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In the Name of God بسم الله
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sidnaq

racism towards white people

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Salam , unfortunately racism is still prevalent in every single country whether it is overt or covert , as muslims and as believers we should not have a single bit of racism in our minds and heart because surely it is a great sin and in essence a disease of the heart , the main causes of racism seem to stem from ignorance and nationalism , and are very prevalent in all societies including muslim ones , for example a Pakistani takes too much unnecessary pride just because he is Pakistani , and English people take too much pride in their heritage for no apparent reason and believe that they are the best nation etc , all of this is has no value in islam , Allah we haven't been created too be boastful of our nationalities because lets face it being born as an iranian or as an Arab or as an American has no value and is not even an achievement hence why it absurd when people say I am proud to be born as so and so , because clearly their was no effort on our part , it was all due to Allah swt that we even exist so this self national pride is nonsense , 

Anyway getting back to your question , their are people who are racist to white people from different communities but their are also those who are not , personally I have never ever been a racist and inshallah never will be , I suffer from many diseases but alhumdulilah racism isn't one of them , the bottom line is that racism is taught by external forces and is not genetic or anything of the sort , may Allah swt cure our heart from this heinous disease and have mercy upon our souls in the name of Muhammed and ahle Muhammed , may peace and blessings be with you all

Edited by sharinganMahdi

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It depends on the person, but yes,  invariably muslims do tend be ne quite racist against most other races,  paticularly against black and white people. 

Golf Arabs are also quite racist against people from south asia.

Although the are always good and bad people every, and normally it isn't good to generalise, but when talking about racism I don't think that the generalisation is that unfair

Edited by Ali_Hussain

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"White" Muslims are regarded as perpetual outsiders and certain assumptions are made about them having scandalous pasts.  But it's really minor compared to the overt racism faced by "black" Muslims.  

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5 hours ago, A175 said:

Only because you asked:

As a white person, I'll say that I notice it.

//rant mode on

It's ironic when brown Muslims make jokes about the way white people pronounce things, but then completely [Edited Out]ize the Arabic themselves.

You can't remember to put an "a" in front of "asalamu alaykum" or just lazy it up and say "salaam"... but go on the rants about white people WHO ARE AT LEAST MAKING AN ATTEMPT TO LEARN. Maybe I don't always pronounce Bint Jbeil the way you like it every time, but at least I know how to give a proper greeting... and at least I know the difference between dh and z.

Imagine a kindergarten teacher calling 5 year-olds retarded because they can't to calculus. Not exactly helpful.

Yeah, I get it. It's not like our history is all that great, but don't discriminate against someone and them start crying about Islamophobia and anti-Arab racism. Or even talking trash about other Arab nationalities or Asians. Brown people are different, and so are white people. My heritage is mostly Irish, Romanian, and Native American... please tell me how my ancestors enslaved and crusaded. I am basically a descendant of refugees who have bounced around from continent to continent. We are not all Donald Trump.

And truthfully, I've never seen this much snobbiness until I became a Shia and attempted integrating into the community. Sunnis, male or female, never let a greeting go unanswered. Some of these girls around here paint their faces like Haifa Wahebe and think they're something special. News flash, I don't want your number. I'm just trying to be polite and fit in.

I see it more from the Lebanese people, not so much the Iraqis or Yemenis.

And you know what else is crazy? Some Sunnis literally hate my guts because I left them, but there are far more who will sit and have a decent conversation. I felt more love at a joint Muslim-Jewish Iftar in which I was the only Shia present than I have at most of the "community" events I've attended.

I wish I could say that I'm exaggerating, but I'm not. Being an outsider, a new Shia, and a white guy trying to wedge my way into this family makes both prison and combat seem fun. There have been moments where I've questioned even trying anymore. I could walk into a Sunni mosque, pray with my arms folded, and feel right at home if I ever went back to it... and I would be invited into their homes. 

It's hard enough leaving "that life" and walking a straight and narrow path, but becoming a Shia and moving to an area with a large Arab Shia population wasn't exactly what I had dreamed of.

To sum up, yeah you are but I can take it. That doesn't mean I don't find it dispicable and hypocritical... I have been witness to "white people" rants and then chastised for referring to someone as a hijabi (as a descriptive term, not out of disrespect). I swear, some of these folks revere Imams and members of the Ahl-ul-Bayt that they wouldn't even let become a part of their families because they aren't the right kind of Arab... or even Arab at all. They forget that they were Romans and Africans in the mix.

