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In the Name of God بسم الله

Issues on blindly following maraji' and khums

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So as to stop hijacking the previous thread on which marji' you follow, I've started this one. The following arguments were made: 

18 hours ago, yafatimaalzahra said:

I follow Sheikh Wahid Khorasani. :verryhappy:

And then what? How much of the millions (if not billions) of dollars that are being sent to maraji' are actually being spent on those who need it? Where exactly is all of that money going? I'd rather go out and pay sadaqa directly to the poor, or those in need, than to send it to an Islamic scholar that likely does not even manage incoming donations directly. Also, money is not the only way to prove your loyalty to someone/something.

A marji' is "followed" for islamic rulings - he is literally there to research any ambiguous islamic rulings that cannot be determined from the Quran or well-known ahadith and require further research. I can follow a marji' and still choose not to like his aqeeda, or him personally. A marji' is still human (albeit a well-learned human that has spent years researching ahadith) that is capable of making mistakes. People really need to stop putting them on so high a pedestal that they cannot be questioned or doubted. Or, in this case, you need to stop assuming that we have an obligation to pay our marji' just because we decided their opinion was most agreeable.  

"Real followers do so much in practice. Also there are many other things, which i cannot discuss." 
Real followers of whom? The Imams or the maraji'?

 

8 hours ago, Danish14 said:

Yafatimazehea, gosh you went so far lol. Following a maraja does not mean to agree in his decisions which your heart is not inclined to accept. Maraja themselves say that if you do not agree on one decision of Maraja you can choose to opt for that problem from another Maraja.  Secondly,  you say that why should you give khums to ulemas really if you think this than I tell you that Imam Ali a.s dislikes it. Imam Ali a.s was once asked why are ulemas so poor. Imam replied that because ignorant do not understand their value and help them. A Maraja spends his life in books to help you inform about the message of our Imams and they are so pious that if you give them khums. They will give away most of it for a causr of islam and among needy because Allah (SWT ) has made ther hearts fear from His anger. Imam Mehdi a.s is our real leader, these ulemas are their ambassadors if you help them to revive message of our Imams, Imam will help you. Otherwise, Imam Mehdi a.s will leave you as you left his message. 

 

5 hours ago, yafatimaalzahra said:

 

8 hours ago, Danish14 said:

Following a maraja does not mean to agree in his decisions which your heart is not inclined to accept.

Not sure what part of my post lead you to believe otherwise but I agree. I meant that I could still follow a marji' for his islamic ruling and not like him as a person or not like his aqeedah. i.e. I personally do not agree with certain behaviours of some maraji' that choose to say (ra) after the names of the enemies of Ahlulbayt but I will not stop following a marji' simply because of this, because idealistically, his personal preference to speak kindly of the la'eens should not affect his ability to inform us of certain islamic rulings based on his research of ahadith. I hope this clears up what I meant to say. 

8 hours ago, Danish14 said:

Secondly,  you say that why should you give khums to ulemas really if you think this than I tell you that Imam Ali a.s dislikes it

Could you please provide a reference to back up this statement. 

8 hours ago, Danish14 said:

Imam Ali a.s was once asked why are ulemas so poor. Imam replied that because ignorant do not understand their value and help them.

I assure you, no marji' in todays world is poor, in any sense of the word. If I happen to be mistaken, however, feel free to correct me by providing me with names of maraji' that are in fact poor. Note that even though most maraji' prefer to live in small homes and follow the example of Alhlulbayt (as) by not indulging in materialistic objects, it does not necessarily prove they are poor financially. Some definitions of poor, based on dictionary.com, are: "having little or no money, goods,  or other means of support" and "characterised by or showing poverty". I'm pretty certain no marji' is lacking in goods or welfare because they have no means of support or are living in poverty. 

In addition to this, millions of people pay khumus to the maraji' so I do not quite understand the point of the narration that you have mentioned. I may have made a personal decision to not send my money to the maraji' but that does not mean that they are not receiving help from anyone else. 

8 hours ago, Danish14 said:

A Maraja spends his life in books to help you inform about the message of our Imams and they are so pious that if you give them khums. They will give away most of it for a causr of islam and among needy because Allah (SWT ) has made ther hearts fear from His anger. Imam Mehdi a.s is our real leader, these ulemas are their ambassadors if you help them to revive message of our Imams, Imam will help you. Otherwise, Imam Mehdi a.s will leave you as you left his message.

Is there are any proof to this? Look at those suffering from poverty in Iraq for example. How many of them are actually being supported by the maraji'? As a matter of fact, how many maraji' are actually giving any money to the poor or doing anything with it at all? I realise that some maraji' do make a small effort but in my humble opinion, their efforts are not enough. With all of the money that is going towards the maraji' annually, you would expect to see a lot less poverty in the countries that they reside in. Again, if you happen to know of any charities that are being run by maraji' that I am not aware of (or any recorded financial assistance from the maraji'), please do share your sources and help shed a positive light on this situation. 

As for Allah(swt) making "their hearts fear from His anger" - there is no proof of this. The maraji' are humans. A human is capable of fearing Allah(swt), yes, but they are also capable of not fearing Allah. Just because the maraji' appear to be more pious than others due to the amount of years they have devoted to becoming as learned as they are, does not mean that they are more pious than an uneducated farmer that has no knowledge about Islam other than the mere basics for instance. It is likely that they are extremely more pious than others because they are more educated about the religion, however they remain humans that are capable of mistakes and, shocker, not fearing Allah(swt). 

The maraji' are self-appointed ambassadors of the Imam(aaf). As far as I'm aware, the Imam(aaf) did not personally appoint them as his ambassadors. Choosing NOT to provide them with any financial support does not mean I have left the Imams message. The maraji' and the Imam are not one and the same. I can decide to dislike the maraji' and still love my Imam and I can decide to disagree with the system that is currently in place and still support the Imam. You having a different opinion than me on this issue does not make my opinion any less viable/acceptable (logically). 

