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Abul Hussain Hassani

Ghadir Khumm - The Sunni Opinion

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The Ghadeer Khumm Event – As Understood by Ahlelbayt, Sahaba & Ahlus-Sunnah

https://youpuncturedtheark.wordpress.com/2016/04/14/the-ghadeer-khumm-event-as-understood-by-ahlelbayt-sahaba-ahlus-sunnah/

One of the best articles I have read about Ghadeer Khum. This is how Sunnis understand the topic.

 

Edited by Abul Hussain Hassani

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...from Sunni sources, and only Sunni sources. How do you expect to convince Shias when you can't even quote from their books? Why should we care about how you understand the topic, and turn a blind eye to all our ahadith? These arguments are old, very repetitive, and utterly irrelevant when it comes to dialogue with Shias- we don't care what your narrators reported.

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For Sunnis, Mawla = Friend. Every Sunni scholar gives the same answer.

Funny how the word "Mawla" usually refers to a Master but when it comes to this narration, it quickly turns to a friend.

So, your perspective comes from your own Sunnis books? The same ones which contradict themselves on the same matter? The same ones you consider to be Sahih?

The website you shared, is one of those same websites which try to portray how much they love something more than anyone else, so everyone should just keep their eyes on it & believe nothing else.

Funny how you started with "As Understood by Ahlelbayt, Sahaba & Ahlus-Sunnah"

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The Sunni position can be refuted with just one aspect of the entire debate.

They claim : The hadith can equally mean friend or master.

Quote

 

The Scientific rule says:

الدليل إن تطرق إليه الإحتمال بطل به الإستدلال
Which means that if the proof that is used can be understood and explained in different ways then it is useless as an argument, because it is not explicit and clear.

 

Out of their own mouths they say that the prophet [saw] wasn't clear or explicit.

Really?

How can the hadith equally mean friend or master when the messenger of Allah only speaks with clarity? Are you telling us that he left you with an ambiguous last speech regarding one of the most important aspects of our religion, that is, what to do or believe when he passes away?

Quote

 

As for those who are familiar with the language of the Arabs they know for a fact the word Mawla and Muwalat are almost always used in two meanings: To talk about a person who is your servant OR to talk about an ally or beloved companion, close friend and supporter.

 

 

 

 

And as an Arab I'm telling you, you're wrong. As I said before, go to any Arab walking on the street and ask him what "moulana" or "maula" means he'll tell you sayyid because this is the primary meaning.

Post what I said above to your friends at twelve-nasibis.net and see what they come up with. 

This is the Arabic dictionary that uses both modern and early sources :

 

مَولى: ( اسم ) 
الجمع : مَوَالٍ ، مَوَالِي 
الْمَوْلَى : الْمَالِكُ ، السَّيِّدُ : خالقهم ورازقهم وباعثهم ومالكهم
مُولّى: ( اسم ) 
مُولّى : اسم المفعول من وَلَّى
مولى: ( اسم ) 
مولى : اسم المفعول من أَولَى
أَولَى: ( فعل ) 
أولى يُولي ، أوْلِ ، إيلاءً ، فهو مُولٍ ، والمفعول مولًى 
أَوْلاَهُ الْمَدِينَةَ : جَعَلَهُ وَالِياً عَلَيْهَا 
أوْلاَهُ ثِقَتَهُ : مَنَحَهُ إيَّاهَا وَضَعَهَا فِيهِ 
أَوْلاَهُ عَلَى أمْوَالِ اليَتِيمِ : أوْصَاهُ عَلَيْهَا 
أوْلاَهُ ظَهْرَهُ : صَدَّ عَنْهُ ، لَمْ يَلْتَفِتْ إلَيْهِ 
كَانَ الأَحْرَى أَنْ يُولِيهِ اهْتِمَاماً : أنْ يَهْتَمَّ بِهِ 
أَوْلاَهُ مَعْرُوفاً : صَنَعَ إِلَيْهِ 
أَوْلاَهُ لَكَ : كَلِمَةُ تَهْدِيدٍ وَوَعِيدٍ ، أَيِ الشَّرُّ أَقْرَبُ إِلَيْكَ فَاحْذَرْ 
أَوْلَى على اليتيم : أَوصَى 
أَوْلَى فلانًا الأَمرَ : جعله واليًا عليه 
ويقال في التهديد والوعيد : أَوْلَى لَكَ : قد وَلِيَكَ : أَي قارَبَكَ الشَّرُّ فاحذَرْ
وَلَّى: ( فعل ) 
ولَّى / ولَّى على / ولَّى عن يولِّي ، وَلِّ ، تَوْليةً ، فهو مُولٍّ ، والمفعول مُولًّى - للمتعدِّي 
ولَّى فلانٌ : أَدْبَر وفَرَّ 
وَلَّى الرُّطْبُ : أخذ في الهَيْج