 

//rant mode off.

 

yes i agree, i agree with this , i too have seen videos of indians arab anybody being like white people do this, that, and videos of youtube, i used to ignore because there are times i say it too, but at times i ask myself are we being too racist, are we discriminating against them the same way, just like you said, we wouldnt like it if we were being discriminated back by somebody, and it is not only white people, people of other ethniticities tend to be racist too, for e.g. a muslim girl with an abaya is discriminated in america, its not just white people black hispanic, arab anybody could discriminate against them and i agree with you, i understand stuff happened in the past but we should not bring it on peoples heads today and discrimiate against them, what about conquerings of other places in the past by other emperors like genghis khan , i am very sorry if racism is happening to you from any of us, and if you dont like it please speak up if you feel racism i am here to support you to stop it, tell them a pakistani said that.but please also forgive me if next time who know i too may use the white people say this or that term, i am too also trying to figure out this whole thing, so im not perfect.

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7 hours ago, A175 said:

Only because you asked:

As a white person, I'll say that I notice it.

//rant mode on

It's ironic when brown Muslims make jokes about the way white people pronounce things, but then completely [Edited Out]ize the Arabic themselves.

You can't remember to put an "a" in front of "asalamu alaykum" or just lazy it up and say "salaam"... but go on the rants about white people WHO ARE AT LEAST MAKING AN ATTEMPT TO LEARN. Maybe I don't always pronounce Bint Jbeil the way you like it every time, but at least I know how to give a proper greeting... and at least I know the difference between dh and z.

Imagine a kindergarten teacher calling 5 year-olds retarded because they can't to calculus. Not exactly helpful.

Yeah, I get it. It's not like our history is all that great, but don't discriminate against someone and them start crying about Islamophobia and anti-Arab racism. Or even talking trash about other Arab nationalities or Asians. Brown people are different, and so are white people. My heritage is mostly Irish, Romanian, and Native American... please tell me how my ancestors enslaved and crusaded. I am basically a descendant of refugees who have bounced around from continent to continent. We are not all Donald Trump.

And truthfully, I've never seen this much snobbiness until I became a Shia and attempted integrating into the community. Sunnis, male or female, never let a greeting go unanswered. Some of these girls around here paint their faces like Haifa Wahebe and think they're something special. News flash, I don't want your number. I'm just trying to be polite and fit in.

I see it more from the Lebanese people, not so much the Iraqis or Yemenis.

And you know what else is crazy? Some Sunnis literally hate my guts because I left them, but there are far more who will sit and have a decent conversation. I felt more love at a joint Muslim-Jewish Iftar in which I was the only Shia present than I have at most of the "community" events I've attended.

I wish I could say that I'm exaggerating, but I'm not. Being an outsider, a new Shia, and a white guy trying to wedge my way into this family makes both prison and combat seem fun. There have been moments where I've questioned even trying anymore. I could walk into a Sunni mosque, pray with my arms folded, and feel right at home if I ever went back to it... and I would be invited into their homes. 

It's hard enough leaving "that life" and walking a straight and narrow path, but becoming a Shia and moving to an area with a large Arab Shia population wasn't exactly what I had dreamed of.

To sum up, yeah you are but I can take it. That doesn't mean I don't find it dispicable and hypocritical... I have been witness to "white people" rants and then chastised for referring to someone as a hijabi (as a descriptive term, not out of disrespect). I swear, some of these folks revere Imams and members of the Ahl-ul-Bayt that they wouldn't even let become a part of their families because they aren't the right kind of Arab... or even Arab at all. They forget that they were Romans and Africans in the mix.

 

//rant mode off.

 

by the way i am very very sorry to hear what you have been thru , that is horrible, i dont want you to face discrimination and i am so sorry you went thru that, no no arab at all is superior than anyone else, and hiabi is a respectful term too i dont find any fault with what you have said, and white people rants are not good if we have given ourselves a luxury to insult someone else freely without thinking about it but as i said im sorry bro i myself am not perfect i dont know myself whether to even allow or enoy white people rants ,whether they matter at all or not, its confusing for me, altho i am sorry and you sghould defend yourself completely and absolutely if you feel judged.

