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On Sunday, July 03, 2016 at 10:58 PM, hadez803 said:

 

I have met a lot of Baha'is in real life life and on internet forums. I have seen the good the bad and the ugly. Start opposing their beliefs instead of accepting what they spoon feed to you and they will show you their ugly side. Bring up some contradictions and then all hell breaks loose. 

Could you speak à little more about "thé good the bad and the ugly" that you saw ?

Which contradictions for exemple ?

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15 hours ago, alidu78 said:

Could you speak à little more about "thé good the bad and the ugly" that you saw ?

Which contradictions for exemple ?

The Good: Normal Baha'i people like all others minding their own business refraining from personal attacks and deception tactics.

The Bad: Baha'is openly hostile to non-Baha'is or those that argue with them.

The Ugly: Seemingly normal Baha'is that transform into the most arrogant pieces of inhumanity once you start opposing their statements or you start exposing the true face of the cult.

I have witnessed again and again the pattern that you can observe in these links and has been observed by others:

https://fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/Caution.htm

 

You asked for contradictions? Everything, every single teaching of their religion has been contradicted in the writings and actions of their leaders. And I really mean it when I say EVERYTHING.

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2 hours ago, hadez803 said:

 

You asked for contradictions? Everything, every single teaching of their religion has been contradicted in the writings and actions of their leaders. And I really mean it when I say EVERYTHING.

Could you give me some websites or vidéos which show the contradictions of this religion ?

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4 hours ago, alidu78 said:

Could you give me some websites or vidéos which show the contradictions of this religion ?

First one is from a Christian:

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/36585/36585-h/36585-h.htm

 

This one analyzes there twelve so called novel principles and shows they were plagiarized from other people and beliefs and the leaders contradicted all of them:

https://archive.org/download/TwelvePrinciples/Twelve Principles - A Comprehensive Investigation on the Bahai Teachings.pdf

 

And you can find some relevant articles here:

http://www.bahaibahai.com/eng/index.php/articles

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sometimes it s good that we open our eyes and try to use our brain more

Baha'i isn't a divine religion . plus US and western countries try to lead  ppl to this religion . western countries r Iran's enemies . y should Iran then allow Bahaiis to b active and act that freely in Iran ? while they actually wanna change Iran's policy and regime . no country surely allows to a minority to change the regime of that country . all countries want peace. which country u see that allows ppl to protest freely against their regime ? all countries want their regime to b fixed and powerful . surely Iran is the same . we don't allow to some ignorant ppl to change our policy and our leader I.A

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On 02/07/2016 at 1:18 PM, alidu78 said:

Nowadays iranian bahais try to stay in iran or most of them are leaving the country ?

Bahais in Iran are strongly encouraged to stay in Iran and support the progress of the country. Those who stay are heroes -- it is if you like a little martyrdom.  On 23 June this year the Universal House of Justice wrote to some Bahais in Iran about their economic hardships, and in the beginning of the letter praised their interest in the progress of the Faith, their willingness to endure hardships in the path of God and their determination to remain in Iran.

The letter is available in Persian here:
http://www.payamha-iran.org/sites/lab.payamha-iran.org/files/sites/adefault/files/2016-06-23 - Persian_0.pdf

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1 minute ago, Sen McGlinn said:

Bahais in Iran are strongly encouraged to stay in Iran and support the progress of the country. Those who stay are heroes -- it is if you like a little martyrdom.  On 23 June this year the Universal House of Justice wrote to some Bahais in Iran about their economic hardships, and in the beginning of the letter praised their interest in the progress of the Faith, their willingness to endure hardships in the path of God and their determination to remain in Iran.

The letter is available in Persian here:
http://www.payamha-iran.org/sites/lab.payamha-iran.org/files/sites/adefault/files/2016-06-23 - Persian_0.pdf

But they dont have the right to have religious building, religious schools or even cemetery isnt it ?

