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6Roman6Catholic6

What does Islam teach about Jesus' Crucifiction?

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Hello, I am Joe

I have read up a bit on Islam. I know that Islam is the second largest religion on earth, and that it is growing at a faster rate than Christianity at this point in time. From everything I have read Islam claims a "mysterious" raising up of Jesus to God in Heaven without Jesus having been killed on the cross. And, that someone else was made to have the appearance of Jesus. Most often I have read that Muslims believe that Judas, the betrayer of Jesus was the person Crucified. I have read much of the Quran, and nowhere does it say this is what happened. I am of the belief that when Allah said that Jesus was not killed or crucified, Allah was simply saying that "the Jews" did not kill or crucify Jesus. But, that it was made to appear that they did. When in reality it was the Romans that killed Jesus, but it appeared that the Jews were responsible when they were not, Even though the Jews rejected Jesus as the Messiah.

Edited by 6Roman6Catholic6

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50 minutes ago, 6Roman6Catholic6 said:

Hello, I am Joe

I have read up a bit on Islam. I know that Islam is the second largest religion on earth, and that it is growing at a faster rate than Christianity at this point in time. From everything I have read Islam claims a "mysterious" raising up of Jesus to God in Heaven without Jesus having been killed on the cross. And, that someone else was made to have the appearance of Jesus. Most often I have read that Muslims believe that Judas, the betrayer of Jesus was the person Crucified. I have read much of the Quran, and nowhere does it say this is what happened. I am of the belief that when Allah said that Jesus was not killed or crucified, Allah was simply saying that "the Jews" did not kill or crucify Jesus. But, that it was made to appear that they did. When in reality it was the Roman that killed Jesus, but it appeared that the Jews were responsible when they were not, Even though the Jews rejected Jesus as the Messiah.


Peace be upon you, the mysterious raising is the ressurection of Jesus pbuh and it was done by Allah swt before the Jewish Scholars may Allah curse them capture Jesus pbuh. It was after a prayer from Jesus to God to save him from the Jews and save him from the torment of the crucifiction and God does not leave a prayer unanswered of a Prophet and Guide of mankind of his. And what you say that it means that the Jews did not crucify or kill him but the Romans it is not true, and the saying in the Quran is clear. Allah swt has told Mankind that he ressurected Jesus pbuh before the Jews capture him and sent a lookalike of Jesus pbuh which was captured and crucified later on. 

Ali the son of Ibrahim that Abi Ja’afar (PBUH) said:  "Verily, Jesus (PBUH) promised his disciples the night in which Allah raised him, so they all gathered by night time, and they are twelve men, so he made them enter a house then he came out to them from an eye in the corner of the house, and he was shaking his head from water, then he said, verily Allah is raising me to him this hour, and He is my purifier from the Jews, so who among you is to have my ghost thrown upon him that he may be killed and crucified and be with me in my status/level? So a young man from them said, I am, O spirit of Allah, so he said, so you are he”. Then he (PBUH) said “Verily the Jews came in demand for Jesus (PBUH) from their night…and they took the young man whom the ghost of Jesus (PBUH) was thrown upon so he was killed and crucified)"  Tafsir Al Qami part 1 p.103, Bihar Al Anwar part 14 p.336-337, Qisas Al Anbiyaa’ by Al Gaza’ery p.473.

And there have been Muslim scholars who have thought that it was Judas Iscariot which was the one cruficied instead of Jesus pbuh, but this is incorrect, because how can Judas Iscariot be the lookalike when he was the one who went to the Jewish Scholars to betray Jesus pbuh and then went a kissed the lookalike of Jesus which he thought that was Jesus pbuh, after the night in which Jesus pbuh was raised to Allah swt and the lookalike was sent down. So how can Judas Iscariot be the lookalike when he kissed the lookalike of Jesus thus signaling to the Jews who to capture ??!  Judas Iscariot cannot be in two bodys at the same time. 

And it is true that the lookalike of Jesus pbuh was named Judah but he was not Judas Iscariot, rather he was another person and the matter is very clear. Gospel of Judah which authencity has been confirmed on 100% is a proof that there was a lookalike that got crucified instead of Jesus pbuh and sacrificed himself. 

