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In the Name of God بسم الله

Do the imams of shiaism have ilm ul ghaib (knowledge of the unseen) ?

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Bismillah. Salaam. Of course ʻIlm al-Qayb is Allah's matter because He is the source of ʻIlm but it is not impossible that Allah (s.w.t.) informs some people from His ʻIlm, neither ratio

Dear brother - Is the above your personal opinion or is it the opinion of the ulema of those who call themselves Muslims but do not take Prophet's Ahlulbayt as their guiding light?  

guys lets not forget this quote from OP, to put his sneaky, conniving threads into a little context.  he is a liar, pretending to Love Imam Hussain (as) but accepting a sa

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1 hour ago, sunnilove2hussain said:

Do shias think or believe that their imams have ilm ul ghaib (knowledge of the unseen) ?

Yes

44 minutes ago, sunnilove2hussain said:

Allah (swt) alone has ilm ul ghaib and no one else,believing otherwise is equal to attributing something to others that is exclusive to Allah (swt) and i think they call it "shirk".

Only Allah gives knowledge and Allah decided to give the Prophet and Imams part of his knowledge. 'They' may call it 'shirk' but we are not 'they'

Basically you are saying Allah 'cant' give some of his knowledge to someone thereby doing shirk yourself.

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God has ulm al ghaib, but does that mean that god can't give some of it to some one else?

 

قوله تعالى : عالم الغيب فلا يظهر على غيبه أحدا إلا من ارتضى من رسول فإنه يسلك من بين يديه ومن خلفه 

Didn't god also some to his prophet?

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"I have come to you with a sign from your Lord; I will create for you out of clay a figure of a bird, then I will breath into it, and it will be a bird by leave of Allah; I will also heal the blind and the leper, and bring to life the dead, by leave of Allah. I will also inform you of what things you eat and what you treasure up in your houses. Surely, in that is a sign for you, if you are believers.”(Qur’an 3:49; see also 5:110)

"He possesses the Ghayb and He does not discloses His Ghayb to anyone except to such a Messenger as He is well-pleased with.”(Qur’an 72:26-27).

The Knowledge Of The Book

Qur’an mentions the second type of knowledge, explained above, which has been released to the prophets and the Imams. This is the knowledge of what has been foreordained and the knowledge of the rules governing the universe. This type of knowledge is known as "the knowledge of the Book". 

http://www.al-islam.org/shiite-encyclopedia-ahlul-bayt-dilp-team/knowledge-unseen-knowledge-book#knowledge-book

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. "I do not say to you that I possess the treasures of God, nor do I know the future, nor do I say that I am an angel. Nor do I say of those who are despicable in your eyes that God will never give them any good. God is Aware of what lies in their souls. If I did, I would be one of the wrongdoers." - AlQuran 11:31 :) So what's the intepretaion of this verse? Seems pretty clear to me 

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2 hours ago, sunnilove2hussain said:

. "I do not say to you that I possess the treasures of God, nor do I know the future, nor do I say that I am an angel. Nor do I say of those who are despicable in your eyes that God will never give them any good. God is Aware of what lies in their souls. If I did, I would be one of the wrongdoers." - AlQuran 11:31 :) So what's the intepretaion of this verse? Seems pretty clear to me 

Wa aleykumsalaam,

No, Imams do not have Ilm Ghaib, they do have knowledge of some future event which are open to them, otherwise they are unaware of closed or hidden Knowledge, only Allah knows Ilm Ghaib purely. I would like you to have a look at below hadeeth.

٥ - قال: أخبرني الحسين بن أحمد بن المغيرة (١) قال: أخبرني أبو محمد حيدر بن محمد السمرقندي قال: أخبرني أبو عمرو محمد بن عمرو الكشي قال: حدثنا حمدويه بن نصير قال: حدثنا يعقوب بن يزيد، عن ابن أبي عمير، عن ابن المغيرة قال: كنت أنا ويحيى بن عبد الله بن الحسن عند أبي الحسن عليه السلام فقال له يحيى، جعلت فداك إنهم يزعمون أنك تعلم الغيب، فقال: سبحان الله، ضع يدك على رأسي فوالله ما بقيت شعرة فيه و [لا] في جسدي إلا قامت، ثم قال:لا والله ما هي إلا وراثة عن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله
 
He said: I have been informed by al-Husain b. Ahmad b. al-Mughairah, who reported from Abu Muhammad Haider b. Muhammad al-Samarqandi, who reported from Abu Amru Muhammad b. Amru al-Kashi, who reported from Hamdawayh b. Naseer, who reported from Ya'qoob b. Yazeed, who reported from Ibn Abi Umayr, who reported from Ibn al-Mughairah who said:
 
Yahya b. Abdullah b. al-Hasan and I were with Abul Hasan, peace be upon him, and Yahya asked him: "May I be your ransom, they think that you have the knowledge of the unseen (Ilmul Ghaib)." He said: "Glory be to Allah! Place your hand over my head." When I did that, every hair in my head and on my body stood on its end. Then he said: "No, By Allah, it is nothing but what we have inherited from the Prophet (peace be upon him and his progeny)."
 
