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In the Name of God بسم الله

Why noone respects us? What is our worth?

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Zendegi

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From the perspective of someone living in the West, I just don't get why they are so behind in their education and in getting jobs. In particular the youth who were with either born and raised in their adopted countries or came as a young child, instead I see not all but some youth as part of gangs and shady groups.

Where I am living, in centres I go to I meet quite a few who are drop outs in school or don't end up getting a University (College) education, who all basically go on to do menial jobs. Yes a University education is not a requirement. to become successful as there are a few other pathways but its it is the best indicator of educational attainment in the workplace. I just don't get why School and University education, doesn't play a big priority or have any value for many Shia communities. The emphasis is solely put on their culture and religious education, that's it.

I believe our youth should be playing a part in the society they reside in instead of simply benefiting from it. For instance going into the higher end professions that's will have value/merit and contribute the most. By this I mean the majority of the STEM fields (Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics), which are the building blocks of society and have been for centuries. From the early years, the youth should be encouraged to take a passion in both the Sciences and Mathematics. Mathematics should be heavily encouraged as it is a life skill, I mean in particular the Calculus based Maths not just any Maths. Also Medicine and Law should also be professions the youth should be striving for as they to are beneficial to society.

I get many people don't come from well off families and whose parents don't have a proper education let a lone a degree, but this should instead act as an external motivator to do much better. You are living in a country where you have all the tools at your own disposal, where you are not being prevented in any way from achieving further so you don't have really no excuse. A lot of your parents worked hard to get you to the country you live in, you should instead repay it back and work hard.

As a group of religious close knit people we have to change for the better, progress where we are living and show our worth to others. If you want respect and support in the country you live in, this is the only way to do it. Even though this is targeted towards people who live in the West as I live here and understand it better, its also for anyone from whatever country that they reside in.

 

 

 

Edited by Zendegi
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wait what? r u saying that people from other countries who come live in the west dont have a higher sense  of achievement? imean i dont know about you but i felt people were concentrating more on this life than religious studies, i am assuming youre iranian, so the shias you meet are at iranian communties and iranian masjids right?

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Salam,

I completely agree with your views.  Education in this world is very important for our community to be recognised.  Jabir ibn Hayyan was a companion of Imam Jafar Saadiq (a·s), not only did he excell in religious teachings but was taught chemistry by Imam. So his worldly profession was of a chemist.

Apparently here in Pakistan,  a lot of people have this point of view that worldly education is not important. Its just how pious you are matters. 

Well, someone needs make a change,  and personally,  I think it has to come from the youth itself. 

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42 minutes ago, sidnaq said:

wait what? r u saying that people from other countries who come live in the west dont have a higher sense  of achievement? imean i dont know about you but i felt people were concentrating more on this life than religious studies, i am assuming youre iranian, so the shias you meet are at iranian communties and iranian masjids right?

I am not saying all but there are definitely quite a few who don't.

I move around a lot and nowadays in my city there are lot of mixed centre where there are Pakistanis, Indians, Lebanese, Hazara, Iraqis and all sorts of people all going to listen to the same lectures which are of course in English. I grew up around lots of different groups of Shias, so I have an understanding. Over here where I grew up and live, there was never a lot of practicing Iranians to have an exclusively Iranian centre so I ended getting lot of different sorts of Shias and grew up learning more and more about their circumstances over the years.

Me myself, I came from a well off family but I felt grieved about learning of the situation of people who I knew early on from childhood dropped out late in school and have skills in menial professions, yet they are struggling to find work. But yes I have heard success stories, from people with literally nothing when they were a child to topping the state in their final year exams and now being well paid doctors, actuaries, engineers or working for one of the biggest banking firms in the world. When I hear stories such as the latter it lightens my mood and I am optimistic we can succeed with our youth.

Don't disregard all that I have said, this what we need to do to succeed and better represent ourselves in our respective countries. Education is the key to success and all the things after that which I emphasised in my last post. We are a close knit Shia community and can be doing better than we are.

 

 

Edited by Zendegi
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I wish I hadn't gone to university!! My mother forced me to study mathematics but I was into history, philosophy n literature. I was really into Farsi literature n I also used to use lots of expressions n poems in my everyday conversation but my mum didn't even give a toss to my feelings!!! So I was depressed as a teenager... This point of view can do nothing except bringing up hopeless n aimless ppl. Everyone has their own preferences. Actually I studied my favourite subject at uni (Architecture) but I wasn't satisfied... Instead of studying I could do more important things....... I never forget those bloody math talent classes... oh, too much money n time wasted ...