Gospel of Judah, Scene 3:
[Judah said, “Master, could it be that my lineage is under the control
of the rulers?”
Jesus answered and said to him, “Come, that I [ … two lines missing
… ], but that you will grieve much when you see the kingdom and
all its generation.”
When he heard this, Judah said to him, “What good is it that I have
received it? For you have set me apart for that generation.”
Jesus answered and said, “You will become the thirteenth, and you
will be cursed by the other generations — and you will come to rule
over them. In the last days they will curse your ascent [47] to the holy
[generation]”]
[“But you will exceed all of them. For you will sacrifice the man
that clothes me.
”]
[“Already your horn has been raised,
your wrath has been kindled,
46 The Thirteenth Disciple
your star has shown brightly,
and your heart has … [57]”]

And Judah from the Gospel of Judah is not Judas Iscariot who was an evil man, and who made the betrayal for some money, and who later on killed himself. Because how can such a person rule over mankind in the last days. Rather Judah, the lookalike of Jesus pbuh is from the Progeny of Imam Ali bin Abi Talib pbuh.

The Messenger of God Muhammad℗ said in his supplication for Ali bin Abi Talib℗, ﴾“O God! Grant him the patience of Moses, and make among his descendants the look-alike of Jesus℗. O God! Indeed, You are my vicegerent upon him and upon his progeny and his kind and purified lineage from whom You have removed uncleanliness and impurity.”﴿   Al-Ghayba (The occultation) by al-Numani page 144.

Edited by Mr. Anderson

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Greetings Joe, how refreshing to see more christians join Shiachat,

I thank you also for taking the time to ask muslims of their beliefs, rath

Islam teaches that man is responsible for his or her own deeds. Despite this, we are enveloped in Gods all encompassing mercy. This world is a test, for us to realise the truth and beauty in obeying and serving the creator of all we can see, and that which we can not see. 

In serving him and striving in his way, do we truly become liberated and know our real worth.

Jesus Christ, peace be upon him, did not die in our belief, on the Cross. It was made to appear so - some believe the one who framed him was cursed by God and made to appear as him and put in his place. 

To us, Jesus Christ peace be upon him, was one of the best messengers, the five ulul-azam prophets - among them are Noah, Moses, Abraham, peace be upon them as well as Muhammed s.a.w

He came not to take us to him, but Jesus came to take us to God the Father, who is one God, indivisible and truly - alone- worthy of worship.

 

Edited by Tawheed313

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13 hours ago, 6Roman6Catholic6 said:

@magma666 is the number of the Beast in Revelation in the Christian bible. Its a very important number in Chistianity. 

Peace, 

Scientists at Oxford University were able to read fragments of one of the oldest manuscripts of Revelation by using advanced imaging technology. The manuscript, called Papyrus 115 (P115) and (P115) was discovered in Oxyrhynchus (Al-Bahnasa, Egypt). Dating back to the 3rd century, it states the number of the beast as 616 (Greek: χις) with the use of (ι) instead of (ξ) like most manuscripts. David Parker, a Professor of New Testament Textual Criticism and Palaeography at the University of Birmingham, believes that the number 616 is the original one despite the fact that the number (666) is easier to remember. He says, “Scientists have discussed the issue considerably and there is disagreement. Currently, it seems that 616 is the original number for the Beast. And it is the most likely one since the manuscript precedes the other version by almost 100 years.”

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23 hours ago, 6Roman6Catholic6 said:

@magma I felt compelled to. If you don't like it, I understand. I'm just here because I think Shia Islam is very beautiful. 

Do you also find beasts beautiful? Many historians say the number 666 symbolises emperor Nero. He was a real beast. 

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Islam teaches that God made someone else look like Jesus and that Jesus didn't really die.  The problem I have with this is it makes God a huge deceiver and Jesus a complete failure of a prophet.  Who would be able to see past God's deception?  In Islam, God started Christianity and didn't bother to correct anyone for 600 years.

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Hi Roman Catholic,

Welcome to Shiachat. --- It is good that you are reading the Quran, but it is good to compare it with the Gospels. --- However I am familiar with the verse you are referring to here:

Quote: I am of the belief that when Allah said that Jesus was not killed or crucified, Allah was simply saying that "the Jews" did not kill or crucify Jesus. But, that it was made to appear that they did. When in reality it was the Romans that killed Jesus, but it appeared that the Jews were responsible when they were not, Even though the Jews rejected Jesus as the Messiah.

Response: --- The Jews had said that they killed the Messiah, and in the Scriptures they watched the crucifixion until they saw Jesus dying ON THE CROSS, and then they left. --- Here it is in the Gospel of Luke 23:

44 Now it was about the sixth hour, and there was darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.

45 Then the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was torn in two.

46 And when Jesus had cried out with a loud voice, He said, "Father, ‘into Your hands I commit My spirit.’" Having said this, He breathed His last.

48 And the whole crowd who came together to that sight, seeing what had been done, beat their breasts and returned.

49 But all His acquaintances, and the women who followed Him from Galilee, stood at a distance, watching these things.

So, you see the Jews were there to see that He died, --- But the Romans didn't kill him either, as you said, --- the reality was that, 'HE GAVE UP HIS SPIRIT.'

