Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
Sign in to follow this  
maryamjfr

Treatment of Kafirs/Non-believers by Allah

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

Assalamualaikum everyone, 

This is my first post on Shiachat so lets see how it goes. 
Today I spoke to two friends about Islam again. They are both agnostic, one used to be a practising Christian, the other a Buddhist.
We talked about religions and Islam and none of us seem to see eye to eye about most of it. What I got stuck on during our discussion is: How are non-believers/kafirs treated in Islam, particularly on Judgement Day?

My knowledge is limited but I would like to learn more too about this, as its quite a relevant topic for non-muslims. Personally, I would like to believe that our Lord is omnibenevolent and that non-believers as well as believers of different religions will be judged by Allah according to the good and bad they have done in their lives.

I was sent an excerpt from Surah Yunus, 10:4 specifically, saying:

those who disbelieved will have a drink of scalding water and a painful punishment for what they used to deny.

إِلَيْهِ مَرْجِعُكُمْ جَمِيعًا ۖ وَعْدَ اللَّهِ حَقًّا ۚ إِنَّهُ يَبْدَأُ الْخَلْقَ ثُمَّ يُعِيدُهُ لِيَجْزِيَ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ بِالْقِسْطِ ۚ وَالَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا لَهُمْ شَرَابٌ مِّنْ حَمِيمٍ وَعَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ بِمَا كَانُوا يَكْفُرُونَ
Now this was a Sahih International translation they found online. 

So, main question repeated is: how will non-believers and theists from other religions be treated and judged by Allah?

Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alaikum Salaam, 

Non-believers will be thrown in hell on the day of Judgement because they weren't monotheist. As far as their good deeds are concerned, they will get all the rewards in this world itself while having no share in the Hereafter. 

Additionally, monotheist but of not correct aqidah (belief) people will also be in the hell like Jews, Christians, Muslims etc. 

Aban says that Sulaym said: “I heard Ali (AS) - 

...... Jews have become 71 sects - 70 sects from them will be in Hell, 1 sect will 
go to Heaven and this is the one that obeyed Yush’a ibn Noon, the trustee of 
Musa and Christians are divided into 72 sects. 71 from them will go to Hell 
and 1 in Heaven and this is the one who obeyed Sham’un, the trustee of Isa 
(AS). This Ummah will have 73 sects - 72 from it will go to Hell and 1 will 
go to Heaven, and this the sect that obeyed the successor of Muhammad 
(SAW). He then his hand on his chest. 
Then he said: “Out of 73 sects, 13 all of whom connect themselves to the 
love Muwaddah for me - of these 1 will go to Heaven and 12 will be in 
Hell.”

Sulaym ibne qays, Hadith no. 32, pg no. 162. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As-salaamu 'alaikum, maryamjfr.

This, too, is my first post on Shiachat!  A "mutual newbie welcome to you."

You pose a good question, and one, I believe, that is deeper than a short answer in human words can address.  

It seems to me that the answers that might resonate with your two friends need to have a slightly different focus.  But those answers need both to be based in a firm basis --the attributes of Allaah, (swt) as discussed in Al-Qur'aan kareem.  Here is a good summary of one such starting point:

Quote

Thus, the belief, that man must get full reward and/or punishment of his good and/or evil actions after his death, is based upon reason. Any sensible person could find out this Truth by himself, even if nobody were to guide him towards this conclusion.
 
But the same sensible person cannot find out by himself when, where and in which form that reward or punishment would be meted out. This rewarding or punishing is the prerogative of the Creator, and entirely depends upon His discretion. Therefore, the details of this Justice can not be understood without the guidance of the prophets. We Must accept these Truths, as described by the Holy Prophet of Islam (S), and mould our actions accordingly, if we want to get eternal bliss and save ourselves from everlasting disgrace.  (from https://www.al-islam.org/day-of-judgement-sayyid-akhtar-rizvi )

So, the quoted ayat you gave relates to the point: Allaah has given us Reason. . . but without the correct "ground rules" our reasoning as to what is right,wrong, or neutral can easily be mistaken, due to the influence of our parents, friends, and the society in which we live.  The Qur'aan is called "Al Furquaan" in English "The Criterion" -- in other words, the basis or standard on which to evaluate the truth and by which to guide our actions.

