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In the Name of God بسم الله

How can god transcend time

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how can god transcend time.

Time is defined as: 

The indefinite progress of existence and events in the past, present and whole.

Since god exists does that not mean that time exists as well since time is the progress of existence and since  God exists, progress of time also takes place.

Furthermore, God bringing time into existence require time. It requires the sucession of two events. God existing along with no time and then bringing time into existence again implies the existence of time. 

God existing in no time and then bringing time into existence implies time existing. Especially the words and then signify that god bought time into existence within the framework of a bigger concept of time.

Can you help me understand how God transcends time 

Finally if God does not transcend time does that not imply that there wete an infinite number of events and hence and infinite regression can happen.

 

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Edited by Qasim_Husayn
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24 minutes ago, Qasim_Husayn said:

how can god transcend time.

Time is defined as: 

The indefinite progress of existence and events in the past, present and whole.

Since god exists does that not mean that time exists as well since time is the progress of existence and since  God exists, progress of time also takes place.

Furthermore, God bringing time into existence require time. It requires the sucession of two events. God existing along with no time and then bringing time into existence again implies the existence of time. 

God existing in no time and then bringing time into existence implies time existing. Especially the words and then signify that god bought time into existence within the framework of a bigger concept of time.

Can you help me understand how God transcends time 

Finally if God does not transcend time does that not imply that there wete an infinite number of events and hence and infinite regression can happen.

 

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what @certainclarity said. Also time by itself it nothing more than a measurement. we have different instruments to measure it but of its own it is undefined. The measurement of time is done using the creations of Allah such as light, sun, stars, etc. Hence Allah preceded time because first came Allah, then the tools to measure time.

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15 minutes ago, Qasim_Husayn said:

Since god exists does that not mean that time exists as well since time is the progress of existence and since  God exists, progress of time also takes place.

Time exists as a creation , not as an equivalent to God , God is not limited to anything , when you limit God he is no longer God

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As we define existence, existence requires persistence. But we don't even know 1/1000000 of all there is to know. We don't even know what time is or how it works. How can we presume to know The Creator? 

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DRAYGOMB's PARADOX

I have posted this before but it didn't run, I find it quite interesting ...

Definitions:

God is defined as The Conscious First Cause.  
The First Cause is That which caused Time.
Consciousness is that which lets one make a decision.
A Decision is the action of changing one’s mind from undecided to decided.
Time is the measure of change.

Premises:
Something which is caused can't be required by that which causes it.
Conclusions:
Time is required for Change.
A Decision is a Change.
Decisions require Time.
Consciousness can't let one make a decision without Time.
Consciousness requires Time.
God is Conscious.
God requires Time.
God can't be the cause of Time if God requires Time.
God isn't the cause of Time.

 

Any comments?
 

* :) 

Edited by Quisant
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Now these are just my two cents, I've asked someone about this issue who might give a better answer,

God transcends physical time but not necessarily order.

You could argue that God is confined to the "boundaries" of order. Sure. Just like how he is confined to not being able to make a 4 sided triangle. To simply be able to do either would imply logical contradictions which God is not able to do.

The lack of anything (true nothingess) existing except god, and then causing something to exist implies order. But not necessarily imply the existence of physical time forever. This is because God could have simultaneously caused space and physical time to exist.

 

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23 minutes ago, Qasim_Husayn said:

Now these are just my two cents, I've asked someone about this issue who might give a better answer,

God transcends physical time but not necessarily order.

You could argue that God is confined to the "boundaries" of order. Sure. Just like how he is confined to not being able to make a 4 sided triangle. To simply be able to do either would imply logical contradictions which God is not able to do.

The lack of anything (true nothingess) existing except god, and then causing something to exist implies order. But not necessarily imply the existence of physical time forever. This is because God could have simultaneously caused space and physical time to exist.

 

 

Read my post, the one just above yours: 

Something which is caused can't be required by that which causes it.

*

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On 28 April 2016 at 6:15 PM, Qasim_Husayn said:

how can god transcend time.

Time is defined as: 

The indefinite progress of existence and events in the past, present and whole.

Since god exists does that not mean that time exists as well since time is the progress of existence and since  God exists, progress of time also takes place.

Furthermore, God bringing time into existence require time. It requires the sucession of two events. God existing along with no time and then bringing time into existence again implies the existence of time. 