 

On a related note, I would also like to point out that the maraji' are scholars. They are not infallible beings. Yes, I realise I have repeated this several times and it is an obvious fact but it seems that while facts are known they are not always understood or considered thoroughly. I like to liken the maraji' to any other scholars - be it scholars of the natural sciences or history scholars. I do not believe that what drives them to research our religion is their piety but more-so their hunger for knowledge, which is admirable. If they did not have a strong interest in Islam and a strong desire to learn more, then they would not have become maraji' just as Einstein would not have become an established scientist if he had not had the inherent desire to understand the world around him. I also do not think that any marji' is inherently evil or ill-intentioned, but it is a fact that they sometimes make mistakes in judgement (otherwise, if all maraji' were right about everything, there would be no contradictory fatwa's in which they differ in opinion). This is expectable as they are only human and are very capable of making mistakes - sometimes minor mistakes, other times drastic. For this reason, I believe it is important to be able to analyse the rulings that are made by the maraji' - to take into account any contradictory fatwas and have an open-mind when it comes to refuting them. If we were to blindly follow any human, as learned and dedicated as they may be, then we could only expect to decline as a society. Challenge is good as it helps ensure that what is being brought forth is actually reliable and accurate. And while we obviously cannot challenge Allah(swt) or Ahlulbayt(as) - we are definitely allowed to challenge the maraji', favourably only when we can actually discuss extensive islamic matters with them but regardless, disagreeing with a marji' is not prohibited or haram. 

 

 

4 hours ago, Danish14 said:

It was huge Masha-Allah you are a good orator. Let me ask you that have you went through the minds of marajas to understand why they call r.a to some of people who are considered Ashab by other sect and we don't consider them Ashab. You aren't aware about what reason lie behind it but I understand and I don't think it appropriate to discuss with you because you seem much emotionally driven girl because emotions brings haste and haste brings destruction but remember that they do it for they are asked by our 12 imams to maintain peace otherwise they do not agree to their injustices. It is not always right to show disagreement by hurting others. Secondly, what marajas get money as a help is a religious binding upon Muslims so that websites could be run, Hauzas shall impart free education and religious delegations could be sent far and wide across the world. Marajas may have money from khums but they aren't spending it by making castles. May be they retain a small portion of it for their livings but you must know that conscience of an Alim is much responsible than an ordinary individual because they know that one mistake of an scholar will be forgiven after 70 ignorants. Marajas are responsible for educating masses and poverty is a government obligation to remove.  Every one has his job to do.  Do not intermix responsibilities. 

 

3 hours ago, yafatimaalzahra said:

 

4 hours ago, Danish14 said:

Let me ask you that have you went through the minds of marajas to understand why they call r.a to some of people who are considered Ashab by other sect and we don't consider them Ashab.

Nah, don't need to go through their minds to disagree with them for doing it - regardless of their reasons. I am allowed to disagree with someone aren't I, or is freedom of speech/thought only a myth? 

4 hours ago, Danish14 said:

I don't think it appropriate to discuss with you because you seem much emotionally driven girl because emotions brings haste and haste brings destruction

Lulz, this is why I don't debate with men with superiority complexes that only ever resort to the "women are emotionally driven" excuse when they have nothing consequential to add to a discussion (wonder if you would've brought up my gender if it wasn't listed on my profile). Stereotypes can be also be applied to men but hey what would I know, I'm just an emotionally driven girl and can't really debate as well as you - you know with sources to back up the narrations I keep mentioning. :rolleyes:

4 hours ago, Danish14 said:

It is not always right to show disagreement by hurting others.

I did not intend to hurt you but if I have then I do apologise. But if I may ask, what exactly is it that hurt you? I don't recall insulting you personally. 

4 hours ago, Danish14 said:

Secondly, what marajas get money as a help is a religious binding upon Muslims so that websites could be run, Hauzas shall impart free education and religious delegations could be sent far and wide across the world. Marajas may have money from khums but they aren't spending it by making castles. May be they retain a small portion of it for their livings but you must know that conscience of an Alim is much responsible than an ordinary individual because they know that one mistake of an scholar will be forgiven after 70 ignorants. Marajas are responsible for educating masses and poverty is a government obligation to remove.  Every one has his job to do.  Do not intermix responsibilities.

While this is all great and well, I still feel there is a lot more money that is not being used for good. Although, I don't exactly have proof of this myself so I could very well be mistaken. While poverty may be something that the government should work on, I still believe it is a marji's obligation to help the Shia that are in dire need of basic things for survival such as clean water and food.

 

 

1 hour ago, Danish14 said:

 

3 hours ago, yafatimaalzahra said:

Nah, don't need to go through their minds to disagree with them for doing it - regardless of their reasons. I am allowed to disagree with someone aren't I, or is freedom of speech/thought only a myth? 

Lulz, this is why I don't debate with men with superiority complexes that only ever resort to the "women are emotionally driven" excuse when they have nothing consequential to add to a discussion (wonder if you would've brought up my gender if it wasn't listed on my profile). Stereotypes can be also be applied to men but hey what would I know, I'm just an emotionally driven girl and can't really debate as well as you - you know with sources to back up the narrations I keep mentioning. :rolleyes:

I did not intend to hurt you but if I have then I do apologise. But if I may ask, what exactly is it that hurt you? I don't recall insulting you personally. 

While this is all great and well, I still feel there is a lot more money that is not being used for good. Although, I don't exactly have proof of this myself so I could very well be mistaken. While poverty may be something that the government should work on, I still believe it is a marji's obligation to help the Shia that are in dire need of basic things for survival such as clean water and food.

Lol, I am not discriminating gender, I am telling something which you do not understand and that is women's love contains more emotions than men that is why I think that woman shall be in army too. Really, no one wins if woman is by your side to emotionally back you up. and if that woman be Muslim there is no case you gonna lose battle. But, you must know that sometimes emotions are proves to be destructive particularly for Muslim community. I do not say that you hurt me., I meant to say that even if we have disagreement with the leaders of our sunni brothers we must not hurt them by abusing or calling name of their leaders that is what our Imam Ali a.s said that do not call bad names to the idol of unbeliever because they call bad to your Imam. It was a quote by Imam Ali a.s for infidels not for those who are Muslims and Imam Reza a.s said that Every person who believes in Allah and Prophet (PBUHHP) is a Muslim but for being Momin accepting Ali as successor is binding condition. So, why shall we infuse instability among Muslims even though we know that we can avoid it. I am of the view that I do disagree with them and I protest against their injustices which they did against Syeda Zehra a.s or Imam Ali a.s but my stance will be that of Imam Ali a.s who opposed them in their lives but did not call names. Syeda Zehra a.s never liked to talked to them who snatched her Garden from them but she a.s never abused. So, I will follow Imam Ali a.s and syeda Zehra a.s that is never to accept their injustices and do part ways from them. And, I think this will not be wronged for anyone who questions my faith. Lastly, for elminating poverty there is system of Zakat which is meant to be managed by government. Marajas are doing everything possible to remove poverty in their domain but since you are not with them you do not have idea. And, besides why are you saying that marajas shall do government's duty, why are you keeping such governments if you do not have faith in them  ?

