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In the Name of God بسم الله

What is considered magic? Is "magic" real?

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Salam, 

I'm curious as to what people consider magic. Is it the art of deception (i.e. modern magic) or is there more to it? 

I partly ask, because my mother firmly believes in the evil eye and that we were once truly cursed. I don't remember this exactly since I was young. My younger brother cried whenever she put him in his buggy/pram. At some point she dreamt of three "devil" heads hovering around the buggy and my young brother crying in response to that. She went to our garage and had a thorough check. She found a rat's tail, some hair, some bones among other things wrapped in 2 plastic bags stashed under the buggy. The buggy/pram was a present from Iran meant for a family friend's daughter. She didn't like it much though and gave it to my mother instead. After she found the bag, my mother had my older brother (7 years old then) urinate on it. A lot of bad things had happened before she'd found the bag and continued to happen, though I believe bad can/would have happened irregardless. She firmly began to believe in the effects of evil eye and magic since. She started doing little things then too, like burn rue seeds or throw eggs at our front door after painting little prayers on them. The oddest thing she'd ever done was put a palm print above our front door using chicken blood (the chickens were slaughtered for other reasons). The coolest thing she'd ever done is spread salt around my room (supernatural fans will understand xD). 

Personally, I'm still not convinced. I do believe in the law of attraction. In a sense I always thought the evil eye works only if you allow yourself to believe someone is envying you (thereby affecting your mentality resulting in altered actions hence different outcomes). But my mother paints a different picture. I can't accept the idea of black magic the way it is potrayed in movies and the way many choose to describe it. It doesn't stop there with the "supernatural". I don't believe we're able to see jinn nor do I believe we can control or be (literally) possessed by them. Still, I hate to dismiss the experiences described by my mother and aunts, in arrogance. I trust my mother and I love her deeply. Whenever she insists what she and her family had experienced was real I remind myself that studies have shown it is possible to create false memories (memory implantation?). 

An odd thread to start, but hey-! Exams are over and I have some time to spare (today at least xD). 

Thanks for reading 

:ws: 

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I think the influence of Satan and how he afflicts people with uncleanness, and his forces, would be deemed magic. I also don't believe Waswas is just simply whispers, but ways to impart us with beliefs from hidden forces of the dark one.  I believe this by experience of Quran, that there is for example, real locks on the hearts that keep people from reflection and seeing it's clear signs. I believe humanity on a large scale is afflicted by dark magic. I believe it can be annulled.  

I believe also people with mental illness are more susceptible to afflictions by Satanic forces. 

There is degrees of affliction.

That said, there is also obedient spirits, Angelic and friends of God, that help in the unseen. 

There is a way to ignite your inward sword of God, the sword of honor, and fight back. 

God allowed us to be afflicted so can awaken a will power that becomes real power in unseen, and makes us come closer to God.

At first it's hard to attack the Satanic forces back, specially, when we are practically dead in the graves due to them, but with a little effort, we can begin to ignite that light and power and skyward sword.

 

 

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4 hours ago, yusur317 said:

Salam, 

I'm curious as to what people consider magic. Is it the art of deception (i.e. modern magic) or is there more to it? 

I partly ask, because my mother firmly believes in the evil eye and that we were once truly cursed. I don't remember this exactly since I was young. My younger brother cried whenever she put him in his buggy/pram. At some point she dreamt of three "devil" heads hovering around the buggy and my young brother crying in response to that. She went to our garage and had a thorough check. She found a rat's tail, some hair, some bones among other things wrapped in 2 plastic bags stashed under the buggy. The buggy/pram was a present from Iran meant for a family friend's daughter. She didn't like it much though and gave it to my mother instead. After she found the bag, my mother had my older brother (7 years old then) urinate on it. A lot of bad things had happened before she'd found the bag and continued to happen, though I believe bad can/would have happened irregardless. She firmly began to believe in the effects of evil eye and magic since. She started doing little things then too, like burn rue seeds or throw eggs at our front door after painting little prayers on them. The oddest thing she'd ever done was put a palm print above our front door using chicken blood (the chickens were slaughtered for other reasons). The coolest thing she'd ever done is spread salt around my room (supernatural fans will understand xD). 

