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In the Name of God بسم الله

Jewish Monkeys?

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As-Salam 'Alaikum,

Imam al-Bukhari records this beautiful hadith in his Sahih:

حدثنا نعيم بن حماد حدثنا هشيم عن حصين عن عمرو بن ميمون قال : رأيت في الجاهلية قردة اجتمع قردة قد زنت فرجموها فرجمتها معهم

Narrated 'Amr bin Maimun:

During the pre-Islamic period of ignorance I saw a she-monkey surrounded by a number of monkeys. They were all stoning it, because it had committed illegal sexual intercourse. I too, stoned it along with them.

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3 minutes ago, Ruq said:

I dont understand the 'Jewish' reference (?)

It was during the Jahiliyyah period. Jews were the only ones who had stoning as the penalty for adultery. And these monkeys literally carried the stoning penalty for adultery. Therefore, they must have been Jews.

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On 4/7/2016 at 0:14 AM, Ruq said:

I dont understand the 'Jewish' reference (?)

I didn't understand anything. Was the opening post meant to be taken seriously? 

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I don't know what to think about this. Was this to enlarge his collection of ahaadith that he put such ahaadith in it?

And what about the people who heard this for the first time? Didn't they ask theirselves with what kind of strange stuff this Bukhari confronted them with?

 

Edited by Talut
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6 minutes ago, starlight said:

I didn't understand anything. Was the opening post meant to be taken seriously? 

The question is rather if we should take such ahaadith seriously.

It is a Sahih hadith according to Sunni standards.

Edited by Talut
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6 minutes ago, starlight said:

I didn't understand anything. Was the opening post meant to be taken seriously? 

A group of monkeys, according to Sahih al-Bukhari, carried out the stoning penalty on a she-monkey which committed adultery. I have shared the beautiful hadith here for information purposes only.

The hadith clearly indicates that monkeys too conduct nikah among themselves, and that the capital offence of adultery exists among them too.

Edited by أبو فاطمة المحمدي
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50 minutes ago, أبو فاطمة المحمدي said:

It was during the Jahiliyyah period. Jews were the only ones who had stoning as the penalty for adultery. And these monkeys literally carried the stoning penalty for adultery. Therefore, they must have been Jews.

:hahaha:

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1 hour ago, أبو فاطمة المحمدي said:

It was during the Jahiliyyah period. Jews were the only ones who had stoning as the penalty for adultery. And these monkeys literally carried the stoning penalty for adultery. Therefore, they must have been Jews.

Flawed logic. You're assuming the monkeys were Jewish ? :einstein:

Quite an insult to Ahle Kitaab Jews I would say. :censored:

1 hour ago, Talut said:

The question is rather if we should take such ahaadith seriously.

I'm still trying to figure out the purpose of that hadith. Maybe someone with a higher level of intelligence can let us know. All I got out of it was that a bunch of Monkeys stoned another Monkey. 

Apparently, Amr bin Maimun knew how to talk to monkeys since he knew that the female monkey cheated on her husband. :cool:

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6 minutes ago, Akbar673 said:

Flawed logic. You're assuming the monkeys were Jewish ? :einstein:

Quite an insult to Ahle Kitaab Jews I would say. :censored:

I'm still trying to figure out the purpose of that hadith. Maybe someone with a higher level of intelligence can let us know. All I got out of it was that a bunch of Monkeys stoned another Monkey. 

Apparently, Amr bin Maimun knew how to talk to monkeys since he knew that the female monkey cheated on her husband. :cool:

He probably attended the trial as well.

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This is kind of racist........I mean it's fine that it's written somewhere and it is in a book that many Muslims consider truthful, but we don't so why post something that can deem us racist? A visitor coming to this site doesn't know that Sahih bukhari is Sunni........he might get the wrong idea. 

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1 hour ago, Akbar673 said:

'm still trying to figure out the purpose of that hadith. Maybe someone with a higher level of intelligence can let us know. All I got out of it was that a bunch of Monkeys stoned another Monkey. 

 

I'm struggling to understand this as well, one of the reasons I left the Sunni interpretation of Islam.

Edited by Gaius I. Caesar
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2 hours ago, أبو فاطمة المحمدي said:

It was during the Jahiliyyah period. Jews were the only ones who had stoning as the penalty for adultery. And these monkeys literally carried the stoning penalty for adultery. Therefore, they must have been Jews.

