The Quranic view on dialogue with others

[beardedbaker]

 

[colargol]

I just saw the full interview today. The best interview i have seen in some time, on the subject of differences between muslims, and actually beyond that, among people in general, and more. Powerful taddabur of the Quran.

One goes for a cup of water from Sayyid al Haydari, and soon after, find themselves swimming in an ocean of knowledge. May Allah preserve him for us. 

Edited April 17, 2016 by colargol

[StrugglingForTheLight]

Salam

I think the verse is stating, that they both have the book, in which there is a guidance and has the solution to the issue of guidance as they all point to Wilayah of Allah through his chosen ones, but Quran itself says:

قُلْ يَا أَهْلَ الْكِتَابِ لَسْتُمْ عَلَىٰ شَيْءٍ حَتَّىٰ تُقِيمُوا التَّوْرَاةَ وَالْإِنْجِيلَ وَمَا أُنْزِلَ إِلَيْكُمْ مِنْ رَبِّكُمْ ۗ وَلَيَزِيدَنَّ كَثِيرًا مِنْهُمْ مَا أُنْزِلَ إِلَيْكَ مِنْ رَبِّكَ طُغْيَانًا وَكُفْرًا ۖ فَلَا تَأْسَ عَلَى الْقَوْمِ الْكَافِرِينَ {68}

[Shakir 5:68] Say: O followers of the Book! you follow no good till you keep up the Taurat and the Injeel and that which is revealed to you from your Lord; and surely that which has been revealed to you from your Lord shall make many of them increase in inordinacy and unbelief; grieve not therefore for the unbelieving people.
[Pickthal 5:68] Say O People of the Scripture! Ye have naught (of guidance) till ye observe the Torah and the Gospel and that which was revealed unto you from your Lord. That which is revealed unto thee (Muhammad) from thy Lord is certain to increase the contumacy and disbelief of many of them. But grieve not for the disbelieving folk.
[Yusufali 5:68] Say: "O People of the Book! ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord." It is the revelation that cometh to thee from thy Lord, that increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. But sorrow thou not over (these) people without Faith.

 

This verse also comes after 5:67, which we know is about Ghadeer.

So if we combine the verses together, one is saying they both accuse each other of not being on anything, while they both have guidance to find the truth. 

And it also shows Christians and Jews accused of each other of not being on anything, and people who are ignorant accuse each other of that but the accusation is done out of ignorance, but the Quran then does say they are not upon anything.

To be honest, I appreciate the thinking of this scholar, but all verses on the subject should be put in mind.

He said everyone who says such a thing is ignorant, but then Allah himself says it, and the Prophets says in on his behalf, so is God and his Prophet ignorant? They both say the people of the book are upon nothing until they keep up the Tawrat and Injeel and what has been revealed from God.

Regarding the line "and what has been revealed to you from your Lord" it is reported Imam Baqir said "The Wilayah of Ameeral Momineen".

And this is verified by Quran (42:23, 25:57).

So both statements have it's place. The Quran talks about how people claiming to worship God were worshiping the Taghut and made the standard by which believers are known to be the Wilayah of Ali and the Imams from his successors. And that even needs sincerity such that we don't associate in their obedience and leadership others.

 

 

[colargol]

@StrugglingForTheLight

The Quran can say that brother, because of Allah's S.W.T. absolute Knowledge and Truth, whereas we don't have such attributes to be able to make such a statement to others. The statement is done out of ignorance on the part of man, but out of absolute knowledge and truth on the part of Allah S.W.T. 

 

[StrugglingForTheLight]

1 hour ago, colargol said:

@StrugglingForTheLight

The Quran can say that brother, because of Allah's S.W.T. absolute Knowledge and Truth, whereas we don't have such attributes to be able to make such a statement to others. The statement is done out of ignorance on the part of man, but out of absolute knowledge and truth on the part of Allah S.W.T. 

 

Salam

Well we can have knowledge from the point of view of what Allah, his Messengers, and Imams have taught us.

Like I said it's true ignorant people all accuse each other on being upon nothing while they have a book with the name of God taught in it and calling to the guidance, but it's also true that when people ignore the book and what it teaches and don't submit to God, they are upon nothing.

In this case, "whoever doesn't know his Leader, dies the death of ignorance" is a well known hadith in both Sunni and Shia sources.

This is confirmed in Quran. The Quran talks about how only those who possess understanding true remember what the Quran is calling to. That no doubt is the believers in Wilayah of Ali, and the lovers of the family of Mohammad.

That said, while it's true, people make the statement out of ignorance, there is people who make the statement out of knowledge.

 

 

[StrugglingForTheLight]

1 hour ago, colargol said:

@StrugglingForTheLight

The Quran can say that brother, because of Allah's S.W.T. absolute Knowledge and Truth, whereas we don't have such attributes to be able to make such a statement to others. The statement is done out of ignorance on the part of man, but out of absolute knowledge and truth on the part of Allah S.W.T. 

 

Salam

Well we can have knowledge from the point of view of what Allah, his Messengers, and Imams have taught us.

Like I said it's true ignorant people all accuse each other on being upon nothing while they have a book with the name of God taught in it and calling to the guidance, but it's also true that when people ignore the book and what it teaches and don't submit to God, they are upon nothing.

In this case, "whoever doesn't know his Leader, dies the death of ignorance" is a well known hadith in both Sunni and Shia sources.

This is confirmed in Quran. The Quran talks about how only those who possess understanding true remember what the Quran is calling to. That no doubt is the believers in Wilayah of Ali, and the lovers of the family of Mohammad.

That said, while it's true, people make the statement out of ignorance, there is people who make the statement out of knowledge.