Grading:Sayyed al-Khoie:"Saheeh Sanad" (Mu'jam Rijaal al-Hadeeth 21/69)
 
1 - عدة من أصحابنا، عن أحمد بن محمد بن عيسى، عن معمر بن خلاد قال: سأل أبا الحسن عليه السلام رجل من أهل فارس فقال له: أتعلمون الغيب؟ فقال: قال أبو جعفر عليه السلام: يبسط لنا العلم فنعلم ويقبض عنا فلا نعلم، وقال: سر الله عزوجل أسره إلى جبرئيل عليه السلام وأسره جبرئيل إلى محمد صلى الله عليه وآله، وأسرة محمد إلى من شاء الله.
 
A number of our people have narrated from Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn ‘Isa from Mu’ammar ibn Khallad who has said that a man from Persia asked abu al-Hassan, recipient of divine supreme covenant, the following:
 
“Do you know al-Ghayb (the hidden facts)? The Imam, recipient of divine supreme covenant, said, ‘Abu Ja‘far, recipient of divine supreme covenant, has said, “If it opens to us, then we know it, and if it is withheld from us then we do not know.”’ 
The Imam then said, ‘It is the secret of Allah, the Most Holy, the Most High, Who has secretly given it to Jibril and Jibril has secretly given it to Muhammad, recipient of divine supreme covenant, and Muhammad, recipient of divine supreme covenant, has secretly given it to whoever Allah wished.’”
 
Grading:
 
  1. Majlisi:"Saheeh" (Mirat ul uqool 3/110)
  2. Hadi Najafi:"Saheeh Sanad" (Mawsu'at Ahadith Ahl al-Bayt 8/214)
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8 hours ago, sunnilove2hussain said:

. "I do not say to you that I possess the treasures of God, nor do I know the future, nor do I say that I am an angel. Nor do I say of those who are despicable in your eyes that God will never give them any good. God is Aware of what lies in their souls. If I did, I would be one of the wrongdoers." - AlQuran 11:31 :) So what's the intepretaion of this verse? Seems pretty clear to me 

 عَالِمُ الْغَيْبِ فَلَا يُظْهِرُ عَلَىٰ غَيْبِهِ أَحَدًا- إِلَّا مَنِ ارْتَضَىٰ مِن رَّسُولٍ (Meaning - He (alone) knows the Unseen, nor does He make any one acquainted with His Mysteries, except an Apostle whom He has chosen (Prophet Mohammad - SAWS). (Al-Jinn - 26-27).

Ibn Hajar al-`Asqalani explained the above verse as follows:  

It follows from this verse that Prophets can see some of the Unseen, and so do the Awliya Allah  (saints) that follow each particular Prophet also, as each takes from his Prophet and is gifted (yukram) with his knowledge. The difference between the two is that the Prophet looks at this knowledge through all kinds of revelation, while the saint does not look upon it except in dreams or through inspiration, and Allah knows best. 

(Fath al-bari (1989 ed. 8:660) Tafsir Surat Luqman, "Allah has knowledge of the Hour" (31:34)

http://www.correctislamicfaith.com/theknowledgeofunseen.htm

The sunni reference is given above.

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9 hours ago, sunnilove2hussain said:

. "I do not say to you that I possess the treasures of God, nor do I know the future, nor do I say that I am an angel. Nor do I say of those who are despicable in your eyes that God will never give them any good. God is Aware of what lies in their souls. If I did, I would be one of the wrongdoers." - AlQuran 11:31 :) So what's the intepretaion of this verse? Seems pretty clear to me 

Bismillah.

Salaam.

Of course ʻIlm al-Qayb is Allah's matter because He is the source of ʻIlm but it is not impossible that Allah (s.w.t.) informs some people from His ʻIlm, neither rationally nor textually; this is why He says in the Qur'an:

عالِمُ الْغَيْبِ فَلا يُظْهِرُ عَلى‏ غَيْبِهِ‏ أَحَداً – إِلاَّ مَنِ ارْتَضى‏ مِنْ رَسُولٍ فَإِنَّهُ يَسْلُكُ مِنْ بَيْنِ يَدَيْهِ وَ مِنْ خَلْفِهِ رَصَدا

"Knower of the Unseen, He does not disclose His Unseen to anyone – except to an apostle He approves of. Then He dispatches a sentinel before and behind him." (72:26-27)

So please put this verse next to the verse you've mentioned and reach to a rational explanation!

With Duas.

Narsis.

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Can anyone other than Allah (swt) be aware of the unseen?

Three key points need to be made in order to answer your question thoroughly:

1- What is the Unseen?

Gheyb”; meaning that the sun became hidden and unseen. [2]غابت الشمس; meaning that anything that is hidden from you is considered gheyb and unseen. [1] This is why when the sun sets, Arabs say: “الغیب: کل ما غاب عنک or unseen, means for something to be concealed from the senses. It is defined as:

When this term is used as the opposite of shahadah or “the seen”, which is a Quranic and theological term, it refers to something metaphysical and outside this natural world that can't be sensed with the normal senses and if one ever wants to actually sense it, he will need to use other methods.

