BREAKING: MASS SHOOTING IN ORLANDO GAY NIGHTLUB

[It's me hello]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/orlando-fla-ap-gunman-wielding-000000701.html 

 

It looks like these people are just going to make life harder for everyone now? I feel like we are going to be in some deep trouble. (I mean the Islamic community)

[Hasnain Ali1]

Salaams

Most def my brother, however i think this is a false flag op to create more hate and dislike towards muslims, must have been planned and created for an agenda, i could be wrong.

[It's me hello]

(Salaam)

 

Actually I would not be surprised, but either way this will greatly add to the American's resent for Muslims.

[CreepingSharia]

11 minutes ago, Hasnain Ali1 said:

Salaams

Most def my brother, however i think this is a false flag op to create more hate and dislike towards muslims, must have been planned and created for an agenda, i could be wrong.

i need some evidence to be convinced of this. i think it's too early to say this for sure.

[Hasnain Ali1]

i have no proof it is only a thought and speculation. im also going on what i have seen and heard, 911 boston bombing etc. 

[eThErEaL]

14 minutes ago, It's me hello said:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/orlando-fla-ap-gunman-wielding-000000701.html 

 

It looks like these people are just going to make life harder for everyone now? I feel like we are going to be in some deep trouble. (I mean the Islamic community)

You should read the hate comments people have against gays on this forum.  When someone says something hateful towards a gay person, they are in effect saying they wish they would die.  Because they have contempt for their existence.  No one should have contempt for anyone anything because everyone exists through His love.  Yes, you can detest certain behavior, but only so (with the sole intention) that if you personally were to act that way you would be barred from God's presence.  

[It's me hello]

7 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

You should read the hate comments people have against gays on this forum.  When someone says something hateful towards a gay person, they are in effect saying they wish they would die.  Because they have contempt for their existence.  No one should have contempt for anyone anything because everyone exists through His love.  Yes, you can detest certain behavior, but only so (with the sole intention) that if you personally were to act that way you would be barred from God's presence.  

 

I do not with for these people to die, though the people who do should be careful what they wish for. However, I wish for these people to change their mindsets, and be like how people are supposed to be.

[eThErEaL]

22 minutes ago, It's me hello said:

 

I do not with for these people to die, though the people who do should be careful what they wish for. However, I wish for these people to change their mindsets, and be like how people are supposed to be.

The only change we should expect is from our own souls.  Because everything is already perfect, any imperfection we see is because of a spiritual myopia we have from within ourselves.

[Saintly_Jinn23]

33 minutes ago, Hasnain Ali1 said:

Salaams

Most def my brother, however i think this is a false flag op to create more hate and dislike towards muslims, must have been planned and created for an agenda, i could be wrong.

Nah, it's just more Nasibis being Nasibi.

 

24 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

You should read the hate comments people have against gays on this forum.  When someone says something hateful towards a gay person, they are in effect saying they wish they would die.  Because they have contempt for their existence.  No one should have contempt for anyone anything because everyone exists through His love.  Yes, you can detest certain behavior, but only so (with the sole intention) that if you personally were to act that way you would be barred from God's presence.  

I agree that people take the traditional penalties for homosexuality as an excuse to say all sorts of unnecessary and hateful things on this site, but that doesn't change the fact that traditionally Islam and the school of Ahlul Bayt condemn homosexuality in the strictest terms and consider a punishment worthy of death, just as the Bible does. What room there is to negotiate the death penalty is something that needs to be discussed, however, especially in the absence of an infallible Imam (as)

While this shooter was clearly in the wrong for trying to assume he has the right to punish non-Muslims in a non-Muslim country for doing an act that is against Islam, and of course he's a fanboy of the Satanic State of Iraq & The Levant because these people are basically rabid animals overdue to be put to  sleep, I'm not sure if I would go so far as to call the gays he killed 100% innocent in the eyes of God. They were innocent in the eyes of American law though and that's what we should of course focus on. As American citizens, we either must follow the laws of those who have been generous enough to allow us to live here or be willing to pay the penalties if we break their laws without making excuses for ourselves as if we are not to be held accountable for causing social disorder or harm to others in their countries. But that's of course what these devils desire isn't it, to force the rest of us into a war we don't want or need. These people love it when Muslims are oppressed or hated in the West, because they see it as an opportunity for themselves.