It says in Matthew 28:

41 Likewise the chief priests also, mocking with the scribes and elders, said,

42 "He saved others; Himself He cannot save. If He is the King of Israel, let Him now come down from the cross, and we will believe Him.[

 

50 "And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit."

It says also in Mark 15:

29 And those who passed by blasphemed Him, wagging their heads and saying, "Aha! You who destroy the temple and build it in three days,

30 save Yourself, and come down from the cross!"

31 Likewise the chief priests also, mocking among themselves with the scribes, said, "He saved others; Himself He cannot save.

37 "And Jesus cried out with a loud voice, and breathed His last."

 

And John was standing by the cross with Mary, Jesus' Mother, and others in John 19:

25 Now there stood by the cross of Jesus His mother, and His mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene.

26 When Jesus therefore saw His mother, and the disciple (John) whom He loved standing by, He said to His mother, "Woman, behold your son!"

27 Then He said to the disciple, "Behold your mother!" And from that hour that disciple took her to his own home.

28 After this, Jesus, knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the Scripture might be fulfilled, said, "I thirst!"

29 Now a vessel full of sour wine was sitting there; and they filled a sponge with sour wine, put it on hyssop, and put it to His mouth.

30 So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, "It is finished!" And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.

 

You see, in each Gospel account it says that Jesus 'gave up His spirit.'

However, it does say this, that happened after Jesus was dead, in John 19:

31 Therefore, because it was the Preparation Day, that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

32 Then the soldiers came and broke the legs of the first and of the other who was crucified with Him.

33 But when they came to Jesus and saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs.

34 But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out.

35 And he who has seen has testified, and his testimony is true; and he knows that he is telling the truth, so that you may believe. --- (This was the testimony of the Apostle John, who was there when it happened and who wrote the Gospel account.)

Now we can go to the verse you read from, but the context says that the Jews broke their covenant, --- and killed the Messenger of God, in Surah 4:

155. (They [the Jews] have incurred divine displeasure): In that they broke their covenant; that they rejected the Signs of God, that they slew the Messenger in defiance of right; that they said, "Our hearts are the wrappings (which preserve God's Word; We need no more)";- Nay, God hath set the seal on their hearts for their blasphemy, and little is it they believe;-

156. That they rejected Faith; that they uttered against Mary a grave false charge;

157. That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of God;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them,

--- "So it was made to appear to them." --- The Jews who were mocking Him on the cross saw Him being crucified, and it appeared that He would die from the crucifixion, so they were boasting that they had killed Jesus, but the Jews didn't kill Him, nor did the Romans, --- but He gave up His spirit, which is physicsl death, --- the separation of body and spirit.

 

And the last part of the verse is the mystery to unbelievers, "How did He die?"

He was put on the cross alive, and a few hours later, they took Him down dead. Those who die by crucifixion may live 2 days or longer. --- However, in this case they wanted to take them off the cross before sunset, and they would break their legs so that the body would immediately slump down and suffocate them. --- "When they came to Jesus, He was already dead," --- so that created the mystery, "How did He die?"

--- "And those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they (the Jews) killed him not.

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In speaking to Muhammad, Gabriel said this

Quote

 

4:162, 

But those of them who are firm in knowledge and the believers believe in that which is revealed unto thee, and that which was revealed before thee, especially the diligent in prayer and those who pay the poor-due, the believers in Allah and the Last Day. Upon these We shall bestow immense reward.

 

Those firm in knowledge of this mystery could only be those close enough to witness it first hand, or learned of it and believed. That would be the Disciples who went on to preach a risen saviour. 

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6 hours ago, DoJustice_LoveMercy said:

Islam teaches that God made someone else look like Jesus and that Jesus didn't really die.  The problem I have with this is it makes God a huge deceiver and Jesus a complete failure of a prophet.  Who would be able to see past God's deception?  In Islam, God started Christianity and didn't bother to correct anyone for 600 years.

I agree, it would not have been a fair action by God. But the Quran does not say someone replaced Jesus. This is just one of many possible explanations that can come out of the vague words of the Quran. Did Jesus kill himself before the Crucifixion had effect? In my opinion this makes no difference. The Quran does not say Jesus killed himself, and the authors of the Gospels, like everybody else, believed Jesus died from the crucifixion.  "Give up the spirit" , simply means "die". No reason to make things complicated. 