Allamah Tabatabai says: Gheyb and Shahadah are two proportional concepts, meaning that something might be gheyb in relation with one thing, while being shahadah in relation with another; the reason being that all things in this world have their boundaries they cannot be separated from. Therefore, anything that comes inside their boundaries will be subject to their comprehension, thus making them shahadah, because they are something that is comprehended by them. On the other hand, anything that doesn’t enter their boundaries will be gheyb, because it is something that isn't subject to their comprehension.” [3]

2- Who is aware of the gheyb (unseen) and possesses its knowledge?

What the explanation of gheyb given above entails, is that knowledge of the gheyb and being aware of the unseen, is something that only Allah (swt) completely possesses, because He is the only one who has total dominion and awareness of the entire universe and everything it encompasses; nothing lays outside His existential boundaries, and nothing can conceal itself from Him. This subject has been pointed to in different ways by the Holy Quran:

“Allah is the Knower of the Unseen and The Visible; and He is the Supreme Exalted Great” [4]

“They say:" Why was not a Miracle Sent down upon him from his Creator and Nurturer?" Say [O, Messenger!]:" The knowledge of the Unseen is only For Allah” [5]

“Say," No one in the heavens or the earth knows the Unseen except Allah” [6]

The first thing one understands from such verses is that no one other than Allah (swt) is completely aware of the unseen, nevertheless, there are verses that state that there are others of those who are apostles of Allah (swt) who also know some things regarding it:

“Allah will not acquaint you with the Unseen, but Allah chooses from His apostles whomever He wishes [to inform of the unseen]” [7]

“Knower of the Unseen, He does not disclose His Unseen to anyone, except to an apostle He approves of” [8]

When speaking of Prophet Isa’s (pbuh) miracles, the Quran says:

“And I will tell you what you have eaten and what you have stored in your houses” [9]

In addition to these verses, there are also many hadiths that show that the prophet (pbuh) and imams (as) have some knowledge of the unseen; this knowledge being in two forms:

The first form being when the prophet (pbuh) would inform of revelation being revealed; this itself is a form of the unseen which he had.

The second form: The precise prophecies they made, like when the prophet (pbuh) informed of the battle of Mutah (موته) and of the martyrdom of Jafar and other commanders of the Islamic army while he was in Medinah with the people, right when it all happened. [10] In many hadiths, the knowledge of the imams regarding the unseen has been emphasized. [11] One can claim that these hadiths even reach the degree of tawatur. [12]

As for how the hadiths and the second group of verses mentioned (that imply that others other than Allah (swt) are also aware of the unseen) aren't in contradiction with the first (that imply it is only Allah (swt) who has knowledge of the unseen), one can say the following:

1- Knowledge of the gheyb originally and primarily belongs to Allah (swt). He independently possesses it without anyone else having given it to Him, but others who might possess some of it, never independently obtain it, it is always bestowed upon them by Allah (swt), making them dependant on Him for it.

2- Allah (swt) is the only one to know every single detail of the unseen, while others only have a general overview.

3- Allah (swt) knows of all secrets of the unseen at the very moment and others aren't, yet only if Allah (swt) wills, they can be informed as well, or if they will, given that their will is backed by Allah's (swt). Imam Sadiq (as) has been reported saying: “Whenever the imam wishes to know something, Allah (swt) teaches him.” [13]

In addition to this, there are verses that speak of a specific type of knowledge that is obtained through self-building and practicing religion and spirituality and movement towards the truth. Verses like: “O you who have faith! If you are wary of Allah, He shall appoint a criterion for you [enabling you to distinguish between right and wrong], and absolve you of your misdeeds, and forgive you, for Allah is dispenser of a great grace”. [14]

Also, when Imam Ali (as) would recite the verse: “…by men whom neither trading nor bargaining distracts from the remembrance of Allah…” [15], he would say: “Certainly, Allah (swt), the Glorified, the Sublime, has made His remembrance the light for hearts which hear with its help despite deafness, see with its help despite blindness and become submissive with its help despite unruliness. In all the periods and times when there were no prophets, there have been persons with whom Alláh, precious are His bounties, whispered through their wits and spoke through their minds”. [16]

3- The third central point of this discussion:

Now we will engage in discussing a bit about verse 34 of surah Luqman:

“Indeed the knowledge of the Hour is with Allah. He sends down the rain, and He knows what is in the wombs. No soul knows what it will earn tomorrow, and no soul knows in what land it will die. Indeed Allah is all-knowing, all-aware”. [17]

There are two explanations for this verse:

1- This verse correlates with the verse preceding it which speaks of the hereafter; it speaks of things that are of the unseen belonging only to Allah (swt), which we call “knowledge of the unseen”. This verse points to five things that are all of the unseen:

a) Knowing when the hereafter will take place: This is something the mushriks have asked the prophet (pbuh) about many times: “When is the hereafter?” [18] The Quran answers them saying: “Indeed the Hour is bound to come: I will have it hidden, so that every soul may be rewarded for what it strives for”. [19]

b) When it will rain: The knowledge of when and where it will exactly rain and how much, are all in the possession of Allah (swt), and others can only guess about them.

c) What is in the womb of mothers: Meaning the gender and inner and outer characteristics of the fetus. Therefore, although there are ways of finding out its gender, yet there is no way to find out about its physical and spiritual traits, potentials and thousands of other characteristics that it has; all of this is only known of by Allah (swt). [20] Also, the future of the fetus and whether it will reach salvation or damnation in this world are all things that only Allah (swt) can know of.

d) Future incidents and their details and what each person will do in the future.

e) And finally, where every person will die.

