Are the Wives of the Prophet part of the Household or not?

[Talut]

Are the Wives of the Prophet part of the Household or not?

 

Quote

Yazid b. Hayyan reported: We went to him (Zaid b. Arqam) and said to him. You have found goodness (for you had the honour) to live in the company of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and offered prayer behind him, and the rest of the hadith is the same but with this variation of wording that lie said: Behold, for I am leaving amongst you two weighty things, one of which is the Book of Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, and that is the rope of Allah. He who holds it fast would be on right guidance and he who abandons it would be in error, and in this (hadith) these words are also found: We said: Who are amongst the members of the household? Aren't the wives (of the Holy Prophet) included amongst the members of his house hold? Thereupon he said: No, by Allah, a woman lives with a man (as his wife) for a certain period; he then divorces her and she goes back to her parents and to her people;  

Sahih Muslim (Book #031, Hadith #5923)

---

 

Quote

'A'isha reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) went out one norning wearing a striped cloak of the black camel's hair that there came Hasan b. 'Ali. He wrapped hitn under it, then came Husain and he wrapped him under it along with the other one (Hasan). Then came Fatima and he took her under it, then came 'Ali and he also took him under it and then said: Allah only desires to take away any uncleanliness from you, O people of the household, and purify you (thorough purifying)  

Sahih Muslim (Book #031, Hadith #5955)

 

Edited February 25, 2016 by Talut

[zainabamy]

Assalam aleikum,

The wives of the Prophet (sawa) are part of the household but not part of the Ahlulbayt (as). 

[neverforgotten313]

21 minutes ago, zainabamy said:

Assalam aleikum,

The wives of the Prophet (sawa) are part of the household but not part of the Ahlulbayt (as). 

i think you are confused with the wording here 

ahlul bayt means people of the house , and its a title not a physical characteristics 

[S.M.H.A.]

'A'isha reported that Allah's Apostle (ﷺ) went out one norning wearing a striped cloak of the black camel's hair that there came Hasan b. 'Ali. He wrapped hitn under it, then came Husain and he wrapped him under it along with the other one (Hasan). Then came Fatima and he took her under it, then came 'Ali and he also took him under it and then said:

Allah only desires to take away any uncleanliness from you, O people of the household, and purify you (thorough purifying)

حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو بَكْرِ بْنُ أَبِي شَيْبَةَ، وَمُحَمَّدُ بْنُ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ نُمَيْرٍ، - وَاللَّفْظُ لأَبِي بَكْرٍ - قَالاَ حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ بِشْرٍ، عَنْ زَكَرِيَّاءَ، عَنْ مُصْعَبِ بْنِ شَيْبَةَ، عَنْ صَفِيَّةَ بِنْتِ شَيْبَةَ، قَالَتْ قَالَتْ عَائِشَةُ خَرَجَ النَّبِيُّ صلى الله عليه وسلم غَدَاةً وَعَلَيْهِ مِرْطٌ مُرَحَّلٌ مِنْ شَعْرٍ أَسْوَدَ فَجَاءَ الْحَسَنُ بْنُ عَلِيٍّ فَأَدْخَلَهُ ثُمَّ جَاءَ الْحُسَيْنُ فَدَخَلَ مَعَهُ ثُمَّ جَاءَتْ فَاطِمَةُ فَأَدْخَلَهَا ثُمَّ جَاءَ عَلِيٌّ فَأَدْخَلَهُ ثُمَّ قَالَ ‏{‏ إِنَّمَا يُرِيدُ اللَّهُ لِيُذْهِبَ عَنْكُمُ الرِّجْسَ أَهْلَ الْبَيْتِ وَيُطَهِّرَكُمْ تَطْهِيرًا‏}‏

Reference : Sahih Muslim 2424

In-book reference : Book 44, Hadith 91

USC-MSA web (English) reference : Book 31, Hadith 5955

http://sunnah.com/muslim/44/91

Yazid b. Hayyan reported, I went along with Husain b. Sabra and 'Umar b. Muslim to Zaid b. Arqam and, as we sat by his side, Husain said to him:

Zaid. you have been able to acquire a great virtue that you saw Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) listened to his talk, fought by his side in (different) battles, offered prayer behind me. Zaid, you have in fact earned a great virtue. Zaid, narrate to us what you heard from Allah's Messenger (ﷺ). He said: I have grown old and have almost spent my age and I have forgotten some of the things which I remembered in connection with Allah's Messenger (ﷺ), so accept whatever I narrate to you, and which I do not narrate do not compel me to do that. He then said: One day Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) stood up to deliver sermon at a watering place known as Khumm situated between Mecca and Medina. He praised Allah, extolled Him and delivered the sermon and. exhorted (us) and said: Now to our purpose. O people, I am a human being. I am about to receive a messenger (the angel of death) from my Lord and I, in response to Allah's call, (would bid good-bye to you), but I am leaving among you two weighty things: the one being the Book of Allah in which there is right guidance and light, so hold fast to the Book of Allah and adhere to it. He exhorted (us) (to hold fast) to the Book of Allah and then said: The second are the members of my household I remind you (of your duties) to the members of my family. He (Husain) said to Zaid: Who are the members of his household? Aren't his wives the members of his family? Thereupon he said: His wives are the members of his family (but here) the members of his family are those for whom acceptance of Zakat is forbidden. And he said: Who are they? Thereupon he said: 'Ali and the offspring of 'Ali, 'Aqil and the offspring of 'Aqil and the offspring of Ja'far and the offspring of 'Abbas. Husain said: These are those for whom the acceptance of Zakat is forbidden. Zaid said: Yes.