 

 

1 hour ago, Aftahb said:

 

18 hours ago, yafatimaalzahra said:

I follow Sheikh Wahid Khorasani. :verryhappy:

And then what? How much of the millions (if not billions) of dollars that are being sent to maraji' are actually being spent on those who need it? Where exactly is all of that money going? I'd rather go out and pay sadaqa directly to the poor, or those in need, than to send it to an Islamic scholar that likely does not even manage incoming donations directly. Also, money is not the only way to prove your loyalty to someone/something.

A marji' is "followed" for islamic rulings - he is literally there to research any ambiguous islamic rulings that cannot be determined from the Quran or well-known ahadith and require further research. I can follow a marji' and still choose not to like his aqeeda, or him personally. A marji' is still human (albeit a well-learned human that has spent years researching ahadith) that is capable of making mistakes. People really need to stop putting them on so high a pedestal that they cannot be questioned or doubted. Or, in this case, you need to stop assuming that we have an obligation to pay our marji' just because we decided their opinion was most agreeable.  

"Real followers do so much in practice. Also there are many other things, which i cannot discuss." 
Real followers of whom? The Imams or the maraji'?

dear, it is never about what you prefer and what you see as good. It is always about rules under usooli system. Your money matters if you are under usooli system. 

http://www.islamic-laws.com/khums.htm

here are the conditions on khums by As-Samahat al-Marje' Sheikh Husain Wahid Khorasani (HA)

Islamic Laws: by As-Samahat al-Marje' Sheikh Husain Wahid Khorasani - link

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by yafatimaalzahra
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2 hours ago, Danish14 said:

Lol, I am not discriminating gender, I am telling something which you do not understand and that is women's love contains more emotions than men that is why I think that woman shall be in army too.

I'm not sure if you're purposefully trying to be insulting or if it's just difficult for you to articulate what you mean. I'm going to assume it's the latter. Regardless, the way you repeatedly keep mentioning womens "greater emotions" is demeaning. For example when you say "I don't think it appropriate to discuss with you because you seem much emotionally driven girlbecause emotions brings haste and haste brings destruction" you are suggesting that I, a person you have never met before or spoken to, am an emotionally driven girl. I take this to mean that you assume all girls are inherently emotionally driven (which you've just proven with your last response). You are literally grouping half of the worlds population, if not more, into one really narrow stereotype. And to top it all off you suggest that because of my being "emotionally driven" I am incapable of understanding various things - first with apparently being too emotionally driven to understand why maraji' lie (I never said they lied, but ok) and then by claiming that I, as a woman, don't understand how "women's love contains more emotions than men". I don't refute that last claim either because I only have my perspective as a woman to judge from and unless you've been both a woman and a man I don't really think you have much say in that either - unless there's some sort of unbiased study that supports this theory. 

All that being said, I have maintained an unwavering expression and steady heart rate throughout the entirety of our discussion and have literally been emotionally idle throughout the whole time. So, your claim of me being emotionally driven because of my gender, is simply ignorant and wrong. Also, this long response to you about your distinct choice of words in regards to women was not constructed because I am mad or annoyed, quite the contrary - I have yet to feel any distinct "emotion" to suggest to me that I am more than simply content. But, I like to be pretty technical when I am trying to discuss something and I would prefer others do the same in order to avoid any confusion. 

Alas, since the main topic of our discussion is maraji' and not womens rights, I think we should let it go and move on with the discussion. 

 

2 hours ago, Danish14 said:

I do not say that you hurt me., I meant to say that even if we have disagreement with the leaders of our sunni brothers we must not hurt them by abusing or calling name of their leaders that is what our Imam Ali a.s said that do not call bad names to the idol of unbeliever because they call bad to your Imam.

What exactly gives you the impression that I am ok with abusing or name-calling the Sunni leaders? I simply used my disagreement with the maraji' to PRAISE the enemies of Ahlulbayt(as) as an example - I did not state that I would prefer they cursed them - to show that I can disagree with the actions of a marji' and still consider their rulings because the personal aqeedah of a marji' should not affect their ability to issues fatwas. This whole thing about curing the enemies of Ahlulbayt(as) is completely off topic and should probably be discussed elsewhere. 

 

2 hours ago, Danish14 said:

Lastly, for elminating poverty there is system of Zakat which is meant to be managed by government.

What? What government are you thinking of that actually manages zakat? 

 

2 hours ago, Danish14 said:

Marajas are doing everything possible to remove poverty in their domain but since you are not with them you do not have idea. 

Oh, the irony. And I assume you are with the maraji' and you know all about how they're doing what they can to remove poverty?

 

2 hours ago, Danish14 said:

And, besides why are you saying that marajas shall do government's duty, why are you keeping such governments if you do not have faith in them  ?

Why do you keep claiming that helping the poor is the government's duty? Who's to say that it is only the governments duty? The money that is paid as khums to the maraji' is supposed to be spent on various things, as Aftahb kindly pointed out with the ruling of Syed Sistani. See below: 

"Khums, in brief, means paying one-fifth of the surplus of one's income after taking away the expenses of the person and his dependants. It consists of two equal parts: one being the share of the Imam, meaning that this part goes for constructing masjids, Islamic seminaries, Islamic schools, libraries, hospitals or clinics, orphanages, printing of the Noble Quran, hadith books, Islamic books and lectures, and others things which will benefit, defend, or propagate Islam. The second part is the portion for the poor sayyids (descendants of the Prophet), since they are banned from receiving zakat (charity)."

Helping those in need is actually one thing that we can, or should, expect our khums money to be spent on. I don't see any of that happening in todays world, even though there's a dire need for such things in the middle east. If I am to pay my khums directly to a marji', I have a right to expect that money to go towards benefiting, defending or propagating Islam. If I do not see that happening and hence do not trust the maraji' to manage khums accordingly, then I will not pay them directly because I don't have to. 

Also, as someone who lives in the West, I'm pretty sure I have little say in which governments rule third world countries lol. 

 

Edited by yafatimaalzahra
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I am not insulting anyone. Hazrat Zuhair ibn e Qain was inspired by his wife to go to Karbala and Hazrat Habib ibn Mazahir was also moved by the good intentions of his wife when she said that if you cannot go to Imam Hussain a.s, I will go for it. 

