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reasoner

im from india

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assalamualaikum brothers n sisters,

Ashadu an la ilaha illa-llah, wa ashadu anna Muhammadun Aabduhu wa rasuluh.. . ,

im a born muslim.. im from india. .some hindu people who are courageous, do speculative thinking,driven by common sense  not by emotions,feelings,anger,rage,love etc . .   these kind of people  use logic.They are not proud of their forefathers or ancestry,they dont believe in fairy tales.They argue with their parents and eventually they either become atheist or become   muslim .

my question   is -people from every major religion go through some kind of test..These people from hindu religion will think which god is correct - murugan or vishnu or ram etc..

similarly in buddhism - they will have some kind of test. And in christianity, they believe prophet jesus as god . .hindus have some test which will test their faith , jews have some test which will test their faith, buddhist have some test which will test their faith, christians have some tests which will test their faith

Now what kind of ´Test´ is there for muslims?.... we believe prophet muhammad(saw) as the last prophet and islam is the final and correct religion...  are we special ? we ´muslim´ don´t have to go through any exams in this life ? so  i don´t  have to use my speculative thinking becuz i know islam is correct...right ?    

Sunni vs  Shia  ?

How to find out which is correct .

one way to find out is- finding ´errors´.

please post- Details on Imam Mahdi ,return of Prophet jesus and Dajjal According to both shia and sunni sources

if there are 90% errors in sunni or shia ,then i will know who is wrong n who is right.

then in day of judgement - standing before god , i can atleast say  i tried.

please dont redirect me to other topic or pages.

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Salam

Islam is submission to the truth.

The test is to find and follow the truth.

Make intense effort to discover the reality concerning the issue "Succession" (Imamate/Khilafah).

Did the prophet appoint Imam Ali as his successor or not?

With sincerity, you will find and follow the truth Inshallah.

 

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if  imam Ali  succeeded , then everything would have been hunky dory.. . ?

it´s  like saying  after prophet noah everything would have been great 

it´s  like saying  after prophet moses everything would have been great 

it´s  like saying  after prophet jesus everything would have been great 

if -   like saying  after prophet muhammad everything would have been great 

so there is no need for imam mahdi or return of prophet jesus or dajjal

 

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Which level are you at?

You should study the religion step by step so as to find and follow the truth.

The first step is Tawheed (oneness of Allah,سبحانه و تعالی).

The next step is the message of Islam whose messenger is the prophet Mohammad -Peace and blessings be upon him and his household-.

The next is Imamate: Did the holy prophet appoint his successors, i.e. from Imam Ali to Imam Mahdi?

The next is ...

At which level are you?

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salam brother,

i have engineering degree in computers.

Bill Gates , mark  Zuckerberg  don´t have degree s.

so im better than bill gates and mark zuckerberg ......    ?

James parkinson has only diploma in medicine . not a degree.   .   ?.

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assalamualaikum brothers n sisters,

 

there is a possibility that both sunni and shia are correct in somethings and wrong in somethings.

there is only one sect which will go to heaven. who knows the name of this sect. . History tells us that majority of people will go to hell becuz of ignorance,pride,ego,hate,love of their forefathers or ancestry,tribe,race,skin color etc. So this sect is very small in population compared to other sect.

So Shia are you small Sect  ? or Sunni Are you Small Sect  ?  

so Which is this Sect  ? How to find out ? I dont Know . . Even in christianity this sect is small, Also in Judaism This Sect is small ,so in islam This sect is small or Large ?

 

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@reasoner:

Have you heard the Hadith of the Two Weighty things?

Yazid bin Haiyan reported:
I went along with Husain bin Sabrah and 'Amr bin Muslim to Zaid bin Arqam (May Allah be pleased with them) and, as we sat by his side, Husain said to him, "Zaid, you acquired great merits, you saw Messenger of Allah (ﷺ), listened to him talking, fought by his side in (different) battles, and offered Salat (prayer) behind him. Zaid, you have indeed earned great merits. Could you narrate to us what you heard from Messenger of Allah (ﷺ)?" Zaid said, "By Allah! I have grown old and have almost spent up my age and I have forgotten some of the things which I remembered in connection with Messenger of Allah (ﷺ), so accept what I narrate to you, do not compel me to narrate what I fail to narrate". He then said, "One day Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) stood up to deliver a Khutbah at a watering place known as Khumm between Makkah and Al-Madinah. He praised Allah, extolled Him, and exhorted (us) and said, 'Amma Ba'du. O people, I am a human being. I am about to receive a messenger (the angel of death) from my Rubb and I will respond to Allah's Call, but I am leaving with you two weighty things: the first is the Book of Allah, in which there is right guidance and light, so hold fast to the Book of Allah and adhere to it.' He exhorted (us to hold fast) to the Book of Allah and then said, 'The second is the members of my household, I remind you (to be kind) to the members of my family. I remind you (to be kind) to the members of my family. Husain said to Zaid, "Who are the members of his household, O Zaid? Aren't his wives the members of his family?" Thereupon Zaid said, "His wives are the members of his family. (But here) the members of his family are those for whom Zakat is forbidden". He asked, "Who are they?" Zaid said, "Ali and the offspring of 'Ali, 'Aqil and the offspring of 'Aqil and the offspring of Ja'far and the offspring of 'Abbas." Husain asked, "For all of them the acceptance of Zakat is forbidden?" Zaid (May Allah be pleased with him) said, "Yes".
Riyad as-Salihin » The Book of Miscellany
Book 1, Hadith 346

So find the group that loves the Quran and the Ahlulbayt the most and you will have your answer.

