Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
Sign in to follow this  
JasmineAila

homosexual or bisexual

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

I am not a homophobic, nor sexist, but I believe that no one by birth are homo or bi. they tend to change due to their environment, up bringing, their life style. how do you think the proper and effective way to cope this issue nowadays? especially to those who don't involve themselves to the institution of religion?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very sensitive topic, so I hope the  upcoming comments are mindful and insightful.

On my own take, I like to think of it as this --- Yes, no one by birth is homo or bi. What you said about change in environment and lifestyles holds for many cases , and it is such a case that you find many of our religious scholars to make one single error. I'm led to believe that Christian scholars and pastors or priests have been better adapted to these situations and are now more mindful, but it is sad to say that in Islam a topic like this is not only taboo, but someone who is homo or bi is completely shunned by a community. This is the error. If you want to help someone in a situation like this, or to better understand how it works, how will anything be achieved if our own scholars completely remove them from the community? This may take a toll on a person, and its why I think many of the annual suicide counts in youth are people who were considered homo or bi. I don't have enough information to give you a brief detail, but to me it is logical--- they want help, so you give them help. They should be invited back into communities and taken special care for, understand where they are coming from, and in this case they will be able to find help if they are seeking it. It is not a phase in life -- it is a test from God. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I think is that homosexualtiy is a disease caused by social malfunctions in a society where sexual freedom is too much. In a society with too little sexual freedom people might turn to homosexual intercourse just to quench their thirst but they will never lose attraction to the other gender. In a society with too much sexual freedom, however, sexual sharpness of the opposite gender is blunted. Sexual intercourses become duller everyday to the point that some of the sexually weak people will think that they never had an attraction toward the opposite gender. Other people will look for other ways to stimulate themselves, such as watching porn, engaging in forbidden sexual relationships and prostitution.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

well I agree that no one is born as anything not even heterosexual , you develop those stuff from your surrounds as you grow up , that explain Bi , cuz if you born with sexual preference then you would either be homo or hetero but to be both mean it's choice .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, DigitalUmmah said:

I do not believe this. 

I was in primary and high school with a naqvi sayed who was 100% gay from childhood. he had brothers and came from a regular two parent family with zero trauma etc that you could use to "pin the gay" on him.

when we were children all us boys would be playing football or bulldog, he would be playing dolls with the girls. in high school we went to a boys only high school and you can imagine how badly he was bullied, living in the mid/ late 1990's in that sort of environment. there were two groups hated most in our posh, old fashioned grammar school - the jews and the gays. if you were in either of these subsets your life was pretty much hell from both students and teachers every single day of your school life. 

he couldnt help being soft and feminine, no matter how hard me and the other shias in the school tried to toughen him up. the guy is a full blown cross dressing ladyboy now, "married" to a white guy. hes an air hostess now and hasnt spoken to me for 10+ years, I only know whats going on in his life through our mutual friends. none of us knew that being gay was actually real, we all thought it was just an insult to call someone who is soft. 

I truly believe that this is caused by genetics, somehow, some way. my personal theory is that there is some sort of hormone imbalance which causes an excess of feminine hormones to be released instead of masculine ones. the link between levels of certain hormones and attraction to men has already been established in women. 

how to deal with it? by minding our own business. it doesn't become an issue for us until 5 just witnesses catch them in the act of sodomy. since its highly unlikely for this to ever happen to any of us, we should just treat them like everyone else with respect and politeness and focus on our own shortcomings. 

Interesting and revealing.....