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5 hours ago, sidnaq said:

@Gaius I. Caesar @zainabamy im sorry for tagging youboth, but do you feel you may have something about this? please please share, 

I'll say this succinctly and I am not naming names here but I got somewhat uncomfortable with the some of the jokes a couple of  people here had said about white people here but I haven't experienced racism to the level that A175 did.  However what really irks me is when Arabs, particularly the Lebanese call themselves "brown people", why are you guys using "white man" language to describe yourself? You guys are exactly the same as me and if you want to go into racial specifics with me and play that game , I'd classify you as a white person. Plus, I am not just a white guy, I have Native American in me as well, so don't assume anything about me. Another annoying thing that kind of irks me is this weird fixation from the Indo-Pak group about Sayyid-Sayyid marriages. I swear it is a remnant of the Vedic caste system. There is nothing in the Qur'an or the teachings of the Ahl ul Bayt (as) to suggest this idea, so why do you insist?  

Overall, you guys have been kind of a second family for me and I am grateful for that,  Alhamdulillah.  There's no room in Islam for racism,  they just don't mix at all, there's a lot of work to be done about this.

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Referring to themselves as brown is hilarious, especially considering that they fought so hard to be considered white decades ago.

 

Just an observation-

As a white guy, I don't really buy into the racial pride thing. It's isn't a failure or an accomplishment, it's just the way I came out. And I realize the Black pride and Mexican pride never ruled America, enslaving and murdering white people for the sake of skin color... so even though I don't agree in the racial pride thing, I see the difference. I get the idea that white pride can be racist while brown pride might not be...

But...

If that brown pride is Arab pride, history and current events will reflect that Arabs have no room to criticize white people.

 

Just sayin'

 

 

I'm not anti-Arab. Far from it, I love you all and who knows I might even marry one. I'm just against racism, injustice, and hypocrisy.

 

And listen, it's not like I've been tarred and feathered. I haven't been run out of town or been refused service because I'm white. It's nothing like that at all.

It's just the rhetoric gets so ridiculous sometimes, and there seems to be some sort of innate hyper-defensiveness among Shias that prohibits anything more than minimal interaction with outsiders.

 

 

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33 minutes ago, A175 said:

Referring to themselves as brown is hilarious, especially considering that they fought so hard to be considered white decades ago.

 

Just an observation-

As a white guy, I don't really buy into the racial pride thing. It's isn't a failure or an accomplishment, it's just the way I came out. And I realize the Black pride and Mexican pride never ruled America, enslaving and murdering white people for the sake of skin color... so even though I don't agree in the racial pride thing, I see the difference. I get the idea that white pride can be racist while brown pride might not be...

But...

If that brown pride is Arab pride, history and current events will reflect that Arabs have no room to criticize white people.

 

Just sayin'

 

 

I'm not anti-Arab. Far from it, I love you all and who knows I might even marry one. I'm just against racism, injustice, and hypocrisy.

 

And listen, it's not like I've been tarred and feathered. I haven't been run out of town or been refused service because I'm white. It's nothing like that at all.

It's just the rhetoric gets so ridiculous sometimes, and there seems to be some sort of innate hyper-defensiveness among Shias that prohibits anything more than minimal interaction with outsiders.

 

 

^Exactly,  my thoughts as well. 

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7 hours ago, notme said:

"White" Muslims are regarded as perpetual outsiders and certain assumptions are made about them having scandalous pasts.  But it's really minor compared to the overt racism faced by "black" Muslims.  

Last I heard, black Muslim minorities in the UK are extremely racist towards white people, especially Somalis who have a disproportionate crime rate (can't confirm)

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5 minutes ago, Saintly_Jinn23 said:

Last I heard, black Muslim minorities in the UK are extremely racist towards white people, especially Somalis who have a disproportionate crime rate (can't confirm)

I'm in the US. I haven't observed black or white Muslims here to be racist (though maybe they are just as bad and I've just not seen it). But I have seen racism among Arabs and South Asians that I've known. Wherever it is, it's rooted in ignorance and the solution is knowledge. If community leaders tried to bring people from various ethnic backgrounds together, racism wouldn't be able to last long.

