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BREAKING: MASS SHOOTING IN ORLANDO GAY NIGHTLUB

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18 minutes ago, rkazmi33 said:

I agree with your post but why did you mention race-neutral? What's wrong with being race-neutral and how is that against Islam? 

Forcing races to mix is as bad as forcing them apart. Many on the modern left think that the solution to end racism is to promote so much race mixing that there exist practically no more individual races and everyone is just one bland race with nothing special about them, as opposed to people of different races learning to live with one another and cherish one another's differences.

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23 minutes ago, The Batman said:

According to the Grand Ayotallahs, any homosexual activity, ranging from kissing to touching, is haram.

To elaborate, this is mostly if said touching or kissing approaches eroticism. In many countries, including some Islamic parts of the world, men kiss and/or embrace as a form of a greeting.

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48 minutes ago, Saintly_Jinn23 said:

To elaborate, this is mostly if said touching or kissing approaches eroticism. In many countries, including some Islamic parts of the world, men kiss and/or embrace as a form of a greeting.

Of course.

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5 hours ago, Miss Wonderful said:

The Boxer Muhammad Ali, his name was everywhere when he passed away, and I bet you it made people interested in Islam  because he is considered a hero. Then this happens......just wow ....wow......u cant go a week with praising a Muslim on social media, when  some %#%##$#  in Orlando's sole mission is to give Islam a bad name. Honestly its the work of Dajjal's army no doubt about it. 

lol exactly. somewhere around social media, in some food group a post was tagged #Ali # The greatest

 and i was twisting my head around thinking they can't be meaning imam ali, they dont know about him lol 

I guess them hearing erase to Muhammad Ali gave them some fits so they had to do something, else Trump won't win XD 

 

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There was a second attempted terrorist attack. He was planning to shoot the LA gay pride parade. 

(Off topic Frodo: lookalike) 

13450033_1124522654255575_2011504135243978156_n.jpg

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2 hours ago, Saintly_Jinn23 said:

Forcing races to mix is as bad as forcing them apart. Many on the modern left think that the solution to end racism is to promote so much race mixing that there exist practically no more individual races and everyone is just one bland race with nothing special about them, as opposed to people of different races learning to live with one another and cherish one another's differences.

Last time I checked, no one was forcing anyone to get married. And since everyone pays their taxes, they have the right to go to the public school, attend  the local state college, ride buses, use the library, and do about a million other things together. People live where they want to live now. They couldn't 50 years ago when there was red-lining. That's gone, good riddance. Can you tell me where in my copy of the Quran it says where the races should stay apart because mixed race  folks would be " bland"? I can't find it.  Lol. I wonder how many folks on this forum would have romped and stomped if I had said in earnest that I wanted SG to stay away from my daughter because he was an Arab? Oh my goodness ... I can hear the accusations now. ( Personally, though, if anyone feels that way they can hie themselves back to wherever their ancestors came from far as I am concerned. My grandkids will need the space...the "pure" ones and the "mixed "ones...and pretty sure they will not be bland, they will be  cultured and spicy as all get out.) 

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4 hours ago, Saintly_Jinn23 said:

Honestly, we shouldn't make too many enemies on the right. Many of the right-wing, at least in America, are conservative Christians who share far more in common with us than the left-wing University feminists who pretend they care about our faith when they just want to infiltrate it and make it more "progressive" by their standards. Many of them could be swayed to relax their opinions on us if we reached out to them in a more meaningful way.

But right now, I can just imagine the right-wingers on the internet like 4chan, the MSNBC comment section, youtube, etc. mocking the so-called progressive left over the fact that it was a Muslim that shot up all these gay people with things like "I wonder how the multicultural Mudslime loving social justice warriors will defend Pisslam now when they're killing fags".

One reason the right-wing dislikes us is that they often see us as tools of the modern progressive left-wing and I can't help but think that we have indeed allowed ourselves to become pets of the Left rather than building better relationships with the more conservative and traditional elements of Western society by emphasizing our shared Abrahamic values. At least the right tend to hate us openly so we know what they're all about, the Lefties often pretend they're our friends but ultimately want to destroy our religion from within and make us all happy, race neutral, transgender gay Marxist Muslims and if they can't do that, they'll make us atheists for whom Muslim is just an ideological or racial thing like how for the Jews today, being Jew is more about race and supporting Israel than following Orthodox, non-gay friendly Judaism.