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salam brother,

 

Every human who claim to be muslim must love prophet muhammad(pbuh) and his family.. praying for Prophet muhammad and his family is included and obligatory in namaz. 

praying for sahaba is not there in namaz.        so   we should love some sahaba and hate other sahaba.       ?

why would some someone hate some sahaba and love some sahaba.

disagreements over zakat,people affairs(land,law,tribe,money distribution ,jihad etc), government policy,etc

if caliph does something which upset some tribe leaders ,tribal leaders blame that caliph is stupid,idiot,       unfit,not the chosen one,not the guided one and finally tribal leaders go n  tell their citizen(subjects) of their land that this caliph has gone away from islam,corrupt,greedy etc..Same thing is happening in this world now also(foreign policy of usa- for example)

 

 

i like ali(pbuh) cousin of prophet muhammad(pbuh), i like hasan(pbuh),husayn(pbuh) . i pray to god(namaz) to bless prophet muhammad(pbuh) and his family also prophet ibrahim(pbuh) and his family everytime.

im gonna name my sons ali,hasan,husayn ,ibrahim etc .

Now Prophet Had friends who are not really his true  friends ...                       ?  for 23 years he was with sahaba (friends)who are really enemies of god.

.Prophet muhammad din´t have the capacity to distinguish who is believer and enemy of god   ?

Prophet muhammad dint know people who is pretending to be a good human being for 23 years  

what about Archangel gabriel ? Archangel gabriel dint say anything about the corrupted sahaba to prophet muhammad(pbuh)

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21 minutes ago, reasoner said:

salam brother,

Every human who claim to be muslim must love prophet muhammad(pbuh) and his family.. praying for Prophet muhammad and his family is included and obligatory in namaz. 

i like ali(pbuh) cousin of prophet muhammad(pbuh), i like hasan(pbuh),husayn(pbuh) . i pray to god(namaz) to bless prophet muhammad (pbuh) and his family also prophet ibrahim (pbuh) and his family everytime.ihing about the corrupted sahaba to prophet muhammad(pbuh)

I have simple answer from the quran that asks us to follow the religion of Ibrahim to all Muslims. 

The concepts and belives  of the religion of ibrahim AS, are given in quran and hadiths elaborate it further. What does quran tells us about the religion of Ibrahim that we should follow, you may look at the given link for it

Wassalam

Edited by skamran110

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37 minutes ago, reasoner said:

Now Prophet Had friends who are not really his true  friends ...  ? for 23 years he was with sahaba (friends)who are really enemies of god.

.Prophet muhammad din´t have the capacity to distinguish who is believer and enemy of god   ?

Prophet muhammad dint know people who is pretending to be a good human being for 23 years  

what about Archangel gabriel ? Archangel gabriel dint say anything about the corrupted sahaba to prophet muhammad(pbuh)

The quran mentions many examples and hadith also clarify that all the companions of the prophets  are not  free from sins. Exceptions are there for righteous ones. You may look at the link given below for this topic.

Regards

Edited by skamran110

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salam brother,

My parents and relatives love quran ,verified hadeeth´s and they also love prophet muhammad(pbhu) and his family.we     remember them in namaz.. but do they implement the message received  it in day to day basis  .. ...basic sins (pride,ego,jealously,greed,lust,sloth,anger) ..........No !!.   i also do some of these sin without knowledge.  So my question is  - is  Loving More important than Implementation of the message. . Muslims Love the Message Given by Quran and verified hadeeth (2 or more people,verification)  but what about implementation ,,practising the message

,loving is great, publicize your love for family of prophet muhammad(pbuh) in tv ,internet,mosque,newspaper,mass gathering  etc   also great .

What else can we do to prophet muhammad´s family  ?

do you Love All descendents(bloodline) of prophet Muhammad (pbuh) or selective few.   

if you love only selectively(descendents)(is it pure bloodline ?) , then there is no logic . .

Adolf hitler loved aryan race only(selective choosing)...  not the entire human race. .  why ? either he believed in wrong principles or he wanted to be politically powerful ruler ..alienating the minoriry by gaining support of the masses through basic human feelings and emotions(skin race,religion,white supremacy,sect,etc)

same thing is narendra modi is doing in india now...

 

 

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48 minutes ago, reasoner said:

salam brother,

 So my question is  - is  Loving More important than Implementation of the message. . Muslims Love the Message Given by Quran and verified hadeeth (2 or more people,verification)  but what about implementation ,,practising the message

1.  The quran instructs us to follow the Prophet on many occasions, like:

Say [O Prophet]: "If you love God, follow me, [and] God will love you and forgive you your sins; for God is much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace."  (3:31)

2. Say, [O Muhammad], "I do not ask you for this message any payment [but] only good will through kinship." And whoever commits a good deed - We will increase for him good therein. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Appreciative. (42:23)

3.   Verily Allah intends to keep off from you every kind of uncleanness O' People of the House (Ahlul-Bayt), and purify you with a perfect purification". (Quran, the last sentence of Verse 33:33)

4.  The prophet has already  mentioned on many occasions to follow the two weighty things, 

4.   My last post about the religion of Ibrahim mentions quite clearly that Ahl albayat from the Pure progeny of the prophet include  those  names. 