One of my very close friends is a homosexual (in secrecy). Once when I was trying to research this topic, I requested him to shed more light on his upbringing and environment. He did mention that he was sexually abused in childhood and lived a life of loneliness (distanced from female members of society). The problem is that this is only an isolated example (reliable) and I would need more data to be reasonably convinced that homosexual tendencies are due to environment, up bringing, abuse or life style. Therefore, I am also left with no choice but to give benefit of the doubt to the viewpoint that it may be by birth. But that just opens a can of worms. So this subject matter remains 'work in progress'. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I used to think for a very long time that homosexuality had to have been a tendency developed at birth. I always debated with my friends it was until recently I've been studying it a little more in depths, especially on a religious view, and I just realized maybe I wasn't right. If homosexuality is not accepted in the Quran ( the story of Prophet Lot and the destruction of his people ) and if anything in the bible, and we ourselves know at birth we are the most purest of people ( which is why there is no baby that goes to hell, or has any sins or any records of sins, up until at least an age where they understand what right and wrong is, and even then some say nothing is recored until at least 9-12, differing from male to females), how do we say that a baby is born gay? wouldnt a gay baby go to hell because it was going against what the quran wants. Not refuting but I sincerely want to know now, as this has been a view I held to be true a time ago ( that people were gay at birth ) . 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, DigitalUmmah said:

I do not believe this. 

I was in primary and high school with a naqvi sayed who was 100% gay from childhood. he had brothers and came from a regular two parent family with zero trauma etc that you could use to "pin the gay" on him.

when we were children all us boys would be playing football or bulldog, he would be playing dolls with the girls. in high school we went to a boys only high school and you can imagine how badly he was bullied, living in the mid/ late 1990's in that sort of environment. there were two groups hated most in our posh, old fashioned grammar school - the jews and the gays. if you were in either of these subsets your life was pretty much hell from both students and teachers every single day of your school life. 

he couldnt help being soft and feminine, no matter how hard me and the other shias in the school tried to toughen him up. the guy is a full blown cross dressing ladyboy now, "married" to a white guy. hes an air hostess now and hasnt spoken to me for 10+ years, I only know whats going on in his life through our mutual friends. none of us knew that being gay was actually real, we all thought it was just an insult to call someone who is soft. 

I truly believe that this is caused by genetics, somehow, some way. my personal theory is that there is some sort of hormone imbalance which causes an excess of feminine hormones to be released instead of masculine ones. the link between levels of certain hormones and attraction to men has already been established in women. 

how to deal with it? by minding our own business. it doesn't become an issue for us until 5 just witnesses catch them in the act of sodomy. since its highly unlikely for this to ever happen to any of us, we should just treat them like everyone else with respect and politeness and focus on our own shortcomings. 

Salam,

What you mentioned is true. We had this discussion with my mentor, and he explained in such situations ***if someone is born with it,*** has a genetic disorder passed on by the previous generation, and is not to be blamed.

There are also cases when a person is exposed to it in an environment.

So both possibilities exist. 

However in the case of such situation by birth, he mentioned that normally any new disease is a result of a certain sin, so this goes back to the previous generations that committed certain sins and the result of that is passed down in future generations and some one will show up with it.

Some inborn disease result in physical deformity some in mental / sexual imbalance .

These kind of people will not be held accountable and the starters of the sin and disease will be held accountable for who ever has caught this disorder.

Similar to any good acts that can continue as long as it exists , such as if a person publishes any religious content and as long as it is used by future generations the deceased person will benefit from the plus points.

One thing he mentioned though was the person must chose which gender they feel more inclined to internally and externally and should either dress according to that gender to be able to be differentiated from the other gender,or should have a sex change. You cannot choose to be a bi according to Islamic rules .

We do have other traits of the nafs which is passed down by previous generations like anger for example , and it could run in the family.

So both possibilities of being born with a dis- ease and being exposed to a dis- eased environment after birth and catching the dis- ease is possible.

The only ones who consciously commit sins out of full awareness and evil intentions will be held accountable .

But for those who are subject to a certain environment by force, once they become aware of their disorder should at least have a sincere intention to fix the issue even if he cannot fully resolve it himself due to the amount of time he was exposed to it

@Jafar moh

Edited by certainclarity

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2016/6/6 at 11:32 PM, JasmineAila said:

but I believe that no one by birth are homo or bi.

Actually, exposure to certain hormone -like chemicals during fetal stage can make someone to be homosexual according to pharmacological slip that comes inside box from manufacture for reproductive medicine drugs.