Sure, if you just explain yourselves better to the Right-Wing Fundamentalist  Christians who think you are " evil pagan Muzzies" come to proclaim Sharia Law on a land they consider theirs, they will be nicer to you. Let me know how that works out for you. 

In the meantime, sitting here amongst my anti-Zionist Jewish friends and other" left-wingers " ( even feminists!) who argued for Muslim women to wear their headscarves  as they pleaed whilst the right-wing fundie set thought they just made easier targets that way, I find it difficult to believe that someone would consider themself a " pet" because other people want to be their ally and friend. Perhaps the LGBTQI community is smarter than the Islamic one. They like having help.  But probably not...I do not see this attitude much in meatspace with Muslims. They seem happy with the " Lefties" around here, they know who is really gunning for them. Nobody wants to infiltrate or change the Muslims. Who has time for that? That change would have to come from within and that is your problem.  No one is forcing your kids off to boarding schools to take their religion away. But everyone is free to live in their own Private Idaho, I guess.

 

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3 hours ago, The Batman said:

According to the Grand Ayotallahs, any homosexual activity, ranging from kissing to touching, is haram. I never argued that they are punishable by death, I just said they're haram. So what's the problem?

You said we should leave gays alone. I say no, we are commanded to guide sinners. Amr bil Ma'roof and Nahi an al-Munkar are from our Furu.

The problem is that we are discussing the act of homosexuality done in public that warrants death penalty under the edicts of a Ma'sum, we are not interested in discussing other gay activities.  

We need to follow the example of our Prophet (S) and Imam Ali (as).  When someone came to him to confess adultery he would tell him or her to go away.  When someone came to the Prophet (S) to complain about an act of adultery taking place, the Prophet (S) asked Imam Ali (as) to verify if it was true, and when Imam Ali went to place were there was adultery occurring he went there blindfolded only so he could report back to the Prophet (S) that he didn't see anything.  

It seems like we just need to mind outer own business and let those gay people do what they want in their own homes.  We should just work on refining our own character.  

There is a reason why it said when the Imam would appear he would rule in a way that the majority of the "learned" scholars of religion would find disagreeable.  

Edited by eThErEaL

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5 hours ago, It's me hello said:

Even though the Islamic community looks bad, does it have to become worse? Nowadays, I feel scared going outside. I'm becoming hesitant to share my religious beliefs with anyone.

Do not be afraid because you believe in Allah-swt alone ... anymore that you should be afraid to behave yourself. This is what Ramadhan is about: Sura 2:183 to learn and rehearse Self-Restraint.

4 hours ago, Saintly_Jinn23 said:

The point I'm getting at is that we should more or less stay out of Western political affairs but build relationships based on shared religious values primarily. This would probably improve our relationship with the right just well enough that we can stay out of the battle between them and the left and not be seen as a subversive element or be used as tools by either side.

Disagree Bro --Yeah l know that is unusual between the two of us. But if we "stay out of Western political affair" then we become more isolated and more vulnerable.

Note: Late Sunday night I saw the interview of Mateen's ex-wife. She is really 'strung-out'. She described his bipolarism, his beating her, and so forth.

Personally, what l find so sickening is the inept US media. Making wild 'explanations', getting Muslim hater Rep. King (of NY) to ramble-on on TV, and broadcasting "unconfirmed reports".

Then at 0400EDT Monday, NBC is running a "Special Report" with this blood red avatar with white lettering reading "TERROR  in Orlando".

The media is as much our nemesis as is Clinton with her cell-phone-approved drone murders that target "militants", where since 2002, "militant" is any Arab or Afghan male 14 years of age and older. [Kinda reminds you of Firaun murdering the infants of lsrael does it not?]

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As a conservative Protestant Christian, I agree with conservative Muslims that homosexual acts are against God and a great sin but this is disgusting:

http://thoughtcatalog.com/jacob-geers/2016/06/here-are-all-the-people-applauding-the-orlando-gay-club-shooter/

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9 minutes ago, ChristianVisitor said:

As a conservative Protestant Christian, I agree with conservative Muslims that homosexual acts are against God and a great sin but this is disgusting:

http://thoughtcatalog.com/jacob-geers/2016/06/here-are-all-the-people-applauding-the-orlando-gay-club-shooter/

That is disgusting.  