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4 hours ago, sidnaq said:

by the way i am very very sorry to hear what you have been thru , that is horrible, i dont want you to face discrimination and i am so sorry you went thru that, no no arab at all is superior than anyone else, and hiabi is a respectful term too i dont find any fault with what you have said, and white people rants are not good if we have given ourselves a luxury to insult someone else freely without thinking about it but as i said im sorry bro i myself am not perfect i dont know myself whether to even allow or enoy white people rants ,whether they matter at all or not, its confusing for me, altho i am sorry and you sghould defend yourself completely and absolutely if you feel judged.

 Just a thought: If you can't handle some of the things that white people say about Arabs and South Asians, then how can you tolerate the white people rants? Muhammad (saws) himself said that no Arab is superior to a non-Arab. In Islam,  all are equal before Allah (swt) and we are brothers and sisters in faith.  The matter from my perspective is quite clear and simple, if one takes Islam as his deen, then that person should never tolerate or enjoy  racism in any form. I know that I am not perfect either. The  rants might seem harmless fun but to the "outsiders" , it could give  them wrong-headed ideas and skewed perception about Islam and Muslims in general,  all because the "brown people" were racist and ranting about how  whites, black and Hispanics are ignorant and entitled. There's really no confusion, racism is racism and not tolerated in Islam. 

Sorry if my tone seems severe and I am not trying to chastise you,  I am just trying to share more of my thoughts with you @sidnaq

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50 minutes ago, notme said:

I'm in the US. I haven't observed black or white Muslims here to be racist (though maybe they are just as bad and I've just not seen it). But I have seen racism among Arabs and South Asians that I've known. Wherever it is, it's rooted in ignorance and the solution is knowledge. If community leaders tried to bring people from various ethnic backgrounds together, racism wouldn't be able to last long.

To be fair, black people who are Muslim don't tend to be racist - not Somalis, but they are fringe 'black'

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1 hour ago, notme said:

I'm in the US. I haven't observed black or white Muslims here to be racist (though maybe they are just as bad and I've just not seen it). But I have seen racism among Arabs and South Asians that I've known. Wherever it is, it's rooted in ignorance and the solution is knowledge. If community leaders tried to bring people from various ethnic backgrounds together, racism wouldn't be able to last long.

I have to kind of disagree with this. Bringing various races and ethnic group together can just as easily be a problem more than it is a solution. There are many reasons why.

1. If there is a group that is disproportionate in its membership or affluence, the other less affluent or less numerous group can never have an very equitable say in the affairs of the community and have its future mostly dictated by that dominant group.

2. Often times, because different ethnic groups possess different individual interpretations or applications of Islam which may clash with others or to which the individuals of those respective groups are just attached to most, unless one folk Islam comes to naturally dominate them all, the only way to bring them all together is to impose a very bland, culture-less Islam that is simply a small set of rules and practices and which removes all the folk elements that give the Islamic religious tapestry all its color. Wahhabism has done a tremendous job at uniting Muslims of different races and nationalities, but at what cost?

3. There's a lot of talk about the creation of a Western Islam that is authentically Western and authentically Islamic these days, but I wonder to what extent this is at all possible if the average black, white or Hispanic Muslim convert who is not some guy propped up by Saudi backed dawah organizations or an apologist for the Iranian government who's married to an Iranian woman are not involved in these kinds of discussions or not equipped to participate.

 

I think Europe suffers a much bigger problem of actual racism between non-white Muslim minorities and non-Muslim whites. This is due to a more explicitly racist and extreme right-wing and a very "straight, white Christian capitalist people are responsible for everything bad for brown people" kind of left-wing both of which have only a comparatively moderate (though growing) representation here so far. Both of these feed the hostility both groups have so that you have white Americans buying up more guns for an impending Muslim invasion to impose shariah law or young Pakistani hooligans in the UK assaulting white girls.  I think both Europe and America suffer from racism going both ways. However, even among communities that don't have racism, Western converts still suffer a lot of alienation I think from people of their own race and cultural background considering them traitors or just fetishists for Islamic cultures and migrant Muslim communities taking a  very condescending attitude toward them that all the converts can do is just sit and receive whatever kind of Islam they have and can't create anything on their own or be allowed to do so (not without violating the Islamic principles anyway).