Edited by ema
typo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Neri123 said:

Even animals can be homosexual so I suppose it's not our topic to judge 

Animals do a lot of other things, like cannibalism and incest, that (currently anyway) society finds disgusting, so I don't think the argument that animals do it means much.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i accept homosexuality exist, Allah had set an example of people of Lot as an example for us to see their proof.

i believe if people have the desire of the sexual aspect of it, it could be a test from Allah to see their self control a test like anything else we human beings go through , the desire to kill, steal lie and commit sins.

its our duty as believers to half self control in order to please Allah, self control in important to be a true believer which is why we all struggle in a daily bases . We are in battle to win Allah's approval inshallah 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Haydar Husayn said:

Animals do a lot of other things, like cannibalism and incest, that (currently anyway) society finds disgusting, so I don't think the argument that animals do it means much.

This shows that these tendencies commonly exist in the natural world beyond manmade social environments.  Its not like a penguin for example, is sitting around watching TLC with some homosexual men redesigning a house.

 

On the topic though, physically, just by the nature of how we exist, there will be variations of human beings.  A person can be born with a third arm and a tail, so why would it be surprising to anyone that a person might be born with physical traits or hormones that may lead them to have interest in both sexes, or for a male to be born with female traits or vise versa?  If a male is born with internal female features, who would doubt the possibility that this could lead to attraction to other men?

Mankind over time has shaped society to only recognize 2 sexes and 2 genders, it has become somewhat of a taboo to be anything but these two.  But reality shows us that people come in all shapes and sizes, and hybrids of the two certainly exist, despite what society wants to believe.

I will say though, I couldnt see gays not having an influence on non gays in society.  Some people could consider becoming gay if it is acceptable in their society, At that point, you try to educate and support others the best you can., Beyond that, it becomes their choice/responsibility and falls into the hands of the The Lord.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Brothers and sisters, we forget the open enemy to humanity.  Satan makes you feel like you are a person you are not. And he tends to belittle the blessed aspect of you all the time to the extent you feel ashamed of it in front of the Fasiqeen.

If people don't think they have a choice in that matter, Satan can easily convince a person he is gay, by simple Waswas that he is capable of.  Just like he can excite us to sin, he can excite us with sexual feelings. But if we are on guard against Satan, we will realize it is him, and not us.

After a while, most people identify themselves with what Satan tells them they are, and they strive for his characteristic idealizing negative attributes over the blessed attributes.

When we are the mercy of the Waswas of Satan and believe everything he tells us who we are, then he can easily make us gay.

Waswas starts from childhood till adulthood. Kids these days, aren't prepared to deal with Satanic waswas. I believe during Imam Mahdi rule, no one will succumb to gay thoughts and become gay.

Adults are also over all not prepared to deal with waswas.

So we live in a society where everyone's "pride" is based on a identity that Satan has created, and has no reality to the truth.

This is while they are in opposition to their Lord.

Allah [swt] gave us ability to choose who we become.  All we have to do is have belief in him and his Messenger, over that of Satan and his forces.

We aren't what Satan tells us who we are. Never believe in that. For he belittles those closer to being Sadiqeen and heightens those who are closest to being Kathibeen.

We just need disbelieve in the Taghut and believe in God.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well i am not in a position how could tell you what Islam says about this. I used to make fun of gay people when i was a kid. Our and society says a man is supposed to be strong rough and tough "Boys dont cry" thing. I know someone, someone in my family who was very feminine. He is older than me like 10 12 years older. We used to make fun of him when we were kids but now i realize we were wrong. He was born that way he was always like that. His brothers used to make fun of him. I feel bad for him. He never got married he still lives with his mom. He could never do a decent job because nobody would hire him. Well he end up working in some day care center where he works with old people. 

 

I think we should just let them live and respect everyone. We are not to judge people. May Allah help them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 Asalam Alykum

Living in the states, and as many people have seen in the chaos I have expounded in unintentionally on these forums I have been brought up in chaotic environments. Along the road many gay people have raised me, let me live in their homes, allowed me to share my faith and even told me that they wanted to become Muslim. I think especially in western society men have repressed the ability to love each other so when they grow older the feeling of repression can express itself in romantic ways. I also think (feel open to disagree) every human being has a feminine nature and a masculine nature, and when a man is raised with out understanding himself fully to see the side of him that can nurture he will discover that feminine side of himself in dangerous ways.

