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In the Name of God بسم الله

"If there were a Prophet after me verily it would be `Umar."

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On ‎4‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 4:26 PM, LabaikYaHussein said:

Brother watch what you say there is no such thing as over exaggerating love for Imam Hussein (as) the more intense love you have the better 

Watch what you say??? Seriously. This should in no case be the tone of someone who is following such love spreading Icons. Peace.

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Prophet Muhammad (pbuh&hf) was the  seal of all Prophets. This is unanimous belief of all the Muslims excluding Ammydhias. Therefore, hadith is clearly a fabrication!

I accept widely transmitted narration in shia & sunni about Imam Ali(as). But Now check out the  statements which narrations are saying If there would be any after me that would b

To believe that hadith  that Umar would of been a Prophet, not with standing excuses for the transgressors people like to make, is disbelief in the station of the Prophets, their nobleness, and high s

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I went through a few posts of this site and was forced by my nature to say something.

If we just had the slightest idea of how much other religions ENJOY this '' So Called " authentic argument to be authentic ( Lolz ) ..

6 minutes ago, ServantOfTheOne said:

Salam @Muhammad Rameez 

What makes you think @LabaikYaHussein's statement was a threat rather than cautionary advice?

The difference sorry to say is not recognizable in the statement.  

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9 hours ago, MOHAMMAD MOHD said:

Were they similarly appreciated by prophet that they(Imam ali(as)& abubakr )also would be prophet if there were to be other prophets.????

My dear, please quote that similar hadith for me.I may not be knowing

Then we may come back to your leadership point.

wssalam

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:
Sa'd b. Abi Waqqas reported that Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) left 'Ali b. Abi Talib behind him (as he proceeded) to the expedition of Tabuk, whereupon he ('Ali) said: Allah's Messenger, are you leaving me behind amongst women and children? Thereupon he (the Holy Prophet) said: Aren't you satisfied with being unto me what Aaron was unto Moses but with this exception that there would be no prophet after me?
[Sahih al-Muslim]

Ikramah bin Ammar reports from Iyas from Salamah ibn Al-Ikawa that the Messenger of Allah (may Allah bestow peace and blessings upon him) said, “Abu Bakr is the best of my nation after me, except if there would be a prophet.” [Al-Tabarani in Al-Kabir, all the narrators are Thiqaat].

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The companions of the prophet were unaware of the hadith that the prophet could be Umar after Muhammad saww. as no one quoted this hadith at Saqifa for  Umar to become a caliph. thus It is acceptable that  it did not exist at that time. 

So it is fabricated or Mudu..

 

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17 hours ago, Ibn Matta said:

That is by far the most irrational criticism of this Hadith I have ever seen. Shocking. If in this context so obviously does not refer to uncertainty. It is obviously a conditional. I really hope English is not your first language because that us genuinley shocking 

So, Allah ((swt) could've of given Prophethood to a person who descendants had no connection with divinity, and to a person who had abandoned Rasulillah (pbuh&hf) at a battlefield fearing for his own safety! Furthermore, Allah swt had reprimanded this so called Prophet who had leg it,  and yet Allah swt would have granted him Prophethood to umar  who was capable deserting messenger Allah swt numerous times! You are not just mocking Rasulillah you are mocking Allah swt! You clearly lack the basic understanding of irrationality....

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I accept widely transmitted narration in shia & sunni about Imam Ali(as).

But

Now check out the  statements which narrations are saying

1 hour ago, aansoogas said:

Abu Bakr is the best of my nation after me, except if there would be a prophet.

If there would be any after me that would be abu bakr  (as he is best)

On 4/11/2016 at 2:08 PM, Talut said:

If there were a Prophet after me verily it would be `Umar.

If there would be any after me verily that would be umar.

 

1 hour ago, aansoogas said:

Aren't you satisfied with being unto me what Aaron was unto Moses but with this exception that there would be no prophet after me?

If there would be any after me that would be Ali(as).  (as Aaron was just after Moses(as).