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1 hour ago, ChristianVisitor said:

As a conservative Protestant Christian, I agree with conservative Muslims that homosexual acts are against God and a great sin but this is disgusting:

http://thoughtcatalog.com/jacob-geers/2016/06/here-are-all-the-people-applauding-the-orlando-gay-club-shooter/

I do not see where killing people so they can no longer repent can be so laughable to some mentalities.

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8 hours ago, Saintly_Jinn23 said:

Honestly, we shouldn't make too many enemies on the right. Many of the right-wing, at least in America, are conservative Christians who share far more in common with us than the left-wing University feminists who pretend they care about our faith when they just want to infiltrate it and make it more "progressive" by their standards. Many of them could be swayed to relax their opinions on us if we reached out to them in a more meaningful way.

But right now, I can just imagine the right-wingers on the internet like 4chan, the MSNBC comment section, youtube, etc. mocking the so-called progressive left over the fact that it was a Muslim that shot up all these gay people with things like "I wonder how the multicultural Mudslime loving social justice warriors will defend Pisslam now when they're killing fags".

One reason the right-wing dislikes us is that they often see us as tools of the modern progressive left-wing and I can't help but think that we have indeed allowed ourselves to become pets of the Left rather than building better relationships with the more conservative and traditional elements of Western society by emphasizing our shared Abrahamic values. At least the right tend to hate us openly so we know what they're all about, the Lefties often pretend they're our friends but ultimately want to destroy our religion from within and make us all happy, race neutral, transgender gay Marxist Muslims and if they can't do that, they'll make us atheists for whom Muslim is just an ideological or racial thing like how for the Jews today, being Jew is more about race and supporting Israel than following Orthodox, non-gay friendly Judaism.

You make a lot of sense but you got to remember the right wing extremists groups we have in Europe at the moment are absolute trash they are basically hooligans who keep attacking mostly old men and muslim women , muslims have tried engaging in dialogue with these far right European groups but they want non of it , they are of a solid believe that Muhammed (sawa) is a  demon monster and that all brown skin people are filth and every single Muslim is a sexual groomer of young women and literally these people love it when they hear the death of refugees and immigrants and believe that islam isthe plaugu of society and must be stopped , oh the irony ! If only these people knew their own history ! These are the nations of colonising zionists , but instead these fascist groups take pride in what their wretched forefathers had done ! And in Germany , sweden and in some parts of the UK these delinquent  have raised the Nazi flag against Islam ( literally they preach white power whilst holding a Hitler flag , shows how much they really know about history ) they are racist and extremists and we muslims living in Europe are bearing with these demons patiently , truly it is the mercy of Allah swt that he is protecting a lot of Muslims from theses barbaric hooligans 

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2 hours ago, GD41586 said:

What is even more disgusting is the comment section and social justice warriors basically calling for the same types of persecutions against people with morals.

I don't find why the lives of "people with morals" are any better than the lives of those that YOU consider that have no morals.

It is the same. Moreover, with that attitude, you aren't being much different. And you were the one calling for holistic views. Good.

Edited by Bakir

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8 minutes ago, Bakir said:

I don't find why the lives of "people with morals" are any better than the lives of those that YOU consider that have no morals.

It is the same.

As long as a person is not a tyrant then their life is sacred Allah swt only teaches us to confront a tyrant openly otherwise just live and let die , in the end Allah swt is the ultimate judge and is non of our business especially when living in a secular country what an individual does in their private life , I love diversity and unity amongst all people and a big supporter of it  and alhumdulilah amongst the educated environment of the UK their is hardly any islamophobia and a lot of tolerance but the uneducated bigots are the problem in my country with their racist ideals 

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6 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

The problem is that we are discussing the act of homosexuality done in public that warrants death penalty under the edicts of a Ma'sum, we are not interested in discussing other gay activities.  

We need to follow the example of our Prophet (S) and Imam Ali (as).  When someone came to him to confess adultery he would tell him or her to go away.  When someone came to the Prophet (S) to complain about an act of adultery taking place, the Prophet (S) asked Imam Ali (as) to verify if it was true, and when Imam Ali went to place were there was adultery occurring he went there blindfolded only so he could report back to the Prophet (S) that he didn't see anything.  

It seems like we just need to mind outer own business and let those gay people do what they want in their own homes.  We should just work on refining our own character.  

There is a reason why it said when the Imam would appear he would rule in a way that the majority of the "learned" scholars of religion would find disagreeable.  