48 minutes ago, reasoner said:

What else can we do to prophet muhammad´s family  ?

do you Love All descendents(bloodline) of prophet Muhammad (pbuh) or selective few.   

if you love only selectively(descendents)(is it pure bloodline ?) , then there is no logic . .

We are  to obey those members of  pure progeny of the  prophet as described in many traditions of the prophet  and the  verses of the quran.

The religion has been  sent from Allah swt through his messengers and the last prophet has informed us to follow quran and Ahl albayat. They include 12 leaders / imams / caliphs the first one is Imam Ali and the last ie 12th is Al Mahdi. we do not have our own choice in the religion.

i have explained  in detail about it for the Religion of Ibrahim that should be followed by all Muslims. 

Wasalam

Edited by skamran110

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Salam brothers n sisters ,

Any man who  did not  commit mistakes is not wise. cannot be wise.These mistakes can be physical(visible)    

or can be mental(not visible) permutations n combinations,probability,hypothesizing,trial n error all happening in the brain  .

eg: Has any Man done math without doing mistakes..it´s IMPOSSIBLE.

Total number of prophets 124,000 in quran.

All this people achieved prophethood in late 20´s or more . Why  ?  Becuz there is high probability  that people achieve wisdom during 30´s or  40´s or 50´s  etc..    10 year old boy or 18 year old man cannot have   wisdom ,its a Myth.

Only Jesus Was born Prophet ,But he had holy spirit guiding him to wisdom ,all other prophets had to get   wisdom as any ordinary man would get wisdom.  Even after prophet wisdom ,prophet were guided by god  until death.So that prophets after prophethood live out their lives without doing mistakes ,minor sins. . Prophets are not robots.Why god kept on guiding prophets even after prophethood through angels becuz if god stopped guiding, then enemies of god will try every trick to make people believe that  prophet is doing black magic. Then Life of prophet will come in danger.

Are prophets highly advanced robots ? incapable of committing small mistakes even mentally..

Are prophets before attaining Prophethood  highly advanced robots ? incapable of committing small mistakes even mentally..

if prophets are indeed robots they won´t be victims of Black Magic. They don´t even need God becuz they cant do anything wrong or make mistakes etc

if prophets before attaining prophethood have a chance of committing small mistakes  then what about we  ordinary humans(including sahaba,family members of prophet muhammed(pbuh),Pope(vatican city),imam etc...

Pope - Forget the word ´POPE¨ he is actually their temporary false acting prophet until jesus comes. who appointed  POPE  -------- > jesus did .......right     ?

 

Nobody is 100% perfect. Nothing is 100% perfect  Except  Allah Taala
 

 

 

 

Edited by reasoner
wrong sentences

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Salam brother,

As i started this topic, i clearly mentioned ..No redirecting to other pages or links. if you want to reply ,             understand the message you are redirecting that specific page and  type your own words  .

 

Type your words or copy two or 3 sentences which you find necessary or copy hadith and explain that hadith yourself in simple english understood by all. .dont redirect me to million paragraphs (pun intended) (LOL)

 

if you can't explain it simply,  then you didn´t  understand it well enough -  Albert Einstein.

 

good night

 

 

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4 hours ago, reasoner said:

why would some someone hate some sahaba and love some sahaba.

disagreements over zakat,people affairs(land,law,tribe,money distribution ,jihad etc), government policy,etc

if caliph does something which upset some tribe leaders ,tribal leaders blame that caliph is stupid,idiot,       unfit,not the chosen one,not the guided one and finally tribal leaders go n  tell their citizen(subjects) of their land that this caliph has gone away from islam,corrupt,greedy etc..Same thing is happening in this world now also(foreign policy of usa- for example)

 

 

i like ali(pbuh) cousin of prophet muhammad(pbuh), i like hasan(pbuh),husayn(pbuh) . i pray to god(namaz) to bless prophet muhammad(pbuh) and his family also prophet ibrahim(pbuh) and his family everytime.

im gonna name my sons ali,hasan,husayn ,ibrahim etc .

Now Prophet Had friends who are not really his true  friends ...                       ?  for 23 years he was with sahaba (friends)who are really enemies of god.

.Prophet muhammad din´t have the capacity to distinguish who is believer and enemy of god   ?

Prophet muhammad dint know people who is pretending to be a good human being for 23 years  

what about Archangel gabriel ? Archangel gabriel dint say anything about the corrupted sahaba to prophet muhammad(pbuh)

So let's investigate this love you have for the Ahlulbayt.

Part of love is that you want to be close to the people you love and at the same time you want to distance yourself from the people who oppress your loved ones. So now, we love the sahaba that stuck with the Ahlulbayt during trying times and at the same time, we distance ourselves from those sahaba who oppressed or gave support to the oppressors.

That is love; everything else is just hypocrisy.

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Yeah I noticed a same comment over and over again-- It's sad. I feel like he wants to learn but there is one thing he keeps ignoring -- hadith thaqalayn. He has not mentioned it once, and throughout the comments the brothers here reiterated it numerous times.

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2 hours ago, Vestige said:

W/s

@reasoner

What exactly is it you're trying to ask? Could you put it in a single clear sentence? Thanks.

