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In the Name of God بسم الله

Excommunicating (Takfir) father of Prophet (swa)

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lasthope

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 Excommunicating (Takfir) father of prophet (swa) by Ibn Taymiyyah.

Ibn Taymiyyah says, the messenger of Allah is prohibited to asking forgiveness of Allah for his father and his uncle.

Majmu'u al-Fatawa, v 1, p 109.

 

However, Fakhr al-Razi said, all ancestors of Muhammad (sw) were Mslims. Tafsir al-Razi, v 13, p39.

Alusi said, amongrst prophet's ancestors was no Kaffir, for he (sw) said, I was constantly transferred from the back of pure people to the womb of pure women. Tafsir Alusi, v 7, p 195.

Salihi al-Shami said, whoever says the father of prophet is in the fire, he is accursed. Subul al-Huda wa al-Rishad, v 1, p 260.

 

 

  

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10 hours ago, lasthope said:

9:113. (It is not (proper) for the Prophet and those who believe to ask Allah's forgiveness for the Mushrikin, even though they be of kin, after it has become clear to them that they are the dwellers of the Fire.) Concerning Abu Talib, this Ayah was revealed.

 

Shia as always:

 

Salihi al-Shami said, whoever says the father of prophet is in the fire, he is accursed. Subul al-Huda wa al-Rishad, v 1, p 260.

 

Alusi said, amongrst prophet's ancestors was no Kaffir, for he (sw) said, I was constantly transferred from the back of pure people to the womb of pure women. Tafsir Alusi, v 7, p 195.

 

However, Fakhr al-Razi said, all ancestors of Muhammad (sw) were Mslims. Tafsir al-Razi, v 13, p39.

 

 

So many lies...:ko:

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3 hours ago, Dutch002 said:

9:113. (It is not (proper) for the Prophet and those who believe to ask Allah's forgiveness for the Mushrikin, even though they be of kin, after it has become clear to them that they are the dwellers of the Fire.) Concerning Abu Talib, this Ayah was revealed.

 

 

You sure this verse was not about Abu Jahl and/or Abu Lahab.

But hey, I get it. The fathers and forefathers of all the Caliphs were kaffir so you try to bring down Ali by labeling his father as kaffir. I feel sorry for you.

Give me 1 Muslim who did more favors for the Prophet than AbTalib?

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@dutch 002. You are a classic example of a naive muslim who is willing to believe any rubbish your scholars throw at you. We believe most Muslims believe that all the prophet’s parents were believers except for people like you. The ayah you quoted has got nothing to do with Abu talib. Have you ever thought that maybe this ayah was revealed when sahabas were asking the Holy Prophet (s) to pray for the mushrik fathers? Let's look at the pathetic evidence some sunnis use.

حَدَّثَنَا إِسْحَاقُ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ، حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ الرَّزَّاقِ، أَخْبَرَنَا مَعْمَرٌ، عَنِ الزُّهْرِيِّ، عَنْ سَعِيدِ بْنِ الْمُسَيَّبِ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، قَالَ لَمَّا حَضَرَتْ أَبَا طَالِبٍ الْوَفَاةُ دَخَلَ عَلَيْهِ النَّبِيُّ صلى الله عليه وسلم وَعِنْدَهُ أَبُو جَهْلٍ وَعَبْدُ اللَّهِ بْنُ أَبِي أُمَيَّةَ، فَقَالَ النَّبِيُّ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏"‏ أَىْ عَمِّ قُلْ لاَ إِلَهَ إِلاَّ اللَّهُ‏.‏ أُحَاجُّ لَكَ بِهَا عِنْدَ اللَّهِ ‏"‏‏.‏ فَقَالَ أَبُو جَهْلٍ وَعَبْدُ اللَّهِ بْنُ أَبِي أُمَيَّةَ يَا أَبَا طَالِبٍ، أَتَرْغَبُ عَنْ مِلَّةِ عَبْدِ الْمُطَّلِبِ‏.‏ فَقَالَ النَّبِيُّ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏"‏ لأَسْتَغْفِرَنَّ لَكَ مَا لَمْ أُنْهَ عَنْكَ ‏"‏‏.‏ فَنَزَلَتْ ‏{‏مَا كَانَ لِلنَّبِيِّ وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا أَنْ يَسْتَغْفِرُوا لِلْمُشْرِكِينَ وَلَوْ كَانُوا أُولِي قُرْبَى مِنْ بَعْدِ مَا تَبَيَّنَ لَهُمْ أَنَّهُمْ أَصْحَابُ الْجَحِيمِ‏}