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13 minutes ago, yafatimaalzahra said:

I'm not sure if you're purposefully trying to be insulting or if it's just difficult for you to articulate what you mean. I'm going to assume it's the latter. Regardless, the way you repeatedly keep mentioning womens "greater emotions" is demeaning. For example when you say "I don't think it appropriate to discuss with you because you seem much emotionally driven girlbecause emotions brings haste and haste brings destruction" you are suggesting that I, a person you have never met before or spoken to, am an emotionally driven girl. I take this to mean that you assume all girls are inherently emotionally driven (which you've just proven with your last response). You are literally grouping half of the worlds population, if not more, into one really narrow stereotype. And to top it all off you suggest that because of my being "emotionally driven" I am incapable of understanding various things - first with apparently being too emotionally driven to understand why maraji' lie (I never said they lied, but ok) and then by claiming that I, as a woman, don't understand how "women's love contains more emotions than men". I don't refute that last claim either because I only have my perspective as a woman to judge from and unless you've been both a woman and a man I don't really think you have much say in that either - unless there's some sort of unbiased study that supports this theory. 

All that being said, I have maintained an unwavering expression and steady heart rate throughout the entirety of our discussion and have literally been emotionally idle throughout the whole time. So, your claim of me being emotionally driven because of my gender, is simply ignorant and wrong. Also, this long response to you about your distinct choice of words in regards to women was not constructed because I am mad or annoyed, quite the contrary - I have yet to feel any distinct "emotion" to suggest to me that I am more than simply content. But, I like to be pretty technical when I am trying to discuss something and I would prefer others do the same in order to avoid any confusion. 

Alas, since the main topic of our discussion is maraji' and not womens rights, I think we should let it go and move on with the discussion. 

 

What exactly gives you the impression that I am ok with abusing or name-calling the Sunni leaders? I simply used my disagreement with the maraji' to PRAISE the enemies of Ahlulbayt(as) as an example - I did not state that I would prefer they cursed them - to show that I can disagree with the actions of a marji' and still consider their rulings because the personal aqeedah of a marji' should not affect their ability to issues fatwas. This whole thing about curing the enemies of Ahlulbayt(as) is completely off topic and should probably be discussed elsewhere. 

 

What? What government are you thinking of that actually manages zakat? 

 

Oh, the irony. And I assume you are with the maraji' and you know all about how they're doing what they can to remove poverty?

 

Why do you keep claiming that helping the poor is the government's duty? Who's to say that it is only the governments duty? The money that is paid as khums to the maraji' is supposed to be spent on various things, as Aftahb kindly pointed out with the ruling of Sheikh Khorasani. See below: 

"Khums, in brief, means paying one-fifth of the surplus of one's income after taking away the expenses of the person and his dependants. It consists of two equal parts: one being the share of the Imam, meaning that this part goes for constructing masjids, Islamic seminaries, Islamic schools, libraries, hospitals or clinics, orphanages, printing of the Noble Quran, hadith books, Islamic books and lectures, and others things which will benefit, defend, or propagate Islam. The second part is the portion for the poor sayyids (descendants of the Prophet), since they are banned from receiving zakat (charity)."

Helping those in need is actually one thing that we can, or should, expect our khums money to be spent on. I don't see any of that happening in todays world, even though there's a dire need for such things in the middle east. If I am to pay my khums directly to a marji', I have a right to expect that money to go towards benefiting, defending or propagating Islam. If I do not see that happening and hence do not trust the maraji' to manage khums accordingly, then I will not pay them directly because I don't have to. 

Also, as someone who lives in the West, I'm pretty sure I have little say in which governments rule third world countries lol. 

 

I am really sorry, ok, I did not said anything purposefully to hurt you but you hurt me by saying that I am both man and woman. I am 100 percent man. And, yeah I admit, I am wrong, You are right. I keep my beliefs and have respect for yours. I never said that you said marajas lie never, never, never. Ok. Live long marajas and live all Muslims. I am but a humble servant of lovers of Ahle-bait e Muhammad. 

Edited by Danish14
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@Aftahb, I just had a look at the link you provided and they appear to all be questions answered by Syed Sistini and not my marji'. The book containing the rulings from Sheikh Khorasani does not appear to have any say on how I decide to deal with khums (unless I completely missed it because there are several pages on what things you pay khums for). 

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5 minutes ago, Danish14 said:

I am really sorry, ok, I did not said anything purposefully to hurt you but you hurt me by saying that I am both man and woman. I am 100 percent man. And, yeah I admit, I am wrong, You are right. I keep my beliefs and have respect for yours. I never said that you said marajas lie never, never, never. Ok. Live long marajas and live you all ulemas. I am but a humble servant of lovers of Ahle-bait e Muhammad. 

I didn't say you were both man and woman, I said you cannot make the claims you made unless you were both man and woman. Suggesting you were both man and woman would actually defeat my argument. Lol, ok.

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only weak men insult women like this. they do it when they are not able to prove their words, that is why this guy brought such an irrelevant matter to discussion. 

On 5/9/2016 at 8:34 PM, yafatimaalzahra said:

I am telling something which you do not understand and that is women's love contains more emotions than men that is why I think that woman shall be in army too

 

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11 minutes ago, Golden-crowned said:

only weak men insult women like this. they do it when they are not able to prove their words, that is why this guy brought such an irrelevant matter to discussion. 

Unfortunately, many men do not think of it as an insult. It's as if it's perfectly normal to go around and claim that women are mentally less superior because they're "emotionally" superior - and even then, we're portrayed as only having an abundance of what are generally considered weak emotions, whereas men of course have "stronger" emotions. 

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22 minutes ago, yafatimaalzahra said:

I'm not sure if you're purposefully trying to be insulting or if it's just difficult for you to articulate what you mean. I'm going to assume it's the latter. Regardless, the way you repeatedly keep mentioning womens "greater emotions" is demeaning. For example when you say "I don't think it appropriate to discuss with you because you seem much emotionally driven girlbecause emotions brings haste and haste brings destruction" you are suggesting that I, a person you have never met before or spoken to, am an emotionally driven girl. I take this to mean that you assume all girls are inherently emotionally driven (which you've just proven with your last response). You are literally grouping half of the worlds population, if not more, into one really narrow stereotype. And to top it all off you suggest that because of my being "emotionally driven" I am incapable of understanding various things - first with apparently being too emotionally driven to understand why maraji' lie (I never said they lied, but ok) and then by claiming that I, as a woman, don't understand how "women's love contains more emotions than men". I don't refute that last claim either because I only have my perspective as a woman to judge from and unless you've been both a woman and a man I don't really think you have much say in that either - unless there's some sort of unbiased study that supports this theory. 

All that being said, I have maintained an unwavering expression and steady heart rate throughout the entirety of our discussion and have literally been emotionally idle throughout the whole time. So, your claim of me being emotionally driven because of my gender, is simply ignorant and wrong. Also, this long response to you about your distinct choice of words in regards to women was not constructed because I am mad or annoyed, quite the contrary - I have yet to feel any distinct "emotion" to suggest to me that I am more than simply content. But, I like to be pretty technical when I am trying to discuss something and I would prefer others do the same in order to avoid any confusion. 