 I know many Americans are raised without a fathers affection, naturally they would look for this. this could be twisted and misunderstood to say that a gay relationship is a good thing. I think they are human beings and many of them follow Islam in the best ways they know how by praying and showing love and kindness to people. Many of them hate the fact that they are gay more than most people actually hate them for being gay.

Edited by MuslimyMuslim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Satan said In the Holy Quran: "I will mislead them, and I will create in them false desires; I will order them to slit the ears of cattle, and to deface the (fair) nature created by Allah." Whoever, forsaking Allah, takes satan for a friend, hath of a surety suffered a loss that is manifest.

- The Holy Quran 4:119

image.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salam, sorry for the late response, i don’t open this site very often. I have read all the comments and i am so thankful for the eager and profound explanations.

For most of conservative Christians and Jews, homosexuals; bisexual acts are sinful and forbidden by their books (Berei[Edited Out] 19 in the Torah, Leviticus 18:22 in the Bible, Leviticus 20:13 in the Bible, Corinthians 6:9-10 in the Bible).

I do not find the exact and appropriate verse in Islam, but I think there are two big different main views (conventional and liberal). Those who usually reject it use the Qur'an in the verse (ayat) al A'raf:80-81 as a legitimation. In contrary, those who accept it use the verse (ayat) al Isra:84 “each works according to his manner (syakilatih) but your Lord is most knowing of who is best guided in way”, and al Maidah:8 "O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm for Allah, witnesses in justice, and do not let the hatred of a people prevent you from being just. Be just; that is nearer to righteousness. And fear Allah ; indeed, Allah is Acquainted with what you do". So much inequality, indignity and denial of basic human rights takes place in our world simply because people tend to view justice for others as not binding. However, without adhering to justice, it is impossible to think of dignity, unity or universality of humanity.

Buddhism implicitly concerns much about this case, yet avoiding such behavior is considered will free us up from anxiety and embarrassment that are caused by social rejection. The relation between men and women is a sacred thing and liable for hinduist as it is said in Manava Dharmasastra IX 96 that, "Prnja nartha striyah srstah samtarnartham ca manavah Tasmat sadahrano dharmah crutam patnya sahaditah: To be a mother, woman is created; and so does to be a father, a man is created”. They don't approve LGBT.

 

 

Beyond the explanation above, i'm not a scripturalist. hehehe

Now when we look back at the society. it might be a simple condition. I myself has ever seen some bi/homo sexual more than one time. look at them, they looked each other desirably with affection, sincerity, as it (love) is an innate and natural thing in human, and do not ignore “the hormone works”. Years back when i first engaged my self in NGO, i had many friends who works as survivors. Some nice some had secret life, some open it. Some were have gf but the men likes men. I might have seen more but some do not show the affection and act feminine or masculine like i would expect. They hide it, because of fear of treatment by community. well

In the other hand, we see the high rank of infidelity of common couple between husband and wife, irresponsible mut’ah, toxic bf-gf relationship. The lonesome feeling of celibate life makes people even more unsecured. The high rank of divorce, violence to both sexes, impunity that influences the psychology of them and their children. They grow up with hatred, trauma, scars then.  Some of them are lucky enough to be back to their family and grow up in good upbringing. Those bring consequences, consciously or unconsciously, directly or indirectly.

Regarding these issues, I assume that if we can build a healthy relationship in our home, surely our own home first, for single; he him self; she her self, then we can help the society reduce bi/homo and heal the behavior. (once again, i’m not against it)

It may take quiet long time to decide what we really need in life, what we are going to do, whether the idea of happiness which really fit us. In order to be internally satisfied, we make ourselves think that we need the external factor, and environment around us even intimidates us to think and to do so. What we need actually is to build an inter-connectivity first and it starts from ourselves, between me and my self, before i and them.