Narrated Al-Musaiyab: When Abu Talib's death approached, the Prophet (s) went to him while Abu Jahl and `Abdullah bin Abi Umaiya were present with him. The Prophet (s) said, "O uncle, say: None has the right to be worshipped except Allah, so that I may argue for your case with it before Allah." On that, Abu Jahl and `Abdullah bin Abu Umaiya said, "O Abu Talib! Do you want to renounce `Abdul Muttalib's religion?" Then the Prophet said, "I will keep on asking (Allah for) forgiveness for you unless I am forbidden to do so." Then there was revealed:-- 'It is not fitting for the Prophet (s) and those who believe that they should invoke (Allah) for forgiveness for pagans even though they be of kin, after it has become clear to them that they are companions of the Fire.' (9.113)

 

Sahih Bukhari, Hadith 4675

 

When you study this bukhari narration, it says the verse from surah towbah was revealed specifically for abu talib. This does not make sense the Surah Towba (another name is Surah barat) was revealed in medina and was actually considered one of the last surah of the holy quran. Evidence of this is from Bukhari itself. 

 

حَدَّثَنَا سُلَيْمَانُ بْنُ حَرْبٍ، حَدَّثَنَا شُعْبَةُ، عَنْ أَبِي إِسْحَاقَ، سَمِعْتُ الْبَرَاءَ ـ رضى الله عنه ـ قَالَ آخِرُ سُورَةٍ نَزَلَتْ بَرَاءَةَ، وَآخِرُ آيَةٍ نَزَلَتْ ‏{‏يَسْتَفْتُونَكَ ‏}‏

 

Narrated Al-Bara: The last Surah that was revealed was Bara'a, and the last Verse that was revealed was: "They ask you for a legal verdict, Say: Allah's directs (thus) about those who leave no descendants or ascendants as heirs." (4.176)

 

Sahih Bukhari, Hadith 4605

 

What this tells us is that Surah al-Tawbah (also called Bara’a) is one of the last Surahs, or the even the very last, and was certainly revealed in Medina, SEVERAL YEARS AFTER abu talib’s death. If you say that parts of madina surah's were revealed in mecca then please NAME me only ONE authoritative classical sunni scholar who says parts of surah towbah were revealed in mecca. 

This evil hadith accuses the father of imam ali of not being a muslim ddespite his many services to Islam. That is the level of hatred against Imam Ali (as) in the Sunni books. The hadith is narrated by al-Musaiyab, WHO WAS NOT A COMPANION at the time! Apparently, he was NOT an eye witness and did not give ANY source. Rather, he narrates the alleged event as an eye-witness. Yet when it comes to degrading imam ali, sunnis have no problem. I guess this what histroy is made of. Abu talib, the defender and protector of holy prophet (s) in mecca is considered a non muslim with a reward of hell fire slippers that will make his brain boil while the arch enemy of the holy prophet (s) was considered a sahabi going to heaven! This is how to turn the tables of history and how to twist anything you want! Peace.

Edited by goldenhawk
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58 minutes ago, goldenhawk said:

حَدَّثَنَا إِسْحَاقُ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ، حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ الرَّزَّاقِ، أَخْبَرَنَا مَعْمَرٌ، عَنِ الزُّهْرِيِّ، عَنْ سَعِيدِ بْنِ الْمُسَيَّبِ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، قَالَ لَمَّا حَضَرَتْ أَبَا طَالِبٍ الْوَفَاةُ دَخَلَ عَلَيْهِ النَّبِيُّ صلى الله عليه وسلم وَعِنْدَهُ أَبُو جَهْلٍ وَعَبْدُ اللَّهِ بْنُ أَبِي أُمَيَّةَ، فَقَالَ النَّبِيُّ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏"‏ أَىْ عَمِّ قُلْ لاَ إِلَهَ إِلاَّ اللَّهُ‏.‏ أُحَاجُّ لَكَ بِهَا عِنْدَ اللَّهِ ‏"‏‏.‏ فَقَالَ أَبُو جَهْلٍ وَعَبْدُ اللَّهِ بْنُ أَبِي أُمَيَّةَ يَا أَبَا طَالِبٍ، أَتَرْغَبُ عَنْ مِلَّةِ عَبْدِ الْمُطَّلِبِ‏.‏ فَقَالَ النَّبِيُّ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏"‏ لأَسْتَغْفِرَنَّ لَكَ مَا لَمْ أُنْهَ عَنْكَ ‏"‏‏.‏ فَنَزَلَتْ ‏{‏مَا كَانَ لِلنَّبِيِّ وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا أَنْ يَسْتَغْفِرُوا لِلْمُشْرِكِينَ وَلَوْ كَانُوا أُولِي قُرْبَى مِنْ بَعْدِ مَا تَبَيَّنَ لَهُمْ أَنَّهُمْ أَصْحَابُ الْجَحِيمِ‏}