Alas, since the main topic of our discussion is maraji' and not womens rights, I think we should let it go and move on with the discussion. 

 

What exactly gives you the impression that I am ok with abusing or name-calling the Sunni leaders? I simply used my disagreement with the maraji' to PRAISE the enemies of Ahlulbayt(as) as an example - I did not state that I would prefer they cursed them - to show that I can disagree with the actions of a marji' and still consider their rulings because the personal aqeedah of a marji' should not affect their ability to issues fatwas. This whole thing about curing the enemies of Ahlulbayt(as) is completely off topic and should probably be discussed elsewhere. 

 

What? What government are you thinking of that actually manages zakat? 

 

Oh, the irony. And I assume you are with the maraji' and you know all about how they're doing what they can to remove poverty?

 

Why do you keep claiming that helping the poor is the government's duty? Who's to say that it is only the governments duty? The money that is paid as khums to the maraji' is supposed to be spent on various things, as Aftahb kindly pointed out with the ruling of Syed Sistani. See below: 

"Khums, in brief, means paying one-fifth of the surplus of one's income after taking away the expenses of the person and his dependants. It consists of two equal parts: one being the share of the Imam, meaning that this part goes for constructing masjids, Islamic seminaries, Islamic schools, libraries, hospitals or clinics, orphanages, printing of the Noble Quran, hadith books, Islamic books and lectures, and others things which will benefit, defend, or propagate Islam. The second part is the portion for the poor sayyids (descendants of the Prophet), since they are banned from receiving zakat (charity)."

Helping those in need is actually one thing that we can, or should, expect our khums money to be spent on. I don't see any of that happening in todays world, even though there's a dire need for such things in the middle east. If I am to pay my khums directly to a marji', I have a right to expect that money to go towards benefiting, defending or propagating Islam. If I do not see that happening and hence do not trust the maraji' to manage khums accordingly, then I will not pay them directly because I don't have to. 

Also, as someone who lives in the West, I'm pretty sure I have little say in which governments rule third world countries lol. 

 

I simply used my disagreement with the maraji' to PRAISE the enemies of Ahlulbayt(as)

Will you give me name of any maraja who praised them ? please :)

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21 minutes ago, yafatimaalzahra said:

I'm not sure if you're purposefully trying to be insulting or if it's just difficult for you to articulate what you mean. I'm going to assume it's the latter. Regardless, the way you repeatedly keep mentioning womens "greater emotions" is demeaning. For example when you say "I don't think it appropriate to discuss with you because you seem much emotionally driven girlbecause emotions brings haste and haste brings destruction" you are suggesting that I, a person you have never met before or spoken to, am an emotionally driven girl. I take this to mean that you assume all girls are inherently emotionally driven (which you've just proven with your last response). You are literally grouping half of the worlds population, if not more, into one really narrow stereotype. And to top it all off you suggest that because of my being "emotionally driven" I am incapable of understanding various things - first with apparently being too emotionally driven to understand why maraji' lie (I never said they lied, but ok) and then by claiming that I, as a woman, don't understand how "women's love contains more emotions than men". I don't refute that last claim either because I only have my perspective as a woman to judge from and unless you've been both a woman and a man I don't really think you have much say in that either - unless there's some sort of unbiased study that supports this theory. 

All that being said, I have maintained an unwavering expression and steady heart rate throughout the entirety of our discussion and have literally been emotionally idle throughout the whole time. So, your claim of me being emotionally driven because of my gender, is simply ignorant and wrong. Also, this long response to you about your distinct choice of words in regards to women was not constructed because I am mad or annoyed, quite the contrary - I have yet to feel any distinct "emotion" to suggest to me that I am more than simply content. But, I like to be pretty technical when I am trying to discuss something and I would prefer others do the same in order to avoid any confusion. 

Alas, since the main topic of our discussion is maraji' and not womens rights, I think we should let it go and move on with the discussion. 

 

What exactly gives you the impression that I am ok with abusing or name-calling the Sunni leaders? I simply used my disagreement with the maraji' to PRAISE the enemies of Ahlulbayt(as) as an example - I did not state that I would prefer they cursed them - to show that I can disagree with the actions of a marji' and still consider their rulings because the personal aqeedah of a marji' should not affect their ability to issues fatwas. This whole thing about curing the enemies of Ahlulbayt(as) is completely off topic and should probably be discussed elsewhere. 

 

What? What government are you thinking of that actually manages zakat? 

 

Oh, the irony. And I assume you are with the maraji' and you know all about how they're doing what they can to remove poverty?

 

Why do you keep claiming that helping the poor is the government's duty? Who's to say that it is only the governments duty? The money that is paid as khums to the maraji' is supposed to be spent on various things, as Aftahb kindly pointed out with the ruling of Syed Sistani. See below: 

"Khums, in brief, means paying one-fifth of the surplus of one's income after taking away the expenses of the person and his dependants. It consists of two equal parts: one being the share of the Imam, meaning that this part goes for constructing masjids, Islamic seminaries, Islamic schools, libraries, hospitals or clinics, orphanages, printing of the Noble Quran, hadith books, Islamic books and lectures, and others things which will benefit, defend, or propagate Islam. The second part is the portion for the poor sayyids (descendants of the Prophet), since they are banned from receiving zakat (charity)."

Helping those in need is actually one thing that we can, or should, expect our khums money to be spent on. I don't see any of that happening in todays world, even though there's a dire need for such things in the middle east. If I am to pay my khums directly to a marji', I have a right to expect that money to go towards benefiting, defending or propagating Islam. If I do not see that happening and hence do not trust the maraji' to manage khums accordingly, then I will not pay them directly because I don't have to. 

Also, as someone who lives in the West, I'm pretty sure I have little say in which governments rule third world countries lol. 

 

Danish is correct in what he said, as per islamic teachings. These rulings were put by Allah and meant to be executed by the Prophet and their purpose is to make money cycle though the community instead of it being stagnant. The verse in Quran state this clearly. But this is about the very essence of the islamic taxes. Currently we do not have visible contact with our leader (Imam Mahdi) who is the government , so many issues regarding the rules in which an established islamic government is needed is usually discussed. But many lay people discuss issues in which they have little knowledge about.

As far as I know, wHat Danish said is correct and he is trying to tell you what the idea behind the ruling that is not different between maraji'e. All marajie and almost all Muslims agree on it.

