Jump to content
In the Name of God بسم الله

Proof of evolution that you can find on your body


Recommended Posts

The vomeronasal organ (VNO) is a pair of pit-like structures in the upper part of the inside of the nose. In many mammals, this is a sensory organ that is used to detect pheromones (chemical signals that trigger behavioral responses such as reproductive responses). While the chemosensory role of this organ is fairly well established in mammals such as mice, the exact function for humans has been more elusive. While it is expected to serve a sensory function, it appears to lack neurons that connect it to the brain. Still, during fetal development, there is a neuroepithelium that is present. Witt and colleagues performed a careful study of the organ and observed an organized and highly differentiated structure. A new study has also revealed that human vomeronasal receptors are operational, although they appear to operate with different intracellular messengers than those in mice. Therefore, the possibility remains that there is a unique function for the human vomeronasal cavity which is distinct from other mammals.

The second vestigial organ on the New Scientist list of vestigial organs is goosebumps. In many animals, this reflex that causes hair to stand erect is used to generate warmth. It can also make the animal appear larger as happens when a cat’s fur stands on end when it is frightened. Goosebumps are a natural response to cold or high emotions. There is nothing really wrong or dysfunctional about the small erector pilli muscles that cause the bulge of skin as the hair stands erect.

The classification of goosebumps as a vestigial organ stems from a revised definition of vestigial. According to the New Scientist article, it is not necessary to be completely functionless. If an organ or response is reduced compared to its ancestral version or takes a slightly different form, it can be considered vestigial. Under the revised definition, because human hair is “puny” and the thermoregulatory impact reduced, goosebumps can be considered vestigial.

Once again, this example must assume that humans share a common ancestor with animals in order for goosebumps to be considered vestigial. In this case, there is no evidence that the goosebump response has been reduced from that of our human ancestors.

The third organ on the list requires tortured logic to be considered vestigial. Darwin’s point is “thought to be a vestige of a joint that allowed the top part of the ancestral ear to swivel or flop down over the opening of the ear”. Actually, it is a harmless congenital defect that results from a malformation as the ear folds during early development. Darwin’s point is found in about 10% of humans.

In the New Scientist article, the rationale given for its vestigial status is the observation that it is inherited as an autosomal dominant trait. Autosomal dominant traits will be expressed if an individual inherits the gene from even one parent. Since Darwin’s point is a dominant trait this is supposed to imply that it was useful. Additionally, it shows incomplete penetration which means that not all individuals that have the gene will express the trait. The incomplete penetration is supposed to mean that it has since lost its functional role.

Here, the evidence is being selectively lined up to imply that the structure is a vestigial organ. The logic does not follow. Autosomal dominance does not itself convey usefulness to the traits involved. There are plenty of autosomal dominant traits that are not useful. These would include Huntington’s disease and polydactylism (extra fingers or toes). Both these and other traits can be inherited and expressed with a single copy of the gene. There are also many traits that can be dominant with no benefit such as brown eyes or widow’s peak.

The tailbone or coccyx has often been presumed to be vestigial and a leftover remnant to our alleged mammal and reptilian ancestors who also had tails. Evidence that is cited includes the variable number of bony segments humans can have (usually 4 but can be 3 or 5) as well as “babies born with tails.” But these so called tails are not really tails at all and instead are a type of fatty tumor. There are no bones or muscles in them at all, and thus, it cannot truly be considered a vestigial organ.

Spinney acknowledges that the coccyx now has a “modified function, notably as an anchor point for the muscles that hold the anus in place.” In fact, the coccyx is the anchor point for the muscles that form the entire pelvic diaphragm. Therefore, while the coccyx has a clear function in humans today, the only reason to claim that the function has been modified is because of evolutionary assumptions. If you believe that humans descended from animals that possessed tails, then there must have been a modification of the tailbone. In contrast, if our ancestor Adam was created by God then there was no modification, and our tailbone is just as it always was. Without the evolutionary presupposition, the evidence that the tailbone is vestigial evaporates.

The last vestigial organ on the list of “Five Things that Humans Don’t Need” are the wisdom teeth. This is a third set of molars that erupt last. Because of crowding, the wisdom teeth often become impacted and must be removed to avoid complications. Nonetheless there are many people whose wisdom teeth erupt without incident. For those who must have the wisdom teeth pulled, there is little loss. The New Scientist article notes that ~35% of people do not develop wisdom teeth. If this is correct, it is an example of a loss of information, the opposite of what molecules-to-man evolution requires. It does not provide evidence that wisdom teeth are not beneficial. The New Scientist article notes that ~35% of people do not develop wisdom teeth. If this is correct, it is an example of a loss of information, the opposite of what molecules-to-man evolution requires. It does not provide evidence that wisdom teeth are not beneficial.