According to this explanation and interpretation or tafsir, all of the above are considered part of the unseen, whose knowledge only belongs to Allah (swt). If one asks: “Then how come some of the above were known by the imams according to hadiths?”, the answer will be that knowing only a portion of them through Allah's (swt) teaching is in no contradiction with the exclusive allocation of their detailed knowledge to Allah (swt). At the same time, they (the infallibles) aren't independent in their knowledge, but are totally dependent on Allah's (swt) teaching, to the amount He sees fit. [21]

2- Some sections of this verse differ from others; their way of speaking and tone varies. The first phrase of this verse tells us that the knowledge of when the hereafter will take place only belongs to him and no one else is aware of it. According to Arabic literature rules, this exclusiveness can be concluded by the fact that the word “عنده” has been mentioned before “علم الساعة”. Other verses also stress that such knowledge only belongs to Allah (swt).

But in the second section of the verse, we see that the verses style of speech changes and there is no implication of exclusiveness. What can be concluded from this part is that Allah (swt) is aware of when it will rain and what is in the wombs of mothers, without anything being said about anyone else knowing or not.

Therefore, Allah's (swt) knowledge regarding when it will rain and the fetus in the womb of the mother, in no way means that certain servants of His also can't learn of them in other ways such as divine revelation and inspiration. The only difference between Allah's (swt) knowledge and their’s being that His originally belongs to Him, while others acquire and obtain it and it doesn’t essentially belong to them.

In the fourth and fifth parts of the verse, its tone changes even more. They mainly speak of the fact that Allah (swt) knows where each person will die. Not knowing where one will die is in conformity with nature’s laws that say no one essentially knows of the unseen and what is going on on the other side, nevertheless, this doesn’t mean that Allah (swt) can't inform any of His servants of their future and where they will die. [22]

To sum it all up, this second interpretation of the verse says that with help from other verses and the first part of this verse, one concludes that knowing of when the hereafter will take place is something that only Allah (swt) knows of and no one else.

http://www.islamquest.net/en/archive/question/6220

More info at:

http://www.islamquest.net/en/archive/question/fa3259

http://www.islamquest.net/en/archive/question/fa953

http://www.islamquest.net/en/archive/question/fa3667


[1] Seyyid Ali Akbar Qureyshi, Qamuse Quran, vol. 5, pg. 133.

[2] Ibn Fares, Mu’jam Maqayisil-Lughah, root word “غیب”.

[3] Al-Mizan, vol. 11, pg. 418.

[4] Rad: 9.

[5] Yunus: 20.

[6] Nahl: 65.

[7] Ale-Imran: 179 This verse implies that Allah (swt) his messengers of the unseen.

[8] Jinn: 26-27.

[9] Ale-Imran: 49.

[10] Ibn Athir, Al-Kamel fil-Tarikh, vol. 2, pg. 237.

[11] See: Kuleini, Usul Kafi, vol. 1, there are different chapters on this subject; Muhammad Baqir Majlisi, Biharul-Anwar, vol. 26.

[12] Tawatur is a hadithic term referring to a certain concept or story being repeated many times in different hadiths, to the extent that one becomes sure that it isn't possible for all narrators of the hadiths to have been mistaken or lying.

[13] See: Usul-Kafi, vol. 1, chapter “ان الائمة اذا شاؤوا ان یعلموا علموا”, hadith 3.

[14] Anfal: 29.

[15] Nur: 37.

[16] Nahjul-Balaghah, sermon 220.

[17] This is the verse itself:

الله عنده علم الساعة و ینزّل الغیث و یعلم ما فی الارحام و ماتدری نفس ماذا تکسب غداً و ماتدری نفس بایّ ارض تموت انّ الله علیم خبیر

[18] Isra: 51.

[19] Taha: 15.

[20] Naser Makarem Shirazi, Tafsir Nemouneh, vol. 17, pg. 99.

[21] Ibid, 100.

[22] See: Morabbiye Nemouneh (tafsir of surah Luqman), pp. 211-212.

With Duas.

Narsis.

 

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On 10/5/2016 at 7:49 PM, sunnilove2hussain said:

Do shias think or believe that their imams have ilm ul ghaib (knowledge of the unseen) ?

guys lets not forget this quote from OP, to put his sneaky, conniving threads into a little context. 

On 3/1/2016 at 6:57 PM, sunnilove2hussain said:

I dont think King Salman (ra) will ban Iranians from Hajj,as none of the previous kings of Saud (May Allah be pleased with them) did it,despite poor relations with Iran or Shias.

On 5/1/2016 at 0:04 AM, sunnilove2hussain said:

I may not like your ayatollahs but for the sake of unity,i can't pretend to like them and likewise for the sake of unity,i can't give up on my king. Unity is building beyond barriers and adjustment.

he is a liar, pretending to Love Imam Hussain (as) but accepting a salafi "king", while hating our maraji. all these threads are his pathetic attempts at trolling us

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1 hour ago, DigitalUmmah said:

guys lets not forget this quote from OP, to put his sneaky, conniving threads into a little context. 

