what do you make out of this fatwa?

[Caliguy]

Salam,

I emailed this question to Ayat Khameni office;

Asalamalekum,

You mention that one should not look at a muslim hijabi woman face if she has beautify herself with make up (zinat). But men and woman work together in many jobs, colleges, even religious places, where a man has to look at the woman face inorder to communicate. How should a man communicate with a muslim womans who beautify themselves in public. Because it is impossible to communicate without looking at someone face.

Thank you

Ans;

During daily association it is not necessary to look at the woman's face. Whatever the case is, looking at a non-mahram in the given situation is impermissible.

That is impermissible even in the given situation.

[Hameedeh]

@Caliguy After you see the hijabi woman (coworker, classmate, superior, mentor, etc.) and say salam to her, you can simply look away. Look at your notebook, ink pen, tablet, book, briefcase, keyboard, computer screen, etc. Looking at your own shoes is a polite gesture. Since she is a hijabi female, she will know that men are not supposed to gaze into her eyes and focus on her beauty. FYI: you can hear what she says without looking at her and she won't need to look at your face in order to hear what you say. 

[Caliguy]

18 hours ago, hameedeh said:

@Caliguy After you see the hijabi woman (coworker, classmate, superior, mentor, etc.) and say salam to her, you can simply look away. Look at your notebook, ink pen, tablet, book, briefcase, keyboard, computer screen, etc. Looking at your own shoes is a polite gesture. Since she is a hijabi female, she will know that men are not supposed to gaze into her eyes and focus on her beauty. FYI: you can hear what she says without looking at her and she won't need to look at your face in order to hear what you say. 

but what about one to one conversation? its impossible to have conversation with anyone without making a eye contact. When you look at someone face it tells you their expression, their seriousness in listing to what you are saying etc. I guess you probably watch some form of muslim tv, where there is always a male host with a hijabi woman who usually wear make up. And they always interact while making a eye contact, but respectfully. I messaged this question to few other maraja and all said it is permissible in the case of neccessity, except from ayat khameni office. So this would means, that all dramas and movies made in iran haram. 

[Caliguy]

21 hours ago, Irfani313 said:

Dear brother - there is a difference between seeing the face, as opposed to looking at the face, as opposed to starring at the face, as opposed to gulping the face down your throat. We all are judge of our hearts and Allah swt knows the slightest tilt of the hearts and the eyes. So be your own guard. Its really not that hard once you pick away the lust frm your heart. End of the day Allah swt is not only looking for a complete success, He also weighs your efforts towards it.

I was thinking about it the other day and I thought how I could keep my eyes off of normal girls passing by but when someone exceptionally beautiful ones would come by, I would glance at them every once a while and I thought that I was completely failing myself. Its like I'm in a countryside marathon and I cover all the easy terrain with great vigor but when a small mountain or a hurdle comes up, I slow down and break my spirit and start walking. In other words, the place where I really need the efforts, I give in and places where I could easily pass, I would show all the efforts there. I realized if one does it for Allah swt or in our daily lives at home or work, we'll never progress to the next level.  

 

i know what you are saying brother, i try to do the same and avoid looking at them for no valid reasons. But i was talking about in the case of neccessity, where one has to do one to one conversation. I think some of our ulema go to extremes in giving out their fatwas. For example, i messaged this question to few other maraja and they said it is permissible in the case of necessity, except ayat khameni office.

[Hameedeh]

@Caliguy Is Ayatullah Khamenei your marja? If he is, then you can be sure that what he tells you is from his knowledge of Qur'an and hadith. If he is not your marja, why do you bother him by asking him questions? 

[Caliguy]

6 minutes ago, hameedeh said:

@Caliguy Is Ayatullah Khamenei your marja? If he is, then you can be sure that what he tells you is from his knowledge of Qur'an and hadith. If he is not your marja, why do you bother him by asking him questions? 

i follow ayat sistani, but i just want to be on the safe side, that why i message couple other marajas. Hence, i heard that if you know that each maraja is equal in knowledge in that field, one can follow them also. Although Ayatollah sistani have very simple rulings regarding non mahram interaction, i came to know. 

[Hameedeh]

@Caliguy Okay, that makes sense. Did you ask the exact same question of the different ulema? Can you please post the answers of the other ulema so we can see the difference in the replies? 

[Caliguy]

In the Name of God, the Most High

 

There is no problem in seeing a woman who is wearing makeup but looking with lustful intention is not allowed and it does not make any difference whether she is wearing makeup or not.