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8 minutes ago, Semiramis said:

I wish I hadn't gone to university!! My mother forced me to study mathematics but I was into history, philosophy n literature. I was really into Farsi literature n I also used to use lots of expressions n poems in my everyday conversation but my mum didn't even give a toss to my feelings!!! So I was depressed as a teenager... This point of view can do nothing except bringing up hopeless n aimless ppl. Everyone has their own preferences. Actually I studied my favourite subject at uni (Architecture) but I wasn't satisfied... Instead of studying I could do more important things....... I never forget those bloody math talent classes... oh, too much money n time wasted ...

so what did u do then.what r u doing now

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30 minutes ago, Semiramis said:

I wish I hadn't gone to university!! My mother forced me to study mathematics but I was into history, philosophy n literature. I was really into Farsi literature n I also used to use lots of expressions n poems in my everyday conversation but my mum didn't even give a toss to my feelings!!! So I was depressed as a teenager... This point of view can do nothing except bringing up hopeless n aimless ppl. Everyone has their own preferences. Actually I studied my favourite subject at uni (Architecture) but I wasn't satisfied... Instead of studying I could do more important things....... I never forget those bloody math talent classes... oh, too much money n time wasted ...

What jobs can you get with literature and philosophy regardless? Just teaching that's it, but that's pretty competitive. Big chance of being unemployed as there will be just as many others with a literature degree but just a mere few positions. But it depends.

If I went according to my interests I would have simply went for a Arts degree, I am really into history and politics. After Uni what job are you going to get with an Arts degree?

This may sound weird, but you shouldn't decide your whole life and career on your interests. It unfortunately doesn't work like that.

 

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12 minutes ago, Semiramis said:

Teaching,  I always have a guilty conscience about everything n think I have to do something special in my life :confused:

Teaching is nice and plays a very important role in our society, such as passing on knowledge and nurturing our younger generations. Its a career with a lot of purpose in it. Teaching doesn't get the respect and value it truly deserves sadly. They should be paid more.

 I was planning on going on to teaching but went into Pure Mathematics and Engineering instead.

Edited by Zendegi
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10 minutes ago, Zendegi said:

What jobs can you get with literature and philosophy regardless? Just teaching that's it, but that's pretty competitive. Big chance of being unemployed as there will be just as many others with a literature degree but just a mere few positions. But it depends.

If I went according to my interests I would have simply went for a Arts degree, I am really into history and politics. After Uni what job are you going to get with an Arts degree?

This may sound weird, but you shouldn't decide your whole life and career on your interests. It unfortunately doesn't work like that.

 

Do u know Elahi Ghomsheis??? All of them studied theology, literature, philosophy n I admire them. Becoming a lecturer sounds amazing. What about Master Shajarian? Master Farshchian? Don't u think they r more successful than lots of mathematicians. Or Ali Hatami. They were my role models as a child. We only live once, better to follow our heart...

This film n its music changed my life when I was 16 n nobody could do that except an Artist

 

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1 hour ago, Semiramis said:

Do u know Elahi Ghomsheis??? All of them studied theology, literature, philosophy n I admire them. Becoming a lecturer sounds amazing. What about Master Shajarian? Master Farshchian? Don't u think they r more successful than lots of mathematicians. Or Ali Hatami. They were my role models as a child. We only live once, better to follow our heart...

This film n its music changed my life when I was 16 n nobody could do that except an Artist

 

Not everyone can be as exceptionally good as them. They are exemptions. Not everyone can be a footballer neither can everyone become an actor and musician! This is what you are not getting.

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Salam,

Probably the OP mainly meant higher education than which field to actually persue.

This really goes back to family upbringing and people who you choose as friends. Most youth coming from lower educational and cultural background are not motivated internally for higher education, but are more pulled towards quick buck, specially with the bad job market, and the amount of years and hard work you have to put in studying.

I believe men should be more practical when choosing a line to excel in, however woman can gear more towards the educational line she "likes", if being hired in the job market is not the goal for her, and she can start her own business.

The issue with certain groups of people is that although they say religion should be given more importance, religion as it should be taken is not being done either, other wise there would have not be so many youth joining daesh and gangs.

What they are actually practising is not the truth of Islam, but what they have learnt from their ancestors.

A person who has been taught religion properly will be a responsible person with a proper life schedule , and may even excel in other fields of his talent, by seeing it as a religious obligation to serve for the betterment of humanity.