 

 

 

he is a liar, pretending to Love Imam Hussain (as) but accepting a salafi "king", while hating our maraji. all these threads are his pathetic attempts at trolling us

Welcome back dude,yes I don't deny of the above,but that was quite some time. With the help of fellow shows,i have grown to like Shia ayatollahs at least Khamenei and fadlallah. As for ale Saud,im not into much liking if them. I'm not explaining myself to you but to other good shias here,who might misunderstand my intentions.

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1 hour ago, sunnilove2hussain said:

Welcome back dude,yes I don't deny of the above,but that was quite some time. With the help of fellow shows,i have grown to like Shia ayatollahs at least Khamenei and fadlallah. As for ale Saud,im not into much liking if them. I'm not explaining myself to you but to other good shias here,who might misunderstand my intentions.

Fooling the slow minded gullible shias on this forum doesnt mean you fool the rest of us, sunni. 

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37 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

Fooling the slow minded gullible shias on this forum doesnt mean you fool the rest of us, sunni. 

Ok great,whatever. Get down off your high horse,no one on this forum is stupid,gullible or slow minded fools or lower than you. Learn to respect others nasibi.

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The imams had knowledge of unseen but only to an extent you see there are some people who have knowledge of unseen today you may see a dream that foreshadows something or vision now if normal people can have this then why not imams and prophets for sure they knew a lot yes they had knowledge of unseen and God gave them this gift 

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12 hours ago, sunnilove2hussain said:

Welcome back dude,yes I don't deny of the above,but that was quite some time. With the help of fellow shows,i have grown to like Shia ayatollahs at least Khamenei and fadlallah. As for ale Saud,im not into much liking if them. I'm not explaining myself to you but to other good shias here,who might misunderstand my intentions.

Your intentions are quite clear to people such as @DigitalUmmah and me at least. You won't succeed as long as people like us are on this site. 

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16 hours ago, sunnilove2hussain said:

Welcome back dude,yes I don't deny of the above,but that was quite some time. With the help of fellow shows,i have grown to like Shia ayatollahs at least Khamenei and fadlallah. As for ale Saud,im not into much liking if them. I'm not explaining myself to you but to other good shias here,who might misunderstand my intentions.

oh really sunni? so what are your opinions on sayed khomeinis words regarding the ilm ul ghayb of the masumeen (as):

http://www.al-islam.org/adab-as-salat-disciplines-of-prayer-second-revised-edition-imam-khomeini/some-comments-blessed-surah-al-qadr 

Quote

 

In short, all the changes, alterations, additions to the lives, and measuring (the peoples') provisions are, as the philosophers believe, in the lawh of “the qadr of knowledge” [qadr-i 'ilmī], which is “the world of ideas” while to the writer, they are in the lawh of “the qadr of objectivity” [qadr-i 'aynī], which is the very place of the measurements done by the angels in charge of it.

Therefore, there is no objection [māni'] that, as “the night of qadr” is the night of full attention of the “perfect guardian” [walīyy-i kāmil] and of the appearance of his heavenly sovereignty, changes and alterations may happen in it, in the world of nature through the honorable person of the “perfect guardian” and the Imām of each era and the pole [qutb] of the time who, in our time, is “Allah's Remainder” [baqiyyatullāh] in the worlds (earths, lands = aradīn), our Master, Patron, Imām, and Guide, the Proof, the son of al-Hasan al-'Askarī, may our souls be ransom for his coming.

So, he may accelerate or slow any individual part of nature that he desires, and enlarge or straiten any provision he wills. And this will is that of the Haqq, and is the shadow and the rays of the Eternal Will and follows the Divine commands, as the angels of Allah, too, can do (change) nothing by themselves. Every act (change = tasarruf), rather every particle of existence, is of Allah and of His unseen grace [latīfah]:

 

 

oh and then there is this:

Quote

 

The third point is that since the night of qadr is the night of disclosure [mukāshafah] to the Messenger of Allah (s) and the Imāms of guidance ('a), all the worldly affairs are uncovered by the unseen malakūt to them, and the angels in charge of every affair appear to them in the invisible world and the world of the heart, and all the affairs which are prescribed for the creatures during the year in the high and low lawhs (tablets), appear to them, heavenly writ and covertly existed, in a disclosure.

And it is a malakūtī exposure [mukāshafah] covering every particle of the world of nature, and no affair of the people's is hidden from the waliyy al-amr. There is no discrepancy in their knowing, in a single night, the affairs of a whole year, or, in an instance, the entire affairs of the world, or, in a single moment, all the measured assignments [muqaddarāt] of mulk and malakūt.

 

as for the idiot shia in this thread going "herp derp the imams may have some knowledge but not all" - shame on you. repent before Allah labels you as a muqassir. 

i suggest you learn your own faith before you start teaching others. 

Look at the belief of your hero sayed khomeini, in one of his most famous, most well read books that he ever wrote in his life. you think other scholars have not read it? you think if his views were not what our core beliefs are, there might have been some sort of reply/ response saying that these are not the views of shia?