I even heard that they cant go to university ?

Are there other things that they cant do as bahaïs ?

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On 29/06/2016 at 7:43 PM, alidu78 said:

Salam aleykoum  

why bahais are so much persécuted in iran ? Do you think its à good thing for an islamic state to dô that ?

No, it is not a good thing for an Islamic State to persecute minorities: it gives Islam a bad name. Of course, thoughtful people will distinguish between what Islam is as a religion, and what Islamic State and Islamic states do in the name of Islam.  The strange thing is, the Bahais in free countries are among those who make this distinction, who say that Islam is a beautiful religion which should not be judged by the behaviour of the worst of its followers, but rather by the achievements of the best of its civilizations, and its scholars and saints.  The Islamic contribution to "western" civilization is huge, so is the Jewish contribution. In The Secret of Divine Civilization, Abdu'l-Baha argues that the progress of a people is best ensured by a willingness to learn from others, and he points to the contribution of Islamic civilizations to European civilization.

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7 minutes ago, Sen McGlinn said:

No, it is not a good thing for an Islamic State to persecute minorities: it gives Islam a bad name. Of course, thoughtful people will distinguish between what Islam is as a religion, and what Islamic State and Islamic states do in the name of Islam.  The strange thing is, the Bahais in free countries are among those who make this distinction, who say that Islam is a beautiful religion which should not be judged by the behaviour of the worst of its followers, but rather by the achievements of the best of its civilizations, and its scholars and saints.  The Islamic contribution to "western" civilization is huge, so is the Jewish contribution. In The Secret of Divine Civilization, Abdu'l-Baha argues that the progress of a people is best ensured by a willingness to learn from others, and he points to the contribution of Islamic civilizations to European civilization.

Excuse me for my ignorance but bahaïs believe also in the prophet Muhammad (saws) isnt it ?

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7 hours ago, alidu78 said:

Excuse me for my ignorance but bahaïs believe also in the prophet Muhammad (saws) isnt it ?

Yes, Bahais believe in the Prophet Muhammad, and the authenticity of the Quran. That's why Bahais defend Islam against anti-Islamic prejudice and ignorance.

 

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7 hours ago, alidu78 said:

But they dont have the right to have religious building, religious schools or even cemetery isnt it ?

I even heard that they cant go to university ?

Are there other things that they cant do as bahaïs ?

Bahais in Iran do have cemeteries, but these are frequently vandalized or entirely destroyed by the authorities. On July 14 this year, the Bahai cemetery at Qorveh was completely destroyed: even the trees were cut down. See https://sensday.wordpress.com/2016/07/19/security-forces-destroy-bahai-cemetery-in-qorveh-arresting-one-bahai/
 

Bahais in Iran are not allowed to attend tertiary education, but some slip in by filling in the "religion" field in the application forms with "other" or "of course," or they fill in "Bahai" and some official lets it pass. When these Bahais are discovered, they are expelled.

There are tight restrictions on employment for Bahais also: they may not work in the civil service or armed services, although they do compulsory military service and were enlisted during the war with Iraq. They may not be employed or have businesses in sectors that involve food, drink or personal services. the list changes from time to time. On May 19, 2015, Saham News published a copy of the previously secret list of sectors from which Bahais are banned (by that time the list was already five years old, and incomplete). It says that Bahais may not work in cultural, educational or financial institutions, and are not to be allowed to work in the sectors of periodicals, jewelry, watchmaking, print-making, tourist agencies, car rentals, publishing and bookshops, photography, film-making, internet gaming, computers, or internet cafes. They may not own printing works or hotels and other accommodation for travellers, or teach tailoring skills. The order refers to the widespread Iranian belief that Bahais are unclean, and requires the police bureaus to block them from restaurants, cafeterias and catering, food ingredients and foodstuff sales, takeaways (Iranian-style), cafes, butchers shops, supermarkets, the production and sale of ice-cream, fruit juice, soft drinks, pastry and sweets, and coffee. At some stage optometry was apparently added to the list, without distinguishing between import and manufacture on the one hand, and prescription and retail sales on the other hand.