You seem to be commenting without actually replying to me. Openly gay people need to be guided in Islam, it's simple. If they're doing what they do in private, that's another story.

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1 hour ago, Bakir said:

I don't find why the lives of "people with morals" are any better than the lives of those that YOU consider that have no morals.

It is the same. Moreover, with that attitude, you aren't being much different. And you were the one calling for holistic views. Good.

Lol. People with morals are better than people with no morals.

Is he then who is a believer like him who is a transgressor? They are not equal.

Surat al-Sajdah, 18

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6 hours ago, LeftCoastMom said:

Sure, if you just explain yourselves better to the Right-Wing Fundamentalist  Christians who think you are " evil pagan Muzzies" come to proclaim Sharia Law on a land they consider theirs, they will be nicer to you. Let me know how that works out for you. 

In the meantime, sitting here amongst my anti-Zionist Jewish friends and other" left-wingers " ( even feminists!) who argued for Muslim women to wear their headscarves  as they pleaed whilst the right-wing fundie set thought they just made easier targets that way, I find it difficult to believe that someone would consider themself a " pet" because other people want to be their ally and friend. Perhaps the LGBTQI community is smarter than the Islamic one. They like having help.  But probably not...I do not see this attitude much in meatspace with Muslims. They seem happy with the " Lefties" around here, they know who is really gunning for them. Nobody wants to infiltrate or change the Muslims. Who has time for that? That change would have to come from within and that is your problem.  No one is forcing your kids off to boarding schools to take their religion away. But everyone is free to live in their own Private Idaho, I guess.

 

Lol Christians think we're pagan? Hahaha. What a joke. Christians are wannabe monotheists, let's face it, Christianity is nothing but polytheism. We don't want any alliances, we are not comfortable neither with your political right neither with your political left. 

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8 minutes ago, Tawheed313 said:

Brother, come on, i highly recommend you quickly edit this post.

Which post? The Holy Qur'an tells us believers are not the same as transgressors. We are not meant to treat them the same.

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7 minutes ago, The Batman said:

Which post? The Holy Qur'an tells us believers are not the same as transgressors. We are not meant to treat them the same.

There are various types of christians brother, it is best not to paint them all with the same brush. Additionally, leftcoast is one of those christians who has decided to learn islam from us, to be among us, to be in peace among us. If we start turning away people like her, it may only add to support those not at tolerant as her towards islam or muslims.

It was the post i quoted - your most recent one.

 

Edited by Tawheed313

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2 hours ago, GD41586 said:

I believe I was misunderstood, which could be because I woke up at 5am and made said post while half asleep.

What I am getting at, is that there is a mentality out there that condemns this violent act (and rightfully so) and then goes on to say "We need to get rid of religion/all religious people are idiots and should be killed/anyone that doesn't validate x should be y" and so forth.

That is what I found disgusting, nothing more. I don't believe that anyone's life is inherently "better" or "more valuable" than anyone else's.

It's okay man, no worries.

@The Batman I was writing a reply but man, I know you xD. No need for this. Feel free to deem people better or worse, but that's a very narrow mindset you may end up regretting sticking to (and the longer you think this way, the harder you will find it to get rid of judging people - with years it may become a source of constant pain and marginalization). As for the verse you quoted, I will dedicate some time on it and get back to you (in the sense if this verse calls for a different social behaviour towards those who are deemed worse or having a lower value, and how a human being can identify another one as lower).

Edited by Bakir

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7 minutes ago, Tawheed313 said:

There are various types of christians brother, it is best not to paint them all with the same brush. Additionally, leftcoast is one of those christians who has decided to learn islam from us, to be among us, to be in peace among us. If we start turning away people like her, it may only add to support those not at tolerant as her towards islam or muslims.

It was the post i quoted - your most recent one.

 

I wasn't talking about Christians, there's good and bad Christians. There's even good Atheists. 

I'm talking about the belief system. I criticise beliefs, not persons, my dear bro.

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This has all the hallmarks of a false flag psy-op:-

-Aside from 2 or 3 cell-phone videos from outside, one of which allegedly show an exchange of gunfire between the perp(s) and the police, there's ZERO photo or video evidence of any kind of carnage. In contrast, if a suicide blast is carried out in Pakistan for example, there's a mountain of video clips and photos showing the carnage and blood. Until I see something legitimate like CCTV footage from inside the club, I'm holding off my judgment on who carried this out.