 

Nothing because he is wondering in circles of his own conjectures. that he has been repeating with expectation that no one should answer him on his conjectures except like a good kid  in one or two lines of acceptance of these conjectures. LOL

 

Edited by skamran110

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On 6/11/2016 at 0:17 AM, reasoner said:

Salam brothers n sisters ,

Any man who  did not  commit mistakes is not wise. cannot be wise.These mistakes can be physical(visible)    

or can be mental(not visible) permutations n combinations,probability,hypothesizing,trial n error all happening in the brain  .

eg: Has any Man done math without doing mistakes..it´s IMPOSSIBLE.

Total number of prophets 124,000 in quran.

All this people achieved prophethood in late 20´s or more . Why  ?  Becuz there is high probability  that people achieve wisdom during 30´s or  40´s or 50´s  etc..    10 year old boy or 18 year old man cannot have   wisdom ,its a Myth.

Only Jesus Was born Prophet ,But he had holy spirit guiding him to wisdom ,all other prophets had to get   wisdom as any ordinary man would get wisdom.  Even after prophet wisdom ,prophet were guided by god  until death.So that prophets after prophethood live out their lives without doing mistakes ,minor sins. . Prophets are not robots.Why god kept on guiding prophets even after prophethood through angels becuz if god stopped guiding, then enemies of god will try every trick to make people believe that  prophet is doing black magic. Then Life of prophet will come in danger.

Are prophets highly advanced robots ? incapable of committing small mistakes even mentally..

Are prophets before attaining Prophethood  highly advanced robots ? incapable of committing small mistakes even mentally..

if prophets are indeed robots they won´t be victims of Black Magic. They don´t even need God becuz they cant do anything wrong or make mistakes etc

if prophets before attaining prophethood have a chance of committing small mistakes  then what about we  ordinary humans(including sahaba,family members of prophet muhammed(pbuh),Pope(vatican city),imam etc...

Nobody is 100% perfect. Nothing is 100% perfect  Except  Allah Taala

Salam my dear brother

Since you are an engineer this shows that your brain should work. This is very good. Wisdom is itself the least and at the same time many things we need.

Infallibility is a relative concept. Allah is the most perfect essence. Allah is existence, everything. In a sense that everything is emanated from Allah. Everything is the manifestation of Allah. Allah is one but not numerically one that one can say two ! Allah is the creator of time and place and he knows everything.

Allah is the wisest and he is the source of wisdom so he chooses certain reliable individuals among mankind and he helps them to remain far from not only sins but even mistakes otherwise they may misguide people instead of guiding. So they are infallible relative to us. And all of us are potentially able to get near such infallibility. Since we are all humans and have only one God.

There is no one worshiping progeny of Muhammad PBUH rather we believe those who are from his family and they are oppressors and ruining reputation of Islam and Ahlul Bait they will be punished twice and harder in the hell !

Rationally humanity is after knowledge. And those who are linked to the source of knowledge (Allah) they see the universe differently. Muhammad PBUH, Ali, Hassan, Hussain, ... , Baqir, Sadiq, ..... these are all the fountains linked to the source of knowledge and Allah himself has appointed them. While some other Sahabies (specifically Umar) did not let Rasulullah to testate and they said Quran is enough. Exactly all the predicament started there. When they tried to extinguish the beams of light and interpreters of Quran.  

Allah is infinity. What is infinity ? It is solely subjective. For single precision floating point, infinity means something and for double precision floating point, infinity means something else. Our knowledge and perception about Allah and existence is not equal. Moreover according to single precision floating point, double precision floating point is itself an infinity (infallible) !

 

  

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On 6/10/2016 at 9:50 PM, reasoner said:

salam brother,

Now Prophet Had friends who are not really his true  friends ...                       ?  for 23 years he was with sahaba (friends)who are really enemies of god.

.Prophet muhammad din´t have the capacity to distinguish who is believer and enemy of god   ?

Prophet muhammad dint know people who is pretending to be a good human being for 23 years  

what about Archangel gabriel ? Archangel gabriel dint say anything about the corrupted sahaba to prophet muhammad(pbuh)

Salam,

The problem with us Muslims is that we don't read the Holy Quran. And, we are tangled into hadiths, hadiths, hadith....

Your postings show that you have not read the Holy Quran let alone reflected, questioned, studied and so forth. Where in the Holy Quran it mentions about 124.000 prophets.

And, if you had read the Holy Quran, you would have known the stories of Moses' Shahaba. You would have known about them building a Golden Calf, murdering a man and then everyone claiming responsibility and then a very special COW was sacrificed, and so on and so on.

Read the Holy Quran and Reflect on it.

BTW, according to a Sunni Saudi Ulema, there is no such words called, "Shahaba" in Holy Quran. Therefore, we should leave the worship of Shahaba alone. However, Holy Quran mentions a very special family.

 

 

Edited by BornShia

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On 6/10/2016 at 10:34 PM, reasoner said:

salam brother,

What else can we do to prophet muhammad´s family  ?

do you Love All descendents(bloodline) of prophet Muhammad (pbuh) or selective few.   

if you love only selectively(descendents)(is it pure bloodline ?) , then there is no logic . .

Adolf hitler loved aryan race only(selective choosing)...  not the entire human race. .  why ?