To someone brought up Christian, it might make sense to look at it like: "Hey, if you try to drive your car through a long stretch of hot desert country without understanding what the needs of your car's engine are in that environment, you probably will overheat and break down. . . and maybe die.  Nobody is being cruel to you -- you just acted without seeking wisdom before your trip."

The one who has been taught as a Buddhist might be more likely to understand that "as a Believer become closer to Allaah (swt), s/he will experience a change in consciousness that allows the accumulation of positive karma leading to enlightenment." 

 

Both statements, of course, are only conversation-starters.  I do recommend the above-linked book, though --it covers a lot more than we can easily discuss in this thread.

Edited by 'abdun-Noor
typos

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I disagree with all of the answers so far, it is not so clear cut.

A good book on this issue: Islam and Religious Pluralism by Ayatullah Mutahari r.a : https://www.al-islam.org/islam-and-religious-pluralism-ayatullah-murtadha-mutahhari

An indepth discussion on the Islamic perspective of Religious Pluralism. This book offers rational answers to questions such as: will the great inventors and scientists, despite their worthy services for humanity, go to Hell? Will the likes of Pasteur and Edison go to Hell whilst indolent people who have spent their lives in a corner of the Masjid go to Heaven?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, maryamjfr said:

Assalamualaikum everyone, 

This is my first post on Shiachat so lets see how it goes. 
Today I spoke to two friends about Islam again. They are both agnostic, one used to be a practising Christian, the other a Buddhist.
We talked about religions and Islam and none of us seem to see eye to eye about most of it. What I got stuck on during our discussion is: How are non-believers/kafirs treated in Islam, particularly on Judgement Day?

My knowledge is limited but I would like to learn more too about this, as its quite a relevant topic for non-muslims. Personally, I would like to believe that our Lord is omnibenevolent and that non-believers as well as believers of different religions will be judged by Allah according to the good and bad they have done in their lives.

I was sent an excerpt from Surah Yunus, 10:4 specifically, saying:

those who disbelieved will have a drink of scalding water and a painful punishment for what they used to deny.

إِلَيْهِ مَرْجِعُكُمْ جَمِيعًا ۖ وَعْدَ اللَّهِ حَقًّا ۚ إِنَّهُ يَبْدَأُ الْخَلْقَ ثُمَّ يُعِيدُهُ لِيَجْزِيَ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ بِالْقِسْطِ ۚ وَالَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا لَهُمْ شَرَابٌ مِّنْ حَمِيمٍ وَعَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ بِمَا كَانُوا يَكْفُرُونَ
Now this was a Sahih International translation they found online. 

So, main question repeated is: how will non-believers and theists from other religions be treated and judged by Allah?

Thanks

Both Muslims and Christians are religion of the same God maybe other religions also are revealed thru the Holy Spirit. 

Peace and bless you

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Welcome, all of you to the forum. 

Nice to see new people and fresh insights. Hope you enjoy the place.

I have met Muslims who treat me as equal, some treat me like dirt, some patronize me as if they understand my dirt, but that's not limited to Muslims vs the rest of the world. Try Fellowship Baptist vs Southern Baptist, or vs the United church, or vs Catholics, and don't forget everything vs the Jews.

Who goes to hell, who goes to heaven is something we can only theorize. Every religion has their own set of rules. Trouble is, "knowing" you believe and follow the only one true criteria, you regard those of another criteria as wrong and, going to hell. This belief leads to judgement and creates an attitude that was the start of many a battle, and who's to say how many of each side ended up in heaven?

Reminds me of a story I heard long ago about a group of Catholics on a bus ride that had a terrible crash. About 20 of them all met at the Pearly gates of heaven, with Saint Peter there to welcome them. Saint Peter says "Follow me and I will show you the sights of heaven and where you will be staying" They all follow along overjoyed about what they see and knowing they are all in heaven. Then Saint Peter turns to them and says, "In this area you must bow your head and remain silent as you pass alongside this wall."  One of them asked if this was an extra special area where they had to learn a new habit of worship, or what. Saint Peters response was, "Actually, it's kind of a special area, you see, on the other side of this short wall are Baptists and we're not sure what they would do if they found out they weren't the only ones here.  