That's not true:Jews stopped stoning adulterers around the time their 2nd Temple was destroyed.Do your homework a bit better before posting idiocies.

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19 minutes ago, iubelum said:

That's not true:Jews stopped stoning adulterers around the time their 2nd Temple was destroyed.Do your homework a bit better before posting idiocies.

Which idiocy? The conclusion or the hadith itself?

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How dare you insult the most authentic book after the Qur'an. Obviously monkeys can commit zina, and obviously monkeys have the intellectual capability of gathering together, recognizing said sin, and then proceed to execute a fellow monkey in a stoning ceremony. Its Sahih brother, knock it off.

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4 hours ago, أبو فاطمة المحمدي said:

As-Salam 'Alaikum,

Imam al-Bukhari records this beautiful hadith in his Sahih:

حدثنا نعيم بن حماد حدثنا هشيم عن حصين عن عمرو بن ميمون قال : رأيت في الجاهلية قردة اجتمع قردة قد زنت فرجموها فرجمتها معهم

Narrated 'Amr bin Maimun:

During the pre-Islamic period of ignorance I saw a she-monkey surrounded by a number of monkeys. They were all stoning it, because it had committed illegal sexual intercourse. I too, stoned it along with them.

 

Waleykum Salaam,

Reply from brother Farid:

Quote

In response to the sarcastic title from a Shiachatter who makes fun of the narration of Amr bin Maymoun:

If you want to make jokes on Amr bin Maymoun for saying that he saw monkeys stone a monkey for committing adultery, then be my guest. This is the same narrator that narrates all those narrations in praise of Ali in Musnad Ahmad.

Oh, wait! Now he is reliable again?! Make up your minds.

Furthermore, Shias believe in Jewish monkeys since it is authentically narrated in Al Kafi, in the Book of Food, under the second chapter and fifth hadith, that lizards, mice, MONKEYS, and pigs, were transformed from humans into those creatures, and therefore, it is haram to eat them in Shiasm.

Therefore, it shouldn't be that strange for Shias to accept this strange narration from Amr bin Maymoun, since they believe that monkeys used to be people.

 

 

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Al Kafi isn't seen as an absolutely authentic book in the first place.

Also, a recopilation book shall not exclusively be judged in a generalizing approach, but each piece of content should be taken into consideration and judged with the means we have got.

There is also need to recognize variety of opinions. While someone may stay neutral, others may find this hadith ridiculous, and that is still not defyning a whole religious group viewpoint.

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44 minutes ago, Abul Hussain Hassani said:

 

Waleykum Salaam,

Reply from brother Farid:

 

 

The only real monkey in this thread is that Farid filth from *************.net

Someone needs to hack that website. Where's Anonymous when we need them?

Edited by Akbar673
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5 hours ago, أبو فاطمة المحمدي said:

As-Salam 'Alaikum,

Imam al-Bukhari records this beautiful hadith in his Sahih:

حدثنا نعيم بن حماد حدثنا هشيم عن حصين عن عمرو بن ميمون قال : رأيت في الجاهلية قردة اجتمع قردة قد زنت فرجموها فرجمتها معهم

Narrated 'Amr bin Maimun:

During the pre-Islamic period of ignorance I saw a she-monkey surrounded by a number of monkeys. They were all stoning it, because it had committed illegal sexual intercourse. I too, stoned it along with them.

Salam,

It is narrated by a Sahhabi not the Prophet(SAWS) himself and he was the one who carried out the act of stoning if I am not mistaken.

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Monkeys don't speak. They can't pronounce a marriage agreement. No marriage = no adultery. The idea of animals committing adultery is absurd. 

 

What is the purpose of this discussion?

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Humans were transformed into monkeys and pigs and thats why their meat is haram? how does that make any sense?

It seems far more likely that people were left to degenerate to the station of monkeys and pigs, perhaps because they exhibited habits/characteristics that were monkey-like and pig-like. Its like saying people became undignified and unclean in their habits.

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16 minutes ago, notme said:

Monkeys don't speak. They can't pronounce a marriage agreement. No marriage = no adultery. The idea of animals committing adultery is absurd. 

 

What is the purpose of this discussion?