 

May Allah grant you success.

www.sistani.org

 

If they have to be in the same place and have to communicate, then it is allowed as long as it is necessary.

  Grand Ayatollah Hosseini Nassab

 

[Abu Hadi]

The problem when you ask several marjaa' is that the answer depends on the skill of the translator and how diligent they are in getting the question to the marjaa'. It also depends on how much time the marjaa' has to answer the questions and how much other workload they have. 

There are many words for 'look' in Arabic, and probably in Farsi also (although I don't know much Farsi, but I am assuming this). The one the translator chose when translating your question to Imam Khamenai(ha) might not have been the right one.

For example (we'll use English for this one), if you take your question and replace the word 'look' with the words 'stare' , both similar words that have different meanings, then the answer of the office of Imam Khameni(ha) would make perfect sense, as 'staring' at a non mahram (whether she has makeup on or not) is haram, impermissible. I am not saying that is what happened (because I haven't see the translation of your question), 

But if the question is translated and presented in a way that was not your intention to the marjaa', of course you will get an answer that doesn't make sense. It has nothing to do with the knowledge of the marjaa', it is a result of miscommunication or mistranslation between yourself and the presenter of the question(whoever that was). 

Another part of this is that most of the time, the marjaa' himself does not answer the question (these offices get probably thousands or hundreds of thousands of questions per day), but someone in his office answers or they look up the answer in one of the books of the marjaa' that is similar to the question you asked. This, of course, is an imperfect process. 

You got a clear answer from your marjaa', Alhamduillah. If you need further clarification, I am willing to discuss. 

 

Edited May 31, 2016 by Abu Hadi

[Caliguy]

On 5/30/2016 at 5:57 PM, hameedeh said:

@Caliguy Okay, that makes sense. Did you ask the exact same question of the different ulema? Can you please post the answers of the other ulema so we can see the difference in the replies? 

 

18 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

The problem when you ask several marjaa' is that the answer depends on the skill of the translator and how diligent they are in getting the question to the marjaa'. It also depends on how much time the marjaa' has to answer the questions and how much other workload they have. 

There are many words for 'look' in Arabic, and probably in Farsi also (although I don't know much Farsi, but I am assuming this). The one the translator chose when translating your question to Imam Khamenai(ha) might not have been the right one.

For example (we'll use English for this one), if you take your question and replace the word 'look' with the words 'stare' , both similar words that have different meanings, then the answer of the office of Imam Khameni(ha) would make perfect sense, as 'staring' at a non mahram (whether she has makeup on or not) is haram, impermissible. I am not saying that is what happened (because I haven't see the translation of your question), 

But if the question is translated and presented in a way that was not your intention to the marjaa', of course you will get an answer that doesn't make sense. It has nothing to do with the knowledge of the marjaa', it is a result of miscommunication or mistranslation between yourself and the presenter of the question(whoever that was). 

Another part of this is that most of the time, the marjaa' himself does not answer the question (these offices get probably thousands or hundreds of thousands of questions per day), but someone in his office answers or they look up the answer in one of the books of the marjaa' that is similar to the question you asked. This, of course, is an imperfect process. 

You got a clear answer from your marjaa', Alhamduillah. If you need further clarification, I am willing to discuss. 

 

 

brother, i asked this question to him twice and twice i received the same reply. So i became suspicious and send this question to multiple marja to confirm, and they all said it is permissible to look at womans face even if she is wearing make up, but without ill intentions, which makes sense. When i send my question to ayat khameni office, i categorically wrote "in the case of necessity" to look at woman's who apply make up. So i don't think, there should be anyway, they could have misunderstood my query. And if you have send istifta to ayat khameni office, you would have noticed the representatives english is much superior compare to ayat sistani representatives. Who usually reply with grammar of a 5th grader, and are normally one liners, which usually don't answers the questions to the point, not to mention, the waiting periods are ages compare to ayat khameni office who typically reply within couple of days.

One thing which puzzles me is that, ayat khameni office replied its okay to watch iranian dramas and movies of such womans. I know laws are different with regards to looking at a woman's in flesh and in picture or a movie. But still doesn't it make the iranian dramas and movies haram, since most woman's actress beautify themselves and are working with non mahram mans, who look at their faces. Which is clearly impermissible by ayat khameni office, even though, i think their ministry looks after these dramas and movies which should be under islamic guidelines