If you can leave that decision to God, then you can look at people as humans instead of right and wrong doers. Interesting is how God has given laws to some, and later reduced laws for others over the ages, written from Old Testament, to New Testament, to the Quran. If a man follows the ancient laws, is he guilty of not following one of the new and improved laws? The real study should be deciphering if it is truly one of God's laws, or a man made god law meant to show conformance to a particular religion. 

Matthew wrote about the return of Jesus and of the judgement days as separating the sheep from the goats, (ch 23).  He didn't mention separating any one form of religion from another. In those days sheep and goats were often in the same flock, but the message was not about separating flock from flock, but rather sheep from goats. This tells me God will choose whom He wills from every congregation of every religion regardless of whom we think should go one way or the other.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Son of Placid said:

Reminds me of a story I heard long ago about a group of Catholics on a bus ride that had a terrible crash. About 20 of them all met at the Pearly gates of heaven, with Saint Peter there to welcome them. Saint Peter says "Follow me and I will show you the sights of heaven and where you will be staying" They all follow along overjoyed about what they see and knowing they are all in heaven. Then Saint Peter turns to them and says, "In this area you must bow your head and remain silent as you pass alongside this wall."  One of them asked if this was an extra special area where they had to learn a new habit of worship, or what. Saint Peters response was, "Actually, it's kind of a special area, you see, on the other side of this short wall are Baptists and we're not sure what they would do if they found out they weren't the only ones here.  

What kind of a story is that? I understand that you using this to make a point but do people really think it is wise to make up stories about the unseen? I am pretty certain that I read this in a joke book, the Afterlife is not a joke. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, testingbed1 said:

Selams 

I used to think about this quiet alot also 

i used to think why God why? look how nice they are? speaking about non believers 

lets face it, today and this is world wide, many people dont follow their religion and many more dont even believe in God, but yet when we see them they are so happy and nice and the list goes on about how better they are then us in everything 

but we forget to neglect some very important points 

they live a very care free life, they dont have any pressure on them, they are really enjoying 

i am from a European background so i speak about people in general who are westerners, lets stop for a moment and examine look at their lives

they drink non stop, they drink wine at lunch dinner, sometimes even breakfast, at night at gatherings , they drink alcohol , so they spend most of their life in a najas state

they dont worry about prayers or charity or  religious duties, they adulterate and sleep around, they change partners , they eat everything they see, no prohibitions, they dont worry about fasting or praying 5 times a day 

they dont worry about backbiting or lying,  now that doesnt mean they are all pure evil and constantly lie and backbite, but there is no restrictions to it

they wear anything and they look at anything, they dont have to lower their gaze and they compete in wearing attractive clothing/no clothing for attractiveness 

meaning they spend their whole lives in ease and comfort and dont have to worry about being killed or coming from countries where there is wars, in fact most of them come from countries that bring the war and they see us as the ones who are the cause of evil 

now God is just, God guides everyone , but God is also the one who misguides and who knows everyone well 

He misguides those whom He knows that if he where to send down guidance they would reject it completely , so instead he misguides them to live their life as they please with consequences

unfortunately now days they hate us, they look down upon us and Islam because they dont understand us and they are fed lies on top of it all 

another important thing

we will ALL go to Hell, this is a statement in the Quran that EVERY soul will go to Hell , the greatest saint to the greatest sinner,  and that is why on laylatul qadr we do special prayers because that is one time that God lets people out of Hell and we hope to be amongst them 

the only difference however is that this going through Hell which is promised for everyone,( even Imam Ali will walk through it with the only exception is that Hell will complain to God for Imam Ali putting out its fire by just being in its presence due to his state of soul/nafs which kills evil and burning of desire and evil) 

and in this time we will pay for every sin which the Quran stipulates , there is no getting away with anything, either you will pay for your sins here or there but wil eventually pay for it, and same goes for good deeds, you will be paid for good deeds, but the advantage is that for good deeds you get more then you did , but for sins you get only that which you did , the God we believe in is a Just God and He has promised punishment for sinners and good deeds for god doers, and there is no other ways about it

the beauty of Islam is that it clearly states that you will see EVERY evil be it even the size of an ant and you will see EVERY good be it the size of an ant , this is God's justice and our own responsibility towards our actions which the Quran clearly outlines 

we are not chosen, nobody is, Islam states that WHOEVER you are you will suffer for every evil and rewarded for every good 

