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In the Name of God بسم الله
realizm

Debunking fake stories and ahadith - Cleaning our own closet

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:salam:

I suggest we use this thread to expose suspect ahadith and histories that exist in shias' popular creed.

Since I already have a couple ones on my mind, I thought I could start a thread and in sha Allah other members will help throughout time.

Wa Allahu a`lam.

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:salam:

"Cut the living child in two and give half to one and half to the other"

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Now two prostitutes came to the king and stood before him. 17One of them said, “Pardon me, my lord. This woman and I live in the same house, and I had a baby while she was there with me. 18The third day after my child was born, this woman also had a baby. We were alone; there was no one in the house but the two of us.

19“During the night this woman’s son died because she lay on him. 20So she got up in the middle of the night and took my son from my side while I your servant was asleep. She put him by her breast and put her dead son by my breast. 21The next morning, I got up to nurse my son—and he was dead! But when I looked at him closely in the morning light, I saw that it wasn’t the son I had borne.”

22The other woman said, “No! The living one is my son; the dead one is yours.”

But the first one insisted, “No! The dead one is yours; the living one is mine.” And so they argued before the king.

23The king said, “This one says, ‘My son is alive and your son is dead,’ while that one says, ‘No! Your son is dead and mine is alive.’ ”

24Then the king said, “Bring me a sword.” So they brought a sword for the king. 25He then gave an order: “Cut the living child in two and give half to one and half to the other.”

26The woman whose son was alive was deeply moved out of love for her son and said to the king, “Please, my lord, give her the living baby! Don’t kill him!”

But the other said, “Neither I nor you shall have him. Cut him in two!”

27Then the king gave his ruling: “Give the living baby to the first woman. Do not kill him; she is his mother.”

 

http://biblehub.com/niv/1_kings/3.htm

I am sure some of you have heard about that story... except that we shias attribute it to Imam Ali (as).

It is in fact in the Book of Kings, and the ruler is Prophet Suleiman (as).

 

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:salam:

 

In the Lion's Den.

 

I used on purpose the title of a SC thread for this one. We know about the story Of Imam Ridha - or sometimes Imam Hadi (as) thrown to the Lions and not harmed due to his holiness.

 

Quote

 

So the king gave the order, and they brought Daniel and threw him into the lions’ den. The king said to Daniel, “May your God, whom you serve continually, rescue you!”

17A stone was brought and placed over the mouth of the den, and the king sealed it with his own signet ring and with the rings of his nobles, so that Daniel’s situation might not be changed. 18Then the king returned to his palace and spent the night without eating and without any entertainment being brought to him. And he could not sleep.

19At the first light of dawn, the king got up and hurried to the lions’ den. 20When he came near the den, he called to Daniel in an anguished voice, “Daniel, servant of the living God, has your God, whom you serve continually, been able to rescue you from the lions?”

21Daniel answered, “May the king live forever! 22My God sent his angel, and he shut the mouths of the lions. They have not hurt me, because I was found innocent in his sight. Nor have I ever done any wrong before you, Your Majesty.”

23The king was overjoyed and gave orders to lift Daniel out of the den. And when Daniel was lifted from the den, no wound was found on him, because he had trusted in his God.

24At the king’s command, the men who had falsely accused Daniel were brought in and thrown into the lions’ den, along with their wives and children. And before they reached the floor of the den, the lions overpowered them and crushed all their bones.

 

 

This time, the original story is about Prophet Daniel (as)

http://biblehub.com/niv/daniel/6.htm

Edited by realizm

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50 minutes ago, narsis said:

Bismillah.

Salaam.

This story is narrated by Allameh Amini in his book "Al-Ghadir", vol.1, p.94.

With Duas.

Narsis.

Salam,

Which story of the two ?

Do you mean Allameh Abdul Hosein Amini who was born in the 20th century ? 

And how would it justify it being used anyway

 

Edited by realizm

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May I add that I made this thread following a speech by an `alim at the husseyniat. He mentionned the story of Imam Ali (as) and the dilemma about the baby, when the brother sitting next to me, whom I know very knowledgeable about sacred texts, whispered to me that the story was from the Bible. 

I wondered what a Christian would think if he heard us telling stories from his Books.

We need to get our facts straight first.

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16 hours ago, realizm said:

May I add that I made this thread following a speech by an `alim at the husseyniat. He mentionned the story of Imam Ali (as) and the dilemma about the baby, when the brother sitting next to me, whom I know very knowledgeable about sacred texts, whispered to me that the story was from the Bible. 

I wondered what a Christian would think if he heard us telling stories from his Books.

We need to get our facts straight first.

Not sure what the question is here. Why shouldn't scholars be aware of these accounts from the Jewish scriptures of First Kings and the Book of Daniel? They are well-known to both Jews and Christians.

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Well, what if you listened to a speech by some, say, sikh or baha'i scholar claiming their Guru performed the miracle of being born without a father, under a palm tree... ?

Would you accept their creed as genuine, just because they have not read our Qur'an in which the story is ascribed to Jesus (as) ?

Hope you got my point.

 

And by the way, the Bible is from the Holy Scriptures. Regardless of which parts were corrupted, the least we can do is not copy-paste some passages and adapt it Shia style.

 

I can sense this kind of topic is not particularly liked nor popular amongst shias, but I hope some brothers and sisters will not hesitate to post here should they come across myths taken from other creeds.

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Since I have to haste to Church, I don't have time this morning to talk about this too much yet...although it intrigues me and I thank you for that.

I guess if I heard it from either of those I would wonder where and when the "cross-pollination" happened. That's all. :rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, LeftCoastMom said:

Since I have to haste to Church, I don't have time this morning to talk about this too much yet...although it intrigues me and I thank you for that.