 

Again shows that you have not read the Holy Quran:

002.214 أَمْ حَسِبْتُمْ أَنْ تَدْخُلُوا الْجَنَّةَ وَلَمَّا يَأْتِكُمْ مَثَلُ الَّذِينَ خَلَوْا مِنْ قَبْلِكُمْ مَسَّتْهُمُ الْبَأْسَاءُ وَالضَّرَّاءُ وَزُلْزِلُوا حَتَّى يَقُولَ الرَّسُولُ وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا مَعَهُ مَتَى نَصْرُ اللَّهِ أَلا إِنَّ نَصْرَ اللَّهِ قَرِيبٌ


003.031 قُلْ إِنْ كُنْتُمْ تُحِبُّونَ اللَّهَ فَاتَّبِعُونِي يُحْبِبْكُمُ اللَّهُ وَيَغْفِرْ لَكُمْ ذُنُوبَكُمْ وَاللَّهُ غَفُورٌ رَحِيمٌ

003.032 قُلْ أَطِيعُوا اللَّهَ وَالرَّسُولَ فَإِنْ تَوَلَّوْا فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ لا يُحِبُّ الْكَافِرِينَ

003.033 إِنَّ اللَّهَ اصْطَفَى آدَمَ وَنُوحًا وَآلَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَآلَ عِمْرَانَ عَلَى الْعَالَمِينَ

003.034 ذُرِّيَّةً بَعْضُهَا مِنْ بَعْضٍ وَاللَّهُ سَمِيعٌ عَلِيمٌ

 

If you don't know Arabic, then I am sure that you will compare the above verses with different translations.

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Wa'alaykum as'salam

It looks my answer is not much fit to the main issue, but i still wanted to post.

Judging opposite by your standard/reason, opposite will be wrong forever.

This is not a scientific issue to prove using theories, Everyone has their reason to explain himself is following the right/true path, When you found out who is "right", surly opposite will be unhappy and do not satisfy, So my opinion is better to stop finding "which is right or wrong" and mind of your religion/sect, do good deeds as your religion/sect require, learn to bear different views. None of us is immortal, you know.

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On 6/10/2016 at 2:48 AM, reasoner said:

assalamualaikum brothers n sisters,

Ashadu an la ilaha illa-llah, wa ashadu anna Muhammadun Aabduhu wa rasuluh.. . ,

im a born muslim.. im from india. .some hindu people who are courageous, do speculative thinking,driven by common sense  not by emotions,feelings,anger,rage,love etc . .   these kind of people  use logic.They are not proud of their forefathers or ancestry,they dont believe in fairy tales.They argue with their parents and eventually they either become atheist or become   muslim .

my question   is -people from every major religion go through some kind of test..These people from hindu religion will think which god is correct - murugan or vishnu or ram etc..

similarly in buddhism - they will have some kind of test. And in christianity, they believe prophet jesus as god . .hindus have some test which will test their faith , jews have some test which will test their faith, buddhist have some test which will test their faith, christians have some tests which will test their faith

Now what kind of ´Test´ is there for muslims?.... we believe prophet muhammad(saw) as the last prophet and islam is the final and correct religion...  are we special ? we ´muslim´ don´t have to go through any exams in this life ? so  i don´t  have to use my speculative thinking becuz i know islam is correct...right ?    

Sunni vs  Shia  ?

How to find out which is correct .

one way to find out is- finding ´errors´.

please post- Details on Imam Mahdi ,return of Prophet jesus and Dajjal According to both shia and sunni sources

if there are 90% errors in sunni or shia ,then i will know who is wrong n who is right.

then in day of judgement - standing before god , i can atleast say  i tried.

please dont redirect me to other topic or pages.

 

all i can say to you is dont chose any sect just be a muslim who love all the sahaba and ahul albayt because they are either prophet Mohammad(pbuh) friends or family and no one of them should be hated 

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On 6/10/2016 at 4:18 AM, reasoner said:

....

please post- Details on Imam Mahdi ,return of Prophet jesus and Dajjal According to both shia and sunni sources

if there are 90% errors in sunni or shia ,then i will know who is wrong n who is right.

then in day of judgement - standing before god , i can atleast say  i tried.

please dont redirect me to other topic or pages.

 

I shortly advice that belief of Hazrat Mahdi and his zuhur is common in shia nad sunni.

different is that shia say who is and indicate hazrat mahdi as son of Hazrat hasan askari, but sunni do not indicate so.

Many articles in sunni books has written by sunni scholars that hazrat Mahdi is son of hazrat hasan askari unfortunately summis don't accept their scholars written too.

 

 

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On 6/14/2016 at 10:13 PM, BornShia said:

Salam,

The problem with us Muslims is that we don't read the Holy Quran. And, we are tangled into hadiths, hadiths, hadith....

Your postings show that you have not read the Holy Quran let alone reflected, questioned, studied and so forth. Where in the Holy Quran it mentions about 124.000 prophets.

And, if you had read the Holy Quran, you would have known the stories of Moses' Shahaba. You would have known about them building a Golden Calf, murdering a man and then everyone claiming responsibility and then a very special COW was sacrificed, and so on and so on.

Read the Holy Quran and Reflect on it.

BTW, according to a Sunni Saudi Ulema, there is no such words called, "Shahaba" in Holy Quran. Therefore, we should leave the worship of Shahaba alone. However, Holy Quran mentions a very special family.

 

 

salam brother,

you are comparing moses sahaba with prophet muhammad(pbuh) sahaba . 

its like comparing old crt tv with led smart tv(every generation is getting smarter).

So moses sahaba worshipped golden calf(they were stupid),so you are saying that prophet muhammad´s  Sahaba is also like that      ?
No muslim is worshipping sahaba. we dont even worship  Prophet muhammad(pbuh).

