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Zamestaneh

Calling upon the Ahlul Bayt

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Assalaamu 'aleykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatu

 

When it comes to making dua, I have heard of several ways in which one can seek the intercession of the Ahlul Bayt in order to help a dua get accepted, but I wanted to ask if all of these methods are considered acceptable according to mainstream Shia so this way I have a more correct understanding of Shi'ism.

I will give an example: I wish to make dua so that my heart is steady and I get good results in my university exams.

 

Method #1: "O Hussain, please steady my heart in my exams and give me good grades

Method #2: "O Allah, for the sake of your 'abd Hussain, please steady my heart in my exams and give me good grades"

Method #3: "O Hussain, please intercede for me with Allah (SWT) so that He may steady my heart in my exams and give me good grades."

Note: Replace the name Hussain with any other member of the Ahlul Bayt.

 

Could you please tell me if Shi'ism allows for all three methods, or just two, or just one?

 

BarakAllahu Feekum

Edited by Zamestaneh
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56 minutes ago, Zamestaneh said:

Method #2: "O Allah, for the sake of your 'abd Hussain, please steady my heart in my exams and give me good grades"

Salam. The best method for any dua is to start by saying Salawat, then ask Allah whatever you want and when you finish your dua repeat Salawat again. 

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20 minutes ago, hameedeh said:

Salam. The best method for any dua is to start by saying Salawat, then ask Allah whatever you want and when you finish your dua repeat Salawat again. 

JazakAllahu Khair for your response

To clarify, I wasn't trying to determine what is the best way in which to make dua, rather I am asking what is permissible.

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22 minutes ago, Zamestaneh said:

I wasn't trying to determine what is the best way in which to make dua, rather I am asking what is permissible.

I see your point. People often make dua in those and other methods. The correct method of dua is to start with Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem, also known as Basmala, then Salawat, then dua, then repeat Salawat.

If a person is in extreme danger or very emotional he/she might exclaim Ya Allah, omg, Khoda Ya, or something similar. They might even say Ya Ali, Ya Hussain or Ya Mahdi. If the person knows the correct method of dua, then Allah knows their intention.

If they bypass Allah by just praying to one of the Ahlul Bayt AS to solve their problem, that is incorrect. Shias don't pray to Ahlul Bayt AS, but mention Salawat or their name as a means to get closer to Allah. We remember them and try to emulate their pious behaviors. 

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4 minutes ago, hameedeh said:

I see your point. People often make dua in those and other methods. The correct method of dua is to start with Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem, also known as Basmala, then Salawat, then dua, then repeat Salawat.

If a person is in extreme danger or very emotional he/she might exclaim Ya Allah, omg, Khoda Ya, or something similar. They might even say Ya Ali, Ya Hussain or Ya Mahdi. If the person knows the correct method of dua, then Allah knows their intention. If they bypass Allah by just praying to one of the Ahlul Bayt AS to solve their problem, that is incorrect. Shias don't pray to Ahlul Bayt AS, but mention Salawat or their name as a means to get closer to Allah. We remember them and try to emulate their pious behaviors. 

So to concisely summarise, would you say that 1 and 3 are definitively haram to say, or would you say that they are permissible but heavily discouraged because of the various reasons you provided like not following the proper manner of making dua?

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1 hour ago, Zamestaneh said:

Method #1: "O Hussain, please steady my heart in my exams and give me good grades

Method #2: "O Allah, for the sake of your 'abd Hussain, please steady my heart in my exams and give me good grades"

Method #3: "O Hussain, please intercede for me with Allah (SWT) so that He may steady my heart in my exams and give me good grades."

I have never heard anyone make dua like Method #1. It is haram to pray to anyone except Allah.

Method #2 is permissible because the dua is directed to Allah SWT.

Method #3 is permissible, in my opinion, because it infers that the person knows that Allah is his Creator and He is the One who will fulfill the dua. 

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5 minutes ago, hameedeh said:

I have never heard anyone make dua like Method #1. It is haram to pray to anyone except Allah.

Method #2 is permissible because the dua is directed to Allah SWT.

Method #3 is permissible, in my opinion, because it infers that the person knows that Allah is his Creator and He is the One who will fulfill the dua. 

I don't think I have heard anyone say the first one either apart from people saying aneqdotal stories of speaking to an extremely Jahil person with an improper understanding of the religion making dua like this, but I decided to add it anyway just to see what others would say...