The Sabbath breakers were transformed into monkeys. There is a possibility that those transformed into monkeys mantained their human aql when they transformed.

17 minutes ago, Ruq said:

Humans were transformed into monkeys and pigs and thats why their meat is haram? how does that make any sense?

It seems far more likely that people were left to degenerate to the station of monkeys and pigs, perhaps because they exhibited habits/characteristics that were monkey-like and pig-like. Its like saying people became undignified and unclean in their habits.

Uhh don't you know the Holy Qur'an says some people were transformed into humans and pigs? Why isn't that a good reason to say it is haram - for that reason?

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2 hours ago, Enlightened Follower said:

Salam,

It is narrated by a Sahhabi not the Prophet(SAWS) himself and he was the one who carried out the act of stoning if I am not mistaken.

As stoning was not mentioned in the Quran this could be a way to strengthen the claim that it is a just punishment as even the monkeys do this. 

 

Edited by Talut
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7 hours ago, The Batman said:

The Sabbath breakers were transformed into monkeys. There is a possibility that those transformed into monkeys mantained their human aql when they transformed.

Well, according to our reports, when Allah transforms anyone into an animal, he dies within three days, without leaving any offspring. 'Allamah al-Majlisi, may Allah be pleased with him, stated this in his Bihar:

أقول: قد ورد في أخبارنا أيضا موافقا لما روي عن ابن عباس، كما في تفسير العسكري عليه السلام: كانوا كذلك ثلاثة أيام، ثم بعث الله عليهم ريحا ومطرا فجر بهم إلى البحر وما بقي مسخ بعد ثلاثة أيام، وأما التي ترون من هذه المصورات بصورها فإنما هي أشباهها لاهي بأعيانها ولا من نسلها.
 

وروى الصدوق في العلل بإسناده عن عبد الله بن الفضل قال: قلت لأبي عبد الله عليه السلام قول الله عز وجل " ولقد علمتم الذين اعتدوا منكم في السبت فقلنا لهم كونوا قردة خاسئين " قال: إن أولئك مسخوا ثلاثة أيام، ثم ماتوا ولم يتناسلوا، وإن القردة اليوم مثل أولئك، وكذلك الخنزير وسائر المسوخ ما وجد منها اليوم من شئ فهو مثله، لا يحل أن يؤكل لحمه (1) (الخبر).
 

وروى في العيون بإسناده عن علي بن محمد بن الجهم قال: سمعت المأمون يسأل الرضا عليه السلام عما يرويه الناس من أمر الزهرة، وأنها كانت امرأة فتن بها هاروت وماروت، وما يروونه من أمر سهيل: أنه كان عشارا باليمن. فقال عليه السلام: كذبوا في قولهم أنهما كوكبان، وإنهما كانتا دابتين من دواب البحر، فغلط الناس وظنوا أنهما الكوكبان، وما كان الله ليمسخ أعداءه أنوارا مضيئة، ثم يبقيهما ما بقيت السماء والأرض، وإن المسوخ لم يبق أكثر من ثلاثة أيام حتى ماتت، وما تناسل منها شئ، وما على وجه الأرض اليوم مسخ، وإن التي وقعت عليها اسم المسوخية مثل القرد والخنزير والدب وأشباهها، إنما هي مثل ما مسخ الله عز وجل على صورها قوما غضب الله عليهم ولعنهم، بإنكارهم توحيد الله وتكذيبهم رسله (الخبر) (2).
 

أقول: فقد ثبت بهذه الاخبار أن هذه الحيوانات ليست من نسل هؤلاء المسوخ ولا من نوعهم، وإنما هي على صورهم. وقد عرفت أن المسخ ليس تناسخا، لان الروح لم ينتقل إلى بدن آخر، وإنما تغيرت صورة البدن، وأما التناسخ بمعنى انتقال

Quote

Uhh don't you know the Holy Qur'an says some people were transformed into humans and pigs? Why isn't that a good reason to say it is haram - for that reason?

It is apparently an error to assume that there were no monkeys on the earth before the time of Prophet Musa (peace be upon him). There certainly were monkeys long before then - in Africa, Asia, North America, South America, Europe, Australia and so on. The few who were transformed into monkeys in Israel (in the Middle East) died three days later without producing any (monkey) offspring, as the hadiths (and also science) confirm. Moreover, as the second hadith above shows, the monkeys and pigs and others today have absolutely no link with the transformed humans of the past.