 

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15 hours ago, reasoner said:

salam brother,

you are comparing moses sahaba with prophet muhammad(pbuh) sahaba . 

its like comparing old crt tv with led smart tv(every generation is getting smarter).

So moses sahaba worshipped golden calf(they were stupid),so you are saying that prophet muhammad´s  Sahaba is also like that      ?
No muslim is worshipping sahaba. we dont even worship  Prophet muhammad(pbuh).

 

Do you really think that Quran is vain to tell you just some useless stories ?!

You mean Quran is more useless than your textbooks in college !? Quran is full of the stories of Israel tribe. The names Moses, Jesus, Mary and ... are repeated far far more than many other things. So you mean Quran is telling you some vain stories. Something that you can not learn from it and something that you can not infer your needed facts from it and it does not suffice your nowadays needs.

 

So what ?! Is Quran vain or you are closing your eyes on the facts ?

Sahabies disputed with each other, fought with each other and killed each other, cursed each other and you expect that we believe all of them were right ?! Is not blindly obeying someone as if worshipping him. 

 

Yes some of the Sahabies of Rasulullah did not worship calf but they did disobey their own prophet and disrespected him even when Rasulullah himself was alive let alone after his demise. Is it really hard to infer general laws from Quran. That Sahabies of Rasulullah are not infallible and obeying them may misguide us.

 

Shias, Sunnies, Salafies, Wahhabies, .... are all part of Ummah. 72 sects or even more are all parts of this Ummah. Innovations and confusions are every where. There is one Quran with hundreds interpretations.

What kind of a perfect religion is this ? Where are those mysterious 12 caliphs and leaders mentioned in the hadith books of Muslims ?!

This religion is not perfect unless with the existence of a rightly guided imam and leader who knows the secrets of Quran and is free from error in his guiding.
Only Mahdi can solve these disasters permanently and perfectly. And if Muslims had gathered around those rightly guided leaders (Ali, Hassan, Hussain, ....) whom Allah appointed them and willed they remained free from error and sins and had not left them alone in front of cruel dictators now Muslims would not need to wait for their last hope, Mahdi !    

 

Edited by maes

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salam brothers n sisters,

So Prophet left behind quran - ok

what about hadeeth´s - ?

did prophet told his people to completely ignore half of hadeeth if you had disputes.    ?

my father is salesman/marketing. he tell lies to people to further business.but when it comes to love for his children or his wife ,you wont see a better father or a husband.   if im suffering from fever ,he will drag me to hospital even at 3 am..,

similarly when people is under oath(God) in 630 A.D approx who saw miracles done by Prophet muhammad (pbuh) , No matter how pathological liar that person may be ,There is high probability he will tell the truth in those times.  To Decrease the chance of it being unreliable, its re-verified.  So stop saying its sunni hadeeth  or shia Hadith  etc ....

Then Ahlulbayt or sahaba  ?

you want one family to rule the muslim ummah    like the roman empire or british monarchy or like all the royal families of every country in 1000 A.D upto 1940s A.D. .

You want Ahlulbayt to rule for eternity like saudi royal family.    ?   This time you are saying that God chose  certain  members of  Ahlulbayt to rule until imam mahdi returns... So these Imams after  husayn To imam mahdi    , are they completely useless, They are simply sitting in their high chair waiting for imam mahdi like the rest of ordinary muslims around the world to solve problems incurred by mankind. ..You want muslims to believe that imam of shia are special than    hazarat of other sect ..  is pope(vatican city) and imams of shia-  similar in their ideology. .  . Are imams now have become Politicians too ? i dont know or do they collaborate with politicians .

Politics  is not necessaary for islam.. islam is truth . you dont have to lie ,for islam to stay intact  or grow

islam is the fastest growing religion inspite of all negative news abt islam  ...why    becuz its the truth ..it doesn´t need publicity. Truth will stand out clear as day.

if you are in politics ,then  you are a pathological liar, if you are a pathological liar, you are not a muslim . . Simple logic

if certain member of Ahlulbayt is fit enough to rule the muslim ummah ,nobody will have any objection in 21 century. if nobody is fit from Ahlulbayt at any given time, we have to look at people outside Ahlulbayt. eg:(twelver shia vs fiver shia)

If Shia say That Ahlulbayt are the true successors for the caliphate citing sources from quran ,then every    believer from all sect  will clearly be able to see Ahlulbayt are real kings.

Just give me Surah n Verse number .i have with me yusuf ali translation (quran).  if You cite Shia hadeeth, nobody is gonna believe. . If you are the chosen people like the israelites         convince other sects in islam,it´s your duty as the chosen people(but you constantly propagate hate towards sahaba and you want to take revenge on other sects when mahdi comes). . if more than  half sects of islam concur with your point ,then muslim ummah will have golden period again and the  judeo-christians will [Edited Out] their pants again.

 

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18 hours ago, reasoner said:

Then Ahlulbayt or sahaba  ?

you want one family to rule the muslim ummah    like the roman empire or british monarchy or like all the royal families of every country in 1000 A.D upto 1940s A.D.

Salam brother,

You and I are not the choosers and the deciders, Allah chooses and decides. This is the history of monotheistic religions. It is odd that people read Quran but miss these points ! After Abraham leaders emerged after leaders. Prophets after prophets. All of them were from certain families.