God existing in no time and then bringing time into existence implies time existing. Especially the words and then signify that god bought time into existence within the framework of a bigger concept of time.

Can you help me understand how God transcends time 

Finally if God does not transcend time does that not imply that there wete an infinite number of events and hence and infinite regression can happen.

 

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What a great question!  How do you think of these things?  I think you are gifted.  Because a lot of people don't bother asking such questions in the way that you have done.  Time is such an abstract concept!  Mashallah.  Good for you!

Let's talk about this privately if you are up for it (like over Skype).  I have a double degree in Western Philosophy and Islamic Mysticism and would love to discuss such issues and see what you think.

Ethereal

 

 

 

 

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Ever heard of the question, "When did God create everything?"  Or, "When did time begin?"  Correct me if I am wrong, but this basically seems to be what you are asking.  Or you can also ask a somewhat related question,  why did He have to create at the time that He chose to create?  Why couldn't He have created it before, or why couldn't He have waited after?  

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On 28/04/2016 at 3:15 AM, Qasim_Husayn said:

how can god transcend time.

Time is defined as: 

The indefinite progress of existence and events in the past, present and whole.

Since god exists does that not mean that time exists as well since time is the progress of existence and since  God exists, progress of time also takes place.

Furthermore, God bringing time into existence require time. It requires the sucession of two events. God existing along with no time and then bringing time into existence again implies the existence of time. 

God existing in no time and then bringing time into existence implies time existing. Especially the words and then signify that god bought time into existence within the framework of a bigger concept of time.

Can you help me understand how God transcends time 

Finally if God does not transcend time does that not imply that there wete an infinite number of events and hence and infinite regression can happen.

 

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Qasim your answers are here:

1. Explain transcend into easier words so that I may learn too

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Time applies to mortal things. It came into existence when God created creation so as he created universe time got birth along with it. And with that creation he also provided it with enough properties to last up to particular time. So, time is for creation and got Birth with creation and was prolonged for creation by the properties which were inculcated into it to withstand upto time appointed. Now, what the atheist asked you about Gid's relation with universe?  Explain so I may learn it too.

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On ۱۳۹۵/۲/۹ ه‍.ش. at 2:45 AM, Qasim_Husayn said:

how can god transcend time.

How God transcend time??

To answer this question it is necessary to identify the nature of time at the beginning, after familiarity with the nature of time, we can easily understand how God transcend time? To become familiar with nature of time I refer to Mulla Sadra’s point of view about the subject under discussion he believes that time is the amount of motion and regular change which take place in the nature of all phenomenon in material world, based on this definition we easily draw the following conclusions: firstly   time is something which drive from motion and changing of the phenomenon of this world toward perfection. Secondly time is something which has close relationship with material existent because only this world is a place where change and motion take place, taking in to consideration these two conclusion it is time to realize how God transcend time? Based on Islamic teaching and Quranic verses God is not material being which are subject to change and instability, so,    God is beyond time and place .         

 

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On 08/05/2016 at 7:58 AM, eThErEaL said:

Ever heard of the question, "When did God create everything?"  Or, "When did time begin?"  Correct me if I am wrong, but this basically seems to be what you are asking.  Or you can also ask a somewhat related question,  why did He have to create at the time that He chose to create?  Why couldn't He have created it before, or why couldn't He have waited after?  

Q:-When did God created everything ?

Answer:- God created everything when he willed.

Q:- When did time begin?

Answer:- Time begin when His will was followed by His creation.

Q:-Why did He have to create at the time that He choose to create ?

Answer:- There is not time for Him, He wills whenever He wants, He may delay it or He may make it happen. All things revolve around his will, If He chose to create, He will make it in such a way that it will do whatever He wants and otherwise.

Q:- Why couldn't He have created it before or why He couldn't have waited after ?

Answer:- Before and after are for creation. For Him, it is His will and determination and He is master of His will. He willed to create when He confirms it to Happen. After creation does not improves his knowledge so that He may do some experiment and delay its creation for improvements, His knowledge is absolute, Before is not an obstruction for Him because He is self-existing, ever-living, before every creation and after every end so there is no fear for Him that He may create  before otherwise He will get extinct.. Since there is no age for Him and there is no end for Him, and He is older of all and strongest of all. He is master of Time and everything.