حَدَّثَنِي زُهَيْرُ بْنُ حَرْبٍ، وَشُجَاعُ بْنُ مَخْلَدٍ، جَمِيعًا عَنِ ابْنِ عُلَيَّةَ، قَالَ زُهَيْرٌ حَدَّثَنَا إِسْمَاعِيلُ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ، حَدَّثَنِي أَبُو حَيَّانَ، حَدَّثَنِي يَزِيدُ بْنُ حَيَّانَ، قَالَ انْطَلَقْتُ أَنَا وَحُصَيْنُ، بْنُ سَبْرَةَ وَعُمَرُ بْنُ مُسْلِمٍ إِلَى زَيْدِ بْنِ أَرْقَمَ فَلَمَّا جَلَسْنَا إِلَيْهِ قَالَ لَهُ حُصَيْنٌ لَقَدْ لَقِيتَ يَا زَيْدُ خَيْرًا كَثِيرًا رَأَيْتَ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم وَسَمِعْتَ حَدِيثَهُ وَغَزَوْتَ مَعَهُ وَصَلَّيْتَ خَلْفَهُ لَقَدْ لَقِيتَ يَا زَيْدُ خَيْرًا كَثِيرًا حَدِّثْنَا يَا زَيْدُ مَا سَمِعْتَ مِنْ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم - قَالَ - يَا ابْنَ أَخِي وَاللَّهِ لَقَدْ كَبِرَتْ سِنِّي وَقَدُمَ عَهْدِي وَنَسِيتُ بَعْضَ الَّذِي كُنْتُ أَعِي مِنْ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَمَا حَدَّثْتُكُمْ فَاقْبَلُوا وَمَا لاَ فَلاَ تُكَلِّفُونِيهِ ‏.‏ ثُمَّ قَالَ قَامَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَوْمًا فِينَا خَطِيبًا بِمَاءٍ يُدْعَى خُمًّا بَيْنَ مَكَّةَ وَالْمَدِينَةِ فَحَمِدَ اللَّهَ وَأَثْنَى عَلَيْهِ وَوَعَظَ وَذَكَّرَ ثُمَّ قَالَ ‏"‏ أَمَّا بَعْدُ أَلاَ أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ فَإِنَّمَا أَنَا بَشَرٌ يُوشِكُ أَنْ يَأْتِيَ رَسُولُ رَبِّي فَأُجِيبَ وَأَنَا تَارِكٌ فِيكُمْ ثَقَلَيْنِ أَوَّلُهُمَا كِتَابُ اللَّهِ فِيهِ الْهُدَى وَالنُّورُ فَخُذُوا بِكِتَابِ اللَّهِ وَاسْتَمْسِكُوا بِهِ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ فَحَثَّ عَلَى كِتَابِ اللَّهِ وَرَغَّبَ فِيهِ ثُمَّ قَالَ ‏"‏ وَأَهْلُ بَيْتِي أُذَكِّرُكُمُ اللَّهَ فِي أَهْلِ بَيْتِي أُذَكِّرُكُمُ اللَّهَ فِي أَهْلِ بَيْتِي أُذَكِّرُكُمُ اللَّهَ فِي أَهْلِ بَيْتِي ‏"‏ ‏.‏ فَقَالَ لَهُ حُصَيْنٌ وَمَنْ أَهْلُ بَيْتِهِ يَا زَيْدُ أَلَيْسَ نِسَاؤُهُ مِنْ أَهْلِ بَيْتِهِ قَالَ نِسَاؤُهُ مِنْ أَهْلِ بَيْتِهِ وَلَكِنْ أَهْلُ بَيْتِهِ مَنْ حُرِمَ الصَّدَقَةَ بَعْدَهُ ‏.‏ قَالَ وَمَنْ هُمْ قَالَ هُمْ آلُ عَلِيٍّ وَآلُ عَقِيلٍ وَآلُ جَعْفَرٍ وَآلُ عَبَّاسٍ ‏.‏ قَالَ كُلُّ هَؤُلاَءِ حُرِمَ الصَّدَقَةَ قَالَ نَعَمْ ‏.‏

Reference : Sahih Muslim 2408 a

In-book reference : Book 44, Hadith 55

USC-MSA web (English) reference : Book 31, Hadith 5920

http://sunnah.com/muslim/44/55

[sidnaq]

6 hours ago, zainabamy said:

Assalam aleikum,

The wives of the Prophet (sawa) are part of the household but not part of the Ahlulbayt (as). 