Edited by أبو فاطمة المحمدي
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55 minutes ago, أبو فاطمة المحمدي said:

Well, according to our reports, when Allah transforms anyone into an animal, he dies within three days, without leaving any offspring. 'Allamah al-Majlisi, may Allah be pleased with him, stated this in his Bihar:

أقول: قد ورد في أخبارنا أيضا موافقا لما روي عن ابن عباس، كما في تفسير العسكري عليه السلام: كانوا كذلك ثلاثة أيام، ثم بعث الله عليهم ريحا ومطرا فجر بهم إلى البحر وما بقي مسخ بعد ثلاثة أيام، وأما التي ترون من هذه المصورات بصورها فإنما هي أشباهها لاهي بأعيانها ولا من نسلها.
 

وروى الصدوق في العلل بإسناده عن عبد الله بن الفضل قال: قلت لأبي عبد الله عليه السلام قول الله عز وجل " ولقد علمتم الذين اعتدوا منكم في السبت فقلنا لهم كونوا قردة خاسئين " قال: إن أولئك مسخوا ثلاثة أيام، ثم ماتوا ولم يتناسلوا، وإن القردة اليوم مثل أولئك، وكذلك الخنزير وسائر المسوخ ما وجد منها اليوم من شئ فهو مثله، لا يحل أن يؤكل لحمه (1) (الخبر).
 

وروى في العيون بإسناده عن علي بن محمد بن الجهم قال: سمعت المأمون يسأل الرضا عليه السلام عما يرويه الناس من أمر الزهرة، وأنها كانت امرأة فتن بها هاروت وماروت، وما يروونه من أمر سهيل: أنه كان عشارا باليمن. فقال عليه السلام: كذبوا في قولهم أنهما كوكبان، وإنهما كانتا دابتين من دواب البحر، فغلط الناس وظنوا أنهما الكوكبان، وما كان الله ليمسخ أعداءه أنوارا مضيئة، ثم يبقيهما ما بقيت السماء والأرض، وإن المسوخ لم يبق أكثر من ثلاثة أيام حتى ماتت، وما تناسل منها شئ، وما على وجه الأرض اليوم مسخ، وإن التي وقعت عليها اسم المسوخية مثل القرد والخنزير والدب وأشباهها، إنما هي مثل ما مسخ الله عز وجل على صورها قوما غضب الله عليهم ولعنهم، بإنكارهم توحيد الله وتكذيبهم رسله (الخبر) (2).
 

أقول: فقد ثبت بهذه الاخبار أن هذه الحيوانات ليست من نسل هؤلاء المسوخ ولا من نوعهم، وإنما هي على صورهم. وقد عرفت أن المسخ ليس تناسخا، لان الروح لم ينتقل إلى بدن آخر، وإنما تغيرت صورة البدن، وأما التناسخ بمعنى انتقال

It is apparently an error to assume that there were no monkeys on the earth before the time of Prophet Musa (peace be upon him). There certainly were monkeys long before then - in Africa, Asia, North America, South America, Europe, Australia and so on. The few who were transformed into monkeys in Israel (in the Middle East) died three days later without producing any (monkey) offspring, as the hadiths (and also science) confirm. Moreover, as the second hadith above shows, the monkeys and pigs and others today have absolutely no link with the transformed humans of the past.

Thank you brother, may Allah accept your deeds for these beautiful findings.

But what do you think of the sahih hadith which says that pigs, monkeys, lizards etc... are haram because Allah transformed humans into them? 

Edited by The Batman
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17 minutes ago, The Batman said:

Thank you brother, may Allah accept your deeds for these beautiful findings.

But what do you think of the sahih hadith which says that pigs, monkeys, lizards etc... are haram because Allah transformed humans into them? 

According to a sahih hadith of Imam al-Rida (peace be upon him), any hadith that contradicts the Qur'an, or contradicts reality, is a fabrication.

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24 minutes ago, أبو فاطمة المحمدي said:

According to a sahih hadith of Imam al-Rida (peace be upon him), any hadith that contradicts the Qur'an, or contradicts reality, is a fabrication.

How does it contradict reality though? It never said that these animals were only created a few thousand years ago, did it?

I would love to see the content of the hadith in full.

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