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5 minutes ago, Chaotic Muslem said:

Danish is correct in what he said, as per islamic teachings. These rulings were put by Allah and meant to be executed by the Prophet and their purpose is to make money cycle though the community instead of it being stagnant. The verse in Quran state this clearly. But this is about the very essence of the islamic taxes. Currently we do not have visible contact with our leader (Imam Mahdi) who is the government , so many issues regarding the rules in which an established islamic government is needed is usually discussed. But many lay people discuss issues in which they have little knowledge about.

As far as I know, wHat Danish said is correct and he is trying to tell you what the idea behind the ruling that is not different between maraji'e. All marajie and almost all Muslims agree on it.

And as I have been trying to tell Danish, I do not disagree with the requirement of having to pay khums. What I disagree with is the apparent obligation for me to pay it to the maraji'. 

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6 minutes ago, yafatimaalzahra said:

^ Sayed Fadhlullah, Sayed Sadr and Sayed Sistani to name a few. Just so you know, I consider saying (ra) after their names as a praise - which is technically the incorrect term to use. 

This is praise in your opinion ? 

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8 minutes ago, Danish14 said:

This is praise in your opinion ? 

Apologies, praise was the incorrect term to use. Correction: "I simply used my disagreement with the maraji', whom verbally wish for Allah(swt) to be pleased with the enemies of Ahlulbayt(as), as an example".

Edited by yafatimaalzahra
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4 minutes ago, yafatimaalzahra said:

Apologies, praise was the incorrect term to use. Correction: "I simply used my disagreement with the maraji' whom verbally wish for Allah(swt) to be pleased with the enemies of Ahlulbayt(as) as an example".

What is your age ?

Because I think either there is very young person behind pc or a person of mature intellect.

If it is case one, then such person needs to pay visit to Marajas to understand them.

If it is case two, then it probably be a test for ideas. 

In either case, I am with marajas and with unity of Muslims.

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4 minutes ago, yafatimaalzahra said:

And as I have been trying to tell Danish, I do not disagree with the requirement of having to pay khums. What I disagree with is the apparent obligation for me to pay it to the maraji'. 

It is because Khums is divided to the :

1- Allah's portion

2- Prophet's portion

3- Prophets relative who shall inherit him portion

4- Poors among the clan of hashim (descendants of imams)

5- Orphans from the clan of hashim

6- Travelers who lost everything and cannot go back home from the clan of hashim

 

The three last portions are collectively called "Sahm Sadaam" Portions of Syeds or decendants of imams

the portion of Allah was given to the prophet during prophet life,

the portion of the prophet was given to imams during their lives

so the first three portions are called collectively "sahm imam" or the portion of the leader

 

Since the leader cannot be accessed today and since he represent religion and since we cannot and shall not spend that money because it is his money but we can't throw t away either (though some ancient scholars did that) so when you send it to scholars, the spend it on spreading religion, making education of religion free of charge for all, making books can be free of charge by all etc 

The last three portions are spent accordingly , some people take permission from scholar to spend the last three portions on the poor sayeds in their locality.

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12 minutes ago, Chaotic Muslem said:

It is because Khums is divided to the :

1- Allah's portion

2- Prophet's portion

3- Prophets relative who shall inherit him portion

4- Poors among the clan of hashim (descendants of imams)

5- Orphans from the clan of hashim

6- Travelers who lost everything and cannot go back home from the clan of hashim

 

The three last portions are collectively called "Sahm Sadaam" Portions of Syeds or decendants of imams

the portion of Allah was given to the prophet during prophet life,

the portion of the prophet was given to imams during their lives

so the first three portions are called collectively "sahm imam" or the portion of the leader

 

Since the leader cannot be accessed today and since he represent religion and since we cannot and shall not spend that money because it is his money but we can't throw t away either (though some ancient scholars did that) so when you send it to scholars, the spend it on spreading religion, making education of religion free of charge for all, making books can be free of charge by all etc 

The last three portions are spent accordingly , some people take permission from scholar to spend the last three portions on the poor sayeds in their locality.

I will pay one portion of khums to a person who serves Ahle-bait's cause first because it is what Imam Ali a.s said: "Ulemas are poor because the ignorant do not have regard for them". I am not going to abandon Imam Ali a.s advice. Secondly, portion of Allah, Prophet and Ahle bait belongs to marajas because infallible fourteen a.s said that our scholars are heirs of our knowledge so they must be given such portion. Where as other part of Khums shall be spend for Sayeds. As for travellers and other non-sayed destitute there is institution of zakar. 

Edited by Danish14
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4 minutes ago, Danish14 said:

I will pay khums to a person who serves Ahle-bait's cause first because it is what Imam Ali a.s said: "Ulemas are poor because the ignorant do not have regard for them". I am not going to abandon Imam Ali a.s advice. Secondly, portion of Allah, Prophet and Ahle bait belongs to marajas because infallible fourteen a.s said that our scholars are our heirs so they must be given such portion. Where as other part of Khums shall be spend for Sayeds. As for travellers and other non-sayed destitute there is institution of zakar. 

saying that khums belong to maraji is wrong. They even will disagree with you. They do not own that khums. When they die, and there is some money from Khums at their hands, their sons should not inheirit the money.

Margate are simply the machine that distribute the money or the hub in which the money gather then be directed to teaching and spreading religion. It is ,the money, after all Allah', his prophet's and ahlulbyt's. We cannot claim it to ourselves nor give it away with intention to give to maraji. Our intention should be that it is spent in a way that pleases Allah, his prophet and ahlulbayt particularly imam mahdi.

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5 minutes ago, Chaotic Muslem said:

saying that khums belong to maraji is wrong. They even will disagree with you. They do not own that khums. When they die, and there is some money from Khums at their hands, their sons should not inheirit the money.

Margate are simply the machine that distribute the money or the hub in which the money gather then be directed to teaching and spreading religion. It is ,the money, after all Allah', his prophet's and ahlulbyt's. We cannot claim it to ourselves nor give it away with intention to give to maraji. Our intention should be that it is spent in a way that pleases Allah, his prophet and ahlulbayt particularly imam mahdi.

What if a maraja is syed ? is not it right to give second portion to them....legal right. so how you say that they cannot hold khums because Ahle-bait gave them right. Khums of Imam Mehdi a,.s have to be spent for religious purpose but if they are granted second portion of khums for being sayed than its ok as religion permits them to old for their exclusive use. likewise, some portion of zakat shall be given to non-sayed ulemas....I just want to say that do not neglect your religion scholars, do not make life difficult for them by opposing them at every point. If they show dishonesty then raise voice but you have not gone through any marajas life so why are we talking against them. They are not talking whole of Khums and zakat. 