Narrated Al-Musaiyab: When Abu Talib's death approached, the Prophet (s) went to him while Abu Jahl and `Abdullah bin Abi Umaiya were present with him. The Prophet (s) said, "O uncle, say: None has the right to be worshipped except Allah, so that I may argue for your case with it before Allah." On that, Abu Jahl and `Abdullah bin Abu Umaiya said, "O Abu Talib! Do you want to renounce `Abdul Muttalib's religion?" Then the Prophet said, "I will keep on asking (Allah for) forgiveness for you unless I am forbidden to do so." Then there was revealed:-- 'It is not fitting for the Prophet (s) and those who believe that they should invoke (Allah) for forgiveness for pagans even though they be of kin, after it has become clear to them that they are companions of the Fire.' (9.113)

 

Sahih Bukhari, Hadith 4675

More bad news for @Dutch002 - "Abdul Muttalib's religion" was the religion of Prophet Ibrahim. They were monotheists.

You can't label Abu Talib kafir without naming Ibrahim kafir. But if you do, then the that makes you ...

Quite a conundrum for your kind

 

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27 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

More bad news for @Dutch002 - "Abdul Muttalib's religion" was the religion of Prophet Ibrahim. They were monotheists.

You can't label Abu Talib kafir without naming Ibrahim kafir. But if you do, then the that makes you ...

Quite a conundrum for your kind

 

Brother, if these faithless nasibis have no problem calling the parents of the holy prophet (s) as non believers (god forbid!), then calling other personalities as kaafir would be no problem for them. Read their filth below taken from sahih muslim on the parents of the holy prophet (s)

 

Regarding his mother:

حَدَّثَنَا يَحْيَى بْنُ أَيُّوبَ، وَمُحَمَّدُ بْنُ عَبَّادٍ، - وَاللَّفْظُ لِيَحْيَى - قَالاَ حَدَّثَنَا مَرْوَانُ، بْنُ مُعَاوِيَةَ عَنْ يَزِيدَ، - يَعْنِي ابْنَ كَيْسَانَ - عَنْ أَبِي حَازِمٍ، عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ، قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ "‏ اسْتَأْذَنْتُ رَبِّي أَنْ أَسْتَغْفِرَ لأُمِّي فَلَمْ يَأْذَنْ لِي وَاسْتَأْذَنْتُهُ أَنْ أَزُورَ قَبْرَهَا فَأَذِنَ لِي ‏"‏ ‏

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger, (s) as saying: I sought permission to beg forgiveness for my mother, but He did not grant it to me. I sought permission from Him to visit her grave, and He granted it (permission) to me. Sahih Muslim, hadith 2129

 

 

Regarding his father:

 

حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو بَكْرِ بْنُ أَبِي شَيْبَةَ، حَدَّثَنَا عَفَّانُ، حَدَّثَنَا حَمَّادُ بْنُ سَلَمَةَ، عَنْ ثَابِتٍ، عَنْ أَنَسٍ، أَنَّ رَجُلاً، قَالَ يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ أَيْنَ أَبِي قَالَ ‏"‏ فِي النَّارِ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ فَلَمَّا قَفَّى دَعَاهُ فَقَالَ ‏"‏ إِنَّ أَبِي وَأَبَاكَ فِي النَّارِ ‏"‏

 

Anas reported: Verily, a person said: Messenger of Allah, where is my father? He said: (He) is in the Fire. When he turned away, he (the Holy Prophet) called him and said: Verily my father and your father are in the Fire. Sahih Muslim, hadith 203

 

 

 

To be fair, i think most sunnis don't believe in this slanderous rubbish but some nasibis do. I wonder what level of shame will they have on the day of judgement when they will look at the holy prophet (s) and then they realize that his (s) parents were indeed true believers.

Edited by goldenhawk
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5 hours ago, Dutch002 said:

9:113. (It is not (proper) for the Prophet and those who believe to ask Allah's forgiveness for the Mushrikin, even though they be of kin, after it has become clear to them that they are the dwellers of the Fire.) Concerning Abu Talib, this Ayah was revealed.

 

Shia as always:

 

Salihi al-Shami said, whoever says the father of prophet is in the fire, he is accursed. Subul al-Huda wa al-Rishad, v 1, p 260.

 

Alusi said, amongrst prophet's ancestors was no Kaffir, for he (sw) said, I was constantly transferred from the back of pure people to the womb of pure women. Tafsir Alusi, v 7, p 195.

 

However, Fakhr al-Razi said, all ancestors of Muhammad (sw) were Mslims. Tafsir al-Razi, v 13, p39.

 

 

So many lies...:ko:

no evidence for your claim, and these evidences i have brought to you all are from Sunni books. if they are lies, why do you Sunnis have many lies in your books!!!!

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I understand the hatred toward Abu Talib being Imam Ali father, and Ummyaad and others did not favor him in first place. This is why you can easily find hadith in Sunni Islam against him. But what I don't understand why Prophet parents? Where these hadiths even originate from?

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