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In the Name of God بسم الله
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Qasim_Husayn

How to prove that Allah is all just

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I think it is better not to use the word "prove" when referring to God because it makes it sound like we have scientific evidence. In stead, it is best to say that reasoning and common sense leads to the conclusion that there ought to be a Supreme entity with specific attributes. Having said that, the are many reasons and convincing arguments in support of God's justice. For example, Justice is a reflection of balance and equilibrium. So if an omnipotent God was unjust, His volatile nature or actions would mean chaos in universe (or call it multi-verse) making it impossible for many known things to survive. Therefore the fact that we exist, while relying on so many ingredients of universe as well as physical laws, is a good enough case for a Just God. One might claim that there is so much of destruction happening at the same time in the entire universe, which is true, but can it not be argued that simultaneous destruction may be the necessary ingredient of balance in the known existence? 

At a very layman level, I for one also appreciate the fact that there is no favouritism while we're being tested i.e every one is entitled to benefit from nature. 

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Allah(SWT) is Just in that on the Day of Judgement He is going to bless the oppressed and wreak havoc on the oppressors.

That's justice to me.

And like Abbas said, God Judges without favoritism - no difference in Judgement based on sex, race, etc.. that's Justice.

I'm not sure if that answers your question but I thought I'd put my thoughts out there.

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Qasim_Husayn said:

It violates the principle of justice only if you believe that this existence is your final destination, which it is not according to Islam or other Abrahamic religions. On the contrary, it is your 'examination hall' or a 'platform'.

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1 hour ago, Abbas. said:

It violates the principle of justice only if you believe that this existence is your final destination, which it is not according to Islam or other Abrahamic religions. On the contrary, it is your 'examination hall' or a 'platform'.

I guess you have to say that, and yet, even if one believes that this existence is your final destination, the visible amount of misery/suffering/pain in this world is really not compatible with the God in the benevolent form described by organised religions.

Incidentally I don't think those little suffering minds and bodies can afford the luxury of 'thinking' what their final destination might be. 

*

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7 hours ago, Quisant said:

I guess you have to say that, and yet, even if one believes that this existence is your final destination, the visible amount of misery/suffering/pain in this world is really not compatible with the God in the benevolent form described by organised religions.

Incidentally I don't think those little suffering minds and bodies can afford the luxury of 'thinking' what their final destination might be. 

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There is a flaw to this, because really, one can define suffering in any way, shape or form.

For example, i could accidently scratch my hand against something and be in total pain.

For sake of argument, say that was the only pain that had ever occurred in this world.

You could then argue, still, if a God is just, and merciful, and kind , and benevolent, why did he allow that scratch ?

Even if i had one cough, or one moment where , for a fraction of a second i felt even slight nausea, and returned to peak health and felt perfect, even that microsecond in your argument could still be forwarded to say, why does God allow any suffering at all?

It all stems from a very superficial and simplistic understanding of benevolence, mercy, justice and his attributes. 

Edited by Tawheed313

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7 hours ago, Tawheed313 said:

There is a flaw to this, because really, one can define suffering in any way, shape or form.

For example, i could accidently scratch my hand against something and be in total pain.

For sake of argument, say that was the only pain that had ever occurred in this world.

You could then argue, still, if a God is just, and merciful, and kind , and benevolent, why did he allow that scratch ?

Even if i had one cough, or one moment where , for a fraction of a second i felt even slight nausea, and returned to peak health and felt perfect, even that microsecond in your argument could still be forwarded to say, why does God allow any suffering at all?

Nobody is talking about accidentally scratching your hand against something or a slight nausea due to cough; look at the link posted by Qasim_Husayn again and reflect a little. Globally, ten million infants and children die each year before their fifth birthday. 
Try to look at reality in the face instead of hiding your head in the sands of hypothetical scenarios.

A Benevolent God always chooses the path that causes most good.
Benevolence is the desire for good, the desire that there not be suffering/evil.
It implies the will to remove suffering.
How do you define Benevolence?

The observable amount of misery/suffering/pain in this world is simply not consistent with the notion of an Almighty Benevolent God. 
 

7 hours ago, Tawheed313 said:

It all stems from a very superficial and simplistic understanding of benevolence, mercy, justice and his attributes. 

 

Again, please tell me how can a God be both Just and Merciful? 

Being Just means enacting punishment appropriate to the crime and being Merciful means forgiving or enacting lesser punishment than that fits the crime.  
Any time God forgives a sin, he could have been more just, any time he punishes, he could have been merciful. 

wslm.

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5 hours ago, Quisant said:

Nobody is talking about accidentally scratching your hand against something or a slight nausea due to cough; look at the link posted by Qasim_Husayn again and reflect a little. Globally, ten million infants and children die each year before their fifth birthday. 
Try to look at reality in the face instead of hiding your head in the sands of hypothetical scenarios.

A Benevolent God always chooses the path that causes most good.
Benevolence is the desire for good, the desire that there not be suffering/evil.
It implies the will to remove suffering.
How do you define Benevolence?

The observable amount of misery/suffering/pain in this world is simply not consistent with the notion of an Almighty Benevolent God. 
 

 

Again, please tell me how can a God be both Just and Merciful? 

Being Just means enacting punishment appropriate to the crime and being Merciful means forgiving or enacting lesser punishment than that fits the crime.  
Any time God forgives a sin, he could have been more just, any time he punishes, he could have been merciful. 

wslm.

*

 

We all die at some point, is death itself unjust?

Lets take the issue that you raised about children. You are saying that because some children die young, that is unjust, and a Just God would not allow this, therefore God either doesnt exist or is not just. 