[Ruq]

47 minutes ago, Saintly_Jinn23 said:

I'm not sure if I would go so far as to call the gays he killed 100% innocent in the eyes of God.

You dont know anything about the sex lives of the individuals who were murdered yesterday. Many of them probably werent gay because (according to reports ive read) it was a club that was popular with all kinds of people, including many latinos on the clubs 'latino night'. So the most you can say is that they were there to enjoy music and dancing and as they were unlikely to be from conservative Muslim backgrounds i doubt they were cognisant of that being at all problematic spiritually speaking.

[notme]

It's a hate crime.The headlines are calling it a terrorist act. Why isn't it called a terrorist act when someone bombs an abortion clinic. I think the media is working on changing the definition of terrorism from "crime committed to influence a political or social cause" to "any crime committed by a Muslim person".

Whatever you call it, murder of innocent people is never justified. May the families and friends of the victims find peace and comfort. 

[Abdul-Hadi]

I live in FL. This happened twenty minutes from my younger sister's apartment. She & her ex-bf have done DJ sets at this club before.

What's really bothering me the most is that this had to happen right after I received a copy of the meaning of Qur'an (English) and was up until 5am reading the posts on this forum about the Islamic connections to Frank Herbert's Dune. Even worse, it happened about a two weeks after I began researching the legit truth about Islam and tuned out the US chatterbox outlets that filled my head with erroneous information since I was a teenage boy.

I tend to see "meaning" in everything and I feel like it's God punishing me (I was raised Catholic but left the church because of how they are granting my father an annulment without any question twenty years after he walked out on my us) for even daring to try and gain knowledge. I know the folks who go to the Masjid in my town are beside themselves as this literally will make their lives that much more difficult.

I am very sad, confused, angry and above all, feeling like I was somehow responsible for this by trying to learn & being receptive to ideas outside of my current understanding of the world. I created this account just now to try and be brave and push through the nagging fear that something horrible might happen to me or my loved ones for my interest.

Words cannot begin to describe the depression I am feeling.

[It's me hello]

I feel that Muslims will have a very hard time living in the U.S. In the future. I hope we don't see an elevated rate of hate crimes against Muslims, or anyone.

[Miss Wonderful]

The Boxer Muhammad Ali, his name was everywhere when he passed away, and I bet you it made people interested in Islam  because he is considered a hero. Then this happens......just wow ....wow......u cant go a week with praising a Muslim on social media, when  some %#%##$#  in Orlando's sole mission is to give Islam a bad name. Honestly its the work of Dajjal's army no doubt about it. 

[notme]

14 minutes ago, GD41586 said:

I am very sad, confused, angry and above all, feeling like I was somehow responsible for this by trying to learn & being receptive to ideas outside of my current understanding of the world. I created this account just now to try and be brave and push through the nagging fear that something horrible might happen to me or my loved ones for my interest.

Words cannot begin to describe the depression I am feeling.

Welcome to shiachat. I'm sorry you've come here under such terrible circumstances, but hopefully you will look around the forum and we can be helpful to you in your study of Islam. 

Never blame yourself for someone else's actions. You didn't cause that psycho to go on a shooting spree; that was his choice. The Quran says no man can bear the burden of another. 

[Ruq]

@GD41586 Thats superstitious thinking and not healthy, so please challenge these worries. What happened in Orlando was due to choices made by that individual (and anyone who assisted him), it had nothing to do with you. It was his business and Gods business. We cant know why Allah allowed it to happen, but we must try and respond in the most appropriate way to allow for any good to flourish in response and to avert any more evil. Just being a kind person to those you meet and expressing solidarity with others can have profound affects.