however Imams have told us that sometimes the suffering in this life will be enough to rid us of our evil actions and we wont go to hell at all, and sometimes we will have to suffer n barzakh(purgatory) and if that is not enough then we will have to spend time in Hell , so it depends on how many sins you have and what sins you did, some sins carry more weight then others and depends on how many times you repeated them

just dont forget the story of Jonah(yunus) where for simply running away from his people God punished him by being swallowed by the whale and burnt by its stomach acids 

so if God is punishing His prophets then you can imagine what state we will be in

there is another story about an arif that died and went to a heaven like state in purgatory 

he was met by somebody alive through some scenarios and he said that he seen this man in a nice place, but every now and again a snake would come and bite this person in this heaven like state 

so eventually he asked what is going on? 

and the arif said that during his life , he was once at a market and gave the WRONG RELIGIOUS ADVICE/RULINGS which he wasnt sure about, and now while he is in a purgatory heaven a snake comes every day and bites him due to the advice he gave and the injustice he served this person 

so if this guy was getting bitten by a snake every day in heaven for that action, can you imagine what will happen to us who repeatedly done sins which are far worse then giving wrong advice on religious ruling which we dont know about ? 

what about the sins of lying? backbiting? etc what is the punishment for them which are considered grave sins? 

anyway may God help us all and forgive us 

Salam

Just a minor correction , all do not GO to hell, but all the pious people will go Pass by it to witness the truth which Allah had mentioned. The pious will not feel anything from going pass it, but just witness.

But yes the majority will go to hell.

Barzakh means distance , and a time spent before the day of judgement.

so when we die , we enter the heavenly or hellish Barzakh.

During the day of ressurection, we all will be gathered, We have a place called Jahanam- hell, Araaf ( equal sin= equal good) Janah- heaven.

I can later provide you with all the ayas related to the above.

Regarding the sheikh being bitten story, since a sheikh supposedly has studied a lot , he will carry more responsibilty , and one of the things that is strictly prohibited in Islam is not to pass fatwa( personal opinions in religious matters), according to Imam Jafar al- Sadiq that said run away from fatwa, like you run away from a lion.

Because if they say something in correctly according to their personal opinions can effect millions of people in their religion.

But a lay person is not teaching people about religion and may just effect a few people.

Edited by certainclarity

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, testingbed1 said:

its this attitude that "now its them not us" that is exactly the problem 

i am sorry but you are wrong, and i am not going to argue about it, but you will see, just wait and see

the Quran says that "there is not one soul that shall not pass through it(i.e Hell)" and i know that the Shia just like any other Muslim sects is full of sin , many many many numerous sins 

if we where truly good and free from Hell, we would already receive the rewards now

but that is hardly the case, the average Muslim is just as lost and confused as a non believer 

just go through the posts people put here

read about how they believe in evolution and other nonsense, they dont even know the basics of marifatul nafs and marifatulah 

praying 5 times a day gets you nowhere, i know people that pray every night long prayers , but their behaviour is still horrible self centred and blind and selfish

very very very rare few benefit from the prayers they do daily , and fasting and deeds, very very few that truly seek God and truth 

"the root of all evil is the love of this world" Prophet Muhammad

Salam,

I think you did not read my post properly. 

I will quote my own post, as an evidence to what I stated:

all the PIOUS people will GO PASS BY IT to witness the truth which Allah had mentioned. The PIOUS will not feel anything from going pass it, but just witness.

PIETY= TAQWA

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, testingbed1 said:

a pious person doesnt mean he is infallible, that was my point , that as long as you got even ONE thing tarnishing your soul you will have to suffer its consequences , there is only 14 infallible and only they will not suffer Hell, the rest of us will pious or not 

but life has trained us for that already, we are already suffering here, so it just about being patient and getting through it and obviously not adding more(sins) to it 
 

Kindly bring a verse that the pious good believer will be inflicted with punishment of hell.

Your first statement:

 
we will **ALL go to Hell**, this is a statement in the Quran that EVERY soul **WILL GO TO HELL**
 
Your second statement:

the Quran says that "there is not one soul that shall not PASS THROUGH it(i.e Hell)" 
****
 
There is a big difference in GOING TO HELL and being punished and PASSING THRU / GOING THRU Or EVEN ENTERING HELL and witness the event without being harmed according to the Quran.
 
Which one do you mean?
 