Edited by Saintly_Jinn23

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1 hour ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

 Just a thought: If you can't handle some of the things that white people say about Arabs and South Asians, then how can you tolerate the white people rants? Muhammad (saws) himself said that no Arab is superior to a non-Arab. In Islam,  all are equal before Allah (swt) and we are brothers and sisters in faith.  The matter from my perspective is quite clear and simple, if one takes Islam as his deen, then that person should never tolerate or enjoy  racism in any form. I know that I am not perfect either. The  rants might seem harmless fun but to the "outsiders" , it could give  them wrong-headed ideas and skewed perception about Islam and Muslims in general,  all because the "brown people" were racist and ranting about how  whites, black and Hispanics are ignorant and entitled. There's really no confusion, racism is racism and not tolerated in Islam. 

Sorry if my tone seems severe and I am not trying to chastise you,  I am just trying to share more of my thoughts with you @sidnaq

 

oh no not at all, your tone seems fine i am glad you shared your point, by the way i meant people of other races should not indulge in a luxury or privelege of making fun of others for e.g. making fun of white people because we can and nobody will say anything otherwise if such situations and jokes go too far to insult white people.you kow the funny part is i remember what a big deal it was to say the n word, now people who arent even black say it to each other as a form of amusement and comraderie.

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1 hour ago, Saintly_Jinn23 said:

I have to kind of disagree with this. Bringing various races and ethnic group together can just as easily be a problem more than it is a solution. There are many reasons why.

1. If there is a group that is disproportionate in its membership or affluence, the other less affluent or less numerous group can never have an very equitable say in the affairs of the community and have its future mostly dictated by that dominant group.

2. Often times, because different ethnic groups possess different individual interpretations or applications of Islam which may clash with others or to which the individuals of those respective groups are just attached to most, unless one folk Islam comes to naturally dominate them all, the only way to bring them all together is to impose a very bland, culture-less Islam that is simply a small set of rules and practices and which removes all the folk elements that give the Islamic religious tapestry all its color. Wahhabism has done a tremendous job at uniting Muslims of different races and nationalities, but at what cost?

3. There's a lot of talk about the creation of a Western Islam that is authentically Western and authentically Islamic these days, but I wonder to what extent this is at all possible if the average black, white or Hispanic Muslim convert who is not some guy propped up by Saudi backed dawah organizations or an apologist for the Iranian government who's married to an Iranian woman are not involved in these kinds of discussions or not equipped to participate.

 

I think Europe suffers a much bigger problem of actual racism between non-white Muslim minorities and non-Muslim whites. This is due to a more explicitly racist and extreme right-wing and a very "straight, white Christian capitalist people are responsible for everything bad for brown people" kind of left-wing both of which have only a comparatively moderate (though growing) representation here so far. Both of these feed the hostility both groups have so that you have white Americans buying up more guns for an impending Muslim invasion to impose shariah law or young Pakistani hooligans in the UK assaulting white girls.  I think both Europe and America suffer from racism going both ways. However, even among communities that don't have racism, Western converts still suffer a lot of alienation I think from people of their own race and cultural background considering them traitors or just fetishists for Islamic cultures and migrant Muslim communities taking a  very condescending attitude toward them that all the converts can do is just sit and receive whatever kind of Islam they have and can't create anything on their own or be allowed to do so (not without violating the Islamic principles anyway).

Mashallah... you put that so well.

It's like the saying "beggars can't be choosers". Nobody can blame the Salafis for their amazing dawa. They'll take you as you are regardless of your color or history. I just don't feel that here... so at a certain point I'm just happy to take what I can get.

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1 hour ago, A175 said:

Mashallah... you put that so well.

It's like the saying "beggars can't be choosers". Nobody can blame the Salafis for their amazing dawa. They'll take you as you are regardless of your color or history. I just don't feel that here... so at a certain point I'm just happy to take what I can get.

Thanks.

Btw, I'm not saying at all that marrying into the migrant communities is a bad thing or that we should separate from them. But I believe that those of us Muslims who are white, black, latino, asian, etc. who are converts should be allowed to stick together in such a way that provides us with a sense of solidarity and a sense of independence which also allows us to have a much bigger say in the future of Islam in our own home countries.