[Mir Ali]

I don't know what to call it. But I won't use the word 'terror'. Because the definition of terrorism is not clear to me. If terrorism simply means killing innocent people, why wasn't Adolf Hitler ever called a terrorist? Why are George bush and Tony Blair never called terrorists for killing innocent iraqi people? 

This incident will be condemned by the international community. But 2 days back 30 civilians died in a U.S led coalition air strike in Syria. I wish they condemn that also. But I'm afraid it'll never happen. And as for defination of terrorism, it is confusing.

[Saintly_Jinn23]

24 minutes ago, Ruq said:

You dont know anything about the sex lives of the individuals who were murdered yesterday. Many of them probably werent gay because (according to reports ive read) it was a club that was popular with all kinds of people, including many latinos on the clubs 'latino night'. So the most you can say is that they were there to enjoy music and dancing and as they were unlikely to be from conservative Muslim backgrounds i doubt they were cognisant of that being at all problematic spiritually speaking.

My more open views towards music have been made clear before, but either way I doubt such an establishment that catered primarily to homosexuals partgoers had a very high rate of sexual or moral fidelity, whether all the goers were gay or not. But again, that's not the point.  I bring this up only because I know there are some on this site of a particularly conservative religious disposition who may be a little confused how to react to an ISIS fan killing homosexuals, considering that Shi'i law agrees that homosexuality is a grave sin that in worst case scenarios may be punishable by death. I'm trying to say that we don't need to change our stance on homosexuality just to seem less extreme nor do we need to somehow regard this individual's actions as any less reprehensible simply because those he targeted may not have been totally innocent from our point of view.

@GD41586

If you are sincerely considering conversion/reversion to Islam/Shi'ism, I hope this event won't discourage you. Know that the best way to prevent disasters like this is to learn about true Islam and continue to consistently perform good deeds in the name of Allah (swt), His Prophet and the family of His Prophet.  It may be that your sincerity and honest desires are being tested and test whether you choose to take this incident as an excuse to close your mind off.

[Abdul-Hadi]

8 minutes ago, Ruq said:

@GD41586 Thats superstitious thinking and not healthy, so please challenge these worries. 

It is a very destructive and bad tendency that I am currently working towards dropping. I've had a lot of contact with other denominations of christians, many of them fundamentalist baptist or evangelical and you would be amazed at how often that concept of "You/someone mocked God so now you/they are getting what they deserve!" is thrown around, which is in my understanding, completely antithetical to the message of Jesus/Isa.

This person that did this thing was a monster. Looking at what I've already read in the meaning of Qur'an, he was hiding behind Islam to justify his rage at other people. Of course the squawkers on the American right-web are salivating at this because they have such a burning hatred of Islam and Muslims for whatever reason and just a quick google search will turn up "Still think Islam is peaceful?" and all of the same narratives and "Look! There it is!" Proof texting that they are wont to engage in every single time; but they are always the very first ones to play the "No True Scottsman" card whenever a christian loses their mind and starts slaying people... or beating up people they suspect of being Muslims for "revenge".

This country has truly lost it's collective mind.

[Ruq]

Another man has been arrested in LA under suspicion of planning an attack on a gay parade. It seems its not related to the shooting in Orlando, but if he was also full of hate he may have been inspired by that guy.

[It's me hello]

22 minutes ago, testingbed1 said:

Lets be realistic about a few things 

Firstly : Homosexuality in Islam is a major sin, and God destroyed the nation of Lut who were mass homosexuals, so hence homosexuality is prone to destruction 

Secondly : I am not gong to be afraid or silence myself about talking truth because it offends somebody , what am i supposed to suddenly change my views of Islam because people are thinking negatively about Islam? We are meant to just conform to all their ideas and give up our own faith because we fear backlash? As followers of the martyr of Karbala? who's family and friends were all annihilated and killed standing up for his belief/views?