JazakAllahu Khair for answering my questions :)

I wanted to see if there was a widespread belief amongst the community (and not just yourself) that #3 is permissible or if it was supported by Shia scholars, and also if people have actually made dua like this in the past - I want to understand if people consider #3 common practice basically...

I have never been to visit any grave or shrine or Karbala, but do you know if #3 is common amongst those when they are by the graves?

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11 hours ago, Zamestaneh said:

I don't think I have heard anyone say the first one either apart from people saying aneqdotal stories of speaking to an extremely Jahil person with an improper understanding of the religion making dua like this, but I decided to add it anyway just to see what others would say...

JazakAllahu Khair for answering my questions :)

I wanted to see if there was a widespread belief amongst the community (and not just yourself) that #3 is permissible or if it was supported by Shia scholars, and also if people have actually made dua like this in the past - I want to understand if people consider #3 common practice basically...

I have never been to visit any grave or shrine or Karbala, but do you know if #3 is common amongst those when they are by the graves?

:salam: ,

             Best example for Method #3 is Dua-e-Tawassul. Here is the link to the same http://www.duas.org/tawassul.htm

Edited by yam_110

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19 hours ago, Zamestaneh said:

Method #2: "O Allah, for the sake of your 'abd Hussain, please steady my heart in my exams and give me good grades"

Wa aleykumsalaam,

Only Method 2 is proven from our authentic hadeeth, see this hadeeth


 قال: حدثني أبو جعفر محمد بن علي بن الحسين قال: حدثني أبي قال: حدثني محمد بن يحيى العطار قال: حدثنا محمد بن أحمد بن يحيى، عن الحسن بن علي الكوفي، عن العباس بن عامر القصباني، عن أحمد بن رزق الغمشاني، عن يحيى ابن أبي العلاء، عن جابر، عن أبي جعفر محمد بن علي بن الحسين، عن أبيه، عن جده عليهم السلام قال: قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم: إنه إذا كان يوم القيامة، وسكن أهل الجنة الجنة، وأهل النار النار، مكث عبد في النار سبعين خريفا والخريف سبعون سنة، ثم إنه يسأل الله عز وجل ويناديه فيقول: يا رب أسألك بحق محمد وأهل بيته لما رحمتني. فيوحي الله جل جلاله إلى جبرئيل عليه السلام [أن] اهبط إلى عبدي فأخرجه، فيقول جبرئيل: وكيف لي بالهبوط في النار؟ فيقول الله تبارك وتعالى: إنه قد أمرتها أن تكون عليك بردا وسلاما. قال: فيقول: يا رب فما علمي بموضعه؟ فيقول: إنه في جب من سجين. فيهبط جبرئيل عليه السلام إلى النار فيجده معقولا على وجهه فيخرجه.
فيقف بين يدي الله عز وجل، فيقول الله تعالى: يا عبدي كم لبثت في النار تناشدني؟ فيقول: يا رب ما أحصيته. فيقول الله عز وجل له: أما وعزتي وجلالي لولا ما (١) سألتني بحقهم عندي لأطلت هوانك في النار، ولكنه حتم على نفسي أن لا يسألني (٢) عبد بحق محمد وأهل بيته إلا غفرت له ما كان بيني وبينه (٣)، وقد غفرت لك اليوم، ثم يؤمر به إلى الجنة
 
 
He said: Abu Ja'far Muhammad b. Ali b. al-Husain reported from his father, who reported from Muhammad b. Yahya al-Attar, who reported from Muhammad b.Ahmad b. Yahya, from al-Hasan b. Ali al-Kufi, from al-Abbas b. Amir al-Qasbani, from Ahmad b. Rizq al-Ghamshani, from Yahya b. Abul Ala', from Jabir, from Abu Ja'far Muhammad b. Ali b. al-Husain, from his father, from his  grandfather (عليه السلام), who said:
 
The Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), said: "On the Day of Judgement, when the People of Paradise will have settled in their blissful gardens and the people of hell will be in the fire, there will be one who spent seventy autumns in the fire, each autumn is equal to seventy years; then he will beseech Allah, Most High, imploring: "O my Sustainer, I ask you in the name of Muhammad and the inmates of his house to have mercy on me." Then Allah, Most Mighty, will command Jibraeel  (عليه السلام): "Descend to my servant and release him." Jibraeel would say: "How can I descend into hellfire?" Allah, Most Benevolent, would say: "We have commanded the fire to be cold and safe for you." He (Jibraeel) would say: "O my Sustainer! How do I know where he is located?" Allah would say: "He is in the pit of Sijjin." Then Jibraeel would descend into the fire, find him shackled onto his face, so he will get him out. There he (the servant) stands in the presence of Allah, Most High; then Allah
addresses him: "O My servant, for how long have you been in fire, entreating Me thus?" He would say: "I have no count." Allah, Most High, would say: "By My Honour, had you not beseeched in the name of those, who have a status in My estimation, you would have stayed there in a prolonged humiliation. But, I have ordained for Myself that no one asks me in the name of Muhammad and the inmates of his household, except that I forgive him all that is between Me and him. So, I have pardoned you today." Then Allah will command for him to be taken to the Paradise.
 
Grading:
  1. Hadi Najafi:"Muwaththaq Sanad" (Mawsu'at Ahadith Ahl al-Bayt 11/202)

 

For more hadeeth you can visit this link: http://discovershiaislam.blogspot.in/2013/01/making-dua-in-right-of-muhammad-wa-aley.html

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On 4/10/2016 at 11:13 AM, Zamestaneh said:

Assalaamu 'aleykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatu

 

When it comes to making dua, I have heard of several ways in which one can seek the intercession of the Ahlul Bayt in order to help a dua get accepted, but I wanted to ask if all of these methods are considered acceptable according to mainstream Shia so this way I have a more correct understanding of Shi'ism.

I will give an example: I wish to make dua so that my heart is steady and I get good results in my university exams.

 

Method #1: "O Hussain, please steady my heart in my exams and give me good grades

Method #2: "O Allah, for the sake of your 'abd Hussain, please steady my heart in my exams and give me good grades"

Method #3: "O Hussain, please intercede for me with Allah (SWT) so that He may steady my heart in my exams and give me good grades."

Note: Replace the name Hussain with any other member of the Ahlul Bayt.

 

Could you please tell me if Shi'ism allows for all three methods, or just two, or just one?

 

BarakAllahu Feekum

All 3 are fine because in none of the cases Hussain (or any Ahlulbayt) is thought of as a diety but as intermediaries or intercessors - nothing more, nothing less.

1 - you are asking Hussain to pray for you.

2 - you are asking Allah in the name of Hussain

3 - you are asking Hussain to intercede for you.

Where is the shirk?

Edited by shiaman14

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3 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

1 - you are asking Hussain to pray for you.

But Hussain prayers are not what makes it happen. It's Allah that does it, with us accepting the help and doing our part as well. And the prayers of Hussain maybe accepted it maybe not, just as Ibrahim's prayer although was of the noblest intention for his uncle/father, didn't avail him at the end, and ended up doing tabara from him.

 

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On April 13, 2016 at 4:49 PM, StrugglingForTheLight said:

But Hussain prayers are not what makes it happen. It's Allah that does it, with us accepting the help and doing our part as well. And the prayers of Hussain maybe accepted it maybe not, just as Ibrahim's prayer although was of the noblest intention for his uncle/father, didn't avail him at the end, and ended up doing tabara from him.

 

salam thats where intentions comes into play though right if you think imam Hussein(as) is able to do this with out Allah (swt) than ther is a problem but if you know his power authority comes from Allah (swt) there is no problem corrct me if i, wrong brother 

Edited by LabaikYaHussein

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Tawfeed in the sense delegation has been given to Ahlulbayt is condemned in ahadith and in perhaps the verse in Quran "neither would he command you to take the Angels and Prophets as Arbab" after stating no Prophet would tell his people to worship him, is stating a different thing than simply worshiping them, but that he would not even given them delegation over the souls and Risq, so that we take them as Arbab. The "nor" suggests "Arbab" here means something different then objects of worship.

What this means is while it's ok to seek their intercession, it's not ok to think they been delegated responsibility to destine you things, but rather intercede by God's permission, while Allah is the one who to be asked for Risq.

This doesn't matter if it's by God's permission or not. It's that Allah [swt] doesn't assign others to rule the destiny of humans or any creation for that matter. Rather, the Risq and destiny is in Allah's [swt] hand and those who intercede do so only by his permission.

