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Sunnibro

Is this hadith true?

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Salam alaikum,

I received this hadith..it is a shia hadith and i wanted to know if it is true.

 

She was a widow like many other wives of the holy Prophet (saw). However due to her behaviour and antagonistic attitude towards the holy Prophet (saw) and his progeny, he divorced her.

Reference: Bihar al anwar, volume 22 and page 229.

 

This is regardinig Hafsa, the daughter of the second claiph, Umar.

Can someone please tell me if the hadith is reliable according to shia or not? 

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Salamunalaykum dear brother in Islam,

I am not commenting on this hadith or its grading, but be careful of Bihar al Anwar. It is perhaps one of our most unauthentic books , and the majority of it is full of Dai'f hadiths, and many very questionable hadiths. In terms of percentage of Dai'f hadith, it perhaps contains the greatest percentage, than any other book (or it's definitely among the group of the most unauthentic).

Each hadith must be graded, and even if one finds a hadith in a book like Al Kafi, that still needs grading.

I often see shia's unfortunately quote Bihar without any consideration of the chain.

I rarely ever complain that Bihar al Anwar is not translated - i think it would do more damage for a layman to have it translated. If Bihar Al Anwar is ever translated, even by one volume, i would hesitate to read it unless it was graded and contained gradings.

Al Kafi on the other hand, i want translated. 

Edited by Tawheed313

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31 minutes ago, Tawheed313 said:

Salamunalaykum dear brother in Islam,

I am not commenting on this hadith or its grading, but be careful of Bihar al Anwar. It is perhaps one of our most unauthentic books , and the majority of it is full of Dai'f hadiths, and many very questionable hadiths. In terms of percentage of Dai'f hadith, it perhaps contains the greatest percentage, than any other book (or it's definitely among the group of the most unauthentic).

Each hadith must be graded, and even if one finds a hadith in a book like Al Kafi, that still needs grading.

I often see shia's unfortunately quote Bihar without any consideration of the chain.

I rarely ever complain that Bihar al Anwar is not translated - i think it would do more damage for a layman to have it translated. If Bihar Al Anwar is ever translated, even by one volume, i would hesitate to read it unless it was graded and contained gradings.

Al Kafi on the other hand, i want translated. 

walaykum salam brother,

i am aware that not all hadiths are reliable and that each of them should be graded. thank you for your post though. 

i'm particular interested in the hadith quoted above. In the sunni texts that I have come across, it seems that the Prophet had divorced her once and then took her back.

Can someone please help me with the grading on the hadith quoted in OP (and otehr hadiths that have similar content perhaps)? I wish brother Abu Fatima was here. I'm coming here after a long gap and he is unregistered unfortunately. that brother was really good. Hopefully he is back again.

Can some other brother help me on this? @Nader Zaveri or @Qaim ?

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4 hours ago, Sunnibro said:

Salam alaikum,

I received this hadith..it is a shia hadith and i wanted to know if it is true.

 

She was a widow like many other wives of the holy Prophet (saw). However due to her behaviour and antagonistic attitude towards the holy Prophet (saw) and his progeny, he divorced her.

Reference: Bihar al anwar, volume 22 and page 229.

 

This is regardinig Hafsa, the daughter of the second claiph, Umar.

Can someone please tell me if the hadith is reliable according to shia or not? 

Let's divide it into 2 parts.

  • Hafsa interaction/attitude towards the Prophet: Surah 66:1-7 tells us of the pain some of the wives caused the Prophet so much so that Allah threatened them with divorce. So at least part of the hadith is definitely true.
  • Prophet's reaction towards Hafsa: Until the time of revelation of Surah Tahrim (66) Hafsa was not divorced. This is the eighth-last surah to be revealed which would be towards the last years of the Prophet. While it is not inconceivable that the Prophet divorced Hafsa, I am sure us shias would have been more vocal about this had it been 100% authentic or verified. 

 

 

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Regarding:  Mullah Baquir-e-Majlisi 'Bihar-ul-Anwar'

Author collected hadiths from all, without scrutiny and compiled over 100 volumes, and left the verification and authentication to the later generation of scholars. It is inconceivable that a person in the 1600’s  had the time,  to collect 100 + volumes of saying and had the time, means  to scrutinize it.