The very first entry says : Sayid, owner.

Also the plural usually used for Mawla is mawali not "mawalaat."

Next for Awla

أَوْلَى: ( اسم ) 
الجمع : الأَوْلَوْن ، و الأَوَالِي المؤنث : الوُلْيا و الوُلْيَيات ، و الوُلَى ، مُثَنَّناه : الأَوْلَيان ، 
الأَوْلَى : أَفعل تفضيل بمعنى الأَحقِّ والأَجدرِ والأَقرب ، 
أولى لك : قاربك الشَّرُّ فاحذر

First entries are greater right or greater claim, most deserving, and closest. Closest however is contextual for example in the old phrase "awla lak" meaning some danger is near you so be careful. 

If I say in Arabic for example "Ana awla bil bayt minak," it means I have a greater right on the house than you. Or if I say in Arabic "ana awla bil awlaad mineek," it means Im telling my wife that I have a greater right on the kids than she does and not that I'm closer to them. If I say in Arabic "Ana awla bik min nafsak," it means I'm your master. It doesn't mean I'm closer to you than yourself, that doesn't even make sense!

 

Edited by Abu-Jafar Herz

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7 hours ago, Abul Hussain Hassani said:

The Ghadeer Khumm Event – As Understood by Ahlelbayt, Sahaba & Ahlus-Sunnah

https://youpuncturedtheark.wordpress.com/2016/04/14/the-ghadeer-khumm-event-as-understood-by-ahlelbayt-sahaba-ahlus-sunnah/

One of the best articles I have read about Ghadeer Khum. This is how Sunnis understand the topic.

 

One of the best MADE UP articles because you can't refute the shia ;) So what do you do? Say Quranic verses like tableegh didnt come on ghadeer khum LOOOOOOOOOL! and you say shia don't follow quran? :D hey buddy your scholar's from Azhar school can't stand up to a 7 year old shia..how can guys like you do ;) 

 

(IX) – The Verse of Tableegh(5:67) was NOT revealed on the day of Ghadeer.

 

 

^^^ LOOOOOOOL! WHy don't you tell us when the verses came down? 

Edited by Althaqalayn12

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Aside from what has been mentioned, the following things are more then clear to me.

It was coupled with the fact he is leaving us Quran and his family as two weighty important things.....this surely already has to do with his legacy of Prophethood.

Then the issue seems, what about Mohammad? What about his authority, his example? The Prophet says "Whoever I am Mawla of...." which shows how the Prophet is leaving his legacy of Authority and guidance and example,  "then this Ali is his Mawla". This explains why his Ahlulbayt are singled out alone side Quran as the two weighty things he is leaving us. 

He could of easily said believers are awliya of one another, and then said to take Ali as one of our Awliya. 

But singling out Ahlulbayt as the two weighty important things he is leaving us as a legacy, shows the Islam is to be found in Quran and Ahlulbayt [as] and that they are both authorities to be followed. 

Singling out Ali is obvious to me, that it's due to him being his immediate successor, but that his family has that position as well. 