Once Prophet told that Abu bakr is the best so now infallible Prophet declared clearly for abubakr but at another time infallible prophet told verily it would be umar and at another time by giving the example of Aaron prophet is saying Ali(as) it would be you.

Was Prophet contradicting or 2 narrations are fabricated?

Thatswhy i was asking if sm1 has quality that he could have been a prophet after our prophet(s) then he must be the leader as for us it was imam ali(as) and he is our leader.

But for u there are more than 1.

wssslam

Edited by MOHAMMAD MOHD
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15 hours ago, Talut said:

I'm not interested in technical hadith science issues concerning isnad.

I am looking for the logic in this hadith which is not in concordance with the Quran.

But ... If isnad is the only thing that matters to you and not the content than you're free to leave the thread or start your own. 

This hadith is easy to find on sunni websites and many times used in defence of Umar so I will not divert my topic and start with the ABC-game.



 

Akhi like I said if you have nothing to comment on the Sanad then using an objective approach to criticise Ahadith is pure conjecture. That is just the Islamic method regarding criticism of Ahadith. The Hadith itself is perfectly logical, there just isn't a need to dissect such a short Hadith that's relatively simple and authenticated.

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19 hours ago, MOHAMMAD MOHD said:

lolzz......If umar was like a Prophet then why abu bakr usurped caliphate when someone like umar was still alive?

That lolzz and long ellipsis and bold writing really added power and evidence for what you're saying... Not

Where did I or the Hadith say 'Umar is like a Prophet hmmmmm... Nowhere

Abu Bakr did not usurp the Khilaafah because the Muslims were told to stick to him after he died in Jami' at-Tirmidhi 3663

Why was Abu Bakr chosen instead of 'Umar? Because Abu Bakr was widely regarded as more virtuous as proved by 'Umar asking people to vote for Abu Bakr instead of him in the Shura

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The Messenger (s.a.w) knew that he was the last/final/seal of the Prophet(s). So, this narration is fabricated. Sunnis and Shi'a, Come on. Don't use your fabricated narrations to always prove a point. Come back to the Qur'an which actually mentions no Sahaba, Ali or your 12, 14, 16 Imams by name - their names don't exist :hahaha:, Perhaps, Allah the Exalted forgot (Astaghfirullah). I'm still looking for Hasan and Husayn in the Qur'an :hahaha:. You can continue to twist the verse of God for your own doctrines and theology.  

Edited by IjazLinorAhmad
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2 hours ago, MOHAMMAD MOHD said:

I accept widely transmitted narration in shia & sunni about Imam Ali(as).

But

Now check out the  statements which narrations are saying

If there would be any after me that would be abu bakr  (as he is best)

If there would be any after me verily that would be umar.

 

If there would be any after me that would be Ali(as).  (as Aaron was just after Moses(as).

Once Prophet told that Abu bakr is the best so now infallible Prophet declared clearly for abubakr but at another time infallible prophet told verily it would be umar and at another time by giving the example of Aaron prophet is saying Ali(as) it would be you.

Was Prophet contradicting or 2 narrations are fabricated?

Thatswhy i was asking if sm1 has quality that he could have been a prophet after our prophet(s) then he must be the leader as for us it was imam ali(as) and he is our leader.

But for u there are more than 1.

wssslam

It is not contradicting at all but you just need to reconcile.

Is it necessary that there always has to be one prophet at a time?

Although Prophet Muhammad (saw) came alone as the last prophet. Yet there were prophets who lived together in a community and if the office of prophethood had not closed with Muhammad (saw) then each of these individuals would have been good enough as per the narrations to be a prophet.

on numerous occasions we find in ahadith that prophet (saw) talked about a particular deed and then said that anyone doing that deed is guaranteed to enter into paradise like on one place he talks about taking care of daughter and on another place about taking care of your chastity.

would one say that this is contradictory bcos earlier on the prophet (saw) guaranteed Jannah on a different deed?
Then, he also talked about other such acts would surely enter one into hell fire even if that person be doing the good deeds as mentioned above. So would it be contradictory again? No as we would reconcile like we will say that the person in question should first give Shahada and then not reject clear commandments of Allah and do such deed then surely Allah will enter him into paradise.