I guess if I heard it from either of those I would wonder where and when the "cross-pollination" happened. That's all. :rolleyes:

Hi sister,

I just had forgotten you were Christian and I used an analogy to which Muslims could relate. So obviously I used the wrong example to adress the wrong person, sorry about that.

To make things clear, I find shameful that some of our speakers use anecdotes from other sacred texts and apply them to our Holy Imams and Ahl el Beit (as). 

It is not only an insult to them, but also to the Prophets that came before (peace be upon them all). And it makes us look stupid and unknowledgeable too.

God bless you.

Edited by realizm

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On ۱۳۹۴/۱۲/۸ ه‍.ش. at 11:44 PM, realizm said:

Salam,

Which story of the two ?

Do you mean Allameh Abdul Hosein Amini who was born in the 20th century ? 

And how would it justify it being used anyway

 

Bismillah.

Salaam again.

This Hadith is also mentioned by Sheikh Mufīd in "al-ʼIrshād" (vol.1, p.205) and Ibn Shahr ʼĀshūb in "Manāqib ʻĀli Abī Tālib" (vol.2, p.367), but the interesting point is that in latter Ibn Shahr ʼĀshūb at the end of Hadith said that this judgment of Imam Ali is like what Sulaymān had done when he was child. Here is the text of the Hadith:

وَ رَوَوْا أَنَّ امْرَأَتَيْنِ تَنَازَعَتَا عَلَى عَهْدِهِ فِي طِفْلٍ ادَّعَتْهُ كُلُّ وَاحِدَةٍ مِنْهُمَا وَلَداً لَهَا بِغَيْرِ بَيِّنَةٍ فَغُمَّ عَلَيْهِ وَ فَزِعَ فِيهِ إِلَى أَمِيرِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ فَاسْتَدْعَى الْمَرْأَتَيْنِ وَ وَعَظَهُمَا وَ خَوَّفَهُمَا فَأَقَامَتَا عَلَى التَّنَازُعِ فَقَالَ ع ائْتُونِي بِمِنْشَارٍ فَقَالَتَا مَا تَصْنَعُ بِهِ قَالَ أَقُدُّهُ بِنِصْفَيْنِ لِكُلِّ وَاحِدَةٍ مِنْكُمَا نِصْفُهُ فَسَكَتَتْ إِحْدَاهُمَا وَ قَالَتِ الْأُخْرَى اللَّهَ اللَّهَ يَا أَبَا الْحَسَنِ إِنْ كَانَ لَا بُدَّ مِنْ ذَلِكَ فَقَدْ سَمَحْتُ لَهُ بِهَا فَقَالَ اللَّهُ أَكْبَرُ هَذَا ابْنُكِ دُونَهَا وَ لَوْ كَانَ ابْنَهَا لَرَقَّتْ عَلَيْهِ وَ أَشْفَقَتْ فَاعْتَرَفَتِ الْأُخْرَى بِأَنَّ الْوَلَدَ لَهَا دُونَهَا وَ هَذَا حُكْمُ‏ سُلَيْمَانَ‏ فِي صِغَرِه‏.

With Duas.

Narsis.

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12 hours ago, narsis said:

 

Bismillah.

Salaam again.

This Hadith is also mentioned by Sheikh Mufīd in "al-ʼIrshād" (vol.1, p.205) and Ibn Shahr ʼĀshūb in "Manāqib ʻĀli Abī Tālib" (vol.2, p.367), but the interesting point is that in latter Ibn Shahr ʼĀshūb at the end of Hadith said that this judgment of Imam Ali is like what Sulaymān had done when he was child. Here is the text of the Hadith:

وَ رَوَوْا أَنَّ امْرَأَتَيْنِ تَنَازَعَتَا عَلَى عَهْدِهِ فِي طِفْلٍ ادَّعَتْهُ كُلُّ وَاحِدَةٍ مِنْهُمَا وَلَداً لَهَا بِغَيْرِ بَيِّنَةٍ فَغُمَّ عَلَيْهِ وَ فَزِعَ فِيهِ إِلَى أَمِيرِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ فَاسْتَدْعَى الْمَرْأَتَيْنِ وَ وَعَظَهُمَا وَ خَوَّفَهُمَا فَأَقَامَتَا عَلَى التَّنَازُعِ فَقَالَ ع ائْتُونِي بِمِنْشَارٍ فَقَالَتَا مَا تَصْنَعُ بِهِ قَالَ أَقُدُّهُ بِنِصْفَيْنِ لِكُلِّ وَاحِدَةٍ مِنْكُمَا نِصْفُهُ فَسَكَتَتْ إِحْدَاهُمَا وَ قَالَتِ الْأُخْرَى اللَّهَ اللَّهَ يَا أَبَا الْحَسَنِ إِنْ كَانَ لَا بُدَّ مِنْ ذَلِكَ فَقَدْ سَمَحْتُ لَهُ بِهَا فَقَالَ اللَّهُ أَكْبَرُ هَذَا ابْنُكِ دُونَهَا وَ لَوْ كَانَ ابْنَهَا لَرَقَّتْ عَلَيْهِ وَ أَشْفَقَتْ فَاعْتَرَفَتِ الْأُخْرَى بِأَنَّ الْوَلَدَ لَهَا دُونَهَا وَ هَذَا حُكْمُ‏ سُلَيْمَانَ‏ فِي صِغَرِه‏.

With Duas.

Narsis.

Very interesting indeed... Would be nice to know the isnad of the hadith.

:ws:

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