Tribalism rant/question

[A175]

My apologies if this has been covered before, but I'm looking for some perspective.

I'm a revert. Standard white American dude with limited experience regarding attitudes between different Arab and Asian cultures in my new home. Just from the outside looking in, it seems that tribalism is alive and well.

One of the things that drew me to Islam initially was the ideas of social justice and ethnic equality. The abolishment of racism and all that. So it was a bit shocking to hear that a Muslim's parents would disown their child if they brought someone that wasn't from their "group" (ethnic origin, nationality, even down to the village, etc) as consideration for a potential spouse, or reject the suitor because of that difference.

I'm not saying that it's a rare thing in the world, or in America. It just kind of put me in a funk, considering how often I hear Muslims talk about racism and discrimination.

From the members here, I would assume your own individual experiences vary depending on your location and your family, but I'll ask anyway. How often do you see culture eclipse religion in domestic matters?

[zainabamy]

Assalam aleikum,

I completely agree with you, all too often in the Muslim community people have mixed culture in with religion and it is so sad. For example, I have watched videos on You Tube of black men and women accepting Islam and being discriminated against in the mosque. For example, one man went to a mosque and the caretaker kept calling him Bilal when he clearly said his name was Hussain. Astafiruallah! It makes me wonder if some Muslims know anything about our Prophet (sawa) at all.

And in a similiar way, I was discriminated at certain mosques because I was English and a woman and that really hit me hard. But al hamdulilah, not all Muslims are like that. There are plenty of mosques who are welcoming to everyone whether they only have South Asian people attending or a mix of cultures. 2 weeks ago for example I went to my new mosque and I was the only English person there but al hamdulilah every sister was so lovely and made me feel so welcome.

So don't let it get you down. Its definitely a problem that the community needs to address but thankfully there are plenty of Muslims who follow the Sunnah.  

[Skanderbeg]

Mosques nowadays are too much culturally divided.

The language of the country of residence itself should be the first language however.

That's the first step because when I visit a Turkish mosque in Germany for examle and being a converted german then in what way will the visit benefit me except for praying in the mosque?

Edited February 27, 2016 by Skanderbeg

[Son of Placid]

In Calgary the majority of Muslims are Ismaili and very tolerant of their own, Christians, Jews and kafir, but not so much the Sunni and Sikhs. The Sunni are a different brand. They even look at you different. I know a girl who married a Sunni and did everything she could to please him and his Mosque (including Muslim dress and hijab), but to no avail. When the Mosque did not accept her the beatings started. She is now legally divorced, but not by their standards. 

That is my only bad example. 

[Skanderbeg]

2 minutes ago, Son of Placid said:

In Calgary the majority of Muslims are Ismaili and very tolerant of their own, Christians, Jews and kafir, but not so much the Sunni and Sikhs. The Sunni are a different brand. They even look at you different. I know a girl who married a Sunni and did everything she could to please him and his Mosque (including Muslim dress and hijab), but to no avail. When the Mosque did not accept her the beatings started. She is now legally divorced, but not by their standards. 

That is my only bad example. 

What was her religion/sect?

[A175]

Kind of my point.

I just relocated, and I was so excited to be able to be a part of a more agreeable community and escape the blatant hatred of where I was coming from.

Lesson learned- it exists everywhere 

[A175]

27 minutes ago, zainabamy said:

Assalam aleikum,

I completely agree with you, all too often in the Muslim community people have mixed culture in with religion and it is so sad. For example, I have watched videos on You Tube of black men and women accepting Islam and being discriminated against in the mosque. For example, one man went to a mosque and the caretaker kept calling him Bilal when he clearly said his name was Hussain. Astafiruallah! It makes me wonder if some Muslims know anything about our Prophet (sawa) at all.

And in a similiar way, I was discriminated at certain mosques because I was English and a woman and that really hit me hard. But al hamdulilah, not all Muslims are like that. There are plenty of mosques who are welcoming to everyone whether they only have South Asian people attending or a mix of cultures. 2 weeks ago for example I went to my new mosque and I was the only English person there but al hamdulilah every sister was so lovely and made me feel so welcome.

So don't let it get you down. Its definitely a problem that the community needs to address but thankfully there are plenty of Muslims who follow the Sunnah.  

I was honestly surprised by that. If the person's parents want their suitor to be from a certain village/ethnicity, it seems like for some people there's no way around it.

I think what surprised me the most was that it's here in America.

[Son of Placid]

30 minutes ago, Skanderbeg said:

What was her religion/sect?

Tall, white and gorgeous. 

We talked about it a few times, (before and after). Actually she was leaning towards Christianity, but young and open to religion. He could have had an awesome wife.

[Skanderbeg]

2 minutes ago, Son of Placid said:

Tall, white and gorgeous. 

We talked about it a few times, (before and after). Actually she was leaning towards Christianity, but young and open to religion. He could have had an awesome wife.