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6 hours ago, aansoogas said:

It is not contradicting at all but you just need to reconcile.

Is it necessary that there always has to be one prophet at a time?

Although Prophet Muhammad (saw) came alone as the last prophet. Yet there were prophets who lived together in a community and if the office of prophethood had not closed with Muhammad (saw) then each of these individuals would have been good enough as per the narrations to be a prophet.

on numerous occasions we find in ahadith that prophet (saw) talked about a particular deed and then said that anyone doing that deed is guaranteed to enter into paradise like on one place he talks about taking care of daughter and on another place about taking care of your chastity.

would one say that this is contradictory bcos earlier on the prophet (saw) guaranteed Jannah on a different deed?
Then, he also talked about other such acts would surely enter one into hell fire even if that person be doing the good deeds as mentioned above. So would it be contradictory again? No as we would reconcile like we will say that the person in question should first give Shahada and then not reject clear commandments of Allah and do such deed then surely Allah will enter him into paradise.

what you just said is correct that many narration regarding same thing dose'nt mean they r contradictory  but you missed that point which i wanted to say due to which i said it as fabricated.

let's talk same thing in another way to make point clear,

Do you think the one who has ability to become prophet just after our prophet(saw) is best one in ummah?

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9 hours ago, MOHAMMAD MOHD said:

let's talk same thing in another way to make point clear,

Do you think the one who has ability to become prophet just after our prophet(saw) is best one in ummah?

As none can become a prophet... if a person alone has been deemed good enough then most likely, the answer is yes. If more people have been deemed good enough... then they all should be superior to others in ummah and one of them should be superior to the others.

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Throughout his caliphate, Umar asked for Islamic guidance from Imam Ali and he also introduced innovations to the deen. Is this the type of person who is qualified to be a prophet?

Did the prophet require Islamic guidance from anyone? During Imam Ali's caliphate, did he require Islamic guidance from anyone?

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2 hours ago, aansoogas said:

As none can become a prophet... if a person alone has been deemed good enough then most likely, the answer is yes. If more people have been deemed good enough... then they all should be superior to others in ummah and one of them should be superior to the others.

Though your 2nd part is debatable but i agree and needed your first part of answer.

 

22 hours ago, aansoogas said:

(the Holy Prophet) said: Aren't you satisfied with being unto me what Aaron was unto Moses but with this exception that there would be no prophet after me?

Do you agree Prophet Moses(as) asked God to appoint Aaron as his vizer as per quran,Do you agree Prophet Moses(as) asked for the best one from God?

Wssalam

Edited by MOHAMMAD MOHD
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2 hours ago, ServantOfTheOne said:

Throughout his caliphate, Umar asked for Islamic guidance from Imam Ali and he also introduced innovations to the deen. Is this the type of person who is qualified to be a prophet?

Did the prophet require Islamic guidance from anyone? During Imam Ali's caliphate, did he require Islamic guidance from anyone?

No?!

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1 hour ago, MOHAMMAD MOHD said:

Do you agree Prophet Moses(as) asked God to appoint Aaron as his vizer as per quran,Do you agree Prophet Moses(as) asked for the best one from God?

Wssalam

As far as i know, Musa (as) did appoint Haroon (as) as his vizier before leaving for mount Sinai for the next couple of weeks. I don't remember if he specifically requested or asked Allah to appoint Aaron or not. Can you share the ayah please?

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8 hours ago, aansoogas said:

As far as i know, Musa (as) did appoint Haroon (as) as his vizier before leaving for mount Sinai for the next couple of weeks. I don't remember if he specifically requested or asked Allah to appoint Aaron or not. Can you share the ayah please?

“And indeed We gave Musa the Book and We did appoint with him Harun as an Apostle and his Vizier” (25:35).