The second, As Muslim, we usually have our community-based (I think it is the same with another religion). for example Shiite with their strong tied community, they have imam bargah (hussainiyyah) everywhere, or ahmadiy who build their mosques for two functions (secretariat - a place for worshiping). I think it's important to have such a “crisis center” for both sexes to focus on the problem among the ummat, not only rituals (yeaah rituals are daily basis and important); but they – we can make sharing and healing sessions especially for those who are victims, and who have difficulties in solving their own burden.

To those who are not involve them-selves to the institution of religion? mmm Could care less, I still think it.

 

 

everything else is in the process.

no offence

no hard feeling

fi amanellah.

:)

 

Edited by JasmineAila
typo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

On ‎6‎/‎6‎/‎2016 at 8:39 PM, DigitalUmmah said:

I do not believe this. 

I was in primary and high school with a naqvi sayed who was 100% gay from childhood. he had brothers and came from a regular two parent family with zero trauma etc that you could use to "pin the gay" on him.

when we were children all us boys would be playing football or bulldog, he would be playing dolls with the girls. in high school we went to a boys only high school and you can imagine how badly he was bullied, living in the mid/ late 1990's in that sort of environment. there were two groups hated most in our posh, old fashioned grammar school - the jews and the gays. if you were in either of these subsets your life was pretty much hell from both students and teachers every single day of your school life. 

he couldnt help being soft and feminine, no matter how hard me and the other shias in the school tried to toughen him up. the guy is a full blown cross dressing ladyboy now, "married" to a white guy. hes an air hostess now and hasnt spoken to me for 10+ years, I only know whats going on in his life through our mutual friends. none of us knew that being gay was actually real, we all thought it was just an insult to call someone who is soft. 

I truly believe that this is caused by genetics, somehow, some way. my personal theory is that there is some sort of hormone imbalance which causes an excess of feminine hormones to be released instead of masculine ones. the link between levels of certain hormones and attraction to men has already been established in women. 

how to deal with it? by minding our own business. it doesn't become an issue for us until 5 just witnesses catch them in the act of sodomy. since its highly unlikely for this to ever happen to any of us, we should just treat them like everyone else with respect and politeness and focus on our own shortcomings. 

Undoubtedly, some people are born with genetic disorders giving them less musculine body and sometimes, feminine looks. The reason being defect in sex chromosome. One of such disorder is Klinefelters syndrome in which person has an extra X chromosome.

But there has been no correlation yet found between such genetic defects and their sexuality. Men with Klinefelters have no more chance of being gay than normal person . This defect does reduce the sex drive in men but does not effect their sexual orientation.

But there isn't enough scientific research done to completely explain the basis of a person's sexual orientation.

May Allah guide us towards right path.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is not a single scientific peer reviewed journal that actually supports the naturalistic claim of homosexuality. 

Secondly, even if for argument's sake you accept the natural argument; it feeds into the 'appeal to nature' fallacy. Simply because it is "natural" that doesn't make it permissible.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Syeda FS said:

But there isn't enough scientific research done to completely explain the basis of a person's sexual orientation.

indeed. there are only some sort of related studies regarding the amount of hormones present in women, and what sort of males they are attracted to:

http://www.ehbonline.org/article/S1090-5138(01)00066-6/abstract?cc=y=

Quote

The results indicate that females exhibit (1) a preference for a male face on the masculine side of average, (2) a shift toward a more masculine male face preference during the high-risk phase of their menstrual cycle, and (3) no shift in other facial preferences. An examination of individual differences revealed that women who scored low on a “masculinity” test (1) showed a larger menstrual shift, (2) had lower self-esteem, and (3) differed in their choice of male faces for dominance and short-term mates. The results are interpreted as support for a hormonal theory of facial attractiveness whereby perceived beauty depends on an interaction between displayed hormone markers and the hormonal state of the viewer.

my understanding of this article is that the relative amounts of hormones in females (oestrogen and progesterone) affects their attraction to males. depending on what hormone is most present in theoir blood, they become attracted to "masculine" faces or softer features. 

