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M.A Hayyan

Answer these questions, and I will become Shia

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3 hours ago, M.A Hayyan said:

Guys! I'm still in perplexing situation. At one point, I believe it is wrong to disrespect any of the wives of Prophet Muhammad SAW, and on the other hand, I believe we shouldn't send lanah to anyone because it goes against the teachings of Ahl al Bait and Prophet's teachings. 

My words have proved to be true.

Wassalam

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4 hours ago, M.A Hayyan said:

And what is the proof that Prophet AS and Ahl Al Bait teachings were not corrupted by Shia scholars, who introduced innovations like, chest-beating, mutah, disrespecting and lanah sending, worshiping graves, and asking for help from graves... can you give proofs of all these things?

You are asking questions like how Israel tribe asked questions to escape their duties and truth. I highly doubt you are after any truth. You said you had studied a lot about Shia but now you are asking such childish questions !

There are enough ignorant Shias like me we do not need another one go follow whatever you want leave us in our shirk and kufr soon we will see the truth hereafter !!

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5 hours ago, Mir Ali said:

Well said brother, even I suspect that this guy is here to create controversy and not learn about our faith.

The way he is talking, i don't think he has read the proofs provided by other brothers in this thread. 

If he would have read it, he wouldn't have asked the same questions again.

You are way too judgmental bro! I'm here to ask questions which is my right and I was not satisfied with the anwers previously provided... Had there been a good scholar on this forum, he might have understood my situation, So stop judging and start removing the doubts and questions being raised on shia islam... simple!

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1 hour ago, maes said:

You are asking questions like how Israel tribe asked questions to escape their duties and truth. I highly doubt you are after any truth. You said you had studied a lot about Shia but now you are asking such childish questions !

There are enough ignorant Shias like me we do not need another one go follow whatever you want leave us in our shirk and kufr soon we will see the truth hereafter !!

I just want clarification who is right and who is wrong is very difficult to decide. Some teachings of yours do make sense to me but others don't. In this situation what should a man do? If questions are not raised, everything is ok, but if questions are raised it offends both shias as well sunnis. Time to leave the earth :cuddle:

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5 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

Based on your definition that people of hell wear black, you have just  proven yourself to be a kafir because the Prophet wore black and died wearing black.

Jabir b. Abdullah reported that Allah's Apostle (ﷺ) entered on the day of Victory of Mecca wearing a black turban on his head.
Sahih Muslim
Book 15, Hadith 514

Narrated Abu Burda:
Aisha brought out to us a Kisa and an Izar and said, "The Prophet (ﷺ) died while wearing these two." (Kisa, a square black piece of woolen cloth. Izar, a sheet cloth garment covering the lower half of the body).
Sahih al-Bukhari
Book 77, Hadith 35

'A'isha reported that Allah's Apostle (ﷺ) went out one norning wearing a striped cloak of the black camel's hair that there came Hasan b. 'Ali. He wrapped hitn under it, then came Husain and he wrapped him under it along with the other one (Hasan). Then came Fatima and he took her under it, then came 'Ali and he also took him under it and then said:
Allah only desires to take away any uncleanliness from you, O people of the household, and purify you (thorough purifying)

Sahih Muslim
Book 44, Hadith 91

Let us know once you have done istigfar so we can continue making you shia.

First, I'm not defining Shias on my own turn I respect both sunnis and shias point of views, though somewhere shias are wrong and somewhere they are right. Somewhere sunnis are wrong and shias are right. And thank you for giving me fatawa of a kafir. You have proved yourself that how devoted you are with teachings of Ahl al Bait AS... May Allah forgive you for saying so

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5 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

Based on your definition that people of hell wear black, you have just  proven yourself to be a kafir because the Prophet wore black and died wearing black.