In reality the thaqalain is about the 12 Imams. Fatima is part of Ahlulbayt but the hadith is about the 12 Imams because it has to do with the position of Wilayah of Mohammad over the people and the role of guidance he has. That is why he is emphasizing whoever takes me as a Master, then Ali is his Master.

Of course like the many verses of Quran and ahadith about Imam Ali, people want to always say it's unclear to justify their rebellion against the chosen Guides and the path of believers, the path of submission to God.

 

 

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12 hours ago, Abul Hussain Hassani said:

 

Audhu billahi min ash-shaitanir rajeem.

Bismillah, ar-Rahman, ar-Rahim

AsSalaamu Alaykum,

 

Allah[awj] appointed and the Prophet Muhammad[pbuhahp] announced a Successor?

 

If the answer is Yes; At this point, if there were two groups arguing the appointment of two different individuals. One would be on the Truth and the other would be a deviant group. Sin /Error/Mistake would fall on the Muslims who deviated, for disobeying the Command of Allah[awj] and his Prophet Muhammad[pbuhahp]. Naturally, the question of Authentic Tradition/Historic events with be in order.

Each group will offer Traditions, to prove their point. You would need to do Technical Analysis to determine based on the validity/Authenticity of the Traditions to determine who has a stronger case.

 

In the event, where people do not even, acknowledge that a Successor was announced. Why are people interested in the technical analysis. Is it to prove that the other side is wrong.

 

Fine, offer alternative? If no alternative is to be offered. Conclusion is that no one  was announced, and no method left by the Prophet Muhammad[pbuhahp] to  select a Leader after him.

 

Recorded Historical evidence, few at Saqifa gathering selected the Leader after the Prophet[pbuhahp]. He in turn, appointed his successor , and he in turn left it for a group of selected six to determine the next leader.

 

Meaning Muslims were left without guidance by Allah[awj] and his Prophet Muhammad[pbuhahp].

 

Which defies the purpose/Concept of Divine Guidance as per the Qur’an and objective/rational/logical reasoning, and Intellect. Actually, argues for No Divine entity.

 

You might say, what is this has to do with this article, Everything. Because we are working with a wrong premise/Concept.

 

WS

Layman.

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On 4/25/2016 at 0:18 AM, Abul Hussain Hassani said:

The Ghadeer Khumm Event – As Understood by Ahlelbayt, Sahaba & Ahlus-Sunnah

https://youpuncturedtheark.wordpress.com/2016/04/14/the-ghadeer-khumm-event-as-understood-by-ahlelbayt-sahaba-ahlus-sunnah/

One of the best articles I have read about Ghadeer Khum. This is how Sunnis understand the topic.

 

Abul Hussain Hassani,

   I find it funny how people from the era when this command was spoken of did not find the word Moula ambiguous but today's e-scholars are so much wiser than that generation that they refute Prophet's commands as an ambiguous statement. So much to save a few bunch of usurpers. MashaAllah!

 

As I have told you before, Ghadeer Khum is so far down the Islamic History. If you want to understand the concept of succession then start off by reading the first time Islam was proclaimed to his family i.e. Feast of Dhul-Ashira. Have you read about the feast of Dhul-Ashira? Do you know what happened during this event?

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15 hours ago, yam_110 said:

Abul Hussain Hassani,

   I find it funny how people from the era when this command was spoken of did not find the word Moula ambiguous but today's e-scholars are so much wiser than that generation that they refute Prophet's commands as an ambiguous statement. So much to save a few bunch of usurpers. MashaAllah!

 

As I have told you before, Ghadeer Khum is so far down the Islamic History. If you want to understand the concept of succession then start off by reading the first time Islam was proclaimed to his family i.e. Feast of Dhul-Ashira. Have you read about the feast of Dhul-Ashira? Do you know what happened during this event?

what scholars..they don't have scholars, only so called shiekhs who drink 50 pills of fish oil to make their beards bigger and say their opinions :D

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14 minutes ago, Althaqalayn12 said:

what scholars..they don't have scholars, only so called shiekhs who drink 50 pills of fish oil to make their beards bigger and say their opinions :D

That's why I discuss only on the net because I have no beard. If they knew they wouldn't consider me qualified to have a discussion with.