Islam thought me to speak truth even if it means that i will be targeted and maybe even attacked, and for that i do not fear , God is my protector and witness 

Thirdly : Do you really think that if none of these events happened that they would just leave us alone? Do you have any idea how much our image is tainted in the world? you think they would all just say "oh they are okay lets like them now" and they would leave us alone? Very unlikely , to them we are the lowest of the low, the worst of the worst , have you ever read or heard what they say about us?

They hate us to such a degree that many have said horrendous things they would do to us and our sisters, go and read their comments on us, there is plenty of forums and message boards where they talk about Muslims and Islam and see what they think of you , and you think this is going to change any time soon? After so much damage was done in our name? 

So let them think what they like i dont fear their thoughts , and i will not be silent about truth even if it causes me backlash 


 

Even though the Islamic community looks bad, does it have to become worse? Nowadays, I feel scared going outside. I'm becoming hesitant to share my religious beliefs with anyone.

[Jafar moh]

@GD41586

Then don't be afraid to question, brother. If you think that the reason this happened is because you began to dwell into different religions... then what kind of God are you following? You have the free will, and the heart that is inside your body is your heart, so do what you wan't with it.

QUESTION. Question everything and don't listen to anybody who says you can't. I can assure you the more you look into Islam in general, the more you'll figure out things on your own and then you'll be able to begin to build on the puzzle of your life, piece by piece. Don't let this incident scare you, rather let it be a motive to figure out what really is the reality of Islam, with an open heart and an unbiased thought. You can begin even now.

 

[Hasnain Ali1]

If you Stand for Allah SWT it matters not who stands against you. if i may add my 2 cents, we can not live in fear no matter what comes, it is better to speak truth and work towards sharing it with others, Islam was built on sharing the truth and trusting people to do and stand for what is right and just, for those who hate us out of ignorance are simple i too once hated all muslims, but it was through acts of kindness from both sunni and shia that i came to Islam, so stand with the truth speak the truth and without a doubt follow the Ahlulbayt (AS) in all their actions.

[Saintly_Jinn23]

35 minutes ago, testingbed1 said:

Lets be realistic about a few things 

Firstly : Homosexuality in Islam is a major sin, and God destroyed the nation of Lut who were mass homosexuals, so hence homosexuality is prone to destruction 

Secondly : I am not gong to be afraid or silence myself about talking truth because it offends somebody , what am i supposed to suddenly change my views of Islam because people are thinking negatively about Islam? We are meant to just conform to all their ideas and give up our own faith because we fear backlash? As followers of the martyr of Karbala? who's family and friends were all annihilated and killed standing up for his belief/views?

Islam thought me to speak truth even if it means that i will be targeted and maybe even attacked, and for that i do not fear , God is my protector and witness 

Thirdly : Do you really think that if none of these events happened that they would just leave us alone? Do you have any idea how much our image is tainted in the world? you think they would all just say "oh they are okay lets like them now" and they would leave us alone? Very unlikely , to them we are the lowest of the low, the worst of the worst , have you ever read or heard what they say about us?

They hate us to such a degree that many have said horrendous things they would do to us and our sisters, go and read their comments on us, there is plenty of forums and message boards where they talk about Muslims and Islam and see what they think of you , and you think this is going to change any time soon? After so much damage was done in our name?


 

As someone who has not been here awhile because he's been distracted by all the other far corners of the internet, I can confirm this. The kind of unmitigated hate you'll find for Muslims on] the net is pretty huge. Even worse if you're a Shi'a, cause you might be trying to defend Islam to all of a sudden some upset European nationalist, an American conservative, an uptight gay atheist liberal and a Bakri all hounding you and treating you like you're scum of the earth on the same forum.

You really don't encounter that much outside of the internet though mostly because the average person is too afraid to express how they might really feel outside of the internet.