Did she convert or wasn't that enough?

[Son of Placid]

She did convert but that wasn't enough. She is a sweetheart and a pleasure to be around. Maybe that was the problem.

[zainabamy]

2 minutes ago, Son of Placid said:

She did convert but that wasn't enough. She is a sweetheart and a pleasure to be around. Maybe that was the problem.

It astounds me how many times I've seen good and honest people being hurt by complete jerks for no good reason. The guy's ego must have been hurt when his friends at the mosque didn't approve. It literally does not make any sense to me. 

[Son of Placid]

6 minutes ago, zainabamy said:

It astounds me how many times I've seen good and honest people being hurt by complete jerks for no good reason. The guy's ego must have been hurt when his friends at the mosque didn't approve. It literally does not make any sense to me. 

The dude was a suit with a BMW. Appearance was everything to him. I met him previous, but not after. Good thing. Don't go beating on women around me.

[zainabamy]

2 minutes ago, Son of Placid said:

The dude was a suit with a BMW. Appearance was everything to him. I met him previous, but not after. Good thing. Don't go beating on women around me.

Yeah definitely. I had an ex who was exactly like that. Men like that will never be happy with any woman that comes their way and unless they change their ways they're going to end up very lonely. 

[Skanderbeg]

20 minutes ago, zainabamy said:

It astounds me how many times I've seen good and honest people being hurt by complete jerks for no good reason. The guy's ego must have been hurt when his friends at the mosque didn't approve. It literally does not make any sense to me. 

Maybe jealousy so they gave him the feeling break up would be better. (Because they couldn't ave what he have.)

[zainabamy]

2 minutes ago, Skanderbeg said:

Maybe jealousy so they gave him the feeling break up would be better. (Because they couldn't ave what he have.)

 Who knows hey? I just don't understand people and don't think I ever will. 

[A175]

36 minutes ago, zainabamy said:

Yeah definitely. I had an ex who was exactly like that. Men like that will never be happy with any woman that comes their way and unless they change their ways they're going to end up very lonely. 

How nice if that was the truth, but you know better don't you?

Those kinds of people are never lonely. They don't even comprehend what loneliness is. As long as their bodies are satisfied, they'll consider it a victory.

[Son of Placid]

Maybe she was just too friendly with other people and tried too hard, I don't really know. 

I do know that trying to get a smile out of a Sikh woman behind the counter is tough and when it does happen the husband gets in the way fast. Dude followed out to my car and left me thinking I should ask him what his problem was, then thought...The guy carries a kirpan.

[Son of Placid]

5 minutes ago, A175 said:

How nice if that was the truth, but you know better don't you?

Those kinds of people are never lonely. They don't even comprehend what loneliness is. As long as their bodies are satisfied, they'll consider it a victory.

This guy has cash to flash. He'll never be lonely until the end. Amazing what some consider a victory, because he lost that round.

[Sumayyeh]

6 hours ago, A175 said:

My apologies if this has been covered before, but I'm looking for some perspective.

I'm a revert. Standard white American dude with limited experience regarding attitudes between different Arab and Asian cultures in my new home. Just from the outside looking in, it seems that tribalism is alive and well.

One of the things that drew me to Islam initially was the ideas of social justice and ethnic equality. The abolishment of racism and all that. So it was a bit shocking to hear that a Muslim's parents would disown their child if they brought someone that wasn't from their "group" (ethnic origin, nationality, even down to the village, etc) as consideration for a potential spouse, or reject the suitor because of that difference.

I'm not saying that it's a rare thing in the world, or in America. It just kind of put me in a funk, considering how often I hear Muslims talk about racism and discrimination.

From the members here, I would assume your own individual experiences vary depending on your location and your family, but I'll ask anyway. How often do you see culture eclipse religion in domestic matters?

Oh yeah it's alive and well..forget about being a white guy...apparently in some cultures even if you're from another village..that's a problem...lol

it's really sad and messed up...

sometimes a legit concern is just we want to have our son/daughter marry Into a family that can relate to culturally...I think that depends on the personality of the actual  son/daughter...

but to think that everyone's like that and prejudiced isn't accurate either...which I'm sure you've noticed as well

have you guys seen hybrid children...they're so cute <3

Edited February 28, 2016 by Sumayyeh

[A175]

"Hybrid"  I'm dying lol

 

Yes I've been told about the village thing, too... which is crazy considering that those villages are in a different hemisphere. 

[StarryNight]

Yup, it's alive and well, I was shocked to discover that as well after I became Muslim. Not everyone is like that obviously but some of them (sadly some of the ones you see at the masjid that pray, quote the Qur'an, and are nice to everyone) would really do crazy and sometimes evil things just to avoid their son/daughter marry someone outside their "kind". They are willing to really forget religion and do whatever it takes them to avoid such marriage. 

Be careful

Edited February 28, 2016 by StarryNight