Edited by Faruk

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If we want to know the right interpretation and context of the word 'Mawla' then I think it is wise to take heed to the previous lines of the hadith as well. 

 

Edited by Faruk

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Salamun Alaykum

When we read the Quran we find the meaning of the word ‘Wali’ & ‘Mawla as following which has been derived From the same root wāw lām yā.

Wali is the one who  lead to the right path(When used with Allah and His Messenger)  and the one who lead astray(when used with Shaitan, Disbelievers ,people of the book etc)

Allah is Wali of Believers

Allah is the Wali of those who believe. He brings them out of the darkness into the light; and (as to) those who disbelieve, their Awliya are Taghut who take them out of the light into the darkness; they are the inmates of the fire, in it they shall abide.2:257

Shaitan is Wali of Disbelievers

And most certainly I will lead them astray and excite in them vain desires, and bid them so that they shall slit the ears of the cattle, and most certainly I will bid them so that they shall alter Allah's creation; and whoever takes the Shaitan as a Wali  rather than Allah he indeed shall suffer a manifest loss.4:119

Aduwwan is used opposite of Waliyyan in quran

The enemy is what opposes the wali

Surely the Shaitan is your enemy(Aaduwwun), so take him for an enemy(Aaduwwan); he only invites his party that they may be inmates of the burning fire. 35:6

Have you not considered those to whom a portion of the Book has been given? They buy error and desire that you should go astray from the way.4:44

And Allah best knows your enemies(AAdaikum); and Allah suffices as a wali, and Allah suffices as a Helper.4:45

Messenger of Allah(saw) is Wali of Believers

Only Allah is your Wali and His Messenger and those who believe, those who keep up prayers and pay the poor-rate while they bow. 5.55

And whoever takes Allah and His messenger and those who believe as a Wali, then surely the party of Allah are they that shall be triumphant.5:56

 those who keep up prayers and pay the poor-rate while they bow are Wali of Believers

 For any whom Allah leaves astray, there is no Wali thereafter…..42:44

 but he whom Allah leaves to stray you shall not find for him Wali to lead him to the Right Way.18:17

And among men there is he who disputes about Allah without knowledge and follows every rebellious Shaitan; 22:3

Against him it is written down that whoever takes him as a Wali (tawallahu), he shall lead him astray and conduct him to the chastisement of the burning fire.22:4

O you who believe! if you obey those who disbelieve they will turn you back upon your heels, so you will turn back losers. 3:149

 Nay! Allah is your Mawla and He is the best of the helpers.3:50

Above verse says that Allah is our Mawla so he is to be obeyed so that he  guide us to the right path.

Whoever obeys the Rasul, he indeed obeys Allah, and whoever turns back, so We have not sent you as a keeper over them (4:80).

That means Messenger of Allah is our Mawla whose obedience guide us  to the right path

An Messenger who recites to you the clear communications of Allah so that he may bring forth those who believe and do good deeds from darkness into light; and whoever believes in Allah and does good deeds, He will cause him to enter gardens beneath which rivers now, to abide therein forever, Allah has indeed given him a goodly sustenance. 65:11

Say: Obey Allah and obey the Messenger; but if you turn back, then on him rests that which is imposed on him and on you rests that which is imposed on you; and if you obey him, you are on the right way; and nothing rests on the Messenger but clear delivering (of the message).24:54

Now from the above discussion it is easy to understand the following Hadith of the Prophet(saw) said at Ghadeer  Khumm.Prophet(saw) was neither worldly leader nor worldy ruler over the people but He was Wali & Mawla of The Believers  that’s why he said

Man Kuntu Mawlaahu Fa`Aliyun Mawlaahu, Allahumma Waali man Waalaah wa `Aadi man `Aadaah.

 

 

 

Edited by elite
alignment

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