If you mean passing THRU hell according the the verse you quoted. But if you mean GOING TO HELL this is an incorrect statement.
 
Probably it was a type error in your first statement or do you believe contradicting to the Quran that the pious believers will also go to hell before entering Heaven ?
 
They will go THRU/ BY it / Enter it but NOT experience the torment and punishment of fire, but will witness it. They won't be burnt like the ones who are destined to hell, and feel the torment of punishment .
 
Quran:
 
Whoever believes in God and acts with integrity, He will REMIT HIS MISDEEDS( 64:9)
 
Quran:
 
Then we will SAVE those who are pious ( taqwa) and LEAVE THE WRONG DOERS IN IT. ( 19:72)
 
Then, when they neglect what they were reminded of, WE SAVED those who prohibited evil, We seized those who did wrong with a terrible punishment , because of their sinfulness.( 7:165)
( previous aya talks about people who have taqwa)
 
****
The aya did not say the PIOUS believer will have to bare the torment of fire like the sinners who are not forgiven, but forgives the PIOUS believer for their sin, NOT  BELIEVERS without TAQWA.
 
As you can be a believer but not pious, but a pious person is definitely a believer.
 
Hence the Quran mentions Allah will forgive the sins of the believer who practices taqwa.
 
Quran:
 
- those are they who hearts have been tests with taqwa. THEY WILL HAVE FORGIVENESS AND A GREAT REWARD.(49:3)
 
God has PROMISED those who believe and work righteousness;they will have FORGIVENESS and a GREAT REWARD ( 5:9)
 
Perfect example is also ibn Muljim , who used to pray , fast etc, but had a dis-eased heart and was not pious, and on the other hand Hur, though was a commander who was in charge of the calamity that befell on Imam Hussain becomes the first  martyr of Karbala.  
 
Quran:
Except for those who repent, believe and do righteous work. For them Allah will REPLACE THEIR EVIL DEEDS TO GOOD DEEDS! Allah IS FORGIVING AND MERCIFUL ( 25:70)
 
Last non least Salman Farsi was called part of Ahlul bayt though he was not infallible , and according to the prophet as he managed to achieve a high level of piety.
 
So according to your words Salman Farsi also has to face the torment of fire for even one sin he committed and will not be forgiven but punished for it.
 
If Allah would have to deal with us with justice he should give one reward for good point and one reward for bad but instead God being Wahab does this:
 
If Allah was not merciful towards the pious believers definitely all would have to experience the torment of hell fire. 
 
 
 
 

 

 

Edited by certainclarity

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, testingbed1 said:

bring a verse of the Quran which says that everyone will account for every action?

have you ever read Surah Zalzalah?

have you ever read the verse about Yunus (a.s) running away from his people and God making a whale swallow him and suffer its burns in it stomach for three days and three nights?

and that is a Prophet who ran away from his people because they where disobedient towards God?

If God punishes Yunus(a.s) what does that mean for you and i?

you have missed these straightforward facts, the shaytaan has deceived you in order to give you courage to sin 

and what about the Hadith from Imam Ali about getting forgiveness from one sin? have you ever read that hadith? where he says you need to seek forgiveness until your kneecaps are clotted in blood from kneeling on them?

I am not undermining sinning. 

I was just explaining that in the day of resurrection the PIOUS believer will have to enter hell not to *be punished.* and  being inflicted with fire to pay for his sins.( a pious person whom Allah considers pious, not If I think I am pious and pure. )

The verse in the Quran is very clear, it says the believers ( pious believers ) will enter it / go thru it but be SAVED from the torment.

Incase you are not aware a Pious believer means a one who tries his utmost best to refrain from sins, and tries not only not to sin but to excel in all he does to please Allah.

Prophet Yunus was punished on earth, and paid for it 3 years in the stomach of a whale.

He will not have to go to hell in the after life and be punished for that any more.

Prophet Adam was expelled to earth and had to go thru all the hardships on earth and had to pay for his sins on earth for years.

He will not have to pay for it in the after life and go and be punished in hell for it any more ..

I hope the point I am trying to make is clear for you .

Edited by certainclarity

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

What kind of a story is that? I understand that you using this to make a point but do people really think it is wise to make up stories about the unseen? I am pretty certain that I read this in a joke book, the Afterlife is not a joke. 