Lets re-examine the premise of this notion, which is, does the child's suffering equal injustice? For it to be so, that child must have some sort of right for a full and painless life, to my knowledge none of us have such a right. Secondly health and well being is the general rule and suffering is the exception, if it were the other way around, your point may have more weight, but its not. The fact that we see and hear or even experience some suffering may have a greater purpose and limiting our thinking to just the feeling of the moment is ignoring a much bigger reality.

For example, when I have an exam, I have to study. I deny myself pleasure, I can not play with friends etc, I am suffering. However when the exam comes and I do well, I am aware that the suffering provided me with a greater good. 

If we take your example of children to the absolute maximum, why am I not God? Why am I only a human, and not able to do anything and everything that I want? This makes the issue much clearer. If we accept that humanity has a purpose, then the answer is obvious. 

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:bismillah:

On 5/28/2016 at 8:21 AM, Qasim_Husayn said:

Alaikom Salam

Zolm-injustice - is ghabih-ugly - and God never does anything ghabih and doing zolm has some factors behind it that Allah is pure from them.

Roots of zolm: 1. Need, 2. Ignorance and not knowing, 3. Immorality, 4. Deficit/incapable and not being able to reach the desired result without doing zolm. All zolm is in connection because of these 4 categories; if it was not for these categories no injustice would occur to anyone in any place.

Moreover, God does not fall under any of these categories because of four reasons: God is 1. Complete Needless of anyone; as having the legacy on being not in need, completely, 2. His knowledge is unlimited without end and belongs to His own essence, 3. Has all the Sifat-attributes - of perfection and pure from all defects, 4. Having power without ending and unlimited, because of all this he is just. [if remember right, taken from sheikh qaraati usul book]

On 5/27/2016 at 7:27 PM, Qasim_Husayn said:

Salam,

I've got evidence that god is necessary, uncaused immaterial, personal, omnipotent and transcendent.

But how do I know this god is just. How can one proves god's justice

Just a clarification, with immaterial it means, God is not made of any kind of material be it from physical world or spiritual sphere [no jism]. THE ISSUE OR OUR ISSUE IS ABOUT Gods justice specifically and not necessarily about the concept of justice with all out general sense.

Adl is not from attributes of essence of Allah like Hayat; Ilm, but is from attributes of action, so Adl is in opposite of Jawr and the worship of Jaher in the view of Aql is disliked; then, first condition to obey Allah is belief in Justice of Allah.

We believe that God is Just.

Allah is wise, and no injustice in God's work.

He does not put responsibility to His creation [Human] which they can not perform and do: ability wise.

Allah does not give a duty to one when there is no way to achieve it, specially for a particular individual and each individual has responsibility based on what they can achieve.

Allah does not punish anyone for an act they have not performed.

Allah does not blame any creation for what God has created in them.

Asharites [once upon a time Allah will] has opposed our beliefs and their belief is as such that the injustice of oppressors and the corruption of those corrupted is returned to God, that is they belief more that God makes people the situation that they become kafir, mushrik, [hypocrite and corrupter], so as result hinder them from having belief and doing goodness.

Asharites reason as such that Intellect-aql -, has not the ability to give 'judgement' on God and to give opinion on God.

The intellect help us specially in case of attributes of God if we intellectualize we will gain rational recognition for example that Allah is not jism, so we do not refer with attribute of jism to Allah. One time we may understand the light of candle and lamp and further the way: the light of the sun but maybe we have difficulty to understand the light of other stronger/bigger suns because of not having it above us, from other stand point it may require spiritual endeavor to understand the heavenly lights like 'noor' that is also refereed in the ahadith and holy Quran. Everything takes time, there is no skipping class and success. So to understand more clear the issue of jism takes time or generally attributes of God [have and not have attributes].

Further more if God was not just there would be no act of creating, so Allah deserves to be worshiped as a thanks for giving us life and bringing us into existence from nothing, no prior plan and model to look out for. If a human being could create a great invention, and he would not do so, it would be considered an ugly and undesired act, and not something nice out of the blue based on wisdom. If God has the attribute of justice; God than has also other attributes example, Hikmah-wisdom - and both of these attributes can not go against each OTHER, that is God can not be wise but unjust.

We can not say God is justice, because God is not the attribute of justice but have/possess justice; so we can say God is just-Adel -, God is knowledgeable-Alim -, Qader and so on.

R: Note 1, note 2

Edited by Ali.Isa
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On 28/05/2016 at 4:27 AM, Qasim_Husayn said:

Salam,

I've got evidence that god is necessary, uncaused immaterial, personal, omnipotent and transcendent.

But how do I know this god is just. How can one proves god's justice

God is just because:

He has given all things rights as per their capacity and capability and nature. For exanple:- he asked rich to pay charity and poor to receive it. He caused man liable to secure his woman coz he has more physical strength as compared to woman. He caused woman to raise children coz she is more gentle than his husband and can feed and raise children well as compared to man. He caused all humans as belonging to one family and maintains that piety is criteria of superiority.  He divided people in races for recognition and gave different faces so that each recognizer other but human made it question of nationalism which led to fights and feuds. Whatever he did was for the benefit of humans. For goodness he promised virtues and peaceful heart and Heaven and for sins he promised humiliation, dissatisfied heart and hell.

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The only way to know if God exists, is to know there is no other god besides God.

And if you know that, you will know that his greatness encompasses all praise and is the source of all praise.

And if you know that, you will definitely know he is just.

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One way to know there is no God but God, is to know due to us having an exact value we have a perfect observer that maintain our existence and is judging justly, and upholds every soul by what it has earned. Had this judge just judgement not existed, we would not have an exact value to who we are. We do have an exact value, therefore, a just perfect observe who maintains who we are exists.

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