

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14 hours ago, baradar_jackson said:

 

Integration is what caused the cultural degeneration of every immigrant group in the US. Germans, Slavs, Hungarians, Irish, Italians. The descendants of those immigrants are now considered "white," and "whites" are generally perceived to have no culture. How did all those groups, with their own distinct heritage, all become united under this culture-less umbrella? Because they lost their ghettoes. When they lost their ghettoes they lost their sense of collective identity and culture.

 

Perhaps the only reason there are any US-born Muslims who actually give a hoot about their religion is because Muslim communities here have not integrated into the rest of society. Integration is a disease which presents itself as an antidote. It is essentially the abolition of culture. And when you abolish culture, what replaces it? Nonsensical so-called progressive ideas which are presented as lofty universal ideas; they are in fact simply appeals to the most base tendencies of human beings.

BOOM. Nailed it. It's part of "cultural Marxism" in the west. How do you remove national, ethnic, racial, religious pride and make all of these different people adhere to the secular state? Immigration and integration. I dont mean to sound like a racist ethnocentrist but being a "melting pot" of a secular society and having forced "diversity" is one of the main problems. I'm all for everyone being Americans with a proud national identity (outside of the Zionist NWO) but peoples need to have their own areas to thrive and experience their own heritage and culture.

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38 minutes ago, roya1b100d said:

BOOM. Nailed it. It's part of "cultural Marxism" in the west. How do you remove national, ethnic, racial, religious pride and make all of these different people adhere to the secular state? Immigration and integration. I dont mean to sound like a racist ethnocentrist but being a "melting pot" of a secular society and having forced "diversity" is one of the main problems. I'm all for everyone being Americans with a proud national identity (outside of the Zionist NWO) but peoples need to have their own areas to thrive and experience their own heritage and culture.

 

One of the racist politicians in France made a great point which is sometimes ignored by many of us, because we have applied the word "multicultural" in an incorrect way: she said we want our (French) society to become more like American society. She said France was multi cultural whereas America is multi ethnic. France confines their immigrant communities to the ghetto where their culture survives, whereas in the US everyone's culture becomes subverted and everyone eventually succumbs to the prevailing ideas and norms and values. 

 

You don't sound like a racist. You sound like someone who uses their brain. Unfortunately, saying basic common sense things like this is branded as racism by some.

Edited by baradar_jackson

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1 hour ago, roya1b100d said:

BOOM. Nailed it. It's part of "cultural Marxism" in the west. How do you remove national, ethnic, racial, religious pride and make all of these different people adhere to the secular state? Immigration and integration. I dont mean to sound like a racist ethnocentrist but being a "melting pot" of a secular society and having forced "diversity" is one of the main problems. I'm all for everyone being Americans with a proud national identity (outside of the Zionist NWO) but peoples need to have their own areas to thrive and experience their own heritage and culture.

The melting pot is rather unique to the US, immigration and integration don't seem to be much of a problem here in Canada which is also a secular state.  

Edited by King

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