The punchline was more sad than funny, anyway, was this enough to discredit the point, and the rest of my post?

Look at all the made up stories of the unseen since my post. 

It's interesting to see just how many stories are out there.

I was at a Christian funeral not long ago. There were two speakers. One spoke of the deceased, (Merv) as going to the grave in wait for the time we are all risen in that great day. The other minister said Merv has already gone to heaven. Not sure if either of them really knew Merv. He had actually left his Christian life for a deeper study into Judaism. Not sure where that leaves him. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you to everyone for the replies. It's truly interesting to see it from so many views and finding out things I didn't know before.

At the moment as @Son of Placid mentioned, I am viewing everyone as equal humans with an equal chance of entering heaven whether they are religious or not. My current view is that we shall be judged for all our wrongdoings and good deeds. I am not convinced that non-believers and non-muslim theists will not enter heaven. 
I have seen many people, so have you, who pray and are theists but their actions and behaviour bring pain and discomfort to people... On the contrary, I have seen many many people with no religion or a religion different to mine who treat the people around them with utmost respect and love, even strangers. It's not right to assume that these good people have no chance of entering heaven @Lover of Ahlulbait (ams).

@'abdun-Noor I like your comparison to the desert, although I do disagree. I too believe that Holy Books are like a manual and the tool is your soul. Without the manual you may be able to use the machine well and it can last a long time but having the manual and using it allows you to use your soul to full potential and you can refer to the Holy Book for advice too. Similarly, you can search around for different sources and receive tips on how to use this tool better but that will depend on who and what you choose to believe (Hadiths). The manual, Quran, will be your most reliable source. Thank you for the link, I will read it soon.

@Tawheed313 Thank you! It sounds very interesting and exactly what I need to read. I will delve into this as soon as my exams are over Insha'Allah.

@testingbed1 Not all non-believers are like you described though, although I know your view isn't baseless, there are atheists out there who refrain from these actions and are educated, kind, loving and helpful. As for the going to hell part, like @certainclarity mentioned, I believe that we shall pay for our mistakes and pass through hell to see the state IF you are a pious believer and you deserve to go to heaven. If your sins are great and have not been forgiven, I guess the destination will be hell but only He knows. But then again I'm not sure of how we will be punished in the afterlife. Perhaps everyone will get to experience hell for the unforgiven sins but who knows? Our best bet is to live as good humans and the best versions of ourselves and ask for forgiveness from Allah and from the people we have wronged. 

@certainclarity I know about Barzakh but never heard of Araaf before! I would definitely like to read the ayas and sources related to both of these so please do share them.

My question about the excerpt from Surah Yunus has not been discussed yet but feel free to share your view about that. Also, to add to the discussion.. In Barzakh/Purgatory, souls wait until the day of Judgement and they will still be tested during that time right? And I understand that Barzakh will be good or bad depending on your previous actions. But I have heard that even the good people will have their faith tested during Barzakh and perhaps that people with sins can repent and ask for forgiveness too during Barzakh and have a chance for heaven if they have been forgiven? 
I would like to hear more about this topic and see different opinions.

I know we don't have a clear cut answer for any of what is to follow in the afterlife as it is He who decides our fate in the hereafter but let's all aim to be the best versions of ourselves and continue to treat each other with respect, regardless of our beliefs and views since there will always be differences.

Thank you to everyone so far for sharing your views and ideas! :) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On Saturday, June 11, 2016 at 10:07 AM, testingbed1 said:

Selams 

I used to think about this quiet alot also 

i used to think why God why? look how nice they are? speaking about non believers 

lets face it, today and this is world wide, many people dont follow their religion and many more dont even believe in God, but yet when we see them they are so happy and nice and the list goes on about how better they are then us in everything 

but we forget to neglect some very important points 

they live a very care free life, they dont have any pressure on them, they are really enjoying 

i am from a European background so i speak about people in general who are westerners, lets stop for a moment and examine look at their lives

they drink non stop, they drink wine at lunch dinner, sometimes even breakfast, at night at gatherings , they drink alcohol , so they spend most of their life in a najas state

they dont worry about prayers or charity or  religious duties, they adulterate and sleep around, they change partners , they eat everything they see, no prohibitions, they dont worry about fasting or praying 5 times a day 

they dont worry about backbiting or lying,  now that doesnt mean they are all pure evil and constantly lie and backbite, but there is no restrictions to it

they wear anything and they look at anything, they dont have to lower their gaze and they compete in wearing attractive clothing/no clothing for attractiveness 

meaning they spend their whole lives in ease and comfort and dont have to worry about being killed or coming from countries where there is wars, in fact most of them come from countries that bring the war and they see us as the ones who are the cause of evil 

now God is just, God guides everyone , but God is also the one who misguides and who knows everyone well 