 

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On ‎5‎/‎13‎/‎2016 at 4:44 PM, DigitalUmmah said:

repent before Allah labels you as a muqassir.

i suggest you learn your own faith before you start teaching others. 

Look at the belief of your hero sayed khomeini, in one of his most famous, most well read books that he ever wrote in his life. you think other scholars have not read it? you think if his views were not what our core beliefs are, there might have been some sort of reply/ response saying that these are not the views of shia

How do you manage to indirectly insult Khomeini or Khamenei in every single post you make?

Did you just call Khomeini the hero of muqassirs?

Edited by Shaykh Patience101
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To clarify the concept of the Imams knowing 'everything':

Hadeeth #1:
 
٥ - قال: أخبرني الحسين بن أحمد بن المغيرة (١) قال: أخبرني أبو محمد حيدر بن محمد السمرقندي قال: أخبرني أبو عمرو محمد بن عمرو الكشي قال: حدثنا حمدويه بن نصير قال: حدثنا يعقوب بن يزيد، عن ابن أبي عمير، عن ابن المغيرة قال: كنت أنا ويحيى بن عبد الله بن الحسن عند أبي الحسن عليه السلام فقال له يحيى، جعلت فداك إنهم يزعمون أنك تعلم الغيب، فقال: سبحان الله، ضع يدك على رأسي فوالله ما بقيت شعرة فيه و [لا] في جسدي إلا قامت، ثم قال:لا والله ما هي إلا وراثة عن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله
 
He said: I have been informed by al-Husain b. Ahmad b. al-Mughairah, who reported from Abu Muhammad Haider b. Muhammad al-Samarqandi, who reported from Abu Amru Muhammad b. Amru al-Kashi, who reported from Hamdawayh b. Naseer, who reported from Ya'qoob b. Yazeed, who reported from Ibn Abi Umayr, who reported from Ibn al-Mughairah who said:
 
Yahya b. Abdullah b. al-Hasan and I were with Abul Hasan, peace be upon him, and Yahya asked him: "May I be your ransom, they think that you have the knowledge of the unseen (Ilmul Ghaib)." He said: "Glory be to Allah! Place your hand over my head." When I did that, every hair in my head and on my body stood on its end. Then he said: "No, By Allah, it is nothing but what we have inherited from the Prophet (peace be upon him and his progeny)."
 
Grading:Sayyed al-Khoie:"Saheeh Sanad" (Mu'jam Rijaal al-Hadeeth 21/69)
____________________________

Hadeeth #2:
1 - عدة من أصحابنا، عن أحمد بن محمد بن عيسى، عن معمر بن خلاد قال: سأل أبا الحسن عليه السلام رجل من أهل فارس فقال له: أتعلمون الغيب؟ فقال: قال أبو جعفر عليه السلام: يبسط لنا العلم فنعلم ويقبض عنا فلا نعلم، وقال: سر الله عزوجل أسره إلى جبرئيل عليه السلام وأسره جبرئيل إلى محمد صلى الله عليه وآله، وأسرة محمد إلى من شاء الله.
 
A number of our people have narrated from Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn ‘Isa from Mu’ammar ibn Khallad who has said that a man from Persia asked abu al-Hassan, recipient of divine supreme covenant, the following:
 
“Do you know al-Ghayb (the hidden facts)? The Imam, recipient of divine supreme covenant, said, ‘Abu Ja‘far, recipient of divine supreme covenant, has said, “If it opens to us, then we know it, and if it is withheld from us then we do not know.”’ 
The Imam then said, ‘It is the secret of Allah, the Most Holy, the Most High, Who has secretly given it to Jibril and Jibril has secretly given it to Muhammad, recipient of divine supreme covenant, and Muhammad, recipient of divine supreme covenant, has secretly given it to whoever Allah wished.’”
 
Grading:
 
  1. Majlisi:"Saheeh" (Mirat ul uqool 3/110)
  2. Hadi Najafi:"Saheeh Sanad" (Mawsu'at Ahadith Ahl al-Bayt 8/214)
____________________________

Hadeeth #3:
4 - أحمد بن محمد، عن محمد بن الحسن، عن أحمد بن الحسن بن علي، عن عمرو ابن سعيد، عن مصدق بن صدقة، عن عمار الساباطي قال: سألت أبا عبدالله عليه السلام عن الامام؟ يعلم الغيب؟ فقال: لا ولكن إذا أراد أن يعلم الشئ أعلمه الله ذلك.
 
Ahmad ibn Muhammad has narrated from Muhammad ibn al-Hassan from Ahmad ibn a1-Hassan ibn Ali from ‘Amr ibn Sa‘id from Musaddiq ibn Sadaqa from ‘Ammar al-Sabati who has said the following:
 
“Once I asked abu ‘Abd Allah, recipient of divine supreme covenant, ‘Does the Imam have the knowledge of the hidden facts?’ The Imam said, ‘No, he does not have such knowledge but if he would like to know about a thing Allah grants him such knowledge.’”
 