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1 hour ago, Sen McGlinn said:

Bahais in Iran do have cemeteries, but these are frequently vandalized or entirely destroyed by the authorities. On July 14 this year, the Bahai cemetery at Qorveh was completely destroyed: even the trees were cut down. See https://sensday.wordpress.com/2016/07/19/security-forces-destroy-bahai-cemetery-in-qorveh-arresting-one-bahai/
 

Bahais in Iran are not allowed to attend tertiary education, but some slip in by filling in the "religion" field in the application forms with "other" or "of course," or they fill in "Bahai" and some official lets it pass. When these Bahais are discovered, they are expelled.

There are tight restrictions on employment for Bahais also: they may not work in the civil service or armed services, although they do compulsory military service and were enlisted during the war with Iraq. They may not be employed or have businesses in sectors that involve food, drink or personal services. the list changes from time to time. On May 19, 2015, Saham News published a copy of the previously secret list of sectors from which Bahais are banned (by that time the list was already five years old, and incomplete). It says that Bahais may not work in cultural, educational or financial institutions, and are not to be allowed to work in the sectors of periodicals, jewelry, watchmaking, print-making, tourist agencies, car rentals, publishing and bookshops, photography, film-making, internet gaming, computers, or internet cafes. They may not own printing works or hotels and other accommodation for travellers, or teach tailoring skills. The order refers to the widespread Iranian belief that Bahais are unclean, and requires the police bureaus to block them from restaurants, cafeterias and catering, food ingredients and foodstuff sales, takeaways (Iranian-style), cafes, butchers shops, supermarkets, the production and sale of ice-cream, fruit juice, soft drinks, pastry and sweets, and coffee. At some stage optometry was apparently added to the list, without distinguishing between import and manufacture on the one hand, and prescription and retail sales on the other hand.

 

Honnestly if i was a bahai i think i will leave the country. I suppose that each years thousands of bahaïs leave iran. Some statistics say that they are 300 000 but honnestly with all this persecution they are now probably less.

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On 7/22/2016 at 1:39 PM, Sen McGlinn said:

No, it is not a good thing for an Islamic State to persecute minorities: it gives Islam a bad name. Of course, thoughtful people will distinguish between what Islam is as a religion, and what Islamic State and Islamic states do in the name of Islam.  The strange thing is, the Bahais in free countries are among those who make this distinction, who say that Islam is a beautiful religion which should not be judged by the behaviour of the worst of its followers, but rather by the achievements of the best of its civilizations, and its scholars and saints.  The Islamic contribution to "western" civilization is huge, so is the Jewish contribution. In The Secret of Divine Civilization, Abdu'l-Baha argues that the progress of a people is best ensured by a willingness to learn from others, and he points to the contribution of Islamic civilizations to European civilization.

Hello Sen. I have seen your blog - you are really going good job for the Haifa (Israel) based Baha'i organization by translating the persecution news that you receive from your "Reliable Sources" in Iran. I just wanted you ask you about your status as a Baha'i - I mean are you considered as a BIGS (a Baha'i in good standing) by the "Infallible" Baha'i supreme body? Do you have voting rights ? Can you give lectures in Baha'i Centers ? Or is it that you work online only? Why some Baha'is are against you? I hope these are not many questions for you.

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On 7/22/2016 at 0:29 PM, Sen McGlinn said:

Bahais in Iran are strongly encouraged to stay in Iran and support the progress of the country. Those who stay are heroes -- it is if you like a little martyrdom.  On 23 June this year the Universal House of Justice wrote to some Bahais in Iran about their economic hardships, and in the beginning of the letter praised their interest in the progress of the Faith, their willingness to endure hardships in the path of God and their determination to remain in Iran.