Shouldn't the course of Islam in a particular country where it is being introduced be lead in a good and equitable portion by those who were born here and whose ancestors are mostly from here and not only those Algerians, Moroccans, Pakistanis, Arabs, Iranians etc. whose connections to the land and people of the countries only go back so far? Of course those communities deserve to have a say as well if they actually want to contribute to an American/European Islamic cultural framework. I don't see anything wrong with an American Islam being just a little Persianized because I myself like Persian Islamic culture and identify with it naturally as a Shi'a Muslim, but of course of the Western converts probably should be helping more in a process of Islamicizing elements of Western civilization and in the picking and choosing of what elements from traditional Islamic civilizations are best for the Islam that is to take shape in the West.

The two obstacles of course are that converts themselves are not very organized into tight-knit communities like the migrants are (part of this may be due to the breakdown of the family in Western countries that doesn't necessarily affect the new migrants) and another issue is that Islam is not simply coming into a foreign land here in the West but also coming into a more thoroughly modernized culture that is in conflict with not just Islam but also it's own traditional Christian and pagan past, which can create a greater sense of alienation in Western converts that one would not necessarily see in a more traditional land where the convert to Islam has a much firmer grasp of his own pre-Islamic heritage and can thus create a much more balanced admixture of the new and old.

Edited by Saintly_Jinn23

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3 hours ago, Saintly_Jinn23 said:

I have to kind of disagree with this. Bringing various races and ethnic group together can just as easily be a problem more than it is a solution. 

I don't mean marry the various ethnic communities together as one. I simply meant provide opportunities for them to interact, for example invitations to events. It's not possible to remain racist once you realize that "they" are the same as "us".

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2 hours ago, A175 said:

Mashallah... you put that so well.

It's like the saying "beggars can't be choosers". Nobody can blame the Salafis for their amazing dawa. They'll take you as you are regardless of your color or history. I just don't feel that here... so at a certain point I'm just happy to take what I can get.

 

brother or sister, no please, we are all one unity, i have had shia friends who were lebanese and iranian , indian, even a nigerian shia i am telling you no one is supposed to discriinate against, look at all of us here, of ifferent races yet still brothers and sisters, please whoever is treating you wrong is not right, i wish you could visit the jaffari islamic centre in vaughan in canada ,its like i see arabs, indians pakistanis, working together in harmony, nobody should treat you different i would be proud to call you my musli brother or sister, without concern torace,

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I'm not really about segregation... I mean that's sort of what I see as the problem, really. The people in the community here already have established roots, friends, and family. It's just trying to be part of that community that's the issue.

It's funny... I get the "mashallah your story is such an inspiration", but it's not like they want to hang out. I'm trying to include myself, but subhanallah the effort it takes is just crazy. 

It's not just the discrimination, either. One of the greatest disappointments this year has been the lack of any nightly community iftar events among the Shia. They say "well, there's just so many of us it wouldn't be possible". Really??? Is that why Sunnis manage to do it every night? Because it isn't possible?

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18 hours ago, A175 said:

Only because you asked:

As a white person, I'll say that I notice it.

//rant mode on

It's ironic when brown Muslims make jokes about the way white people pronounce things, but then completely [Edited Out]ize the Arabic themselves.

You can't remember to put an "a" in front of "asalamu alaykum" or just lazy it up and say "salaam"... but go on the rants about white people WHO ARE AT LEAST MAKING AN ATTEMPT TO LEARN. Maybe I don't always pronounce Bint Jbeil the way you like it every time, but at least I know how to give a proper greeting... and at least I know the difference between dh and z.

Imagine a kindergarten teacher calling 5 year-olds retarded because they can't to calculus. Not exactly helpful.

Yeah, I get it. It's not like our history is all that great, but don't discriminate against someone and them start crying about Islamophobia and anti-Arab racism. Or even talking trash about other Arab nationalities or Asians. Brown people are different, and so are white people. My heritage is mostly Irish, Romanian, and Native American... please tell me how my ancestors enslaved and crusaded. I am basically a descendant of refugees who have bounced around from continent to continent. We are not all Donald Trump.

And truthfully, I've never seen this much snobbiness until I became a Shia and attempted integrating into the community. Sunnis, male or female, never let a greeting go unanswered. Some of these girls around here paint their faces like Haifa Wahebe and think they're something special. News flash, I don't want your number. I'm just trying to be polite and fit in.

I see it more from the Lebanese people, not so much the Iraqis or Yemenis.

And you know what else is crazy? Some Sunnis literally hate my guts because I left them, but there are far more who will sit and have a decent conversation. I felt more love at a joint Muslim-Jewish Iftar in which I was the only Shia present than I have at most of the "community" events I've attended.

