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yasahebalzaman.313

What's wrong with the shias?

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I've said this a few hundred times offline and online, and I'll say it again: We are Muwaleen. The Shias are very few. If all the people who call themselves Shia truly are, the Imam عجل الله فرجه الشريف would have reappeared ages ago.

It is an individual matter in all of humanity that does this division; some have it more eminent than others. It's called: ego. The people you are speaking of, unfortunately, never realised that all the Maraji' have stated that they are not perfect and can make mistakes.

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OP the issue here is that all subsets of people are going to rally around a central symbol and argue their superiority, you see it in every tribe, every group, every race, every time period, every place on earth.

some rally around their sports teams, others their religion, others their jobs, others their wealth and so on. 

shia are no different to other people in that our tribal symbols have become our marjas. its a real shame but not really that different to what other people do. the best way to think of shias is that we are humans like everyone else, with strengths and weaknesses like everyone else. its better to not have expectations that just because we have the greatest faith of all people, we are somehow immune from insecurity, pack mentality and superiority complexes. 

if this wasnt a big enough mess, there are also genuine grievances on all sides. for example the followers of the shirazis have a legitimate beef with the followers of sayed khamenei on account of the followers of sayed khamenei stealing the body of sayed muhammad shirazi during his own janaza and burying him alone without his family or without his families permission. the fact that he was buried within the walls of the shrine of Masuma Qum (sa) are irrelevant as it was done without permission. 

on the flip side, the followers of sayed khamanei seem to have beef with everyone else in the world. bear in mind they believe that the wilayat of sayed khamenei is the same as the wilayat of a Masum Imam (as), so anyone disagreeing with sayed khamenei is literally disagreeing with a hukm of a masum. how would shias react if someone said they knew better than a direct order from lets say Imam Ali (as)? 

think I am finished? well I am not

now remember shia are just as racist as everyone else. so many shia prefer marjas because the marja is the same race as them, and a lot of their superiority comes from hidden racism, 

basically: be grateful you knew the faith before you knew the faithful

 

 

 

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@DigitalUmmah Lol these accidents you stated above are funny and disappointing. You are right, islam is perfection, but people ruin it. Every community has its own flaws and so does the shias, i'm afraid i should accept the bitter reality. 

But some things are unacceptable, like these people who consider sayed khamenei like the wilaya of a maasoum, like really? i didnt know that! All the marajii are the same, they just differ a little in their judgments. Some people need to grow up and start acknowledging what really matters and face the reality away from delusion.

Edited by yasahebalzaman.313

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[18:54] We have cited in this Quran every kind of example, but the human being is the most argumentative creature.

Think about it. Have you ever been to a restaurant with a "halal" sign and hear customers question the owner where they get their meat?

Yet, we would eat the backs of our brothers and sisters without hesitation.

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Dear brother - Do not fret over the little minds who keep doing back biting of one marja over the other, being in favor of one at the expense of other. These little minds exist among laymen like you and I and also among scholars who one would expect know better.

I call them attention seekers, and nothing more. These are the people you invite for a dinner, and after eating the 5 dishes, they will go out complaining how cold the water was or how hot the tea is!! They will find oddest fatwa which are not even applicable for today's environment, and be complaining over one or the other aspect of it.

I mostly shun these people as soon as they start. My approach to them is mostly very harsh in a very diplomatic way, its best to muffle them as soon as they open their mouth about these things, otherwise negative unfortunately is contagious and their poison spreads to others in no time. They are like a fly who leaves the rest of the 99% of the clean areas and lands only on the perceived ugliness. I do not entertain them by listening to them; mostly the first discouragement call they get, they stop their negative rant, because it hits where it hurts them most, their popularity quest among people through portraying all knowing about the so called politics of Howza etc.

All in all, let the dogs bark, you keep moving on in the path of Allah swt. 

 

 

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- أخبرنا أحمد بن محمد بن سعيد قال: حدثنا القاسم بن محمد بن الحسن بن حازم، قال: حدثنا عبيس بن هشام، عن عبد الله بن جبلة، عن مسكين الرحال عن علي بن أبي المغيرة، عن عميرة بنت نفيل قالت: سمعت الحسين بن علي يقول:

لا يكون الأمر الذي تنتظرونه حتى يبرأ بعضكم من بعض ويتفل بعضكم في وجوه بعض ويشهد بعضكم على بعض بالكفر، ويلعن بعضكم بعضاً.