He misguides those whom He knows that if he where to send down guidance they would reject it completely , so instead he misguides them to live their life as they please with consequences

unfortunately now days they hate us, they look down upon us and Islam because they dont understand us and they are fed lies on top of it all 

another important thing

we will ALL go to Hell, this is a statement in the Quran that EVERY soul will go to Hell , the greatest saint to the greatest sinner,  and that is why on laylatul qadr we do special prayers because that is one time that God lets people out of Hell and we hope to be amongst them 

the only difference however is that this going through Hell which is promised for everyone,( even Imam Ali will walk through it with the only exception is that Hell will complain to God for Imam Ali putting out its fire by just being in its presence due to his state of soul/nafs which kills evil and burning of desire and evil) 

and in this time we will pay for every sin which the Quran stipulates , there is no getting away with anything, either you will pay for your sins here or there but wil eventually pay for it, and same goes for good deeds, you will be paid for good deeds, but the advantage is that for good deeds you get more then you did , but for sins you get only that which you did , the God we believe in is a Just God and He has promised punishment for sinners and good deeds for god doers, and there is no other ways about it

the beauty of Islam is that it clearly states that you will see EVERY evil be it even the size of an ant and you will see EVERY good be it the size of an ant , this is God's justice and our own responsibility towards our actions which the Quran clearly outlines 

we are not chosen, nobody is, Islam states that WHOEVER you are you will suffer for every evil and rewarded for every good 

however Imams have told us that sometimes the suffering in this life will be enough to rid us of our evil actions and we wont go to hell at all, and sometimes we will have to suffer n barzakh(purgatory) and if that is not enough then we will have to spend time in Hell , so it depends on how many sins you have and what sins you did, some sins carry more weight then others and depends on how many times you repeated them

just dont forget the story of Jonah(yunus) where for simply running away from his people God punished him by being swallowed by the whale and burnt by its stomach acids 

so if God is punishing His prophets then you can imagine what state we will be in

there is another story about an arif that died and went to a heaven like state in purgatory 

he was met by somebody alive through some scenarios and he said that he seen this man in a nice place, but every now and again a snake would come and bite this person in this heaven like state 

so eventually he asked what is going on? 

and the arif said that during his life , he was once at a market and gave the WRONG RELIGIOUS ADVICE/RULINGS which he wasnt sure about, and now while he is in a purgatory heaven a snake comes every day and bites him due to the advice he gave and the injustice he served this person 

so if this guy was getting bitten by a snake every day in heaven for that action, can you imagine what will happen to us who repeatedly done sins which are far worse then giving wrong advice on religious ruling which we dont know about ? 

what about the sins of lying? backbiting? etc what is the punishment for them which are considered grave sins? 

anyway may God help us all and forgive us 

That is strange all souls will go to hell if one regrets all sins then why be in hell?

Peace and Gods mercy

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, testingbed1 said:

God is merciful and forgiving, but God is also wrathful and punishes its one of his names and attributes 
"Oh He before Whose terribleness mountains shake" 

"Oh He before Whose fearsomeness everything yields"

"Oh He Who metes out the severest punishment"
"Oh He Who is quick to reckon"
"Oh He whose Hell is the place of chastisement"

all from dua jawshan kabeer , and there is more if you care to read it where God is praised for being able to punish severely

its a fact He isnt just mercifull and forgiving He is also punishing and angry and wrathfull if you disobey Him
so i guess just like the police/law in your country, you dont tease them, disobey them and play around with them but respect their power and they will leave you alone 

its simple logic really

this is why we need to love God as well as fear God, He created us after all, and you must submit to Him or else He has promised severe punishment 
why are you so eager to intentionally sin? that should be your question, not why will God punish me if i sin?

Those who are evil want to be evil and those who are good want to be good. Be yourself and you are a perfect creation.