I wish I could say that I'm exaggerating, but I'm not. Being an outsider, a new Shia, and a white guy trying to wedge my way into this family makes both prison and combat seem fun. There have been moments where I've questioned even trying anymore. I could walk into a Sunni mosque, pray with my arms folded, and feel right at home if I ever went back to it... and I would be invited into their homes. 

It's hard enough leaving "that life" and walking a straight and narrow path, but becoming a Shia and moving to an area with a large Arab Shia population wasn't exactly what I had dreamed of.

To sum up, yeah you are but I can take it. That doesn't mean I don't find it dispicable and hypocritical... I have been witness to "white people" rants and then chastised for referring to someone as a hijabi (as a descriptive term, not out of disrespect). I swear, some of these folks revere Imams and members of the Ahl-ul-Bayt that they wouldn't even let become a part of their families because they aren't the right kind of Arab... or even Arab at all. They forget that they were Romans and Africans in the mix.

 

//rant mode off.

Yes I agree with this 100%, in the beginning when I was first reverting I rushed things, I wore hijab straight away which was a mistake because I wasn't ready and didn't understand the meaning behind it and ultimately I ended up taking it off. But it meant that people could see I was Muslim. My son's father is Afghani and Shia although he pretty much abandoned his faith by the time I met him, I was in school at that time and there were a lot of Shia Muslims (And Sunnis) and I was trying to be friends with them so they could help me learn and so I had some Muslim friends because that's what I want, I want to be part of this. I'm Aussie, my mother is American but has lived in Australia since she was 8 years old. I'm white, I'm new to Islam, I don't know everything yet and probably never will know everything. But when I would try to ask these Shia girls (One was Iranian or as she said 'Persian' and one was Afghani) they would turn their noses up at me, they'd ask me questions about Shia Islam and Islam in general and when I didn't know the answers they would laugh at me and just generally be mean to me, they would tell me I couldn't be a Muslim because I'm a teenage mother, had a child out of marriage which yes I've committed many sins in my life, terrible ones, but that's not for them to judge, it doesn't make me less of a Muslim and me being Australian doesn't make me less of a Muslim. So when I ask for help to educate myself further then how can they just ignore that and make fun of me and ridicule me? And how could I take their 'advice' seriously when they were both hypocrites (I was in a haram relationship with the father of my son, these girls had secret boyfriends yet at school where not many people knew about their secret relationships they'd bully me and make up lies about me constantly) That and a few other experiences similar just turned me off, I gave up, I thought I don't want to be part of this. However I have met Sunni Muslims and for the most part they were welcoming, they answered my questions, they let me know politely when I was doing something wrong. I have experienced a lot of hatred from Shia Muslims and I don't know if it's just because I'm white. I seriously thought it was just me that had experienced this kind of thing but I'm almost glad to hear it isn't something wrong with me it goes deeper than that. I'm sorry you've dealt with similar experiences. 

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On 6/17/2016 at 6:55 PM, A175 said:

I'm not really about segregation... I mean that's sort of what I see as the problem, really. The people in the community here already have established roots, friends, and family. It's just trying to be part of that community that's the issue

I think the convert community just needs to organize itself a little better. This way, convert Muslims can feel like they are part of a bonafide Muslim community, but also not feel like they're dependent on the migrant communities too much and also interact and cooperate with these migrant communities with more confidence instead of being self-conscious. I think most of us, even when we share so much in the way of belief with other Muslims of non-white or migrant background, do always still have this sense that somehow we're "different" which is probably why a lot of white or black convert Muslims still spend a lot of time with their non-Muslim friends and family of similar racial or cultural background. It just feels a little less awkward.

22 hours ago, Ruq said:

Racism is the stupidest ism. Thats not just my opinion, studies have shown that diverse parental genes leads to smarter offspring. So racist people breed stupider people.

diverse parental genes=/=diverse racial makeup

The article is pointing out the obvious that everyone already knew, that you're less likely to come out stupid if your mother and father aren't brother/sister

Edited by Saintly_Jinn23

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53 minutes ago, Saintly_Jinn23 said:

diverse parental genes=/=diverse racial makeup

The article is pointing out the obvious that everyone already knew, that you're less likely to come out stupid if your mother and father aren't brother/sister

 

You didnt read it then? Researchers found the more distantly related an individual’s parents were the taller they tended to be, the higher they scored on cognitive tests and the better their levels of educational attainment.