Jabir b. Abdullah reported that Allah's Apostle (ﷺ) entered on the day of Victory of Mecca wearing a black turban on his head.
Sahih Muslim
Book 15, Hadith 514

Narrated Abu Burda:
Aisha brought out to us a Kisa and an Izar and said, "The Prophet (ﷺ) died while wearing these two." (Kisa, a square black piece of woolen cloth. Izar, a sheet cloth garment covering the lower half of the body).
Sahih al-Bukhari
Book 77, Hadith 35

'A'isha reported that Allah's Apostle (ﷺ) went out one norning wearing a striped cloak of the black camel's hair that there came Hasan b. 'Ali. He wrapped hitn under it, then came Husain and he wrapped him under it along with the other one (Hasan). Then came Fatima and he took her under it, then came 'Ali and he also took him under it and then said:
Allah only desires to take away any uncleanliness from you, O people of the household, and purify you (thorough purifying)

Sahih Muslim
Book 44, Hadith 91

Let us know once you have done istigfar so we can continue making you shia.

and for me it will be better to just be in between shias and sunnis, rather become a radical like you. 

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6 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

Initially you only had 3 questions so why the extra questions.

Have you read Surah Tahrim? Our love for the Prophet supersedes love for everyone else. There were certain wives who caused the Prophet tremendous grief and strife. We call them out on it. Sorry if the truth offends you.

Lanah - Again, the Quran is full of references where Allah makes la'an on people and tells people too as well. 1 example:

[Quran 3:61] But whoever disputes with you in this matter after what has come to you of knowledge, then say: Come let us call our sons and your sons and our women and your women and our near people and your near people, then let us be earnest in prayer, and pray for the curse of Allah on the liars.

Other answers:

  • Black is mourn as a symbol of mourning. Nothing wrong with it. Moreover, isnt the cover of the Kaaba black?
  • Chest beating is a sign of mourning; not obligatory
  • Who worship graves? Visiting a grave and praying to Allah is not grave-worshipping
  • Allah has recommended tawassul
  • Worship horse?
  • Mutah - people already provided proof from Sunni sources that Caliph Umar forbade this practice. Re-read this thread.
  • Anyone who hurts the Prophet should get la'an. If you agree, then read surah tahrim and munafiqoon.
  • ShiaChat has so many revert stories - those that left other faiths and accepted Allah as their God, Muhammad as his Prophet, and Ali as the sucessor of the Prophet.
  • Innovations? Caliph Umar was the first one to start innovation (as-salat khair min naum, taraweeh, etc). "good bidah" is a phrase he coined.
  • Shias are original Muslims. Sunnis divided. After all, the 4 Sunni schools of thought came after our 6 imam so before then what was everyone following?

As I suspected and previously stated, you are not here to convert but discuss/argue. As such, just say so. No need to play childish games.

re-read this thread. answers are already provided.

Bro if it offended you my apologies for that, but I;m asking same kind of questions from sunnis too, and they get offended the same way... don't know where to go :einstein:

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1 hour ago, M.A Hayyan said:

I believe somewhere shias are right, somewhere sunnis. 

The minor issues are  not part of belief in the way sunni presents. All we believe in

Tawheed,  Adal, Nabuwah, imamamh, qayamah 

These are pillars of Shia belief.

Do you know about  these before going to the minor issues?

You seem to be ignorant of basic beliefs  of Shia and then you try to claim without knowing them. they are not right?

This is what is called ridiculous thinking. I do not find you a seeker of the truth with open mind and clear heart except whirling in the pool of your own intentions.

Wassalam

Edited by skamran110

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1 hour ago, M.A Hayyan said:

And thank you for giving me fatawa of a kafir. You have proved yourself that how devoted you are with teachings of Ahl al Bait AS... May Allah forgive you for saying so

and for me it will be better to just be in between shias and sunnis, rather become a radical like you. 

So brother I am sorry if I offended you as that was not the intention. However how can you correlate shias wearing black with hell-dwellers and expect all shias on thus forum to not be offended. Moreover, I used logic to prove your statement wrong that the dwellers of hell wear black so wouldn't a better response have been to simply recant your statement? 

If both you statement about black and my hadith about the prophet wearing black are true, then what I said is the only logical outcome. 

So is the hadithcorrect that the dwellers of hell wear black?