What people actually lack is foresight,wisdom,vision, passion, and a goal.

Higher education can be persued without going to Uni in certain fields, with current technology and access to the Internet.

The opposite is also true, in some countries people enroll in university just because it has become fashionable or family pressure and don't actually make use of what they learn, and forget what they learn once they don't practise it. Which results in just waste of time, money and energy.

Edited by certainclarity
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6 hours ago, Zendegi said:

What jobs can you get with literature and philosophy regardless? Just teaching that's it, but that's pretty competitive. Big chance of being unemployed as there will be just as many others with a literature degree but just a mere few positions. But it depends.

If I went according to my interests I would have simply went for a Arts degree, I am really into history and politics. After Uni what job are you going to get with an Arts degree?

This may sound weird, but you shouldn't decide your whole life and career on your interests. It unfortunately doesn't work like that.

 

Salam,

Here in the UK there are employers who care less about your academic qualifications and more about the experience you've accumulated throughout your educational career. And sometimes the degree you do in University doesn't even need to be directly relevant to the occupation you wish to pursue. English Literature, for example, is valued by employers in the Law/Education/Information & Research/Marketing sectors, meaning there are many jobs for you to pick within these categories. 

Also, while I agree interest alone shouldn't constitute all your decision-making for your future career, it's definitely important. In fact, I would argue passion and genuine interest are THE most important things, or else you'll end up in Semiramis' position.

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Education is important and is emphasized in Islam, however, University isn't the only way to be educated. A skilled artisan is much more able to contribute to society than a new graduate. University degrees only are useful for getting the employment you desire. If you want to learn, you would do just as well with a library card.

There is not a thing wrong with being knowledgeable about hands-on work rather than or in addition to University degree level work. The problem people have nowadays is that they are told that the only way to live a fulfilling life is to get a degree or two, and not everyone is suited for that, plus not everyone can afford it. We need to find a new way to emphasize seeking knowledge without degrading hands-on work.

Edited by notme
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19 hours ago, Zendegi said:

Yes a University education is not a requirement to become successful as there are a few other pathways but its it is the best indicator of educational attainment in the workplace.

This is what I have already mentioned in my first post.

Anyways getting back to the point, there are some jobs that are more useful and of benefit to society more than others which are youth should be striving for. Let alone getting a degree or useful skills for the work place many of our communities around the world see no value or importance in getting a well rounded education. I have seen it all.

Yes you can't force any person in to Science or Mathematics when there already an adult or teenager, these 2 fundamental disciplines should be encouraged to a child at an early age to develop an interest later on. They are important life skills. Plus there is a need for more people in STEM fields, which are the building blocks of our society and have been for centuries.

Living here, people like Jews and Asians have long surpassed us in this regard. They have already seen the merit and importance of these fields and so have heavily encouraged their children to develop a passion and interest in them. Their children are doing the best in schools and getting top marks, while our youth are dropping out of school and going into menial jobs. I respect their values and work ethic, something we should instead learn from them.

 

 

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People who lack money don't have access to advanced degrees. That's why I said there are other ways to be educated, and we need to not devalue skilled labor. That might encourage less wealthy people to not give up.

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23 minutes ago, notme said:

People who lack money don't have access to advanced degrees. That's why I said there are other ways to be educated, and we need to not devalue skilled labor. That might encourage less wealthy people to not give up.

I don't know much about what goes on in the states where I know college fees are one of the highest in the world, but the situation is different for every country. In some countries its free of charge like in Scandinavia whereas in others like mine government loans and subsidies are in place to relieve the cost of Tertiary education, where you pay back in Taxes when you reach a certain income level and have a job.

A university degree is not a necessity as I have mentioned previously as there are indeed multiple pathways to these jobs.

Edited by Zendegi
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asa,

 

why not encourages our youth to join the labor trade unions, they have great benefits and for those who can't afford college, you don't have much cost. the fact that in some communities education is worshipped or frowned upon is unbalanced. for instance if your child was alim, they won't make much money, but it is a better feild than uni grasd etc. why not ebncouage we shia to open our own farms and s;aughter houses and not have to dpend the muwiyaites for that?

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General fault lies in the parenting and the islamic community. They try to segregate their children as much as possible so their children will not blend in the community. They also try to enforce weird career choices on their children without considering that their child might not fit in it. i also,think the parents emphasis too many ritualistic part of islam in the minds of their imprssionable kids so the children always and Forever feel guilty about islam. 

Edited by Gypsy
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