Peace and Goda blessings

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, testingbed1 said:

God is merciful and forgiving

I agree that God is merciful and forgiving.  I am forgiven, so my punishment has also been forgiven.  How is this the case in Islam?  If I still pass through hell for my sins, how is that forgiveness?

 

5 hours ago, testingbed1 said:

even Jesus went to Hell according to the Bible

Where does the Bible say this?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/10/2016 at 2:35 PM, maryamjfr said:

Assalamualaikum everyone, 

This is my first post on Shiachat so lets see how it goes. 
Today I spoke to two friends about Islam again. They are both agnostic, one used to be a practising Christian, the other a Buddhist.
We talked about religions and Islam and none of us seem to see eye to eye about most of it. What I got stuck on during our discussion is: How are non-believers/kafirs treated in Islam, particularly on Judgement Day?

My knowledge is limited but I would like to learn more too about this, as its quite a relevant topic for non-muslims. Personally, I would like to believe that our Lord is omnibenevolent and that non-believers as well as believers of different religions will be judged by Allah according to the good and bad they have done in their lives.

I was sent an excerpt from Surah Yunus, 10:4 specifically, saying:

those who disbelieved will have a drink of scalding water and a painful punishment for what they used to deny.

إِلَيْهِ مَرْجِعُكُمْ جَمِيعًا ۖ وَعْدَ اللَّهِ حَقًّا ۚ إِنَّهُ يَبْدَأُ الْخَلْقَ ثُمَّ يُعِيدُهُ لِيَجْزِيَ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ بِالْقِسْطِ ۚ وَالَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا لَهُمْ شَرَابٌ مِّنْ حَمِيمٍ وَعَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ بِمَا كَانُوا يَكْفُرُونَ
Now this was a Sahih International translation they found online. 

So, main question repeated is: how will non-believers and theists from other religions be treated and judged by Allah?

Thanks

Please read below, I hope it answers your questions adequately.  When I consider the below verses, those who are sincere and inclining towards truth, even if they don't find God's Message or have been able to fully encompass knowledge of the faiths, I feel have a good shot in Heaven.  However if an atheist whose spent time insincerely studying broken parts of it for their own purposes condescending towards those who follow, I'm quite sure they're going to burn, if Allah SWT wills it.                                  @DoJustice_LoveMercy

Quran: 3:7

It is God who has revealed the Book to you in which some verses are clear statements (which accept no interpretation) and these are the fundamental ideas of the Book, while other verses may have several possibilities. Those whose hearts are perverse, follow the unclear statements in pursuit of their own mischievous goals by interpreting them in a way that will suit their own purpose. No one knows its true interpretations except God and those who have a firm grounding in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All its verses are from our Lord." No one can grasp this fact except the people of reason.

Quran: 3:113-3:115

They are not [all] the same; among the People of the Scripture is a community standing [in obedience], reciting the verses of Allah during periods of the night and prostrating [in prayer]. They believe in Allah and the Last Day, and they enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong and hasten to good deeds. And those are among the righteous.And whatever good they do - never will it be removed from them. And Allah is Knowing of the righteous.

- Clearly the above verse gives sincere believers of God in Christianity and Judaism/other faiths who received scripture from God the recognition they deserve

Quran: 2:286

Allah does not charge a soul except [with that within] its capacity. It will have [the consequence of] what [good] it has gained, and it will bear [the consequence of] what [evil] it has earned. "Our Lord, do not impose blame upon us if we have forgotten or erred. Our Lord, and lay not upon us a burden like that which You laid upon those before us. Our Lord, and burden us not with that which we have no ability to bear. And pardon us; and forgive us; and have mercy upon us. You are our protector, so give us victory over the disbelieving people."

Quran: 17:15

Whoever is guided is only guided for [the benefit of] his soul. And whoever errs only errs against it. And no bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another. And never would We punish until We sent a messenger.

Quran 39:71-72

And those who disbelieved will be driven to Hell in groups until, when they reach it, its gates are opened and its keepers will say, "Did there not come to you messengers from yourselves, reciting to you the verses of your Lord and warning you of the meeting of this Day of yours?" They will say, "Yes, but the word of punishment has come into effect upon the disbelievers. [To them] it will be said, "Enter the gates of Hell to abide eternally therein, and wretched is the residence of the arrogant."

 

Edited by wmehar2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...