 

1 hour ago, M.A Hayyan said:

Bro if it offended you my apologies for that, but I;m asking same kind of questions from sunnis too, and they get offended the same way... don't know where to go :einstein:

I am not offended at any of your questions. By all means ask as many of them as you want? However, in these discussions you have to have a thick skin as you may not always like the answer you get.

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4 hours ago, skamran110 said:

The minor issues are  not part of belief in the way sunni presents. All we believe in

Tawheed,  Adal, Nabuwah, imamamh, qayamah 

These are pillars of Shia belief.

Do you know about  these before going to the minor issues?

You seem to be ignorant of basic beliefs  of Shia and then you try to claim without knowing them. they are not right?

This is what is called ridiculous thinking. I do not find you a seeker of the truth with open mind and clear heart except whirling in the pool of your own intentions.

Wassalam

Where is Hajj, zakah, and fasting? 
Why do you believe in adal and Imamah? Are these pillars of islam given to you by Hazrat Ali?

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4 hours ago, M.A Hayyan said:

Where is Hajj, zakah, and fasting? 
Why do you believe in adal and Imamah? Are these pillars of islam given to you by Hazrat Ali?

Hajj, Zakah and Fasting are included in prophethood. Well it is a lot reason and background why Shia insists on adal and imamah. It has a history about the interaction of sects and schools of thought with each other. But we can look at it from this view point too. 

Adal and Imamah are well described in these verses :

he said: o iblis! what excuse have you that you are not with those who make obeisance? (Quran 15:32)

he said: i am not such that i should make obeisance to a mortal whom thou hast created of the essence of black mud fashioned in shape (Quran 15:33)

he said: then get out of it, for surely you are driven away: (Quran 15:34)

and surely on you is curse until the day of judgment (Quran 15:35)

 

Allah wanted Lucifer to respect Adam but arrogance and jealousy did not let him. When Lucifer failed the test he questioned the justice (adal) of Allah. He complained that Allah perverted him !  

(Lucifer) said: 'my lord, for your perverting me, i shall make (matters) in the earth seem most fair to them and i shall pervert all (Quran 15:39)

 

Those who know the truth and they know that Allah and his Rasul appointed Ali as the imam and successor and caliph of Allah on earth, but they reject it knowingly they are like Lucifer and they question the justice of Allah too and they are cursed too.

Imamah and justice are always associating each other. Mahdi will come to spread justice on earth.  

 

By the way religion is a hierarchy you can not be a believer from the middle or from the bottom so as the friends have told you several times you should go further step by step. You can not attack the details while you are still in doubt about more basic and important issues like imamah and adal !

Moreover Shia is not a claim or tag it is to follow Rasulullah and his Ahlul Bait (because Allah and his Rasul wanted this). This is a huge desire if you know. Many Shias may not be true followers but at least this is what they desire.

Edited by maes

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2 hours ago, maes said:

By the way religion is a hierarchy you can not be a believer from the middle or from the bottom so as the friends have told you several times you should go further step by step. You can not attack the details while you are still in doubt about more basic and important issues like imamah and adal !

Marvelous explanation of religion for seekers of the truth.

 

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10 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

The shia faith is more complete than the Sunni faith.

We have usul-e-deen which are the core beliefs:

Taqleed, Adl of Allah, Prophethood, Imamat, Qayamat

Them we have furuh-e-deen:

salat, fasting, hajj, khums, zakat, jihad, encourage the good, forbid the evil, Tamalpais (nearness to Prophet and AhlulBayt), tabarra (distance from enemies of Ahlulbayt).

 

That is what brother @skamran110 and I are saying - without understanding the shia faith or gathering knowledge, you ask some mundane questions.

The core beliefs - spell check changed tawheed to taqleed. Core beliefs:

Tawheed, Adl, etc.

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11 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

The shia faith is more complete than the Sunni faith.

We have usul-e-deen which are the core beliefs:

Taqleed, Adl of Allah, Prophethood, Imamat, Qayamat

Them we have furuh-e-deen:

salat, fasting, hajj, khums, zakat, jihad, encourage the good, forbid the evil, Tamalpais (nearness to Prophet and AhlulBayt), tabarra (distance from enemies of Ahlulbayt).