The letter is available in Persian here:
http://www.payamha-iran.org/sites/lab.payamha-iran.org/files/sites/adefault/files/2016-06-23 - Persian_0.pdf

Oh hello Sen,

Remember me from our discussion about "Baha'is and incest" on shiachat? And then you put up a whole article on your blog to try address my arguments and put its link here. Well, you see you have a section on your blog here: https://senmcglinn.wordpress.com/about/about-dissenrolment/

In which you speak about being kicked out of Baha'ism without reason. I find it ironic that you spew out Baha'i propaganda and exaggerations here while you are being persecuted by the same UHJ (Baha'i Universal House of Justice) that you are promoting.

You know it is really really sick and saddening that you woke up some one to find out that the Baha'i cult UHJ has decided that you are no longer a Baha'i, kicks you out of the cult, does not provide any explanation for their action, refuses to hear your defense and etc. etc. All these are actions that go against many articles of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and can be labelled as nothing but brutal persecution. What I find astonishing is the fact that still have the nerve to come here and refer us to an article by the same UHJ dictatorship lecturing Iran that they should abide by the Universal Declaration of Human rights regarding Baha'is in Iran. What form of pathetic hypocrisy is this?!!

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On 7/22/2016 at 0:39 PM, Sen McGlinn said:

No, it is not a good thing for an Islamic State to persecute minorities: it gives Islam a bad name. Of course, thoughtful people will distinguish between what Islam is as a religion, and what Islamic State and Islamic states do in the name of Islam.  The strange thing is, the Bahais in free countries are among those who make this distinction, who say that Islam is a beautiful religion which should not be judged by the behaviour of the worst of its followers, but rather by the achievements of the best of its civilizations, and its scholars and saints.  The Islamic contribution to "western" civilization is huge, so is the Jewish contribution. In The Secret of Divine Civilization, Abdu'l-Baha argues that the progress of a people is best ensured by a willingness to learn from others, and he points to the contribution of Islamic civilizations to European civilization.

The only reason that Baha'is defend Islam is because they need it as a lifeline to attach themselves to Abrahamic religions. In reality, Baha'is consider Islam an outdated religion with backward laws that has been superseded by Baha'ism.

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18 hours ago, Sen McGlinn said:

Yes, Bahais believe in the Prophet Muhammad, and the authenticity of the Quran. That's why Bahais defend Islam against anti-Islamic prejudice and ignorance.

 

Yeah right! Baha'u'llah, your leader, denies the existence of Imam Mahdi and praises Jafar al-Kazzab and throws all sorts of profanities at Shia scholars throughout history for believing in the Mahdi:

 

Quote

from Baha'u'llah's Tablets quoted in Faad.il e Maazandaraani Amr va Khalq

Volume 2 page 3

**They asked Ja'far the brother of H.asan 'Askari: "Did your brother have any offspring? " He replied: "There was an infant but he died." But when the temples of falsity [=hayaakil e maj'uulah] heard this utterance they denied him and called Ja'far the Liar. Consider how grievous was their wrong-doing and their falsification. Then they proceeded to make mention of the "sacred precinct", and the appearance of tawqi'at [=communications of the Hidden One] from the sacred precincts with all the details that you have heard of before. May God vouchsafe fairness and equity unto these people for they have left their people in a wilderness of vain imaginings and false ideas, in greater perdition than Abu Lahab.**   http://bahaistudies.net/kf/sixtranslations.html

 

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15 minutes ago, hadez803 said:

Oh hello Sen,

Remember me from our discussion about "Baha'is and incest" on shiachat? And then you put up a whole article on your blog to try address my arguments and put its link here. Well, you see you have a section on your blog here: https://senmcglinn.wordpress.com/about/about-dissenrolment/

In which you speak about being kicked out of Baha'ism without reason. I find it ironic that you spew out Baha'i propaganda and exaggerations here while you are being persecuted by the same UHJ (Baha'i Universal House of Justice) that you are promoting.