Personally, I'm still not convinced. I do believe in the law of attraction. In a sense I always thought the evil eye works only if you allow yourself to believe someone is envying you (thereby affecting your mentality resulting in altered actions hence different outcomes). But my mother paints a different picture. I can't accept the idea of black magic the way it is potrayed in movies and the way many choose to describe it. It doesn't stop there with the "supernatural". I don't believe we're able to see jinn nor do I believe we can control or be (literally) possessed by them. Still, I hate to dismiss the experiences described by my mother and aunts, in arrogance. I trust my mother and I love her deeply. Whenever she insists what she and her family had experienced was real I remind myself that studies have shown it is possible to create false memories (memory implantation?). 

An odd thread to start, but hey-! Exams are over and I have some time to spare (today at least xD). 

Thanks for reading 

:ws: 

"  I do believe in the law of attraction. In a sense I always thought the evil eye works only if you allow yourself to believe someone is envying you (thereby affecting your mentality resulting in altered actions hence different outcomes).  "

 

I have not heard the term "law of attraction" used before, but this is precisely what it is. We all have family and maybe even friends who are caught up in the same thing. But for those with a skeptical eye, it becomes apparent that these things just arent real as some describe them to be. And yes it is possible to create false memories and to convince oneself of things that just arent true.

I know someone that believed in an evil spirit, that if you looked in a mirror and said her name, she would appear. 

I asked the question, what happens when two people in two different places say the name in the mirror at the same time?

Of course this question could never be answered.  I stood at the mirror and said the name, and of course nothing happened, as a demonstration. 

The point is, there are ways to test if these ideas are truth or not.  Those who believe in these dark magic things,    arent "testers". They typically do not think in a particularly critical way. It doesnt mean theyre ignorant, they just think differently. And without the critical thoughts judging their ideas, theyre susceptible to believing unjustifiable concepts.

 

How about this, instead of simply asking what people think, why not create a way to test it? Some people say that you shouldnt meddle around with evil magic, like wigi boards n such. And you shouldnt go to those psychics and all.  But if you examine these things with a skeptical eye and devise tests and questions for them, you will see that its all just a bunch of bologna.

Edited by iCambrian
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Consider this...

Lets say the evil eye is real. Now, i do not know much about it, but i saw you said that it "curses" people.

If someone could give another person an evil eye, and curse them....after hundreds of years, wouldnt organizations have learned how to master the practice of giving the evil eye? Would it not be projected on a giant tv screen and broadcasted in the countries of enemies by the media?

These dark magic things, if they were real, people would study them and learn how to manipulate and use them and it would likely be widely understood.  The same goes with magical healing.  It would be present in every hospital. Alchemy, it would be present in every laboratory. Pyromancy, it would be present in every....kitchen?  etc.

But instead, the more people question these things, the more they simply disappear.

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Magic doesnt exist, it's human imagination. Your mother has a mental and social behaviorly issues. Stop wasting your life believing something as silly as that. 

As for rat droppings, get a good rat poison and clean up your house. Nothing magical about that.

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20 hours ago, StrugglingForTheLight said:

I think the influence of Satan and how he afflicts people with uncleanness, and his forces, would be deemed magic. I also don't believe Waswas is just simply whispers, but ways to impart us with beliefs from hidden forces of the dark one.  I believe this by experience of Quran, that there is for example, real locks on the hearts that keep people from reflection and seeing it's clear signs. I believe humanity on a large scale is afflicted by dark magic. I believe it can be annulled.  

I believe also people with mental illness are more susceptible to afflictions by Satanic forces. 

There is degrees of affliction.

That said, there is also obedient spirits, Angelic and friends of God, that help in the unseen. 

There is a way to ignite your inward sword of God, the sword of honor, and fight back. 

God allowed us to be afflicted so can awaken a will power that becomes real power in unseen, and makes us come closer to God.

At first it's hard to attack the Satanic forces back, specially, when we are practically dead in the graves due to them, but with a little effort, we can begin to ignite that light and power and skyward sword.

 

 

Salam. Thank you for your answer :) 

I have two questions. When you say satanic, do you mean iblees (azazel) by it? I thought anyone can be a shaytan, human animal and jinn. Anything evil is a shaytan. We all have a shaytan in us. Or at least that's what I thought was meant by 'the whispers of shaytan' - our own evil. Also, what exactly would your definition of magic be? 