Edited by Danish14
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On 4/29/2016 at 11:32 AM, Quisant said:

DRAYGOMB's PARADOX

I have posted this before but it didn't run, I find it quite interesting ...

Definitions:

God is defined as The Conscious First Cause.  
The First Cause is That which caused Time.
Consciousness is that which lets one make a decision.
A Decision is the action of changing one’s mind from undecided to decided.
Time is the measure of change.

Premises:
Something which is caused can't be required by that which causes it.
Conclusions:
Time is required for Change.
A Decision is a Change.
Decisions require Time.
Consciousness can't let one make a decision without Time.
Consciousness requires Time.
God is Conscious.
God requires Time.
God can't be the cause of Time if God requires Time.
God isn't the cause of Time.

 

Any comments?
 

* :) 

" Consciousness can't let one make a decision without Time.
Consciousness requires Time. "

How do you explain dreams in which it seems you can process the information of what seems to be a day in a couple hours.

Consciousness is not bound by time.

A super AI could process an infinite number of things at once.

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We learn from the Quran that God is the originator of everything. E.g. "Say: Allah is the Creator of all things." (13:16).

This implies two states. In state A, God existed alone. In state B, God existed alongside His creation. Where A is before the act of creation, and B is after the act of creation.

But for there to be a 'before' and an 'after' requires Him to exist in time. No?

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1 hour ago, eThErEaL said:

Numbers of creatures are in fact infinite and must be infinite because God creativity is infinite.  

:salam:

:bismillah:

Surah Al-Jinn, Verse 28:

لِّيَعْلَمَ أَن قَدْ أَبْلَغُوا رِسَالَاتِ رَبِّهِمْ وَأَحَاطَ بِمَا لَدَيْهِمْ وَأَحْصَىٰ كُلَّ شَيْءٍ عَدَدًا

So that He may know that they have truly delivered the messages of their Lord, and He encompasses what is with them and He records the number of all things.

(English - Shakir)

If creatures are infinite, what do you think about the record (of the numbers of things) mentioned in above verse? 

Is it possible to record an infinity?

 

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2 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

:salam:

:bismillah:

Surah Al-Jinn, Verse 28:

لِّيَعْلَمَ أَن قَدْ أَبْلَغُوا رِسَالَاتِ رَبِّهِمْ وَأَحَاطَ بِمَا لَدَيْهِمْ وَأَحْصَىٰ كُلَّ شَيْءٍ عَدَدًا

So that He may know that they have truly delivered the messages of their Lord, and He encompasses what is with them and He records the number of all things.

(English - Shakir)

If creatures are infinite, what do you think about the record (of the numbers of things) mentioned in above verse? 

Is it possible to record an infinity?

 

Salam,

the creatures are His manifestation.  And because He is Infinite, His manifestation is indefinite.  Nothing can exhaust His being.  Now each creature is a word of God.  And each word is an expression of God.  And God says in the Quran:

Pickthall: And if all the trees in the earth were pens, and the sea, with seven more seas to help it, (were ink), the words of Allah could not be exhausted. Lo! Allah is Mighty, Wise.

http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=31&verse=27#(31:27:1)

 

 

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On 4/28/2016 at 6:15 PM, Qasim_Husayn said:

how can god transcend time.

You question is not applicable here, based on “Science”.

Philosophy of Time, Physics of Time, Absolute Time, Quantum Time, Relativistic Time.

http://www.exactlywhatistime.com/physics-of-time/

What is Time and Space.

What is time and Space according to StringTheory.

https://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/science/questions/superstring.html

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9 hours ago, shadow_of_light said:

But it is impossible. Creatures are real not abstract like numbers so how can they be infinite? Just imagine if the number of humans were infinite...was it possible?

if you see it in this following way it is not only possible but necessary:

at every moment there is a new creation.  And each moment is a new moment. There is only the present moment.  The past does not exist and the future does not exist except as mere ideas in our minds (those ideas of the past and the future are themselves happening now).  At every moment, or rather in the present moment God is renewing the creation.  Creation is, in fact, nothing but a renewal of itself.  Creation is always fresh ("out the Oven").  So, when does creation begin?  The answer is, now!  When is creation ending?  Now.  No sooner it comes into existence than it ceases to exist and is replaced by another creation.  

This process is indefinite.  

 

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