Grading:
 
  1. Majlisi:"Muwaththaq(Reliable)" (Mirat ul uqool 3/115)
  2. Hadi Najafi:"Mo'tabar Sanad" (Mawsu'at Ahadith Ahl al-Bayt 8/216)
____________________________
 
Hadeeth #4:
52 - كش : بهذا الاسناد عن ابن أبي عمير عن شعيب عن أبي بصير قال قلت لابي عبدالله عليه الصلاة والسلام : إنهم يقولون ، قال : وما يقولون ؟ قلت : يقولون : يعلم ( 1 ) قطر المطر وعدد النجوم وورق الشجر ووزن ما في البحر وعدد التراب ، فرفع يده إلى السمآء وقال : سبحان الله سبحان الله لا والله ما يعلم هذا إلا الله .
 
Narrated from ibn Abi Umair, from Shu'aib, from abi Baseer, who said: I said to abi Abdullah (as): 
 
"Indeed they claim!" Imam (as) asked: "And what do they claim?" I said: "They claim that you know (number of) drops of the rain, number of stars and leaves of trees, weight of what is in the seas and number of (particles of) sand." So Imam (as) raised his hand towards the sky and said: "Subhanallah! Subhanallah! No one knows all this except for Allah (swt)." 
 
Grading:Saheeh
_____________________________

Hadeeth #5:
 
One of his companions said to him: O' Amir al-mu'minin, you have been given knowledge of hidden things. Whereupon Amir al-mu'minin laughed and said to the man who belonged to the tribe of Banu Kalb: O' brother of Kalb! This is not knowledge of hidden things (`ilmu'l-ghayb), these matters have been acquired from him (namely in Prophet) who knew them. As regard knowledge of hidden things, that means knowledge of the Day of Judgement, and the things covered by Allah in the verse.
 
Verily, Allah is He with Whom is the knowledge of the Hour... (Qur'an, 31:34)
Therefore, Allah alone knows what is there in the wombs, whether male or female, ugly or handsome, generous or miserly, mischievous or pious, and who will be the fuel for Hell and who will be in the company of the Prophets in Paradise. This is the knowledge of the hidden things which is not known to anyone save Allah. All else is that whose knowledge Allah passed on to His Prophet and he passed it on to me, and prayed for me that my bosom may retain it and my ribs may hold it.
 
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45 minutes ago, Shaykh Patience101 said:

To clarify the concept of the Imams knowing 'everything':

Hadeeth #1:
 
٥ - قال: أخبرني الحسين بن أحمد بن المغيرة (١) قال: أخبرني أبو محمد حيدر بن محمد السمرقندي قال: أخبرني أبو عمرو محمد بن عمرو الكشي قال: حدثنا حمدويه بن نصير قال: حدثنا يعقوب بن يزيد، عن ابن أبي عمير، عن ابن المغيرة قال: كنت أنا ويحيى بن عبد الله بن الحسن عند أبي الحسن عليه السلام فقال له يحيى، جعلت فداك إنهم يزعمون أنك تعلم الغيب، فقال: سبحان الله، ضع يدك على رأسي فوالله ما بقيت شعرة فيه و [لا] في جسدي إلا قامت، ثم قال:لا والله ما هي إلا وراثة عن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله
 
He said: I have been informed by al-Husain b. Ahmad b. al-Mughairah, who reported from Abu Muhammad Haider b. Muhammad al-Samarqandi, who reported from Abu Amru Muhammad b. Amru al-Kashi, who reported from Hamdawayh b. Naseer, who reported from Ya'qoob b. Yazeed, who reported from Ibn Abi Umayr, who reported from Ibn al-Mughairah who said:
 
Yahya b. Abdullah b. al-Hasan and I were with Abul Hasan, peace be upon him, and Yahya asked him: "May I be your ransom, they think that you have the knowledge of the unseen (Ilmul Ghaib)." He said: "Glory be to Allah! Place your hand over my head." When I did that, every hair in my head and on my body stood on its end. Then he said: "No, By Allah, it is nothing but what we have inherited from the Prophet (peace be upon him and his progeny)."
 
Grading:Sayyed al-Khoie:"Saheeh Sanad" (Mu'jam Rijaal al-Hadeeth 21/69)
____________________________

Hadeeth #2:
1 - عدة من أصحابنا، عن أحمد بن محمد بن عيسى، عن معمر بن خلاد قال: سأل أبا الحسن عليه السلام رجل من أهل فارس فقال له: أتعلمون الغيب؟ فقال: قال أبو جعفر عليه السلام: يبسط لنا العلم فنعلم ويقبض عنا فلا نعلم، وقال: سر الله عزوجل أسره إلى جبرئيل عليه السلام وأسره جبرئيل إلى محمد صلى الله عليه وآله، وأسرة محمد إلى من شاء الله.
 
A number of our people have narrated from Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn ‘Isa from Mu’ammar ibn Khallad who has said that a man from Persia asked abu al-Hassan, recipient of divine supreme covenant, the following:
 
“Do you know al-Ghayb (the hidden facts)? The Imam, recipient of divine supreme covenant, said, ‘Abu Ja‘far, recipient of divine supreme covenant, has said, “If it opens to us, then we know it, and if it is withheld from us then we do not know.”’ 
The Imam then said, ‘It is the secret of Allah, the Most Holy, the Most High, Who has secretly given it to Jibril and Jibril has secretly given it to Muhammad, recipient of divine supreme covenant, and Muhammad, recipient of divine supreme covenant, has secretly given it to whoever Allah wished.’”
 