But either way, we are called by the Ahlul Bayt to endure such things and again, we should try to offset incidents like this by doing good works in our communities to show that we are different. Ask yourself what you've done today to improve the images of Muslims or the followers of Ahlul Bayt. If you can't find anything, you're just as bad as this dude who shot up the club and gave the Trumps and Bill Mahers more excuses to badmouth our faith.

[sharinganMahdi]

It's the mercy of Allah swt that he has made our enemies weak and cowardly if it wasn't for rabbulalimeens mercy these fascist right wing extremists would have annihilated us and civil war would have broken out in western countries against Islam but alhumdulilah these people are cowards all the way to the depth of their core 

[Saintly_Jinn23]

On 6/12/2016 at 9:50 PM, sharinganMahdi said:

It's the mercy of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) that he has made our enemies weak and cowardly if it wasn't for rabbulalimeens mercy these fascist right wing extremists would have annihilated us and civil war would have broken out in western countries against Islam but alhumdulilah these people are cowards all the way to the depth of their core 

Honestly, we shouldn't make too many enemies on the right. Many of the right-wing, at least in America, are conservative Christians who share far more in common with us than the left-wing University feminists who pretend they care about our faith when they just want to infiltrate it and make it more "progressive" by their standards. Many of them could be swayed to relax their opinions on us if we reached out to them in a more meaningful way.

But right now, I can just imagine the right-wingers on the internet like [EDIT], the MSNBC comment section, youtube, etc. mocking the so-called progressive left over the fact that it was a Muslim that shot up all these gay people with things like "I wonder how the multicultural Mudslime loving social justice warriors will defend Pisslam now when they're killing fags".

One reason the right-wing dislikes us is that they often see us as tools of the modern progressive left-wing and I can't help but think that we have indeed allowed ourselves to become pets of the Left rather than building better relationships with the more conservative and traditional elements of Western society by emphasizing our shared Abrahamic values. At least the right tend to hate us openly so we know what they're all about, the Lefties often pretend they're our friends but ultimately want to destroy our religion from within and make us all happy, race neutral, transgender gay Marxist Muslims and if they can't do that, they'll make us atheists for whom Muslim is just an ideological or racial thing like how for the Jews today, being Jew is more about race and supporting Israel than following Orthodox, non-gay friendly Judaism.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Hameedeh
[EDIT] Removed the name of an imageboard website that has inappropriate and dangerous content.

[eThErEaL]

3 hours ago, Saintly_Jinn23 said:

Nah, it's just more Nasibis being Nasibi.

 

I agree that people take the traditional penalties for homosexuality as an excuse to say all sorts of unnecessary and hateful things on this site, but that doesn't change the fact that traditionally Islam and the school of Ahlul Bayt condemn homosexuality in the strictest terms and consider a punishment worthy of death, just as the Bible does. What room there is to negotiate the death penalty is something that needs to be discussed, however, especially in the absence of an infallible Imam (as)

While this shooter was clearly in the wrong for trying to assume he has the right to punish non-Muslims in a non-Muslim country for doing an act that is against Islam, and of course he's a fanboy of the Satanic State of Iraq & The Levant because these people are basically rabid animals overdue to be put to  sleep, I'm not sure if I would go so far as to call the gays he killed 100% innocent in the eyes of God. They were innocent in the eyes of American law though and that's what we should of course focus on. As American citizens, we either must follow the laws of those who have been generous enough to allow us to live here or be willing to pay the penalties if we break their laws without making excuses for ourselves as if we are not to be held accountable for causing social disorder or harm to others in their countries. But that's of course what these devils desire isn't it, to force the rest of us into a war we don't want or need. These people love it when Muslims are oppressed or hated in the West, because they see it as an opportunity for themselves.

All of what you said is besides the point I made.  You might be able to argue that under the edicts of a Ma'sum, the very act of homosexuality (and to be very specific, the insertion of the male organ in another male's rectum) IN PUBLIC, warrants the death penalty when reported by four eye witnesses (Allahu Alim).  But again...all this is besides the point I made.  the fact is we should not hate gays and not should we seek to change them.  The only one we should seek to change is ourself.  It maybe that gays are simply not responsible and that they are victims of DNA mutations caused by certain herbicides.  