men also have these hormones present in their blood (oestrogen and progesterone) so what if some sort of imbalance/ anomaly in their DNA causes their body to produce too much of these hormones? this could explain their attraction to men. 

like I said though, its just a theory. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎1‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 10:49 PM, DigitalUmmah said:

indeed. there are only some sort of related studies regarding the amount of hormones present in women, and what sort of males they are attracted to:

http://www.ehbonline.org/article/S1090-5138(01)00066-6/abstract?cc=y=

my understanding of this article is that the relative amounts of hormones in females (oestrogen and progesterone) affects their attraction to males. depending on what hormone is most present in theoir blood, they become attracted to "masculine" faces or softer features. 

men also have these hormones present in their blood (oestrogen and progesterone) so what if some sort of imbalance/ anomaly in their DNA causes their body to produce too much of these hormones? this could explain their attraction to men. 

like I said though, its just a theory. 

Let me explain again. Klinefelter is a proper disease diagnosable at birth, characterized by hypogonadism(small gonads) , caused by an extra X chromosome, patient has LOW TESTOSTERONE AND HIGH ESTROGEN LEVELS. It doesnt just cause femininity, it may cause speech disorders, increased risk of heart attack and other complications too.

'Yet it doesn't effect sexual orientation'

. It is a DISEASE, treated by giving testosterone injections. Not treating it may cause early death.

LBGTQ community doesn't like being called diseased! Also, they strongly disapprove the notion that being gay equates femininity. There are strong burly men who are gay.

The survey you gave means nothing to me. What does 'high risk phase of menstrual cycle' even means? I mean I am a medical student and have never heard of it. I am a female and have never experienced this shift in choice of male face.

There must be a reason why Allah did not allow homosexuality.

I am not saying that all homosexuals must be hanged or something, neither does Islam. But until the reason behind the homosexual orientation is not fully determined, the argument cannot go in the favour of homosexuality. 

Because it can disrupt the society. The concept of hijaab would change. The concept of chastity, no touching the opposite gender, not looking at the opposite gender... There are so many rulings in Islam. Would we change all those ruling?

Islam does not allow homosexuality, and it is very clear. Either we would have to turn blind eye to those verses and hadith, or we'd have to leave Islam totally if we are to accommodate homosexuality.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12.1.2017 at 7:49 PM, DigitalUmmah said:

indeed. there are only some sort of related studies regarding the amount of hormones present in women, and what sort of males they are attracted to:

http://www.ehbonline.org/article/S1090-5138(01)00066-6/abstract?cc=y=

my understanding of this article is that the relative amounts of hormones in females (oestrogen and progesterone) affects their attraction to males. depending on what hormone is most present in theoir blood, they become attracted to "masculine" faces or softer features. 

men also have these hormones present in their blood (oestrogen and progesterone) so what if some sort of imbalance/ anomaly in their DNA causes their body to produce too much of these hormones? this could explain their attraction to men. 

like I said though, its just a theory. 

Yes. The thing is accepted in science community of Finland that hormone baths during pregnancy affect childs sexual preference in later life. My question would be. Is there any haram foods included in the diet of mother that will cause those hormone imbalances that will eventually create this homoaexual phenomenom?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're not exactly born heterosexual either, sexual attraction doesn't happen until you become conscious of it either in childhood or adolescence. It's not a choice, otherwise why would someone who is gay or bi decide to be oppressed and bullied for the way they are? Hence why many are in the closet, especially gay/bi muslims.

To be gay isn't a sin of itself. It's a feeling and a part of who you are. It's the action in itself (romantic relationships or sodomy etc.) that develops into a sin, which is completely different. It's like saying someone who is heterosexual and wants to be in a relationship, the actual thought of it isn't sinful. However, if you engage into a romantic relationship prior to marriage, that's where you fall into sin.

Thoughts and feelings do not dictate your sins, it's the actions that do. Otherwise we'd all be drowning in our sins if that was the case lol

And Allah knows best. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...