Or do they envy people for the Bounty Allah has given them? We gave the family of Abraham the Book and Wisdom, and a great kingdom.  (Quran 4:54)

Allah chose Adam and Noah, the house of Abraham and the house of Imran above all worlds. (Quran 3:33)

...... O family of the house (Ahlul Bait of Muhammad, Fatima, Ali, Hassan, Hussain) , Allah only wishes to distance fault from you, and to cleanse you, and to purify you abundantly. (Quran 33:33)

 

Finally this is only Allah who guides.

...... Allah guides to his light whom he will. Allah strikes parables for people. Allah has knowledge of all things. (Quran 24:35)

 

Who are the chosen people whom Allah has chosen and they are the inheritors of Quran and they are foremost in good deeds as mentioned by the following verse !?

""" then we have given the book for inheritance to such of our servants as we have chosen: but there are among them some who wrong their own souls; some who follow a middle course; and some who are, by Allah's leave, foremost in good deeds; that is the highest grace. (Quran 35:32) """

Are they Abubakr and Umar who attacked home of Fatima ? Are they Uthman that he put many innovations and outraged Sahabies, they protested and he was killed suddenly ! Are they Muawiah who would drink wine and he attacked Ali and he would insult and curse Ali for many years on pulpits and he assassinated Hassan and broke his treaty with Hassan and appointed Yazid as his successor ! Are they Yazid who beheaded the best of youth of heaven Hussain !?

Are they Umul Mumenin Aisha who disobeyed Quran and Rasulullah and she lead a war against Ali. 

Who are the chosen ones who are foremost in good deeds. Have not reached the time that you open you eyes !

Of course we do respect the righteous Sahabies and use their hadithes in fact the reasons of our beliefs are mentioned in the books of Ahlul Sunnah with Sahih hadithes. 

18 hours ago, reasoner said:

 if You cite Shia hadeeth, nobody is gonna believe. . If you are the chosen people like the israelites         convince other sects in islam,it´s your duty as the chosen people(but you constantly propagate hate towards sahaba and you want to take revenge on other sects when mahdi comes). . if more than  half sects of islam concur with your point ,then muslim ummah will have golden period again and the  judeo-christians will [Edited Out] their pants again.

Shia does not prove anything from it's own sources rather shows the reasons of his beliefs from books of Ahlul Sunnah themselves maybe Allah guides them to see the truths in their own books and Quran.

Who has said that a Shia is the chosen people in a sense that Jews believe ! Shia is not a tag or claim. There may be many ignorant and corrupt people who may claim to be Shia. But a true Shia is the follower of the chosen leaders of this Ummah. Those leaders who are the most knowledgeable individuals among Ummah and they are the main and true interpretors of Quran and they are free from sins and errors. A true Shia of Ali (there is a hadith in the books of Ahlul Sunnah that Ali and his Shias (followers) are prosperous !) is not after revenging from other Muslims rather he is after unity and benefits of Ummah. He does not insult rather he says the truths whether people agree or not it is on their own. Still if they return their backs on the truths a Shia of Ali still cooperates with them for the sake of Islam and unity. The same as how Ali and his progeny tried to protect Islam despite all the oppressions some of Sahabies made against them and the truths.

A true Shia is the follower of the twelve rightly guided imams and caliphs mentioned in the hadith books, whom some of those Sahabies did not let Rasulullah to write down their names in his testament and they disobeyed and disrespected him even when he (PBUH) was alive, however Rasulullah had mentioned the truths orally several times. Finally Mahdi will return and Jesus will pray behind him. These are also mentioned in the books of Ahlul Sunnah.

 

 

Edited by maes

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On 6/11/2016 at 0:33 AM, skamran110 said:

AssalamAlaikum Brother,   @skamran110   @shiaman14

4.  The prophet has already  mentioned on many occasions to follow the two weighty things, 

Two weighty things hadith.  - quran and household of prophet muhammad(pbuh)

Whoever follows only quran is not following islam.    it must be  followed with hadeeth n sunnah

so  by logic ----> follow quran(with hadeeth(with sunnah)  and love  household of prophet muhammad(pbuh)
Which hadeeth to follow  ?

 

 

Edited by reasoner
forgot to tag

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On 6/10/2016 at 11:53 PM, skamran110 said:

AssalamAlaikum brothers  n sisters ,  @skamran110  

 

The quran mentions many examples and hadith also clarify that all the companions of the prophets  are not  free from sins. Exceptions are there for righteous ones. You may look at the link given below for this topic.

 

companions Who lived with  prophet muhammad(pbuh) for 23 years--> prone to make small sins -  ok

But What about very first followers of shia faith(who never lived with prophet muhammad(pbuh)    - are they prone to make small sins  according to you  ?

For eg:   Any man who  did not  commit mistakes(or small sins) is not wise. cannot be wise.    These mistakes can be physical(visible)    

or can be mental(not visible) permutations n combinations,probability,hypothesizing,trial n error all    happening in the brain  .

eg: Has any Scientist  done math without doing mistakes..it´s IMPOSSIBLE.

Even Prophets  have committed very very small  sins before they got prophethood.

But  after committing it,they  become aware of it through Self-introspection ,then they repent and make amends for it. But after prophethood ,Allah (swt) guides them through Angels to be away from sins.