 

 

Edited by StrugglingForTheLight

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Only Method 2 is proven from our authentic hadeeth, see this hadeeth

If only method 2 is proven from our authentic hadiths, then how other people try to valid method 1 and 3?. If we only have authentic hadith of method 2 to be valid, how in the world some of us came to conclusion that 1 and 3 is valid too.

Edited by Dhulfikar

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12 hours ago, StrugglingForTheLight said:

Tawfeed in the sense delegation has been given to Ahlulbayt is condemned in ahadith and in perhaps the verse in Quran "neither would he command you to take the Angels and Prophets as Arbab" after stating no Prophet would tell his people to worship him, is stating a different thing than simply worshiping them, but that he would not even given them delegation over the souls and Risq, so that we take them as Arbab. The "nor" suggests "Arbab" here means something different then objects of worship.

What this means is while it's ok to seek their intercession, it's not ok to think they been delegated responsibility to destine you things, but rather intercede by God's permission, while Allah is the one who to be asked for Risq.

This doesn't matter if it's by God's permission or not. It's that Allah [swt] doesn't assign others to rule the destiny of humans or any creation for that matter. Rather, the Risq and destiny is in Allah's [swt] hand and those who intercede do so only by his permission.

 

 

Exactly so asking Imam Hussein (as) to help you knowing it's by Allah (swt) permission there is no problem 

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11 hours ago, Dhulfikar said:

If only method 2 is proven from our authentic hadiths, then how other people try to valid method 1 and 3?. If we only have authentic hadith of method 2 to be valid, how in the world some of us came to conclusion that 1 and 3 is valid too.

Lol we have scholars who study Islam all their lives sayings it's permissible why do we preform ziyarat when from afar from the holy shrines what authority do you have to say it's not

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1 hour ago, LabaikYaHussein said:

Lol we have scholars who study Islam all their lives sayings it's permissible why do we preform ziyarat when from afar from the holy shrines what authority do you have to say it's not

We have scholars who studied Islam all their lives, and they say x is permissible, thus x must be correct. How can someone study all their lives, and how does it imply that studying all their lives makes something x permissible and valid and thus it must be correct?

Edited by Dhulfikar

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8 minutes ago, Dhulfikar said:

We have scholars who studied Islam all their lives, and they say x is permissible, thus x must be correct. How can someone study all their lives, and how does it imply that studying all their lives makes something x permissible and valid and thus it must be correct?

When you have 95% of tops scholars in the world who have studied Islam and tawassal tafsir of Quran and saying its permissible then we have you who saying its not brother use your own logic it's allowed to ask our Masoom to intercede on our behalf there is nothing wrong as long as it's to gain nearness to Allah (swt) if your so against this practice go become a scholar go and bring your proofs go discredit the ayatollahs if your truthful

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15 minutes ago, LabaikYaHussein said:

When you have 95% of tops scholars in the world who have studied Islam and tawassal tafsir of Quran and saying its permissible then we have you who saying its not brother use your own logic it's allowed to ask our Masoom to intercede on our behalf there is nothing wrong as long as it's to gain nearness to Allah (swt) if your so against this practice go become a scholar go and bring your proofs go discredit the ayatollahs if your truthful

Even when they say it is permissible, it does not necessary conclude that their decision is correct one. If they say it is permissible, then they must have reasoning and proof of it, but what is the proof I am asking? If the only method proven from our authentic hadith is method #2, how suddenly other methods that have not mentioned in hadiths are suddenly permissible?

Edited by Dhulfikar

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1 hour ago, iubelum said:

Imo only method #2 is fine.Methods #1 and 3 ares hirk.

Get out of here man you don't know definition of shirk what authority do you having saying things like this go learn to accept the wilayat of Amir al momineen before you come talk

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21 hours ago, LabaikYaHussein said:

Get out of here man you don't know definition of shirk what authority do you having saying things like this go learn to accept the wilayat of Amir al momineen before you come talk

Have you missed to read that the authentic Shia sources allow only method #2?

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1 hour ago, LabaikYaHussein said:

If you are truthful bring forth your evidence 

Because only method 2 is mentioned in authentic hadiths.  Method 1 is shirk, because the person think it is Husain who can give you something. Method 3 is the problematic one, not because Imams are alive and can hear us from their graves, but the concept of intercede need to be proven that it is still valid even when they have passed from this earth.