Allama Majlisi knew that there still existed dozens of booklets and notebooks belonging to students of the Infallibles (peace be upon them) that contained invaluable narrations. So he took it upon himself to compile a collection of every single narration that was attributed to an Infallible. After several years of struggle, he produced the renowned Bihar al-Anwar al-Jami'atul Darar Aimmatul At'har ("Sea of Lights of the Collection of the Pearls of the Pure Infallibles"), his 110-volume magnum opus that contains narrations of the Infallibles on every topic imaginable, ranging from articles of belief and issues of jurisprudence to recommendations on personal hygiene and matters of everyday routine. However, it must be kept in mind that Allama's goal was to collect every single narration available, not sift through and find the reliable ones, so only a trained scholar can determine which ones are authenic.

*****

“The Magnum opus of Muhammad Baqir al Majlisi was the famous ENCYCLOPEDIC collection if Imami Shi hadith, Bihar al -anwar, In its more recent printing it amounts to well over ONE HUNDRED VOLumes

Publisher's Preface

The Life and Religion of Muhammad (Hiyat al-Qulub)

Translated by. Rev James L Merrick

*****

"Before resorting to quote anything on the authority of the great learned Mullah(Baqir-Majlisi", one should know that the great Mullah had never said that whatever he has quoted is a gospel truth. The collection of the traditions, he has made, is a store of food for the thought of those busy in the scrutiny of the traditions of the Holy Prophet, and it is up to the seekers of the knowledge of the Ahadees (traditions), to pick out the genuine ones from the collection, and from the false ones to know the turn of the minds which affected the counterfeit sayings. It is a universally acknowledged by all scholars that the great work of the collection of the traditions by Mullah Baquir-e-Majlisi 'Bihar-ul-Anwar' or the oceans of Lights, contain in its traditions:-

Sahih--Correct

Ghalat--Wrong or False

Motabar--Reliable

Ghaira Motabar--Unreliable

Mustanad--Certified

Ghaira Mustanad--Uncertified

Musalsal--Continuously related

Ghaira Musalsal--Not continuously related

Ah'haad--The lonely-related by only one person and not supported by any one else."

Page:130:Husain, The Saviour of Islam, By:S.V.Mir Ahmed Ali

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Since Both Valuable books were mentioned in this topic. As a Layman, I provided some basic info, like all posts by us laypeople- its subject to readers individual research and verification/validation. 

In general we, do not have a concept of "Sahih" books. These are collection of Traditions, for Trained and Qualified Scholars. 

*****

Regarding: Al-Kafi

[" The number of traditions in al-Kafi is 15,181;8 according to another reckoning 15,176.9 If the traditions reported in different sections are counted, the number is over 1,000 more. Of the basic traditions, 5,072 are considered sound(sahih) by scholars, i.e. first category; 144 are regarded as good (hasan), second category; 178 are held to be trustworthy (muwaththaq), third category; 302 are adjudged to be strong (qawi), fourth category; and 9,484 are considered weak(da'if), fifth category.10 The fact that a tradition is considered weak does not mean that it is not true.

What it means is that the scholars of tradition have found some weakness in the tradition, usually one of the persons in the isnad, which suggests the possibility that the tradition might not go back to the Imam as claimed. The science developed by Islamic scholars of tradition in order to examine the isnads and subject matter of traditions is a very specialised study; it involves, in particular, `ilm al-rijal, the study of the backgrounds of individual traditionists who have handed on the tradition."]

https://www.al-islam.org/al-serat/vol-2-1976/great-shii-works-al-kafi-al-kulayni/great-shii-works-al-kafi-al-kulayni#author

*****

Layman.

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6 hours ago, Sunnibro said:

Salam alaikum,

I received this hadith..it is a shia hadith and i wanted to know if it is true.

 

She was a widow like many other wives of the holy Prophet (saw). However due to her behaviour and antagonistic attitude towards the holy Prophet (saw) and his progeny, he divorced her.

Reference: Bihar al anwar, volume 22 and page 229.

 

This is regardinig Hafsa, the daughter of the second claiph, Umar.

Can someone please tell me if the hadith is reliable according to shia or not? 

["...`Umar added, "The Prophet (ﷺ) kept away from his wives and I said "Hafsa is a ruined loser.' I had already thought that most probably this (divorce) would happen in the near future. ...."

Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 5191

In-book reference : Book 67, Hadith 125

USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 7, Book 62, Hadith 119

http://sunnah.com/bukhari/67/125

I as a Layman, do not have the ability to answer your question, its for the qualified members to handle.

However, I do want to point out that, one point was already mentioned above Qur'an Surah 66: [Tahrim ( The Prohibition), I have provided you with a " relevant part " of Hadith from Sahih Bukhari.