 

[Sumerian]

20 minutes ago, Saintly_Jinn23 said:

Honestly, we shouldn't make too many enemies on the right. Many of the right-wing, at least in America, are conservative Christians who share far more in common with us than the left-wing University feminists who pretend they care about our faith when they just want to infiltrate it and make it more "progressive" by their standards. Many of them could be swayed to relax their opinions on us if we reached out to them in a more meaningful way.

But right now, I can just imagine the right-wingers on the internet like 4chan, the MSNBC comment section, youtube, etc. mocking the so-called progressive left over the fact that it was a Muslim that shot up all these gay people with things like "I wonder how the multicultural Mudslime loving social justice warriors will defend Pisslam now when they're killing fags".

One reason the right-wing dislikes us is that they often see us as tools of the modern progressive left-wing and I can't help but think that we have indeed allowed ourselves to become pets of the Left rather than building better relationships with the more conservative and traditional elements of Western society by emphasizing our shared Abrahamic values. At least the right tend to hate us openly so we know what they're all about, the Lefties often pretend they're our friends but ultimately want to destroy our religion from within and make us all happy, race neutral, transgender gay Marxist Muslims and if they can't do that, they'll make us atheists for whom Muslim is just an ideological or racial thing like how for the Jews today, being Jew is more about race and supporting Israel than following Orthodox, non-gay friendly Judaism.

How about we don't try seeking common ground neither with the left or the right and stay out of their battles?

Why does it matter to us?

[Sumerian]

22 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

All of what you said is besides the point I made.  You might be able to argue that under the edicts of a Ma'sum, the very act of homosexuality (and to be very specific, the insertion of the male organ in another male's rectum) IN PUBLIC, warrants the death penalty when reported by four eye witnesses (Allahu Alim).  But again...all this is besides the point I made.  the fact is we should not hate gays and not should we seek to change them.  The only one we should seek to change is ourself.  It maybe that gays are simply not responsible and that they are victims of DNA mutations caused by certain herbicides.  

 

A transgressor is not the same as a Mu'min.

The Shari'a also forbids any gay act - not just sodomy. 

And we should try to change sinners, we are commanded to enjoin good and forbid evil.

Edited June 13, 2016 by The Batman

[Saintly_Jinn23]

7 minutes ago, The Batman said:

How about we don't try seeking common ground neither with the left or the right and stay out of their battles?

Why does it matter to us?

The point I'm getting at is that we should more or less stay out of Western political affairs but build relationships based on shared religious values primarily. This would probably improve our relationship with the right just well enough that we can stay out of the battle between them and the left and not be seen as a subversive element or be used as tools by either side.

[Abdul-Hadi]

To clarify something because I don't believe I did before: I examined the reasoning behind why homosexualism is incompatible with all Abrahamic faiths in my heart and came to an interesting conclusion. It is not a pleasant conclusion for those who dwell in the household of permissiveness and social liberalism; but it is a conclusion I have reached independent of any actual outside human influence.

Homosexualism is futile. It serves no biological purpose other than to take man's desires and satiate them temporarily in a way that will only continue to feed into them. You can look at how the bar has been lowered culturally and the fog of uncertainty that has descended on American society since I was a child in the early 1990s (to go by CE because I do not know Islamic dates) . The mantra in America and the West is usually "If it feels good, do it!" and as long as you aren't harming anyone, it's ok, right?

Insufflating crystal methamphetamine up your nose "feels good". What it does to your body and mind is a completely different can of soup. Drinking soda "feels good" but in reality, it is horrendous for you.