Wisdom teeth are not vestigial and are functional in those individuals that have them and the jaw to accommodate them.They provide another example of deterioration and loss of information.One of the reasons that they are problematic is the decreased jaw size of many people today which can be related to diet.

Edited by HumanForLife
Link to comment
Share on other sites

evolution by natural selection seems a pretty decent theory based on current scientific knowledge, and (at the moment) doesn't contradict anything within Islam. please bear in mind that the quran is silent about almost everything to do with science, and when Darwin first proposed his theory, the majority of Muslim scientists at the time accepted it. 

leave the anti science wackiness to white american Christians from the south who believe that the earth is 6000 years old and dinosaur fossils were placed here by the devil to test our faith. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

evolution by natural selection seems a pretty decent theory based on current scientific knowledge, and (at the moment) doesn't contradict anything within Islam. please bear in mind that the quran is silent about almost everything to do with science, and when Darwin first proposed his theory, the majority of Muslim scientists at the time accepted it. 

leave the anti science wackiness to white american Christians from the south who believe that the earth is 6000 years old and dinosaur fossils were placed here by the devil to test our faith. 

No problem :) I just wanted a place to post a comment about the video.

I didn't want to put it in the youtube comments because ......... uuuuugh.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Veteran Member

The problem with Darwinists is that they are the usual, close minded folks and instead of answering questions wherever it falls short they expect you to take it on faith just like any other organized religion. Or they will keep going in circles with their arguments like the Catholics. Their belief is just as pigeon holed and resting on theories while their centuries old thing doesn't reconcile with too many things even now.

Oooh we found a millenias old skull and it looks like Ron Perlman's so lets create a neanderthal out of it. And this extra small Chinese guy skull, lets make a early chimp-man creature out of it. And this, this Kim Jong skull is the missing link! All done.

Boring. Same old tricks of wicked men. Meanwhile science is changing rapidly as it moves forward whenever given the chance. For instance about two weeks ago they found some result at CERN which invalidates quantum physics as it existed. Our governments and corporations are always focusing R&D on weapons and capitalistic economy, only things that give them more money / power. So actually the condition the science which is beneficial to mankind is in and its snail paced progress is actually quite pathetic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Veteran Member

@-justbrowsing, there is more evidence for evolution than there is against it.  Paleontology, microbiology, and many other scientific disciplines all affirm it.  It's the basis for advances in modern medicine and science.

 Evolution does not preclude Allah (SWT) nor our beliefs as Muslims.  It only means Allah created man gradually.  He remains the source of creation.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Renaissance_Man said:

@-justbrowsing, there is more evidence for evolution than there is against it.  Paleontology, microbiology, and many other scientific disciplines all affirm it.  It's the basis for advances in modern medicine and science.

 Evolution does not preclude Allah (SWT) nor our beliefs as Muslims.  It only means Allah created man gradually.  He remains the source of creation.  

There is more to it then that. We can learn a lot from it religiously. Evolution actually manifest something very important about the relationship between God and humanity. How did our morals develop and increase? How did our concept of praise get more sophisticated?

This shows sometimes aside from our own freewill, our knowledge of good and evil and the greater it is, and the greater and more advance our concept of praise, the better humanity prospered.

Yet we see humanity without a present manifest guidance today and it's a mess. This shows there were guides guiding humanity through out time in which people with greater means of understanding them and their teachings, prospered more.

If they rejected the guides and were causing oppression and corruption in the earth, then they were destroyed eventually. This is the course of humanity. 

That is not to say people of lesser genes could not be good willed, it's just there is levels of sophistication of understanding wisdom. This is perhaps one meaning in that Talut was better in body as well. The Prophets were always of superior genes, and who they mixed into would get more populated eventually, one reason being due to their link to the Prophets.

Eventually Adam's genes were funnelled in a sense we all link back to him today. There is got to be a lesson in all this.