“Musa said: O Allah! Assign me a Vizier from my family, (that is) my brother Harun. Add to my strength through him, and make him share my task: that we may celebrate thy praise without stint… (Allah) said: “We granted your requests, O Musa” (20:29-36)

“And granted we unto him out of our mercy his brother Haroon”
(The Qur’an 19:53)

10 hours ago, MOHAMMAD MOHD said:

Do you agree Prophet Moses(as) asked God to appoint Aaron as his vizer as per quran,Do you agree Prophet Moses(as) asked for the best one from God?

Wssalam

 

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On 13/04/2016 at 9:22 PM, IjazLinorAhmad said:

The Messenger (s.a.w) knew that he was the last/final/seal of the Prophet(s). So, this narration is fabricated. Sunnis and Shi'a, Come on. Don't use your fabricated narrations to always prove a point. Come back to the Qur'an which actually mentions no Sahaba, Ali or your 12, 14, 16 Imams by name - their names don't exist :hahaha:, Perhaps, Allah the Exalted forgot (Astaghfirullah). I'm still looking for Hasan and Husayn in the Qur'an :hahaha:. You can continue to twist the verse of God for your own doctrines and theology.  

Tell me... If the "12, 14, 16 imams" were called abu bakr, umar, uthman, muawiyah (la), yazeed(la) etc. would you have mocked the way you are mocking in your post. Thank you for demonstrating your love for our Prophet (p) and his Ahlul Bayt (p). Is there any point in attempting to remind you of the verse of tat-heer and the verse of mawadda from the Quran? I fear doing so in case you start mocking the Quran. Do you know what tafseer means? Of course you do but as long as these verses clearly refer to Ahlul bayt (p) you will always consider it "twist the verse of God".

 

On 13/04/2016 at 8:59 PM, Ibn Matta said:

Akhi like I said if you have nothing to comment on the Sanad then using an objective approach to criticise Ahadith is pure conjecture. That is just the Islamic method regarding criticism of Ahadith. The Hadith itself is perfectly logical, there just isn't a need to dissect such a short Hadith that's relatively simple and authenticated.

Yes but we are drawing our conclusions from Umar's track record of behaviour. His track record demonstrates that he was not worthy being a Khalifah let alone a potential prophet. Were Abu bakr, Umar and Uthman muslims, yes of course they were. Were they the best Muslims and the best companions, that is debatable and we maintain that there were other companions better than them the foremost being Imam Ali (as).

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"

Second Tradition

The Messenger of Allah (S) was leaving for (the Battle of) Tabuk and left ‘Ali (as) behind as his successor. So, ‘Ali (as) said: Are you leaving me behind with women and children? The Prophet (S) answered: Are you not pleased that you are to me like Harun was to Musa except there is no prophet after me.47

This tradition is unanimously accepted by both Shi’ites and Sunnis. The compilers of Sihah48 and authenticMasanid49 (tradition) Sunni books have transmitted it. Many of their great scholars have claimed consensus over its authenticity, for they state that this tradition is unanimously accepted as authentic.

The pioneers of great memorisers have transmitted it, like Abu ‘Abd Allah al-Bukhari in his Sahih, Muslim ibn al-Hajjaj in his Sahih, Abu Dawud in his Sunan, Abu ‘Isa al-Tirmidhi in his Jami’, Abu ‘Abd al-Rahman al-Nisa’i in his Sunan and Ibn Majah al-Qazwini in his Sunan. All of them have unanimously accepted this tradition as authentic and have consensus over it. Al-Hakim al-Naysaburi has said: This tradition has reached the level of continuous transmission [tawatur].50

The commonality of the word ‘status’ in this blessed tradition denotes that every status that is proven for Harun from Musa is also proven for ‘Ali (as) from the Prophet (S), with the only exception of prophethood. This similarity is emphasised.