Regardless of the Authenticity of a particular hadith- can this "Thought ",'allegation' or  "rumor"  be only attributed to Shia's? 

 

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4 hours ago, Nader Zaveri said:

:salam:

:bismillah:

 

This is not an authentic Hadīth. 

 

:salam:

 

walaykum alsalaam,

Thank you brother. Can you please also specify why it is not authentic. Does it not have a chain or is there any narrator/s that is not reliable?

Also, I know that Bihar anwar is a collection of hadiths. But does bihar al anwar have Sunni narrations too?

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7 hours ago, Sunnibro said:

Salam alaikum,

I received this hadith..it is a shia hadith and i wanted to know if it is true.

 

She was a widow like many other wives of the holy Prophet (saw). However due to her behaviour and antagonistic attitude towards the holy Prophet (saw) and his progeny, he divorced her.

Reference: Bihar al anwar, volume 22 and page 229.

 

This is regardinig Hafsa, the daughter of the second claiph, Umar.

Can someone please tell me if the hadith is reliable according to shia or not? 

Salam alaykom bro.

this hadith is common in the Sunni sources, But in the Shia sources it's not common and reliable.

What we can say in this regard is this: Hafse was one of the prophet's wife, however annoyed prophet a lot and according to some sources prophet decided to divorce her and Gebrial was revealed and changed his decision.

The other point is this: Verses 1 till 4 of sura' Tahrim was revealed about her and Ayeshe because of their  bad deeds.

You can see this story in this Sunni sources:

1- Ketab Jomal men Ansab al-ashraf, Belazari, Vol2, page: 590

2- Al-Mojam al-Kabir, Tabrani, Vol 23, page: 188

3- Al-Tabaghat al-Kobra, page: 8485

4- Al-Montakhab men Ketab Azvaj al-Nabi, page: 40.

Notice: Majlesi , the writer of Bihar wants to gather all of the ahadith, so it is possible that he brought some ahadith from the Sunni path and from the sunni sources.

I hope this answer help you my dear brother.

 

Alhamdulellah. 

Edited by Mohammad-Reza

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The hadith is pretty different from what you wrote, but the point of the Holy Prophet's divorcing her is present in the source.

However, the hadith lacks a chain of transmitters. That is to say we do not know who and from where acquired this hadith. It starts with these words: "Wa qila" (And it is said). So we do not know who and from what source narrates these words. Still, al-Allamah al-Majlisi narrated these types of hadiths because he found them in sources which were connected to Shia in someway, for the reason of preserving the legacy. 

Conclusion: no, it is not a reliable hadith. 

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14 hours ago, Salman Haqiqi said:

The hadith is pretty different from what you wrote, but the point of the Holy Prophet's divorcing her is present in the source.

However, the hadith lacks a chain of transmitters. That is to say we do not know who and from where acquired this hadith. It starts with these words: "Wa qila" (And it is said). So we do not know who and from what source narrates these words. Still, al-Allamah al-Majlisi narrated these types of hadiths because he found them in sources which were connected to Shia in someway, for the reason of preserving the legacy. 

Conclusion: no, it is not a reliable hadith. 

Thank you. Are you sure it does not have any chain at all? Because i will tell this to the person who sent me that hadith and he is a shia.

also, brother Nader Zaveri did not respond to my last post (maybe he didn't see it) so i want to ask you about Bihar. does it also have sunni hadiths in it?

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3 hours ago, Sunnibro said:

Thank you. Are you sure it does not have any chain at all? Because i will tell this to the person who sent me that hadith and he is a shia.

also, brother Nader Zaveri did not respond to my last post (maybe he didn't see it) so i want to ask you about Bihar. does it also have sunni hadiths in it?

As far as I understand! You can look at Bihar in case you found a copy. Mine is online but needs subscription. It is here http://www.noorlib.ir/View/en/Book/BookView/Image/11145 if you could sign up.

Solution: you can ask the person to bring a chain of transmitter, and if he failed ... :)

 

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On 6/4/2016 at 3:10 PM, Sunnibro said:

also, brother Nader Zaveri did not respond to my last post (maybe he didn't see it) so i want to ask you about Bihar. does it also have sunni hadiths in it?

The sources of Bihar ul anwar include about 387 Shii sources and about 85 sunni sources to get the hadith of the prophet (from Ahl albayat.. as.).

 

Edited by skamran110

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