-In one ABC News clip, one of the alleged victims' mother being interviewed is with almost a 100% certainty reading from a teleprompter (run-of-the-mill crisis actor). See the following video at 3:00 minute mark.

-Nobody seems to be asking, as usual, a very important question - Qui bono? (who benefits?)

-As Webster Tarpley has nicely put it before, dead men tell no tales, i.e. the alleged shooter was killed. I've also tried finding the alleged call recording to 911 where the patsy made a call to 911 about swearing allegiance to I-CIA-SIS and open hatred for gays, but to no avail (I'll continue searching). This should be in public data.

At most, it looks like this was a drill which went live. 

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8 minutes ago, Bakir said:

It's okay man, no worries.

@The Batman I was writing a reply but man, I know you xD. No need for this. Feel free to deem people better or worse, but that's a very narrow mindset you may end up regretting sticking to (and the longer you think this way, the harder you will find it to get rid of judging people - with years it may become a source of constant pain and marginalization). As for the verse you quoted, I will dedicate some time on it and get back to you (in the sense if this verse calls for a different social behaviour towards those who are deemed worse or having a lower value, and how a human being can identify another one as lower).

You can start your research but searching up Sayyed Subah Shubbar's (صباح شبر) lectures on الامر بالمعروف.

 

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44 minutes ago, The Batman said:

Lol Christians think we're pagan? Hahaha. What a joke. Christians are wannabe monotheists, let's face it, Christianity is nothing but polytheism. We don't want any alliances, we are not comfortable neither with your political right neither with your political left. 

I'll ignore the theological misunderstandings and clarify the " Christian" stance. It's okay with me if you don't want to hang out with either group on the political spectrum , but I would like to set some things straight.

No, most Christians, especially those on that nasty LEFT, see you as worshipping the same God they do and want religious freedom for you. They are opposed by extreme Christians on the RIGHT, who continually make statements like this. But because they also dislike LGBTQI folks, some Muslims in this forum turn a blind eye to the fact that post -9/11, it has become an article of faith for this demographic to hate Muslims. This is what Trump is tapping into. 

The LEFT ( including the Lefty Christians) were in the streets in the hundreds of thousands protesting the invasion of Iraq and a whole bunch of other things done to the Muslim world by the Bush crew. Some went to jail. But,hey,  let some Muslims ignore that because they have a few things in common with Christians on the RIGHT, who were mostly cheerleading the war and telling us how " unpatriotic" we were and that " the enemy" would see this. We told them that the Iraqis were not our enemies and we certainly hoped they would see the rage against the war. That's just one example. 

But somehow this script has been flipped  by some folks here because well, the right hates gays people like we do. So they must be the peachy keen people. ( Hitler put gays in concentration camps,too. Guess he was a peachy keen person. Yes, I'm being hyperbolic on this post, but hope you get my meaning. You are biting the hand that helps you most of the time.) 

 No one can speak for all Muslims, of course.  The Muslims  from an  Islamic Center  in the region at the vigil last night did a fantastic job of condemning the mass murder hate crime while not apologizing for Islam or Muslims in general and sure wanted people to stand in solidarity with each other, gay and Muslim. They got the biggest round of applause there. ( Afterwards we all got dates...I mean the food...too!)  :grin:

Edited by LeftCoastMom

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40 minutes ago, Tawheed313 said:

There are various types of christians brother, it is best not to paint them all with the same brush. Additionally, leftcoast is one of those christians who has decided to learn islam from us, to be among us, to be in peace among us. If we start turning away people like her, it may only add to support those not at tolerant as her towards islam or muslims.

It was the post i quoted - your most recent one.

 

Lol. Thanks T313, but it's too late for me  decide whether I like you folks or not. The wedding was two weeks ago. :grin:

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8 hours ago, IbnSina said:

The other day 50 people died in Iraq due to terrorism, the other day 50 people died in Syria due to terrorism, the other day 50 people died in Nigeria due to terrorism.

Did you create a thread for these people? Did you discuss the ifs and whys for these people? Will you remember these people? Did they even make the news?

Well, this was supposed to be about how people view us. People dying in Syria and Iraq is never on the news, therefore most people don't care. (I mean Americans/Westerners)

 I wanted to see how this would effect people, I care for the people in Syria in Iraq, BUT since we live here I wanted to start a discussion about how it is going to affect us.

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