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wa salam

I meant by that Iblis and his forces, from both Jinn and humans. They see us whence we don't see them. And they have means of inception, and other means to attack us. What our soul inclines to is bad, but the reality is, when people think they are valuing themselves above all else, they aren't, they are valuing a false identity created by Satanic forces.  Many people end up valuing a false identity linked to Satan thinking they were serving and valuing themselves. The true self is not known except through God.  

Edited by StrugglingForTheLight
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33 minutes ago, yusur317 said:

Also, what exactly would your definition of magic be? 

Any power or effect of that power not from the physical world that effects others. 

We all have magic potential I believe.  However some believers will develop his power under the guidance of God and his chosen ones.

As for Harut and Marut, the reason why God sent those two, was because humanity was not to learn from sources other then God.  And they were sent to teach people how to repel black magic and use it for good, and when magic was common practice, so God went out of his way to say come learn from me, and I will advise you in a way to put in good practice through Harut and Marut.

That is the issue. If you go to learn this from other then God, it will 99% path lead to developing a power beyond discipline and mixed with darkness and evil.

However if you develop the magic power of your soul with God and under guidance of his appointed guides....then you will develop it the right way and it will bring you closer to God.

That said no one has the right to say I am pious of master of the arts and will teach you, it has to be from a means God appointed himself.  This was the most important thing that Harut and Marut taught us, that God went of his way to show,  ok, I will even appoint two Angels among humanity, to send the message, you must learn it from my means in a time where people are learning it from many other people and it's leading them to disbelief and evil.

And no one can say "I've learned this form the Guide" and so "learn it from me"....no one has that right either.

It's not to be spread and taught on behalf of Imam. Rather Imam is the only way to approach this issue correctly.

 

 

Edited by StrugglingForTheLight
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10 hours ago, Gypsy said:

Magic doesnt exist, it's human imagination. Your mother has a mental and social behaviorly issues. Stop wasting your life believing something as silly as that. 

As for rat droppings, get a good rat poison and clean up your house. Nothing magical about that.

I don't appreicate the way you describe my mother. It's offensive and insulting. My mother doesn't have "issues". God is witness if you stood before me I may have just - :angry:. She is of healthy mind and body. She is strong enough to have tolerated and withstood coming from an abusive family, experiencing a war first hand (iraq-iran), forced emigration, the death of loved ones, living alone in foreign countries at a young age. She surpasses all expectations in ability and resilience. It literally took her sweat and blood to get herself where she is now and to ensure a bright future for myself and my brother (both medical students- alhamdulilah). She's a practicing A&E doctor in the UK and a full time mother to 3 children one of whom is severly disabled. And his disability, again, never stopped her from working and keeping us on the right track both islamically and career wise. My mother is a hero, my hero. I wouldn't be quick to dismiss her either. Clearly I'm not. May God forgive me if I ever were to be hubris. 

Have you even bothered reading the thread properly? Rat droppings? Where did I say that e_e ? 

I would advise you not to write responses to threads you haven't read properly and don't write at all if you're going to be rude.  

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17 hours ago, iCambrian said:

Consider this...

Lets say the evil eye is real. Now, i do not know much about it, but i saw you said that it "curses" people.

If someone could give another person an evil eye, and curse them....after hundreds of years, wouldnt organizations have learned how to master the practice of giving the evil eye? Would it not be projected on a giant tv screen and broadcasted in the countries of enemies by the media?

These dark magic things, if they were real, people would study them and learn how to manipulate and use them and it would likely be widely understood.  The same goes with magical healing.  It would be present in every hospital. Alchemy, it would be present in every laboratory. Pyromancy, it would be present in every....kitchen?  etc.

But instead, the more people question these things, the more they simply disappear.

Salam. 

I thorghouly enjoyed reading through your post. I actually like the idea of testing things. Begs the question, what form of "magic" did God forbid? 

But you could argue, there are many sciences that we have lost over the years. Technologies that we have lost. things that we thought people long ago wouldn't know of or wouldn't be able to do. 