Grading:
 
  1. Majlisi:"Saheeh" (Mirat ul uqool 3/110)
  2. Hadi Najafi:"Saheeh Sanad" (Mawsu'at Ahadith Ahl al-Bayt 8/214)
____________________________

Hadeeth #3:
4 - أحمد بن محمد، عن محمد بن الحسن، عن أحمد بن الحسن بن علي، عن عمرو ابن سعيد، عن مصدق بن صدقة، عن عمار الساباطي قال: سألت أبا عبدالله عليه السلام عن الامام؟ يعلم الغيب؟ فقال: لا ولكن إذا أراد أن يعلم الشئ أعلمه الله ذلك.
 
Ahmad ibn Muhammad has narrated from Muhammad ibn al-Hassan from Ahmad ibn a1-Hassan ibn Ali from ‘Amr ibn Sa‘id from Musaddiq ibn Sadaqa from ‘Ammar al-Sabati who has said the following:
 
“Once I asked abu ‘Abd Allah, recipient of divine supreme covenant, ‘Does the Imam have the knowledge of the hidden facts?’ The Imam said, ‘No, he does not have such knowledge but if he would like to know about a thing Allah grants him such knowledge.’”
 
Grading:
 
  1. Majlisi:"Muwaththaq(Reliable)" (Mirat ul uqool 3/115)
  2. Hadi Najafi:"Mo'tabar Sanad" (Mawsu'at Ahadith Ahl al-Bayt 8/216)
____________________________
 
Hadeeth #4:
52 - كش : بهذا الاسناد عن ابن أبي عمير عن شعيب عن أبي بصير قال قلت لابي عبدالله عليه الصلاة والسلام : إنهم يقولون ، قال : وما يقولون ؟ قلت : يقولون : يعلم ( 1 ) قطر المطر وعدد النجوم وورق الشجر ووزن ما في البحر وعدد التراب ، فرفع يده إلى السمآء وقال : سبحان الله سبحان الله لا والله ما يعلم هذا إلا الله .
 
Narrated from ibn Abi Umair, from Shu'aib, from abi Baseer, who said: I said to abi Abdullah (as): 
 
"Indeed they claim!" Imam (as) asked: "And what do they claim?" I said: "They claim that you know (number of) drops of the rain, number of stars and leaves of trees, weight of what is in the seas and number of (particles of) sand." So Imam (as) raised his hand towards the sky and said: "Subhanallah! Subhanallah! No one knows all this except for Allah (swt)." 
 
Grading:Saheeh
_____________________________

Hadeeth #5:
 
One of his companions said to him: O' Amir al-mu'minin, you have been given knowledge of hidden things. Whereupon Amir al-mu'minin laughed and said to the man who belonged to the tribe of Banu Kalb: O' brother of Kalb! This is not knowledge of hidden things (`ilmu'l-ghayb), these matters have been acquired from him (namely in Prophet) who knew them. As regard knowledge of hidden things, that means knowledge of the Day of Judgement, and the things covered by Allah in the verse.
 
Verily, Allah is He with Whom is the knowledge of the Hour... (Qur'an, 31:34)
Therefore, Allah alone knows what is there in the wombs, whether male or female, ugly or handsome, generous or miserly, mischievous or pious, and who will be the fuel for Hell and who will be in the company of the Prophets in Paradise. This is the knowledge of the hidden things which is not known to anyone save Allah. All else is that whose knowledge Allah passed on to His Prophet and he passed it on to me, and prayed for me that my bosom may retain it and my ribs may hold it.
 

I think Ill trust sayed khomeini more than you

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17 minutes ago, Shaykh Patience101 said:

I have not said anything from myself yet.

Thank you, captain obvious. I thought you wrote those hadith yourself but you cleared it up now. 

My point still stands though, in terms of reliable sources, sayed khomeini will trump anything you try and bring

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4 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

Thank you, captain obvious. I thought you wrote those hadith yourself but you cleared it up now. 

My point still stands though, in terms of reliable sources, sayed khomeini will trump anything you try and bring

If he is not your marja' (or even if he was), I don't see how he can trump a saheeh hadith.

Anyways, I don't see why your bringing his words up in opposition. Have you even read the hadith I've posted? They're not saying that the Imams don't have some (or even most) of the 'Ilm al-Ghayb. They're saying they don't have all of it.

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42 minutes ago, Shaykh Patience101 said:

If he is not your marja' (or even if he was), I don't see how he can trump a saheeh hadith.

Anyways, I don't see why your bringing his words up in opposition. Have you even read the hadith I've posted? They're not saying that the Imams don't have some (or even most) of the 'Ilm al-Ghayb. They're saying they don't have all of it.

So sayed khomeini is wrong/ unreliable?

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7 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

Dont dodge my question. Is sayed khomeini wrong/ unreliable?

I answered it before you asked it, because I knew you would try to make that point- which you ended up doing anyway.

No.

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