You know it is really really sick and saddening that you woke up some one to find out that the Baha'i cult UHJ has decided that you are no longer a Baha'i, kicks you out of the cult, does not provide any explanation for their action, refuses to hear your defense and etc. etc. All these are actions that go against many articles of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and can be labelled as nothing but brutal persecution. What I find astonishing is the fact that still have the nerve to come here and refer us to an article by the same UHJ dictatorship lecturing Iran that they should abide by the Universal Declaration of Human rights regarding Baha'is in Iran. What form of pathetic hypocrisy is this?!!

Bahaïs really believe that incest is good ?

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18 hours ago, Sen McGlinn said:

Bahais in Iran do have cemeteries, but these are frequently vandalized or entirely destroyed by the authorities. On July 14 this year, the Bahai cemetery at Qorveh was completely destroyed: even the trees were cut down. See https://sensday.wordpress.com/2016/07/19/security-forces-destroy-bahai-cemetery-in-qorveh-arresting-one-bahai/
 

Bahais in Iran are not allowed to attend tertiary education, but some slip in by filling in the "religion" field in the application forms with "other" or "of course," or they fill in "Bahai" and some official lets it pass. When these Bahais are discovered, they are expelled.

There are tight restrictions on employment for Bahais also: they may not work in the civil service or armed services, although they do compulsory military service and were enlisted during the war with Iraq. They may not be employed or have businesses in sectors that involve food, drink or personal services. the list changes from time to time. On May 19, 2015, Saham News published a copy of the previously secret list of sectors from which Bahais are banned (by that time the list was already five years old, and incomplete). It says that Bahais may not work in cultural, educational or financial institutions, and are not to be allowed to work in the sectors of periodicals, jewelry, watchmaking, print-making, tourist agencies, car rentals, publishing and bookshops, photography, film-making, internet gaming, computers, or internet cafes. They may not own printing works or hotels and other accommodation for travellers, or teach tailoring skills. The order refers to the widespread Iranian belief that Bahais are unclean, and requires the police bureaus to block them from restaurants, cafeterias and catering, food ingredients and foodstuff sales, takeaways (Iranian-style), cafes, butchers shops, supermarkets, the production and sale of ice-cream, fruit juice, soft drinks, pastry and sweets, and coffee. At some stage optometry was apparently added to the list, without distinguishing between import and manufacture on the one hand, and prescription and retail sales on the other hand.

I'm not addressing the exaggerations and some of the false statements that you threw in your response, I already responded to them a few posts back. But, How do you even allow yourself to speak like this about Iran when the Baha'i cult treats "covenant breakers" like trash and kicks them out of the Baha'i community for good?!!

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5 hours ago, Badi19 said:

Hello Sen. I have seen your blog - you are really going good job for the Haifa (Israel) based Baha'i organization by translating the persecution news that you receive from your "Reliable Sources" in Iran. I just wanted you ask you about your status as a Baha'i - I mean are you considered as a BIGS (a Baha'i in good standing) by the "Infallible" Baha'i supreme body? Do you have voting rights ? Can you give lectures in Baha'i Centers ? Or is it that you work online only? Why some Baha'is are against you? I hope these are not many questions for you.

I am an unenrolled Bahai. In my case, the Universal House of Justice decided I do not meet the requirements for membership, which means I cannot be on the membership rolls, and therefore cannot vote or be elected to office. I do sometimes give presentations (I am just back from a seminar where I spoke on Abdu'l-Baha's letter to E. Wrestling Brewster, concerning Emanuel Swedenborg. But that is rare, I usually present and publish online which is better in so many ways. If I go to a conference it's mainly to meet old friends. 

I have suffered somewhat from personal jealousies and slanders, but generally speaking, if you find Bahais who are "against" me, it is probably not personal, just different perspective on some matters.

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