Allah, the Exalted, has said about the relationship of Harun with Musa (as):

And give to me an aider from my family: Harun, my brother, strengthen my back by him, and associate him (with me) in my affair.51 Musa said to his brother Harun: Take my place among my people, and act well and do not follow the way of the mischief-makers.52

This status can be summarised in a number of places "

http://www.al-islam.org/principles-faith-usul-al-din-husayn-vahid-khorasani/divine-leadership-imamat#second-tradition

*****

 

Ayatullah al-’Udhma Shaykh Husayn Vahid Khorasani provided further details of the number of places [Vicegerency/Brotherhood/Assistance/Restoration/Command Sharing/Succession]

here:

http://www.al-islam.org/principles-faith-usul-al-din-husayn-vahid-khorasani/divine-leadership-imamat#first-vicegerency

http://www.al-islam.org/principles-faith-usul-al-din-husayn-vahid-khorasani/divine-leadership-imamat#second-brotherhood

http://www.al-islam.org/principles-faith-usul-al-din-husayn-vahid-khorasani/divine-leadership-imamat#third-assistance

http://www.al-islam.org/principles-faith-usul-al-din-husayn-vahid-khorasani/divine-leadership-imamat#fourth-restoration

http://www.al-islam.org/principles-faith-usul-al-din-husayn-vahid-khorasani/divine-leadership-imamat#fifth-sharing-command

http://www.al-islam.org/principles-faith-usul-al-din-husayn-vahid-khorasani/divine-leadership-imamat#sixth-succession

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16 hours ago, MOHAMMAD MOHD said:

Do you agree Prophet Moses(as) asked God to appoint Aaron as his vizer as per quran,Do you agree Prophet Moses(as) asked for the best one from God?

Wssalam

Thanks for sharing the ayahs. yes, he should be the second to Moses (as) [unless there was present another prophet around, who was also higher in status]. But I don't think that any other prophet was present around during that time. Ayub, Yusuf, Shamil (asa) were not present, i believe. Although Joshua (as) (if he was a prophet) was there during the lifetime of Moses and subsequently became his successor as well.

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7 hours ago, aansoogas said:

Thanks for sharing the ayahs. yes, he should be the second to Moses (as) [unless there was present another prophet around, who was also higher in status]. But I don't think that any other prophet was present around during that time. Ayub, Yusuf, Shamil (asa) were not present, i believe. Although Joshua (as) (if he was a prophet) was there during the lifetime of Moses and subsequently became his successor as well.

Ok. Tradition of prophet is comparing Ali(as) to Harun.

So Do you say Imam Ali(as) was the best one after prophet ?as you said Harun(as) should be second to Moses and you mentioned this hadith also.

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12 hours ago, jaguar_knight said:

Tell me... If the "12, 14, 16 imams" were called abu bakr, umar, uthman, muawiyah (la), yazeed(la) etc. would you have mocked the way you are mocking in your post. Thank you for demonstrating your love for our Prophet (p) and his Ahlul Bayt (p). Is there any point in attempting to remind you of the verse of tat-heer and the verse of mawadda from the Quran? I fear doing so in case you start mocking the Quran. Do you know what tafseer means? Of course you do but as long as these verses clearly refer to Ahlul bayt (p) you will always consider it "twist the verse of God".

 

Yes but we are drawing our conclusions from Umar's track record of behaviour. His track record demonstrates that he was not worthy being a Khalifah let alone a potential prophet. Were Abu bakr, Umar and Uthman muslims, yes of course they were. Were they the best Muslims and the best companions, that is debatable and we maintain that there were other companions better than them the foremost being Imam Ali (as).

Are you a fool? Can you read? From where did you get the idea that I'm a Sunni? Or love Abu Bakr and other companions? Did I know them? Do I know their personal life? No! I only love the Messengers of God mentioned in the Qur'an!!!!!!!!!! 

My comment:

The Messenger (s.a.w) knew that he was the last/final/seal of the Prophet(s). So, this narration is fabricated. Sunnis and Shi'a, Come on. Don't use your fabricated narrations to always prove a point. Come back to the Qur'an which actually mentions no Sahaba, Ali or your 12, 14, 16 Imams by name - their names don't exist :hahaha:, Perhaps, Allah the Exalted forgot (Astaghfirullah). I'm still looking for Hasan and Husayn in the Qur'an :hahaha:. You can continue to twist the verse of God for your own doctrines and theology.  

My remarks were not towards the "imams" alone. 

You said:

Quote

"Do you know what tafseer means?"