Now our potential is hidden. We have some many gifts but we are corrupting it.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, StrugglingForTheLight said:

That is not to say people of lesser genes could not be good willed, it's just there is levels of sophistication of understanding wisdom. This is perhaps one meaning in that Talut was better in body as well. The Prophets were always of superior genes, and who they mixed into would get more populated eventually, one reason being due to their link to the Prophets.

what do you mean by genes ? 

how are prophets (or imams) genes superior than other humans ? :confused:

why can I never understand what your trying to say, its very irritating. :( 

Edited by HumanForLife
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@justbrowsing  JFYI I am a B.Sc. (hons) graduated scientist from one of the top 5 universities in Great Britain with a specialism in genetics and parasitology. I am the most highly qualified person in this thread. please go ahead and tell me about your qualifications that make you feel you know more than me about genetics. 

if evolution doesn't exist, why can we watch it happening in antibiotic resistant bacteria? or virus that change their coating to avoid antibodies of the host?

there are many gaps in the theory - I do not believe for example that it can cause one species to become/ create another species in higher order organisms, however within an already formed species it seems pretty evident. 

once again - it does not go against islam, because islam does not talk about it. stop confusing islam with christians who think the earth is 6000 years old. 

 

Edited by DigitalUmmah
Link to comment
Share on other sites

ok lets get this joke of a discussion started.

7 hours ago, justbrowsing said:

and yes evolution has everything in opposite to Islam 

Adam(PBUH) was created whole, so was his partner Hawa 

let me start with an easy question.

do you believe that DNA exists?

I ask because DNA is the proof of evolution.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, justbrowsing said:

do you believe that the Quran is from Allah? do you believe in the Prophet, do you believe in Allah? do you believe in Ahlul Bayt?

i think your a closet Atheist

I have twice asked you a rather simple question. 

I believe that the quran is from Allah. I believe in the prophet, I believe in Allah. I believe in the Ahlulbayt. I am not a closet atheist. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

wow. even for an anti science fundie....to have fled after the first question is pretty weak. 

if you had any aql at all you would ask me why I remain a shia & a muslim after studying genetics/ evolution to a university degree level, and I would have replied with a hundred scientific proofs that show things do not contradict with islam at all. but instead you did takfir on me. imbeciles like you are no different to flat earthers who think that any sort of scientific discovery is a slap in allahs face

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It has been proven scientifically that all people are descended from one common ancestor, and the scientists today call the most recent patrilineal one Y-MRCA or Y-Chromosome Adam, and the matrilineal mt-MRCA or Mitochondrial Eve.

Not only humans who are descended from one common ancestor, all species in general evolved from a single cell that lived in WATER 3.5 billion years,

"Do the unbelievers not realize that the heaven and the earth used to be one solid mass that we exploded into existence? And from water we made all living things. Would they believe?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, justbrowsing said:

and what where the angels bowing down to? a pair of cells that cant be even seen with the human eye? and what did the Devil refuse to bown down to? and how did this Adam who was supposed to be according to you a single cell, manage to talk and respond and hear and listen and talk etc and how did he have children Abil and Cabil? and how did one kill the other, and how did he pray for forgiveness ? 

Scientific evidence indicates that humans gradually evolved, maybe we are not interpreting the adam and eve story right.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators
On 3/18/2016 at 1:08 PM, Enlightened Follower said:

One has to ask if evolution can occur why hasn't devolution occur or backwards evolution it just seems some what strange to me.

You sure it hasn't? Our bones are less dense now than they were 200 years ago. People with chronic health problems live long lives and have children. Physical health is less important now that we have technology. 

 

Denial of science is contrary to Islam: seek knowledge even as far away as China. Take knowledge even from the hypocrites. (Pardon my paraphrases.)

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, The Batman said:

I am not denying anything. But I would like to see how some brothers believe evolution does not contradict the story of Prophet Adam [AS].

because it doesn't. most people do not even know what evolution is - they think evolution is the belief that one day monkeys became humans. this is simply not what evolution is saying. 

from an academic point of view - evolution is when some sort of changes somehow give an organism a slightly better chance at survival compared to its competition. this is observable, measurable and provable. I myself in my first year of uni triggered evolution in a batch of e coli bacteria to make them completely immune to antibiotics. 

when I talk about evolution - I am talking specifically about this. 

a lot of the time there isnt even a change in the DNA - for example before the industrial revolution black moths stood out against light surfaces so were easily hunted by predators. after the industrial revolution when smog and pollution covered all surfaces, the black moths were better hidden and white moths stood out, meaning the numbers were reversed. 

this is evolution by natural selection. 

evolution does not have all the answers by any means - there are questions which evolution can not answer, like for example how primates have a double circulatory system while fish have gills and amphibians breathe through their skin. there is no intermediary species observed that can explain this, while there was no room for a double circulatory system to gradually evolve - it has to work perfectly from the start, or death occurs in seconds. 

my personal theory is that evolution occurs in already existing species, but is not the cause of creation for those species, or a "base line" number of species were created, and evolution occurred from that point forwards. 

shall I write a blog post about this?