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11 hours ago, Danish14 said:

What if a maraja is syed ? is not it right to give second portion to them....legal right. so how you say that they cannot hold khums because Ahle-bait gave them right. Khums of Imam Mehdi a,.s have to be spent for religious purpose but if they are granted second portion of khums for being sayed than its ok as religion permits them to old for their exclusive use. likewise, some portion of zakat shall be given to non-sayed ulemas....I just want to say that do not neglect your religion scholars, do not make life difficult for them by opposing them at every point. If they show dishonesty then raise voice but you have not gone through any marajas life so why are we talking against them. They are not talking whole of Khums and zakat. 

No.

The only Sayeds eligible for Khums are the three categories above : Poor, orphan or unfortunate traveller.

If your MArj'e is not Sayed, you still have to give him Khums so he distribute it.

Distribution of khums is different than consuming it. Sayeds who are not poor are forbidden from consuming khums. They may collect it or distribute it but not consume it and use it for any purpose.

 

Scholars were given permission to distribute it due to their knowledge of the narrations of imams and their meanings, thus they should have better insight of how this money should be distributed and better conscious not to waste it on personal or pointless stuff.

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10 hours ago, Chaotic Muslem said:

No.

The only Sayeds eligible for Khums are the three categories above : Poor, orphan or unfortunate traveller.

If your MArj'e is not Sayed, you still have to give him Khums so he distribute it.

Distribution of khums is different than consuming it. Sayeds who are not poor are forbidden from consuming khums. They may collect it or distribute it but not consume it and use it for any purpose.

 

Scholars were given permission to distribute it due to their knowledge of the narrations of imams and their meanings, thus they should have better insight of how this money should be distributed and better conscious not to waste it on personal or pointless stuff.

Lol, so there is a campaign in place to weaken marajas and ulema.  Yes, there are people who like you say that ulema do majlis for free and should not ask for money and on other hand stop marajas from receiving khums and zakat. Do you know that a portion of that can also be given to the collectors themselves.  I disagree with you in entirety and consider your opinion to be meant for destroying and weakening scholars. I do not like it and please end it right here because I am not going to fight against Imam mehdi a.s. 

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Certainly, Ulema who meet qualities set by the infallible imams, including piety, knowledge, basirat, understanding of hadith and Quran, adl (justice),  are held in much higher status than regular people.

Shaykh al-Sadiq transmits in his book ‘Ikmal al-Deen wa itmam an-Ni'ma’ that Ishaq ibn Yaqub wrote a letter to the absent Imam asking him about some concerns that he had. The Imam's deputy (Muhammad ibn Uthman al-Umari) conveyed the letter to him. The Imam replied:

As for events that may occur (al-hawadith al-waqi'a) [when you may need guidance] refer to the transmitters (ruwat) of our teachings who are my Hujjah (proof) upon you as I am the proof of Allah (Hujjatullah) upon them

Shaykh al-Tusi also transmits the narration in the book ‘al- Qayba’3 and other collections of Imami ahadith report the tradition from the books mentioned above.

- One aspect of khums has been keeping the Shia scholarship independent. We can make comparison to Sunni ulema who are beholden to their rulers, and tow the line, while Shias ulema have continuously been able to maintain their own path separate from the rulers. Financial independence allows for implementing projects within the Islamic community and spreading Islamic values as the ulema intend and not as others dictate.

 

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On 5/9/2016 at 2:48 PM, Danish14 said:

Lol, so there is a campaign in place to weaken marajas and ulema.  Yes, there are people who like you say that ulema do majlis for free and should not ask for money and on other hand stop marajas from receiving khums and zakat. Do you know that a portion of that can also be given to the collectors themselves.  I disagree with you in entirety and consider your opinion to be meant for destroying and weakening scholars. I do not like it and please end it right here because I am not going to fight against Imam mehdi a.s. 

Spot on brother @Danish14.

@yafatimaalzahra - are you against marajae or paying khums to them?

 

small example of what happens with the Khums money:

Sistani: supporting the refugees in Iraq

Najafi: running of the hawza in Iraq for free with stipends to each student

Khamenai: running of the hawza in Iran for free with stipends to each student

Khamenai: Worldwide propogation of Shia faith eg. Maulana Zak Zaki in Nigeria. He didnt stumble upon over a million followers. He was ably supported by Iran.

Iraq & Iran Marajae: supporting the shia families that have been victims of violence.

These are just some of the common things everyone knows about. I am sure there is more behind the scenes.

Even if there is no religious ruling on khums one way or another, it is still a greater setup for the Shia that has enabled us to be stronger than we have ever been.

Anyone against marajae and khums is either too ignorant and like termites in our faith or have other ulterior agendas.

 

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12 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

Spot on brother @Danish14.

@yafatimaalzahra - are you against marajae or paying khums to them?

 

small example of what happens with the Khums money:

Sistani: supporting the refugees in Iraq

Najafi: running of the hawza in Iraq for free with stipends to each student

Khamenai: running of the hawza in Iran for free with stipends to each student

Khamenai: Worldwide propogation of Shia faith eg. Maulana Zak Zaki in Nigeria. He didnt stumble upon over a million followers. He was ably supported by Iran.

Iraq & Iran Marajae: supporting the shia families that have been victims of violence.

These are just some of the common things everyone knows about. I am sure there is more behind the scenes.

Even if there is no religious ruling on khums one way or another, it is still a greater setup for the Shia that has enabled us to be stronger than we have ever been.

Anyone against marajae and khums is either too ignorant and like termites in our faith or have other ulterior agendas.

 

Brother this is how has been happening since the time of Syeda Zehra a.s snatching away her right of Fidak and now, it is time for their followers to suffer such things but such things are not going to weakening those who love the message of Allah (SWT). In Quran, Allah (SWT) says that there are some that who try to blew the light (of guidance) but it will never happen. So, let them try hard by standing on their toes but even then their point of nose will not coincide with sky because it is too high for them. I caution youth beware of the mischievous ones because it was satan who in the garb of an old pious person passed by the door of Hazrat Hajar a.s to stop Hazrat Ibrahim a.s from fulfilling the promise of Allah (SWT) but she stoned him and every youth shall pick stones in their tongues like the birds who destroyed the ranks of Abraha who tried to demolish the house of Allah (SWT). May all make me His bird with stone in my mouth against his enemy. May He (SWT) make all of youth of this era His birds. Ameen

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I have some questions regarding the whole discussion:

1)How does one compare rulings of two marjas and choose the better one? What principles he/she follows? And how does he/she found these principles?

2)Were people in the time of our holy Imams a.s   were not poor? Can someone say that (mazALLAH) imams neglected their duties?

3)How does one know that his aqeeda is better than the Ulmas? How does one compares his/her views with those of Ulmas? 