فقلت له: ما في ذلك الزمان من خير.

فقال الحسين: الخير كله في ذلك الزمان، يقوم قائمنا، ويدفع ذلك كله.

Ahmad bin Muhammad bin Sa'eed narrated from al-Qassim bin Muhammad bin al-Hasan bin Hazim from Obayss bin Hisham from Abdullah bin Jibilla from Miskeen ar-Rahhal from Ali bin Abul Mugheera that Omayra bint Nufayl had said:

“I heard al-Husayn bin Ali (as) saying: “The matter that you are expecting will not occur until a time comes that you disavow each other, spit at the face of each other, declare unbelief against each other and curse each other.”

I said to him: “There will be no goodness in that time!”

He said: “All the goodness will be in that time. Our Qa’im will rise and do away with all of that.”

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We must understand that there is some kind of conflict in fatwa between all Marajy / Ayatullahs. But we must also understand that those conflict are just educational base not ignorant. Its Islamic research, 1 Ayatullah done research and comes to 1 result while other Ayatullah done research and comes to another result therefore these differences creates....but therefore is no conflict in Halal and Haram.

It is just like a group of students and their teacher give them an assignment that do research on DNA and these students will comes on different results because every student has their own point of view and method of research and their observation would be different.

Similarly if a teacher says their students that write on essay on "Imam Hussain (a.s.)" then every all students will not write the same essay. Every student describes different virtues because their observations and their research is different.

We just research, think and then follow a Mujtahid then forget about what other Mujtahid says or not.

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I have been a "member" of few sects already from wahabi to... you name it, and i can tell you that the problem you describe is in every sect. In fact your complaint about it, is the exact same complaint i have heard in all the other groups. There is always few people who say "Why can't we just unite". The issues that tend to cause divisions arguments and inner fights are exactly the same in all groups. There is so much similarities that had this not been a matter of religion i would urge everyone to consider becoming a member of another sect, undercover, until he/she forms relationships and gets to know the group and live among them, and see for themselves how similar the footsteps of shaytan that are dividing the ummah are. 

The sickness is called "madhhab fever". It exists in every madhhab. Major symptoms include a rapidly shrinking circle of "ahle jannah" in which only they are part of, and a very fast expanding circle of "ahle naarr", for those who don't share their point of view. Minor symptoms include not returning salaam because of differences, not speaking to each other because differences, arguing about which marjai shaykh ulama is better and who is a munafiq or a kaffir, or a batri, and a bakri. What fatwa is correct and what fatwa comes from a "jahili or a zindiq" and many more.

The cure is less madhhab and more Islam. But this is easier said then done. As long as we continue to treat the madhhabs the way we do we will never unite not just with different sects but among ourselves as well. 

 

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there are a lot of poor analogies in this thread. 

we do have a right to question certain things with regard to our fiqh - with respect of course and with an intention of better understanding. 

there 100% are certain rulings which need to be discussed, rulings where one marja says something is halal, and another says that same thing is haram. which do we follow? do we not need to use some of our own intellect in these matters?

another example, if a marja says that it is halal for a man to allow another mans sperm to impregnate his wife, is this not something which needs to be questioned?

remember: the quran says clearly that no soul will bear the burden of another on qiyamat, so its simply not good enough to say "if the marja has made the haram halal its ok for me to do". this will always be the flaw in complete submission to the rulings of a non masum. 

there is a difference between referring to marjas for matters we do not know (as all hadith state), and unquestioning obedience to all fatwas from your marja for the majority of your/ his life, to the point where you believe that your amaal are not accepted unless you follow this "1 marja only" ruling thats only around 200 years old anyway

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@A175 This verse is very interesting, as I'm proceeding in this religion i realize that through the Quran you can understand everything, every detail of this journey. These humans who likes to debate on and on without benefiting what so ever of the whole thing have mental issues, they lack of affection and attention. But i'm sad to see they are the cause of affliction nowadays, you know.. people from us, shias, as you said our brothers and sisters. It makes me sad really.

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@Irfani313 Should I tell you that I'm a Sister :D ? hehe. You said it all!! They are nothing but some attention seekers, if they are left 1 minute in the shoes of our marajii' they would collapse, my point is most of these people in most cases don't even know what they are talking about, which is worse. If you look to their actions you see them listening to music doing small acts of haram not even praying salat al fajr on time and yet they cry over ahlulbayt(as) and for the reappearance of imam al mahdi. They are too dull to realize how dangerous their state of mind is.