It isnt just about having parents who arent part of the same close family. The level of diversity in your ancestral history predicts a more advanced outcome.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Ruq said:

 

You didnt read it then? Researchers found the more distantly related an individual’s parents were the taller they tended to be, the higher they scored on cognitive tests and the better their levels of educational attainment.

It isnt just about having parents who arent part of the same close family. The level of diversity in your ancestral history predicts a more advanced outcome.

 

 

 

I don't think you read the article very well. Nothing in the article first of all says anything about subjects with greater racial diversity necessarily marking higher. Again you are confusing two things that aren't necessarily related.

The study was of 350,000 individuals from 100 communities across four continents and concerns only whether parents were more distantly related or not. But this says nothing about the race of the parents as a mixed race child may still have much less diverse gene pool than a non-mixed race child depending on the genetic history of their parents. Also, the article does not state that the racially mixed individuals necessarily scored higher due to more diverse genetics or even if there were any mixed race individuals in the study itself. The focus of the study was the effects of INBREEDING within those communities it studied.

The flaw in your thinking is you are thinking racial diversity equates to genetic diversity and because genetic diversity increases chances of high intelligence, therefore so does racial diversity. But this logic is flawed because:

a.) racially mixed people are not necessarily more genetically diverse with respect to the parents of individual children, especially if one or both parents are different races yet each more thoroughly inbred or different races yet first or second cousins or even brother and sister.

b.) genetic disorders that plague one race more often or one particular bloodline within a particular race may become more problematic upon mixture with the individual genetic characteristics of an individual of another race, this could easily have an impact on any study of mixed children that may suggest they are somehow inferior or superior to non-mixed peoples as the failure or success of these individuals may be due to more individual genetic factors which may or may not impact children of the same race or who do not possess those special anomalies.

c.) racial similarity does not necessarily imply genetic homogeneity as you'll find for example, that some groups of blacks or whites are in fact as distantly related to other groups of whites or blacks as they are to Chinese people, their race only implying some common ancestry at best and the recurrence of a particular set of dominant genes. The notion that common race implies greater genetic homogeneity has been dispelled for years and is nothing more than a holdover of bad 19th & 20th century racial science.

Edited by Saintly_Jinn23

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@Saintly_Jinn23 Where is the 'distance' in the ancestry coming from if not from race? it surely stands to reason that people whose races came from the same small group of ancestors are going to have more in common genetically than people who branched off racially from another group. That doesnt mean that someone with a Jamaican mother and a Dutch father is going to be more diverse than someone whose parents both appear to be racially close, but thats because someones racial diversity (or lack of it) isnt always apparent in their physical appearance or known family history.

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5 hours ago, Ruq said:

@Saintly_Jinn23 Where is the 'distance' in the ancestry coming from if not from race?

The subject of the study was only with respect to how closely the parents were related within particular communities, if you read the source given by the guardian, one subject of study were the Amish and Hutterite communities, communities well known for not just racial uniformity but also for inbreeding. The subject of the study was inbreeding not racial compatibility or the performance of those who are mixed with those who are not.

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On Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 0:06 AM, sidnaq said:

are we being racist towards white people.

Yes and no. Growing up in a  'white' area was fine. Great community,  friends of different backgrounds.  We had someone bring their coworkers to iftar and we were told their race ahead of time,  which was weird.  There was no need.  None of us had an issue and they were really nice. 

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1 hour ago, ali mohsen said:

I think the racism against black and Indian. there is so much rasicm 

Well not really,  because Indians and Pakistanis make up a sizeable chunk of the umma (especially if you want to throw Bangladesh in there) so whatever racism they experience will still be minimal.

But given that they make up such a large chunk of the umma, and they tend to be quite racist toward white people, obviously whiten people experience more racism than Indians. 

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3 hours ago, ali mohsen said:

I think the racism against black and Indian. there is so much rasicm 

Gender may play a role. I find same gender racism to be an issue.  The brothers are nice and polite when I ask questions or need help with something.  Sisters don't really answer or pretend they can't speak English (super rude BTW ).

I think we're worse to people of African decent than European. 

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