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On Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 10:21 PM, 6Roman6Catholic6 said:

Hello, I am Joe

I have read up a bit on Islam. I know that Islam is the second largest religion on earth, and that it is growing at a faster rate than Christianity at this point in time. From everything I have read Islam claims a "mysterious" raising up of Jesus to God in Heaven without Jesus having been killed on the cross. And, that someone else was made to have the appearance of Jesus. Most often I have read that Muslims believe that Judas, the betrayer of Jesus was the person Crucified. I have read much of the Quran, and nowhere does it say this is what happened. I am of the belief that when Allah said that Jesus was not killed or crucified, Allah was simply saying that "the Jews" did not kill or crucify Jesus. But, that it was made to appear that they did. When in reality it was the Romans that killed Jesus, but it appeared that the Jews were responsible when they were not, Even though the Jews rejected Jesus as the Messiah.

In the name of peace and humility

It can also mean that the Yews did kill and crucifi him but that did not make him dead or humiliate him. Remember in Quran it says that those who die as martyrs are not dead they are alive and ascent up to heaven so they are not humiliated.

Do not worry Islam is growing it is the will of God and it is allways for the outmost good.

Praise be to the perfect triunion God

Edited by sefket83

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Also in the Quran it is Jesus who has the name Al Masih meaning the outmost annoited not physical king but spiritual. 

Remeber in Quran it says the Jews will be punished because they said lies about Jesus and his high virgin mother will be cleansed of their sayings also she is made to be above all women.

Jesus was given the name Christ and you know what that signifies also I see it degrading to view the body of Al Masih as human with faults so he must been a most pious prophet and messenger of the Holy Spirit, Christ and The lord of the worlds in heaven.

Also in the Quran it says that the followers of Jesus will be above all disbelivers until judgment day.

Edited by sefket83

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On 5/30/2016 at 9:07 PM, sefket83 said:

Also in the Quran it is Jesus who has the name Al Masih meaning the outmost annoited not physical king but spiritual. 

Remeber in Quran it says the Jews will be punished because they said lies about Jesus and his high virgin mother will be cleansed of their sayings also she is made to be above all women.

Jesus was given the name Christ and you know what that signifies also I see it degrading to view the body of Al Masih as human with faults so he must been a most pious prophet and messenger of the Holy Spirit, Christ and The lord of the worlds in heaven.

Also in the Quran it says that the followers of Jesus will be above all disbelivers until judgment day.

Hello sefket,

Is it possible for you to quote these verses? You may have an easier time at finding them then I.

 

salam

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Hi Jafar moe,

The reference to the last statement is Surah 3:

55. Yusuf Ali: Behold! Allah said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.

56. "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

 

3:55 Khalifa: Thus, GOD said, "O Jesus, I am terminating your life, raising you to Me, and ridding you of the disbelievers. I will exalt those who follow you above those who disbelieve, till the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is the ultimate destiny of all of you, then I will judge among you regarding your disputes.

56 "As for those who disbelieve, I will commit them to painful retribution in this world, and in the Hereafter. They will have no helpers."

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On 5/30/2016 at 9:55 AM, DoJustice_LoveMercy said:

Islam teaches that God made someone else look like Jesus and that Jesus didn't really die.  The problem I have with this is it makes God a huge deceiver and Jesus a complete failure of a prophet.  Who would be able to see past God's deception?  In Islam, God started Christianity and didn't bother to correct anyone for 600 years.

Salam DoJustice_LoveMercy,

Agreed. The idea that God would do such a thing makes no sense. This idea also does not take into consideration the prophecies God gave to the Children of Israel that foretell the suffering and death, as well as the resurrection of God's "servant" - which is the Christ (Anointed One).

The Qur'an does not address Zechariah 12 and Psalm 22, 34, etc. at all, whereas the New Testament accounts how Jesus fulfills different prophecies:

The man who saw it has given testimony, and his testimony is true. He knows that he tells the truth, and he testifies so that you also may believe. These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled: “Not one of his bones will be broken,”[Exodus 12:46; Num. 9:12; Psalm 34:20] and, as another scripture says, “They will look on the one they have pierced.”[Zech. 12:10] -- John 19:35-37 (NIV)

And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplication; and they shall look unto Me because they have thrust him through; and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his first-born.   Zechariah 12:10

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt2312.htm

Matthew 27 includes many prophecies from Psalm 22 being fulfilled, such as Jesus being mocked, being crucified (which includes bones coming out of joints), being thirsty, his garments being divided among the soldiers with them casting lots, his cry to God, and his resurrection!

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt2622.htm

If Jesus did not die on the cross, then Psalm 22 would not have been fulfilled. That's just a simple fact. Jesus Christ fulfills Psalm 22, which is why he quoted Psalm 22:2 - to draw attention to the fact that he was in the process of fulfilling Psalm 22 in that very moment.

In order for Jesus to even be the Christ, he has to fulfill the Scripture that God gave to the Children of Israel. That including suffering and dying, as well as resurrecting from the dead: fulfilling Isaiah 53:

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt1053.htm

Peace and God bless you

 

 

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