Yes, I know and the sectarians (Sunnis and Shi'a) can explain the verses however they want, in fact you and they can also assert that verily we do find the names of Ali and Abu Bakr and so forth in the Qur'an, even if we can't actually find their names therein - We can still write our own tafsirs and claim that these names were deleted by the opposition. 

For an example, Sunnis claim and write in their tafsirs that Abu Bakr was in the cave with the Prophet (s.a.w) for three days. However, what do we find in the Qur'an? 

009:040 (Part) 
"If you help him not, certainly God helped him when those who disbelieved drove him out, the second of two; when they two were in the cave, when he said to his companion (Arabic: Sahibi)..."

No name is given by Allah (s.w.t), after this, everything is just speculations made by the shi'a and sunnis. You people can write 1000 tafsirs, yet tafsirs will never override the Qur'an. It will never override the words of Allah (s.w.t). The name is not mentioned in 9;40 and neither do we find Ali anywhere in the Qur'an. Furthermore, some Shi'a exegetes claimed that the Qur'an was corrupted, the name of Ali was deleted. Many Shi'a scholars claim this, want me to quote it here for ya? 

Wa as-salaam! 

Edited by IjazLinorAhmad
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8 minutes ago, MOHAMMAD MOHD said:

Ok. Tradition of prophet is comparing Ali(as) to Harun.

So Do you say Imam Ali(as) was the best one after prophet ?as you said Harun(as) should be second to Moses and you mentioned this hadith also.

The similarity between the two is that like Musa (as) left his brother to look after his people while he himself went to mount Sinai for some time, Prophet Muhammad (saw) left his cousin to look after his people while Muhammad (saw) left for Battle of Tabuk. I said that Harun (as) should be second to Moses (as) as i don't know of any other prophets present at that time and not for the reason that he was on a certain occasion made minister. "Ali was Ali"... may Allah shower his blessings and mercy upon one of his best men. We can never praise our mola enough and can never count his manaqib enough. It just gives us so much inner peace thinking about him and it gives us guidance knowing about him. He is our guide and our hero. He is the brother of our beloved Prophet (saw) and husband and father of the best ones. as i said that words can never do justice and we know he did his best in the cause of Allah and his Rasool (saw).

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Quote

No name is given by Allah (s.w.t), after this, everything is just speculations made by the shi'a and sunnis. You people can write 1000 tafsirs, yet tafsirs will never override the Qur'an. It will never override the words of Allah (s.w.t).

If Allah (swt) doesn't want to mention the name, then He don't. It does not mean that the conclusion is a speculations of who is the sahibi in cave with Prophet. We have historical proof and traditions and everyone expect Quranist accept he was Abu Bakr. And rarely one take the interpretation of  what Quranist say with the matters of Quran verses.

Quote

Many Shi'a scholars claim this, want me to quote it here for ya? 

Lol go for it and give the original sources with Arabic text too.

Edited by Dhulfikar
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2 hours ago, aansoogas said:

The similarity between the two is that like Musa (as) left his brother to look after his people while he himself went to mount Sinai for some time, Prophet Muhammad (saw) left his cousin to look after his people while Muhammad (saw) left for Battle of Tabuk. I said that Harun (as) should be second to Moses (as) as i don't know of any other prophets present at that time and not for the reason that he was on a certain occasion made minister. "Ali was Ali"... may Allah shower his blessings and mercy upon one of his best men. We can never praise our mola enough and can never count his manaqib enough. It just gives us so much inner peace thinking about him and it gives us guidance knowing about him. He is our guide and our hero. He is the brother of our beloved Prophet (saw) and husband and father of the best ones. as i said that words can never do justice and we know he did his best in the cause of Allah and his Rasool (saw).

Brother please be to the point only.

Do you say Imam Ali(as) was the best one after prophet ? Yes or No

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10 hours ago, IjazLinorAhmad said:

Are you a fool? Can you read? From where did you get the idea that I'm a Sunni? Or love Abu Bakr and other companions? Did I know them? Do I know their personal life? No! I only love the Messengers of God mentioned in the Qur'an!!!!!!!!!! 