Homosexualism serves no function. It is a distraction of the worst kind that takes man's eyes off of the divine and can ultimately be reduced to pride: "I know the God says this is wrong, but I am going to keep doing it because I have no respect for His order or His will for me". In recent years, it has become a point of pride for people much like many other attributes that were one considered shameful: fornication, adultery, substance abuse, gluttony, and the list goes on.

I DO NOT ADVOCATE FOR THE MURDER OF HOMOSEXUALS OR ANY OTHER HUMAN BEING.

Homosexualism is antithetical to a properly functioning society, whether people like to hear it or not. This man in Orlando was absolutely wrong in killing those people and horribly, in my eyes, deprived them of the opportunity to hear of right living and repentance. He deprived them of the chance to learn more, to contribute positively to mankind, etc. I was taught that homosexual temptations were sinful by the tradition I experienced at large, but I am tempted by drug and alcohol use myself so I am not fit to even open my mouth to another about their sins. I tell the users here because I have no one else I can confide this information with, as the mere refusal to praise LGBT has taken the position of disgust to society that was previously filled by deviant sex practices.

But I am not an expert on the things of the God by any means. This was just a topic on my heart, I am merely a lost human who is quickly becoming disenchanted with the meaningless consumerist "pay bills until you die" culture of my country that cherishes not wisdom, knowledge, or things of the God as beautiful and desirable; and elevates the absolute worst that our race has to offer to an almost divine status.

People try to sell me on the idea of it being "hate", but it is not "hate", merely logical reasoning behind why it is bad for all parties involved (and society and mankind is holistically involved on this level).

I apologize for any confusion, but I feel like we're probably mostly in the same general chapter here.

[eThErEaL]

35 minutes ago, The Batman said:

A transgressor is not the same as a Mu'min.

The Shari'a also forbids any gay act - not just sodomy. 

And we should try to change sinners, we are commanded to enjoin good and forbid evil.

 

We are discussing homosexuality and "arguably", its punishment of death penalty 1) under the edicts of a Ma'sum, 2) if such an act is done publicly and if 3) there are 4 witnesses to report it.  According to common Islamic Laws (I reference Dr. Sekalashfar's lecture on Homosexuality), only sodomy is interpreted as homosexuality, not any other of the "gay activities".  In other words, it can be argued that "under the edicts of a Ma'sum", the act of PUBLIC sodomy, reported by 4 witnesses, warrants the death penalty (not the other gay activities).        

[rkazmi33]

1 hour ago, Saintly_Jinn23 said:

At least the right tend to hate us openly so we know what they're all about, the Lefties often pretend they're our friends but ultimately want to destroy our religion from within and make us all happy, race neutral, transgender gay Marxist Muslims and if they can't do that, they'll make us atheists for whom Muslim is just an ideological or racial thing 

I agree with your post but why did you mention race-neutral? What's wrong with being race-neutral and how is that against Islam? 

[Sumerian]

25 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

We are discussing homosexuality and "arguably", its punishment of death penalty 1) under the edicts of a Ma'sum, 2) if such an act is done publicly and if 3) there are 4 witnesses to report it.  According to common Islamic Laws (I reference Dr. Sekalashfar's lecture on Homosexuality), only sodomy is interpreted as homosexuality, not any other of the "gay activities".  In other words, it can be argued that "under the edicts of a Ma'sum", the act of PUBLIC sodomy, reported by 4 witnesses, warrants the death penalty (not the other gay activities).        

According to the Grand Ayotallahs, any homosexual activity, ranging from kissing to touching, is haram. I never argued that they are punishable by death, I just said they're haram. So what's the problem?

You said we should leave gays alone. I say no, we are commanded to guide sinners. Amr bil Ma'roof and Nahi an al-Munkar are from our Furu.

[Sumerian]

39 minutes ago, Saintly_Jinn23 said:

The point I'm getting at is that we should more or less stay out of Western political affairs but build relationships based on shared religious values primarily. This would probably improve our relationship with the right just well enough that we can stay out of the battle between them and the left and not be seen as a subversive element or be used as tools by either side.

I see.