 

 

Edited by DigitalUmmah
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

because it doesn't. most people do not even know what evolution is - they think evolution is the belief that one day monkeys became humans. this is simply not what evolution is saying. 

from an academic point of view - evolution is when some sort of changes somehow give an organism a slightly better chance at survival compared to its competition. this is observable, measurable and provable. I myself in my first year of uni triggered evolution in a batch of e coli bacteria to make them completely immune to antibiotics. 

when I talk about evolution - I am talking specifically about this. 

a lot of the time there isnt even a change in the DNA - for example before the industrial revolution black moths stood out against light surfaces so were easily hunted by predators. after the industrial revolution when smog and pollution covered all surfaces, the black moths were better hidden and white moths stood out, meaning the numbers were reversed. 

this is evolution by natural selection. 

evolution does not have all the answers by any means - there are questions which evolution can not answer, like for example how primates have a double circulatory system while fish have gills and amphibians breathe through their skin. there is no intermediary species observed that can explain this, while there was no room for a double circulatory system to gradually evolve - it has to work perfectly from the start, or death occurs in seconds. 

my personal theory is that evolution occurs in already existing species, but is not the cause of creation for those species, or a "base line" number of species were created, and evolution occurred from that point forwards. 

shall I write a blog post about this?

 

 

I have no problem at all with other animals evolving. I am speaking about human evolution specifically.

You should write a blog post. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators
5 minutes ago, The Batman said:

I have no problem at all with other animals evolving. I am speaking about human evolution specifically.

You should write a blog post. 

Humans have evolved. Consider lactose tolerance in adults, especially adults of European ancestry.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators
11 minutes ago, The Batman said:

I mean evolved from non-human to human. How does that not contradict the story of Prophet Adam [AS]?

There is scientific evidence which supports the belief that modern humans and apes evolved from a common ancestor, but it isn't certain. If it is proven to be true, I would assume that either there were proto-human human-like beings when Adam and Hawwa were created and these proto-humans later became extinct (outcompeted by humans?) Or they were sent down from Paradise as souls into proto-humans and that is when those bodies became human. I'm just guessing. We may never know in this life, but we can try. If your faith can be shaken by science, your problem is not science, but a lack of faith.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

I have been looking into this quite alot in the last couple of days and thanks to some people on this forum, Enlightened Follower is one of them,

The Quran is not a science book so you need science to explain it and this is what iv'e found:

Allah says he created adam in stages,

Allah also blows into Adam of his own spirit. 

Now if we look at Evolution the story of Adam and Eve does work because, Allah when he raises people the spirit is raised not the Body, the human was being evolved, Allah never specifically said he will create Adam immediately, the same way Allah created the Earth, He didnt create it immediately it took time, likewise we cannot create something immediately we take time but we do claim that we say we created it. 

So when the angels prostrated and such this was to the spirit Adam and when ready, Allah may have sent down the spirit of Adam. Now as to what happened? Nobody knows exactly. This is why Islam isn't here to teach us science however so far the way Islam views things does not contradict real life, as we see ourselves Allah does not raise physical bodies to Heaven and so he does not need to send down physical bodies either, merely spirits.

If there's one thing iv'e learnt when studying Islam, is that interpretations, Marja'as all of them can be wrong, the Quran does not dish out random scientifical facts, it merely gives guidelines. If it was giving scientific miracles in everything it says according to the first interpretations we make (not saying there aren't) then we wouldnt need to research.

Edited by HayderM
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Houral Ain are created for paradise without this trial on earth. Any honest reading of Quran in my opinion, and you will see Adam was originally created for paradise without this trial. However he was tried with respect to the tree in which it took out of the state 

Adam may have been a sign on earth, that he descended from paradise, to mortals, and he was to lead them and guide them, and represent God and rule on his behalf, instead of the first human.

Eventually his genes got funnelled and we eventually all became of his descendants.

I don't see any contradiction between evolution and Islam in this sense. There is perhaps more fossil evidence for proof that humans evolved then any other mammal on earth.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, The Batman said:

I mean evolved from non-human to human. How does that not contradict the story of Prophet Adam [AS]?

no. evolution in terms of origin of species regarding man is unproven. the further back you go, the less evidence there is. 

what you are describing is consciousness. this is what separates us from the animals. 

biologically, as mentioned by @notme the proto humans have a fairly strong case as having existed at some point in our history. it isn't a contradiction in islam to believe for example that hazrat Adam (as) was the first of them to have been given a consciousness by Allah, or that Allah sent him fully formed and separate to them, to be among the proto humans, or anything else already described in this thread. 

it is our belief that there were 10,000 "adams" before Adam (as). maybe our beliefs in this context are not too far away from the theory of evolution?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...