 

That is what brother @skamran110 and I are saying - without understanding the shia faith or gathering knowledge, you ask some mundane questions.

Though it is a very scholarly and an academic level discussion, we need to discuss it step by step. The points upon which we have agreement are: Tawheed, Prophethood and Qayamah. The rest of the two according to you are: Adal and Imamah.

Let's talk about Adal:
The verses that you have quoted above do not give direct significance of Adal or Imamah. I believe it's an interpretation to comply the verse to Imamah.

Now Imamah:
As you have quoted some verses in the favor of Imamah, did Prophet SAW give any Ahadith or signs of Imamah to be followed after him in a direct way?

Edited by M.A Hayyan

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When we have Skates why we are walking ? When we have Bikes why we are learning horse riding ? When there is enough land  why learning swimming ? When all concerned is related to food then why going for money instead of farming ?

Concept vs Logic , Logic vs Concept

When we are learning like a kid we are putting questions over questions and make everyone irritate , but at the end we are doing same with another generation. This is a process of learning from ages.

At the end we learn " Logical Concept "  OP is in between Concept vs Logic and Logic vs Concept. Treat him kindly or leave him in his Questions .. If he is enthusiastic to know he will get the answer. Don't forget Allah knows how to guide. If we can't teach him someone else will come in his life and will guide. Most important is if he really want to learn ? That he only knows or Allah.

Convincing Azadari , Mutah Marriage , Wearning Black clothes etc is not an easy task for everyone to understand .. So many so called Shias don't even know actual concept behind these things but inherited from there parents without asking why and why not. At least Op shows some guts to ask these questions. This is another thing we copy paste too much material for him so that he either got his eyes weak or backache sitting and reading so many articles from ages.

Give him some video link in his own language so that he can understand in that same langage in which he is contacting with his lord. That is the important thing , a person only learn faster in that language which he used to think.

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1 hour ago, M.A Hayyan said:

Though it is a very scholarly and an academic level discussion, we need to discuss it step by step. The points upon which we have agreement are: Tawheed, Prophethood and Qayamah. The rest of the two according to you are: Adal and Imamah.

Let's talk about Adal:
The verses that you have quoted above do not give direct significance of Adal or Imamah. I believe it's an interpretation to comply the verse to Imamah.

Now Imamah:
As you have quoted some verses in the favor of Imamah, did Prophet SAW give any Ahadith or signs of Imamah to be followed after him in a direct way?

1. Are we in agreement that your 3 initial questions where you promised to become shia upon responses were nothing but ignorance on your part and the real discussion should be about usul and furuh e deen?

2. So we can move past your offense of correlating shias wearing black and hell-dwellers, are you redacting that hadith due to it being false?

3. Adl - I would not have thought that this requires a discussion. Do you believe that Allah is just and that He gives each action by us it's appropriate reward/punishment?

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Salam

Imams in the past were almost all Prophets. 

The verses leading up the Ulil-Amr and after within that Surah (the 4th surah) are of vital importance. They flow together. 

If you can see the way God has linked the belief in Ulil-Amr with his way of guidance in the past, and that belief in them cannot be separate from belief in Messengers, and belief in Messengers cannot be separated from belief in God, because it's linked to God's identity which extends to all things, you would of understood a great part of the Quran as it ought to be understood.

The Quran equates disbelief in Imams with disbelief in God's Ayat, and equates that with disbelief in God.

It's time to reflect over Quran bro. This is just one instance of where they are in Quran.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, alirex said:

Convincing Azadari , Mutah Marriage , Wearning Black clothes etc is not an easy task for everyone to understand .. So many so called Shias don't even know actual concept behind these things but inherited from there parents without asking why and why not. At least Op shows some guts to ask these questions. This is another thing we copy paste too much material for him so that he either got his eyes weak or backache sitting and reading so many articles from ages.

Give him some video link in his own language so that he can understand in that same langage in which he is contacting with his lord. That is the important thing , a person only learn faster in that language which he used to think.

Do you consider that he people who have responded him on 3 pages have just added irrelevant material?

OR the guy writing the OP is just wasting the time to blaim the practices that are not the basic shia beliefs?