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I see your points brothers and sisters, I was wishing to get to know more the source of this issue and you've been all helpful.

A shia, brother/sister should just make a research about the marjaa he/she wishes to follow by checking his accomplishments and his fatawa along with others that might differ. Then follow whom ever you see wiser or so. That is how i chose my marjaa and I MOVED ON. I wouldn't degrade my status and engage in such silly debates. But of course we can always question the differentiation of some fatawa we are following for a better understanding as our brother stated above.

The whole matter is simple, but some silly minded people like to be the source of a fitna nowadays, unfortunately. 

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1 hour ago, yasahebalzaman.313 said:

@A175 This verse is very interesting, as I'm proceeding in this religion i realize that through the Quran you can understand everything, every detail of this journey. These humans who likes to debate on and on without benefiting what so ever of the whole thing have mental issues, they lack of affection and attention. But i'm sad to see they are the cause of affliction nowadays, you know.. people from us, shias, as you said our brothers and sisters. It makes me sad really.

It took several years for me to understand that.

My initial quest to learn about Islam was an attempt to refute it. Once I was faced with sobriety, and therefore clarity, I began to see Islam as a path to follow rather than reject. Even then, however, I was following the Salafi ideology. I eventually adopted the fiqh of Imam Malik in an effort to distance myself from the Salafis... and as we know, Malik leads to Ja'afar. I am still learning/unlearning, but I've noticed that infighting is the common denominator.

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1 hour ago, A175 said:

My initial quest to learn about Islam was an attempt to refute it.

That must've been exciting! Did you think for a while that your mind is tricking you, having these enormous doubts and that this can't be happening... that you will eventually become a muslim! That was one of the stages that i passed through my conversion process. God surely has the strangest ways in guiding people. People like you and me have been worthy of this gift and we should make the most of it, cherishing it and defending it.

However the infighting subjects differ from one another, and i see this marajaa debating thing is one of the shallowest. At least let us dispute over something that helps us evolve religiously and proceed mentally... but no they want to take this to the lowest levels of intelligence.

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It was more excruciating than exciting, I'd say.

It's hard to walk away from what you believe is keeping you out of hell and into heaven.

As far as the dunya-

If you want to lose friends (well with the crowd I had been associated with) tell them you're Muslim. If you want to make enemies, tell your Muslim friends that you've become Shia. While I did not practice it, I developed an understanding and appreciation of taqqiya.

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@A175 May I ask if you're still not practicing? Truth is everyone can be convinced of Islam because it's logic itself, but not everyone has enough mental strengths to obey and commit.

I'm a 24 yr old christian women who had her life in front of her, I lost everything when i converted to islam and started practicing. I was so scared and alone it was really hard to let go of what you love and what you had in order to commit religiously and proceed in your religion. At some point i had to let go of some things that were not haram but there was a risk that i'd fall into haram, for ex. my friends knew im a muslim but they like drink all the time and most of them were men, or some activities i love doing and i had to let go, etc... I will soon lose my family most probably they'll like disown me at first when they'll know cause i live in a more of a traditional country... but i don't care cause i know i got God right beside me.

Truth is you should lose your dunya for your hereafter and to make your Lord proud. The equation is simple, as much as you give God as much as He in return will give you. It's true i sacrificed everything i had (and so did you maybe) but in return i gained satisfaction, security, and peace of mind.. and of course i gained some materialistic stability that i didn't had before. And i can't wait for what's next.

If you lost your friends cause of islam meaning they were Never your friends... At some point we have to be alone to get in touch with our Lord and understand that He is always watching over us, this ultimate being that would never leave us alone no matter what.

And i understand what you mean when you mentioned ''understanding and appreciation for taqqiya''. right now i can't pray salat al fajr on time cause of my situation at home, i tried before but it was too risky, so meanwhile i'm developing a huge admiration of salat al fajr and i made a decision as i'm proceeding that i won't ever miss it in my entire life from the moment that i'll be able to start praying it.

I guess we, converts, pass through many same situations and state of mind.

Edited by yasahebalzaman.313

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Yes.

Still practicing and learning. I've only followed the Shia path for a few months, but have been a Muslim since June 2013.

You are absolutely correct about losing the dunya. What's more, sometimes that loss is so painful that you have nothing except the akhira to hope for.

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