The Prophet SAW descend from Adnan? Not sure

[wmehar2]

Salaam everyone, I uh have been trying to reconcile something.   

If Adnan was the ancestor of the Quraysh and the Prophet SAW, and he existed sometime 562 BC, after Nebuchadnezzar II took out the Qedar (tribe of Ishmael pbuh, and ancestor to Quraysh purportedl)  Kingdom.... and the Prophet SAW himself was born in 570 AD...  This would mean there's roughly 1100+ years between them.  And the Prophet SAW says his descendants are 20/21 men before from himself, all the way to Adnan.

So.. There's a small contention here.   This would mean on the AVERAGE age of each and every one of the prophet's forefathers at conception of the next descendant, would be 54 years old.........  I'm sure some of you already realize that this is problematic.   

Most people have kids between the ages 20 - 30 years old.  Especially in ancient culture/traditions, wives may have had kids as soon as they hit 17/18 or even younger.  The Prophet SAW himself had his first child in his 30's.   This is really hard to reconcile as plausible guys.  It seems highly unlikely that this claim is true.  

Unless the first 10 or so ancestors had their patrilineal main guy at 60/70 years old, then the last 10 guys had their kids at 30/40 years old.... This wouldn't make too much sense (even that example is highly dubious).  The average survival age for males back then... as you all may already know.. was 50's, 60's if one was lucky.

Logically, it makes sense why culturally we have kids from a very young age: Because they didn't live too long during those times.

Can anyone provide or offer some insight who is knowledgeable on the subject of the Lineages and Pre-Islamic Arabia?

[Hameedeh]

The website al-islam.org is a Shia site offering free books and videos. In a book about Imam Hussein AS, you can view the family tree of Prophet Muhammad SA. Yes, the Holy Prophet SA descended from Adnan, may Allah be pleased with him. 

https://www.al-islam.org/husayn-saviour-islam-sv-mir-ahmad-ali

[wmehar2]

On 6/2/2016 at 5:17 PM, hameedeh said:

The website al-islam.org is a Shia site offering free books and videos. In a book about Imam Hussein AS, you can view the family tree of Prophet Muhammad SA. Yes, the Holy Prophet SA descended from Adnan, may Allah be pleased with him. 

https://www.al-islam.org/husayn-saviour-islam-sv-mir-ahmad-ali

Thank you for your reply Sister, and Assalaamu'Alaikum.  I'd just like to make a simple correction to the table you've displayed to me, It seems there are a few descendants missing.  

 

I do know the tradition that you've referenced sister, but it doesn't explain my concerns.  I'm looking for knowledge concerning the actual descendants of Adnan if they exist, some information about their lives, kids, ages, and other sorts of information.   The concern stems from the implausibility, or unlikelihood that there could have been only 21 descendants given average age statistics, and living conditions in Pre-Islamic Arabia.   

I'm hoping to find or learn that perhaps Adnan's time was much sooner than 562 BC, perhaps maybe 350 BC  or 400 BC, or that these men indeed had children when they were much older on average and lived that long. 

 

Edited June 9, 2016 by wmehar2

[Hameedeh]

Salam. The image that I posted is from a book on a reputable Shia website al-islam.org and I am sure that it is reliable. The image that you posted is from a personal blog of an Indonesian man who is not Shia, so I have doubt in it. (Also a few people tweeted the image on their Twitter accounts.) 

[wmehar2]

On 6/9/2016 at 11:42 AM, hameedeh said:

Salam. The image that I posted is from a Shia website and I am sure that it is reliable. The image that you posted is from the blog of an Indonesian man who is not Shia, so I have doubt in it. 

I am not a Shia' nor a Sunni, sister, but I can assure you, the Shia' and Sunni do NOT have differing beliefs as to whom the ancestors of the Prophet SAW were.  They were 21 descendants of Adnan to the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) in total. 

I do recommended in the most sincerest way, that you not rely on a website only because it is a Shia' source.  Regardless of Sunni or Shia' sources, men make mistakes my sister.  It's better to find scholarly references and verify them from any site that have citations. 

It was my mistake to use the table from before without showing proper citation/reference. 

[Hameedeh]

@wmehar2 As I am leaving town, I won't be able to reply again. InshaAllah other members can discuss with you until I return. May Allah SWT bless you during this Holy Month of Ramadan. 

[wmehar2]

@hameedeh Thank you for your reply well wishes.  I wish for Allah SWT to grant you the same this blessed month, Ramadan Mubarak.

[Chaotic Muslem]

On June 2, 2016 at 11:26 PM, wmehar2 said:

Salaam everyone, I uh have been trying to reconcile something.   

If Adnan was the ancestor of the Quraysh and the Prophet SAW, and he existed sometime 562 BC, after Nebuchadnezzar II took out the Qedar (tribe of Ishmael pbuh, and ancestor to Quraysh purportedl)  Kingdom.... and the Prophet SAW himself was born in 570 AD...  This would mean there's roughly 1100+ years between them.  And the Prophet SAW says his descendants are 20/21 men before from himself, all the way to Adnan.

So.. There's a small contention here.   This would mean on the AVERAGE age of each and every one of the prophet's forefathers at conception of the next descendant, would be 54 years old.........  I'm sure some of you already realize that this is problematic.   

Most people have kids between the ages 20 - 30 years old.  Especially in ancient culture/traditions, wives may have had kids as soon as they hit 17/18 or even younger.  The Prophet SAW himself had his first child in his 30's.   This is really hard to reconcile as plausible guys.  It seems highly unlikely that this claim is true.  

Unless the first 10 or so ancestors had their patrilineal main guy at 60/70 years old, then the last 10 guys had their kids at 30/40 years old.... This wouldn't make too much sense (even that example is highly dubious).  The average survival age for males back then... as you all may already know.. was 50's, 60's if one was lucky.

Logically, it makes sense why culturally we have kids from a very young age: Because they didn't live too long during those times.

Can anyone provide or offer some insight who is knowledgeable on the subject of the Lineages and Pre-Islamic Arabia?

im not sure why are you assuming they did not live long, nor I'm seeing the impossibility or the contradiction.

 

[wmehar2]

16 minutes ago, Chaotic Muslem said:

im not sure why are you assuming they did not live long, nor I'm seeing the impossibility or the contradiction.

 

Because historically we already know a few of the Prophet's  SAW ancestors died around 30 years old or before, (for example Hashim great-grandfather , and Abd'Allah, his father). There are a few other's that escape my mind currently that also died young.  There are also other's I do know of who died post 70/80, but I do not know exactly when they conceived their child. 

The Prophet SAW himself died at 60 and conceived children late 20s/early 30's.  

Which further pushes the average age of having a child at 62 years old.   This would mean  the prophet's ancestors each would have have had to have had their children at 60+ years of age.   This is.. really really difficult to conceptualize especially given historical context and culture.   The prophet's saw father himself consummated at 24 years old. 

I'm not so much as hinting at a contradiction, as I'm trying to gain historical background and knowledge of the matter.  It's an object of interest for me.  I've already read on Wikipedia that they put Adan at 122 BC, which is a blatant contradiction to the historical accounts (shia and sunni sources) of Adnan dying in the time of Nebuchadnezzar II in around 562 BC .

Edited June 9, 2016 by wmehar2