Edited by skamran110

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23 hours ago, M.A Hayyan said:

You are way too judgmental bro! I'm here to ask questions which is my right and I was not satisfied with the anwers previously provided... Had there been a good scholar on this forum, he might have understood my situation, So stop judging and start removing the doubts and questions being raised on shia islam... simple!

Brother Hayyan do you know Arabic ?

If you know Arabic you can use this satellite channel or it's website it is trustworthy you can ask them and speak with them they may help you a lot they show books of Muslims and explain :

http://www.alwilayah.tv

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11 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

1. Are we in agreement that your 3 initial questions where you promised to become shia upon responses were nothing but ignorance on your part and the real discussion should be about usul and furuh e deen?

2. So we can move past your offense of correlating shias wearing black and hell-dwellers, are you redacting that hadith due to it being false?

3. Adl - I would not have thought that this requires a discussion. Do you believe that Allah is just and that He gives each action by us it's appropriate reward/punishment?

1) No. I could have discussed them later on, but for me those questions should have been addressed earlier because those questions are the major questions being raised on shia islam wherever you go. Moreover, it is because of those questions, shia fail to attract non muslims to their community (personal view)

2) No. I read somewhere and I put that in my questions, however, I will be more careful about such things.

3) Allah is AADIL but Allah has 98 other names as well, It means we should say that we pick one of the names among those names and make them a pillar of Islam. 

Don't you think all these interpretations after the demise of Prophet SAW created tension and divisions among Muslims?

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8 hours ago, maes said:

Brother Hayyan do you know Arabic ?

If you know Arabic you can use this satellite channel or it's website it is trustworthy you can ask them and speak with them they may help you a lot they show books of Muslims and explain :

http://www.alwilayah.tv

Unfortunately, I don't know Arabic but I am trying learn Arabic on my own. 

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11 hours ago, alirex said:

When we have Skates why we are walking ? When we have Bikes why we are learning horse riding ? When there is enough land  why learning swimming ? When all concerned is related to food then why going for money instead of farming ?

Concept vs Logic , Logic vs Concept

When we are learning like a kid we are putting questions over questions and make everyone irritate , but at the end we are doing same with another generation. This is a process of learning from ages.

At the end we learn " Logical Concept "  OP is in between Concept vs Logic and Logic vs Concept. Treat him kindly or leave him in his Questions .. If he is enthusiastic to know he will get the answer. Don't forget Allah knows how to guide. If we can't teach him someone else will come in his life and will guide. Most important is if he really want to learn ? That he only knows or Allah.

Convincing Azadari , Mutah Marriage , Wearning Black clothes etc is not an easy task for everyone to understand .. So many so called Shias don't even know actual concept behind these things but inherited from there parents without asking why and why not. At least Op shows some guts to ask these questions. This is another thing we copy paste too much material for him so that he either got his eyes weak or backache sitting and reading so many articles from ages.

Give him some video link in his own language so that he can understand in that same langage in which he is contacting with his lord. That is the important thing , a person only learn faster in that language which he used to think.

I am not afraid to ask questions because it's my right to ask the right question from a rightly guided individual, rather from an individual trying to humiliate others upon asking a pinching question. One may have accepted its religion without asking and understanding religion but one cannot learn religion without raising questions on the building blocks of religion. Your concepts and logic come quite later, as they are not the matter of concern right now. In order to gain the proper understanding of religion, one has to put in a lot of concerning questions. And I will not be afraid to ask question about a thing which is leading me astray. I will love to study the basics and ask questions like a kid if it is leading me to a straight path. 

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11 hours ago, skamran110 said:

Do you consider that he people who have responded him on 3 pages have just added irrelevant material?

OR the guy writing the OP is just wasting the time to blaim the practices that are not the basic shia beliefs?

So you think I'm wasting my time here. Strange!

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6 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

I believe the initial questions have been answered sufficiently. Up to OP to accept them or not.

The person can never accept the truth. i know it since my first post:

i have already concluded it earlier as he is unable to respond on a single hadith or verse of quran quoited in last 3 pages.

Wassaalam

Edited by skamran110

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