My comment:

The Messenger (s.a.w) knew that he was the last/final/seal of the Prophet(s). So, this narration is fabricated. Sunnis and Shi'a, Come on. Don't use your fabricated narrations to always prove a point. Come back to the Qur'an which actually mentions no Sahaba, Ali or your 12, 14, 16 Imams by name - their names don't exist :hahaha:, Perhaps, Allah the Exalted forgot (Astaghfirullah). I'm still looking for Hasan and Husayn in the Qur'an :hahaha:. You can continue to twist the verse of God for your own doctrines and theology.  

My remarks were not towards the "imams" alone. 

You said:


Yes, I know and the sectarians (Sunnis and Shi'a) can explain the verses however they want, in fact you and they can also assert that verily we do find the names of Ali and Abu Bakr and so forth in the Qur'an, even if we can't actually find their names therein - We can still write our own tafsirs and claim that these names were deleted by the opposition. 

For an example, Sunnis claim and write in their tafsirs that Abu Bakr was in the cave with the Prophet (s.a.w) for three days. However, what do we find in the Qur'an? 

009:040 (Part) 
"If you help him not, certainly God helped him when those who disbelieved drove him out, the second of two; when they two were in the cave, when he said to his companion (Arabic: Sahibi)..."

No name is given by Allah (s.w.t), after this, everything is just speculations made by the shi'a and sunnis. You people can write 1000 tafsirs, yet tafsirs will never override the Qur'an. It will never override the words of Allah (s.w.t). The name is not mentioned in 9;40 and neither do we find Ali anywhere in the Qur'an. Furthermore, some Shi'a exegetes claimed that the Qur'an was corrupted, the name of Ali was deleted. Many Shi'a scholars claim this, want me to quote it here for ya? 

Wa as-salaam! 

I never said or implied you were a sunni... can YOU read? You are mocking Ahlul bayt(as) in kharijite wahhabi nasibi style. True sunnis love Ahlul bayt(as) and would never mock them.

No your remarks were not towards the Imams (as) alone but they are clearly riddled with contempt and disrespect towards them. Perhaps you are in fact very glad that the Imams were never mentioned by name in the Qur'an, which to you means you can reduce their status to that lower than the "companions" mentioned above. Anyone can see this is the whole basis behind your post. As long as you maintain this (non)argument you will continue to call any Qur'anic verse pointing to the virtues and status of Ahlul bayt (as) as a mere speculation. Sacrificing the status of Abu bakr and Umar as a result is a minor loss. If this "problematic issue" of Ahlul bayt and Imams, which is clearly bugging you, were non existent you would not have even made a remark, right?

Ok... let me keep it simple for you. If all we need is the Qur'an and we only take what it says literally then why did Allah (swt) send the Prophet (p) to deliver the message? He (swt) could have just sent the Qur'an all in one go straight to the doors of the Kaaba with a quick note saying "just read this and you'll be fine" (astaghfirullah).

 

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14 hours ago, MOHAMMAD MOHD said:

Brother please be to the point only.

Do you say Imam Ali(as) was the best one after prophet ? Yes or No

would you please define what do you mean by the best one? If you mean that Ali (ra) was the best  to lead ummah then my view is the same as that of Ahlus Sunnah that he was 'amongst' the best ones yet Abu Bakr (ra) was the most suitable rightly guided caliph and ameer of momineen. Ali (ra) got the leadership when he was truly the best one to lead the ummah and became ameer ul momineen when he was required by Allah to do the job.

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On 4/15/2016 at 6:45 AM, MOHAMMAD MOHD said:

,Do you agree Prophet Moses(as) asked for the best one from God?

On 4/15/2016 at 0:45 PM, aansoogas said:

. yes, he should be the second to Moses (as)

 

3 hours ago, aansoogas said:

would you please define what do you mean by the best one?

Now its upto you brother to tell what the word best meant?or tell what you meant by second to Moses(as).?

Please don't quote things about caliphate of abu bakr or praise of Imam Ali(as) unless necessary as i will try not to go off-topic.Lets revolve around those 3 narrations only.

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