The thing is that we can prove method 3, if we have authentic hadith that say it is allowed, this is because we already have sahih hadith for how to call Allah (swt), so the concept of "if it is not mentioned in Quran and Hadith, then it is true"  is not valid. Or any evidence that following concept is still valid when they are not among us:

And if, when they wronged themselves, they had come to you, [O Muhammad], and asked forgiveness of Allah and the Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah Accepting of repentance and Merciful.

If we visit Prophet Muhammad (saws) or Imams (as), They would intercede us in Day of Jugement, but where it says they will intercede us in this earth?

Edited by Dhulfikar

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Salam

To be honest, I find Quran doesn't say much unless you want search for it and try to see the truth regarding a subject.

And for this, I feel assurance that the Quran talked about the prayers of Mohammad being a tranquility for people, then talked about to do good for God and his Messenger and believers will see their actions, and then they will be returned to the one who knows the unseen and witnessed, and will inform them about what they do.

Believers here specifically refers to the Imams per our ahadith.

And the Quran through out emphasized on a witness from each people, and that witnesses will testify against people on the day of judgement.

I feel the truth is at the end, if we turn to Imam Redha for example, to pray for us, at the end, it must be approved by Imam Mahdi and Allah. What I mean by Imam Mahdi is that he is the one who witnesses us. And Mohammad witnesses him (Imam Mahdi) and prays for who he prays for.

But I believe at the end, our prayers, are constantly monitored by Imam Mahdi. This is not through physically seeing us, but rather, through the malakut and through Angels constantly in motion to his soul, he sees in light, the inward of our actions, but not the degree God sees it. But rather he sees it in summary spiritual forms and he witnesses the people spiritually.

Physically, he doesn't know the people, just as the Prophet didn't know every person and who was who, but he witnessed them spiritually and will testify against them.

At the end, I believe in asking the Ahlulbayt to pray for us, but  I do believe, at the end, the closest intercession for us and the one the others revolve around, including that of Angels, is that of Imam Mahdi.

And we ought to realize this position he has with us and the mercy of God through him and for his sake.

There is no doubt this whole philosophy of not talking to Imams is to distance ourselves from Imam Al-Zaman. 

We are required to say "peace be upon you o you Prophet" five times a day for a reason.

If people feel they don't need the prayers of Imam Al-Zaman and the Prophet and Fatima and the Imams, then so be it.

What is the point of only benefiting from their intercession and prayers on the day of judgement? 

There is no doubt that their prayers are important in this world for our sake as well. It won't be enough if we don't pray to God as well and act upon those prayers, but it compliments all that. It's not either or thing.

 

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http://www.al-islam.org/shiite-encyclopedia-ahlul-bayt-dilp-team/prayer-salat-according-five-islamic-schools-law-part-2#7-tashahhud

اَلسَّلامُ عَلَيْكَ اَيُّها ٱلنَّبِىُّ وَ رَحْمَةُ اللهِ وَ بَرَكاتُه!

Assalamu ‘alayka ayyuha’n-nabiyyu wa rahmatullahi wa barakuh!

http://www.al-islam.org/commentary-prayer-professor-muhsin-qaraati/tashahhud-and-salam

*****

Then 'Alqama said: “Abu Ja'far (al-Baqir) (a.s.) said; 'If you are able to greet and salute him (al-Husayn) every day with this salutation from your house, then do so, and you will obtain the reward of all that (all the above-mentioned rewards).”35

http://www.al-islam.org/articles/ziyaratu-ashura-analytical-study-reports-pilgrimage-imam-al-husayn-day-ashura#salutation

Edited by S.M.H.A.

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22 hours ago, Dhulfikar said:

Because only method 2 is mentioned in authentic hadiths.  Method 1 is shirk, because the person think it is Husain who can give you something. Method 3 is the problematic one, not because Imams are alive and can hear us from their graves, but the concept of intercede need to be proven that it is still valid even when they have passed from this earth.

When Hurr came to Imam Hussain (as) on the morning of Ashura and was repentant, the Imam said, "My Allah and I forgive you". How could Hussain speak on behalf of Allah? Did Hussain commit shirk? How could he give forgiveness on behalf of Allah?

Edited by shiaman14

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