 

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12 hours ago, GhazanfarJafri said:

I have some questions regarding the whole discussion:

1)How does one compare rulings of two marjas and choose the better one? What principles he/she follows? And how does he/she found these principles?

2)Were people in the time of our holy Imams a.s   were not poor? Can someone say that (mazALLAH) imams neglected their duties?

3)How does one know that his aqeeda is better than the Ulmas? How does one compares his/her views with those of Ulmas? 

 

1) usually you should follow the marja who's taqleed you are under but a lot of marajae say it is okay to follow another marja on a certain matter if that marja is more learned on that topic.

2) Yes there were poor back then too and the Imams used to disperse of the Khums money they recieved as they saw fit - I suppose wherever they thought was the greatest need.

3) Unless one is more knowledgeable than an aalim, one would think of oneself as better than an aalim based on arrogance.

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7 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

1) usually you should follow the marja who's taqleed you are under but a lot of marajae say it is okay to follow another marja on a certain matter if that marja is more learned on that topic.

2) Yes there were poor back then too and the Imams used to disperse of the Khums money they recieved as they saw fit - I suppose wherever they thought was the greatest need.

3) Unless one is more knowledgeable than an aalim, one would think of oneself as better than an aalim based on arrogance.

Dear brother thats the point.People who talk against Marjas have very weak reasonigs to support their case.And yes in "Ahtiyat e wajib" one can refer to next most knowledgeable Mujtahid.

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Gonna offer my two cents and hope it doesn't become too long. This is by no means a comprehensive response.

 

#1

Brother @magma made this point in the past and I liked the way he said it: infallibility is not a kind of binary value. It's not just either a 1 or a 0. And this is not some kind of new age hippiespeak either; this is embedded in our religion. On the one hand, we believe that all the Imams were infallible, and yet on the other hand we believe that no Imam was greater than Imam Ali. And we believe that in spite of all the prophets and imams who have come and were infallible, none of them were as great as the Seal of the Prophets (SAWS). If infallibility were a binary category, would this be the case?

 

Or for example we have individuals like Sayyeda Zaynab, or Abul Fadhl al-Abbas, who were neither prophets nor were they among the 14 infallibles and yet do we consider them to have any fault or shortcoming? Of course not!

 

We have 124 thousand prophets, most of whom we do not even know. All of them were infallible. Not all of them, however, were equal. We have narrations that say that if someone reaches a high level of zuhd (asceticism) and piety then he can exceed the level of some prophets. This is obviously not referring to prophets Musa or Issa or the other archprophets but to the other 124 thousand. Ordinary people like us can exceed some of those prophets. This is not beyond our capacity.

 

#2

We have established that there are levels of infallibility; that it is not a binary value. For example, if one abstains from every canonical sin (everything haraam), then that person is ma'soom on some level. Doesn't drink, doesn't earn haraam money, doesn't gamble, doesn't oppress others, doesn't backbite, does every prayer, does every fast he needs to, and so on. That's on a most basic level; most of us are seeking this level, some of us alhamdulillah have reached this level.

 

But for example, when someone like Sheikh Bahjat rejects even things which are mubah (permissible and halal), then we know that there is more to it than that. Doing everything that is obligatory and not doing anything that is prohibited is just the first stepping stone. People can exceed that, and many have.

 

When Imam Khomeini was in Najaf, he refused to have a fan because the majority of people there could not afford a fan. In that context it was neither haraam nor even makruh to have a fan, but nonetheless he refused. And this is a lifestyle he kept until the very end, even when he had the baytul mal of an entire country at his disposal, budgeting his expenses down to the individual toman (back then the toman wasn't quite as worthless as it is today but it was still just a fraction of a cent).

 

#3

In our worldview and our school of thought, knowledge is not separate from action. Or rather, if it is separate from action, it becomes very harmful. For example: Iblis was very knowledgeable. His problem was not lack of knowledge but rather an unwillingless to put that knowledge into practice.

 

Or for example, we see many orientalists have so much knowledge about Islam; much more knowledge than we have and much more knowledge than even most of the muammam scholars who come out of Qom or Najaf. (I am not talking about the bigwigs; I am talking about the rank-and-file mu'ammams of which there are many; not everyone becomes a bigwig like Ayatollah Javadi Amoli). And yet, their very purpose is so undermine Islam and to subvert the Muslims.

 

We admire those with great knowledge but only if they act upon this knowledge. Thus, if you are following someone in fiqh but you do not like his character, you should defo look for someone who has both knowledge and is just. We cannot even pray behind someone if he is not adil (just), and the requirements for a marja is much more than the requirements of an imam of prayers.

 

A marja is supposed to meet these standards.

 

Regarding khums, firstly: khums is generally used to keep the hawza system functioning. I know there are specific fiqhi rules as to where else khums money can go to. And I am not familiar with all of those things for which it is permissible to use khums money. But it is not simply a poor tax, and so you cannot say that sadaqa (a mustahab action) overrides the obligatory nature of khums.

 

Khums is the reason why someone from North America, South Asia, West Africa, Eastern Europe or anywhere else in the world can go to Qom, have a room, have three square meals a day, a free education, and a stipend. It's the reason why someone from Canada or any other country halfway across the world, can go to a masjid in Iran, take a book for free, and fill out a form that allows him to get books sent to his house periodically (also for free). Khums is the basis for that whole economy, which is a beautiful economy. The entire world has become enveloped in filthy, exploitation- and interest-based economics. The existence of khums allows this other economy to continue to exist, even if it is on a much smaller scale than the haraam economy.

 

Does this mean every cent of khums is used correctly? Of course not. But guess what? Even if your khums was being paid to an infallible Imam, there would be the same problem. The Imam himself cannot distribute the baytul mal personally to every member of the ummah. Can he?

 

It's really unfair to blame maraja for khums corruption, unless there is a tangible connection between them and said corruption.

 

Personally, I am thankful that we have such just and righteous role models. I think this is what prevents the sort of eclectic, academic free-for-all sort of environment that prevails with the lack of religious leadership (by this I mean current and available religious leadership; not this whole "Imam Mahdi is my marja" movement which is egoism disguised as humility and loyalty). So I am thankful; not because I am a blind follower or a sheeple, but for the simple reasons that can be observed with plain eyes: for example, look at the amount of khums money which flows toward Seyyed Ali Khamenei. Then look at his house. Would YOU have a house that looks like that, if you had all that khums money going your way? Would I? This is a question we should ask ourselves. It's very easy to be critical and "shakkak" (doubtful) but it is hard to answer this simple questions.

Edited by baradar_jackson
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