:)

 

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On 6/10/2016 at 10:20 PM, reasoner said:

salam brother,

 

Every human who claim to be muslim must love prophet muhammad(pbuh) and his family.. praying for Prophet muhammad and his family is included and obligatory in namaz. 

praying for sahaba is not there in namaz.        so   we should love some sahaba and hate other sahaba.       ?

why would some someone hate some sahaba and love some sahaba.

disagreements over zakat,people affairs(land,law,tribe,money distribution ,jihad etc), government policy,etc

if caliph does something which upset some tribe leaders ,tribal leaders blame that caliph is stupid,idiot,       unfit,not the chosen one,not the guided one and finally tribal leaders go n  tell their citizen(subjects) of their land that this caliph has gone away from islam,corrupt,greedy etc..Same thing is happening in this world now also(foreign policy of usa- for example)

 

 

i like ali(pbuh) cousin of prophet muhammad(pbuh), i like hasan(pbuh),husayn(pbuh) . i pray to god(namaz) to bless prophet muhammad(pbuh) and his family also prophet ibrahim(pbuh) and his family everytime.

im gonna name my sons ali,hasan,husayn ,ibrahim etc .

Now Prophet Had friends who are not really his true  friends ...                       ?  for 23 years he was with sahaba (friends)who are really enemies of god.

.Prophet muhammad din´t have the capacity to distinguish who is believer and enemy of god   ?

Prophet muhammad dint know people who is pretending to be a good human being for 23 years  

what about Archangel gabriel ? Archangel gabriel dint say anything about the corrupted sahaba to prophet muhammad(pbuh)

Chapter Tawbaa verse 101:

1. Among the Desert-Arabs around you there are some hypocrites, and among the inhabitants of Medina too. They have become adamant in hypocrisy. You do not know them, but We know them. We will punish them twice; then they will be returned to a severe torment.

Hypocrites were always around prophet(PBUH) and holy Qur'an affirm that, how can we call all the Sahabba good people?

There are lot's if authentic hadis which mentions some of those people around prophet PBUH wanted to kill him by an assassination plan but Exalted God revealed to the prophet PBUH and saved him.

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13 hours ago, maes said:

Assalamalaikum Brothers n sisters,     @maes

A true Shia is the follower of the twelve rightly guided imams and caliphs mentioned in the hadith books, whom some of those Sahabies did not let Rasulullah to write down their names in his testament and they disobeyed and disrespected him even when he (PBUH) was alive,

however Rasulullah had mentioned the truths orally several times.

12 imams    -      ok

When prophet was in deathbed(632 A.D)

Ali(ra)    -    Was Alive

Hasan(ra)   -  Was Alive

Husayn(ra)  -  Was Alive

Ali ibn Husayn(ra)  -  not Born Yet

Muhammad ibn Ali(ra)  -  not born Yet

Jafar ibn Muhammad(ra)  -  not born yet

Musa ibn Jafar (ra)  -   not born yet

Ali ibn Musa (ra)  -  not born yet

Muhammad ibn Ali    -  not born yet

Ali ibn muhammad(ra)    -   not  born   yet 

Hasan ibn ali (ra)     -   not  born yet

Muhammad ibn al-Hasan (ra)  -   not born yet

 

So progeny of Ali(ra) and fatima(may Allah be pleased with her)

Ali  sons-----> hasan and husayn

After that Whose son becomes the fourth imam  ?   how to  decide  it   ?

is it the son of hasan(ra)   or   the son of  husayn(ra)  ?  is  it  the first born   ?  Why only the first born ?

i get shia 12ers  , But Why shia  5ers and Shia 7ers  ....So why these 3 groups had disputes over Imams.

If basic belief is correct,everything else will also be correct(more or less).  Only in shia islam , i find so many sub-sects(i know many are extinct now)   But still   If Basic  Faith is correct , Then there would have been  very less sub-sects inside shia  ...

 

 

Quote

 

 

 

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20 minutes ago, hadi313 said:

Chapter Tawbaa verse 101:    

1. Among the Desert-Arabs around you there are some hypocrites, and among the inhabitants of Medina too. They have become adamant in hypocrisy. You do not know them, but We know them. We will punish them twice; then they will be returned to a severe torment.

Hypocrites were always around prophet(PBUH) and holy Qur'an affirm that, how can we call all the Sahabba good people?

There are lot's if authentic hadis which mentions some of those people around prophet PBUH wanted to kill him by an assassination plan but Exalted God revealed to the prophet PBUH and saved him.

Assalamalaikum Brother,    @hadi313

-->if  prophet Muhammad(pbuh) was born as a persian  in tehran   ,  Then it  would have been like this

1. Among the Desert-Persians around you there are some hypocrites, and among the inhabitants of Tehran too. They have become adamant in hypocrisy. You do not know them, but We know them. We will punish them twice; then they will be returned to a severe torment.

Hypocrites were always around prophet(PBUH) and holy Qur'an affirm that, how can we call all the Sahabba good people?

There are lot's if authentic hadis which mentions some of those people around prophet PBUH wanted to kill him by an assassination plan but Exalted God revealed to the prophet PBUH and saved him.  :)

Edited by reasoner
missed tag

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What then?

Around prophet PBUH there were hypocrites, you call them all Sahabba and by this you want to give them a level of infallibility, because they were around prophet PBUH but this is not as simple as you think, being by prophet PBUH for a while , even a long time does not mean they were eager to Islam and prophet PBUH, clearly some of them had this mission from Jewish society to assassinate prophet PBUH and they tried over and over.

و السلام علی من اتبع الهدی

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