It's not that I don't believe in magic but that I don't know what magic is. Is it something that breaks the laws that govern our universe (supernatural?), or is it simply the art of deception and mental manipulation? Did God send two angels to teach people the method behind card tricks or is it something darker than that? Then again, if you've managed to deceive people in believing the supernatural you can make them believe anything (e.g., take me as your God). Would that make con-artists magicians? 

 

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20 minutes ago, StrugglingForTheLight said:

Any power or effect of that power not from the physical world that effects others. 

We all have magic potential I believe.  However some believers will develop his power under the guidance of God and his chosen ones.

As for Harut and Marut, the reason why God sent those two, was because humanity was not to learn from sources other then God.  And they were sent to teach people how to repel black magic and use it for good, and when magic was common practice, so God went out of his way to say come learn from me, and I will advise you in a way to put in good practice through Harut and Marut.

That is the issue. If you go to learn this from other then God, it will 99% path lead to developing a power beyond discipline and mixed with darkness and evil.

However if you develop the magic power of your soul with God and under guidance of his appointed guides....then you will develop it the right way and it will bring you closer to God.

That said no one has the right to say I am pious of master of the arts and will teach you, it has to be from a means God appointed himself.  This was the most important thing that Harut and Marut taught us, that God went of his way to show,  ok, I will even appoint two Angels among humanity, to send the message, you must learn it from my means in a time where people are learning it from many other people and it's leading them to disbelief and evil.

And no one can say "I've learned this form the Guide" and so "learn it from me"....no one has that right either.

It's not to be spread and taught on behalf of Imam. Rather Imam is the only way to approach this issue correctly.

 

 

Salam, 

very much enjoyed reading your posts too. 

Didn't harut and marut warn people against magic before teaching them? As for your point regarding magic and what it means- do you have/remember sources I could refer to so I can have a read myself? 

Thank you :) 

:ws: 

 

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Peace and God's mercy and blessings upon you as well.

For example there is the following hadith from Imam Sadiq:

 

قال الصادق عليه السلام: وكان بعد نوح وقد كثر السحرة والمموّهون فبعث الله تعالى ملكين إلى نبي ذلك الزمان بذكر ما يسحر به السحرة وذكر ما يبطل به سحرهم ويرد به كيدهم فتلقاه النبي عن الملكين وأداه إلى عباد الله بأمر الله عز وجل وأمرهم أن يقفوا به على السحر وأن يبطلوه ونهاهم أن يسحروا به الناس وهذا كما يدل على السم ما هو وعلى ما يدفع به غائلة السم ثم يقال لمتعلم ذلك هذا السم فمن رأيته سم فادفع غائلته بكذا وكذا وإياك أن تقتل بالسم احداً

 

Basically it's saying that Magic was common so Allah [swt] sent two Angels to the Prophet of that time, reminding what is taught by their sorcery and what will annul their sorcery, so he taught the poison only to know the cure, and they taught people to annul magic and not use magic against people, to cure people and not poison people.

Basically they warned people not to use against people and for annulling magic only. To cure the poison and not use the poison.

So the warning of disbelief would be thinking you have the right to use the poison and using it.

 

Edited by StrugglingForTheLight
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3 hours ago, yusur317 said:

Salam. 

I thorghouly enjoyed reading through your post. I actually like the idea of testing things. Begs the question, what form of "magic" did God forbid? 

But you could argue, there are many sciences that we have lost over the years. Technologies that we have lost. things that we thought people long ago wouldn't know of or wouldn't be able to do. 

It's not that I don't believe in magic but that I don't know what magic is. Is it something that breaks the laws that govern our universe (supernatural?), or is it simply the art of deception and mental manipulation? Did God send two angels to teach people the method behind card tricks or is it something darker than that? Then again, if you've managed to deceive people in believing the supernatural you can make them believe anything (e.g., take me as your God). Would that make con-artists magicians? 

 

This is a question that I cannot answer, as I do not recognize scripture as a literal word by word from God. Rather scripture passed through flawed human minds before being written down. And as all humans are flawed, so too are our writings, unfortunately.

i view magic as something that isn't real, but that people from 2000 years ago, did believe and so they wrote about it.People today believe in it as well. 

no offense to you or anyone you know, and no offense to even my own family that...in some cases believes in these things, but some people just aren't....they aren't ah...intelligent? It's not that people are ignorant, but superstitions and false teachings can mislead people. We are all susceptible to this.

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