Salam zainab,what is up with your profile picture, you look so animated and lively hehehe you look good, bt the way

[Student_of_Deen]

8 hours ago, zainabamy said:

Assalam aleikum,

The wives of the Prophet (sawa) are part of the household but not part of the Ahlulbayt (as). 

Walaykum As`salam,

My dear sister in Islam, don`t you know the word Ahlulbayt literally means people of the house/family ? 

How can the wives of the Prophet (Peace be upon him) be people of the house/family but still not be part of Ahlulbayt ?

 

[Muslim2010]

18 hours ago, Talut said:

Are the Wives of the Prophet part of the Household or not?

The wives of the prophet saww never claimed that they are covered as Ahl albayt in the verse of purification (33:33).

 

 

Edited February 26, 2016 by skamran110

[Talut]

11 hours ago, Student_of_Deen said:

Walaykum As`salam,

My dear sister in Islam, don`t you know the word Ahlulbayt literally means people of the house/family ? 

How can the wives of the Prophet (Peace be upon him) be people of the house/family but still not be part of Ahlulbayt ?

 

That depends on the Will of Allah.

Then whoever argues with you about it after [this] knowledge has come to you - say, "Come, let us call our sons and your sons, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves, then supplicate earnestly [together] and invoke the curse of Allah upon the liars [among us]. 

The only ones present were Muhammad, Fatima, Ali, Hasan and Husain a.s.

After that the following verse came down with the definition of the Ahl al-Bayt a.s. according to Allah.

Allah only desires to take away any uncleanliness from you, O people of the household, and purify you (thorough purifying)  


 

[S.M.H.A.]

[Pickthal 33:33] And stay in your houses. Bedizen not yourselves with the bedizenment of the Time of Ignorance. Be regular in prayer, and pay the poor-due, and obey Allah and His messenger. Allah's wish is but to remove uncleanness far from you, O Folk of the Household, and cleanse you with a thorough cleansing.

*****

[Pickthal 66:1] O Prophet! Why bannest thou that which Allah hath made lawful for thee, seeking to please thy wives? And Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
[Pickthal 66:2] Allah hath made lawful for you (Muslims) absolution from your oaths (of such a kind), and Allah is your Protector. He is the Knower, the Wise.
[Pickthal 66:3] When the Prophet confided a fact unto one of his wives and when she afterward divulged it and Allah apprised him thereof, he made known (to her) part thereof and passed over part. And when he told it her she said: Who hath told thee? He said: The Knower, the Aware hath told me.
[Pickthal 66:4] If ye twain turn unto Allah repentant, (ye have cause to do so) for your hearts desired (the ban); and if ye aid one another against him (Muhammad) then lo! Allah, even He, is his Protecting Friend, and Gabriel and the righteous among the believers; and furthermore the angels are his helpers.
[Pickthal 66:5] It may happen that his Lord, if he divorce you, will give him in your stead wives better than you, submissive (to Allah), believing, pious, penitent, devout, inclined to fasting, widows and maids.
[Pickthal 66:6] O ye who believe! Ward off from yourselves and your families a Fire whereof the fuel is men and stones, over which are set angels strong, severe, who resist not Allah in that which He commandeth them, but do that which they are commanded.
[Pickthal 66:7] (Then it will be said): O ye who disbelieve! Make no excuses for yourselves this day. Ye are only being paid for what ye used to do.
[Pickthal 66:8] O ye who believe! Turn unto Allah in sincere repentance! It may be that your Lord will remit from you your evil deeds and bring you into Gardens underneath which rivers flow, on the day when Allah will not abase the Prophet and those who believe with him. Their light will run before them and on their right hands; they will say: Our Lord! Perfect our light for us, and forgive us! Lo! Thou art Able to do all things.
[Pickthal 66:9] O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end.
[Pickthal 66:10] Allah citeth an example for those who disbelieve: the wife of Noah and the wife of Lot, who were under two of Our righteous slaves yet betrayed them so that they (the husbands) availed them naught against Allah and it was said (unto them): Enter the Fire along with those who enter.
[Pickthal 66:11] And Allah citeth an example for those who believe: the wife of Pharaoh when she said: My Lord! Build for me a home with thee in the Garden, and deliver me from Pharaoh and his work, and deliver me from evil-doing folk;
[Pickthal 66:12] And Mary, daughter of 'Imran, whose body was chaste, therefor We breathed therein something of Our Spirit. And she put faith in the words of her Lord and His scriptures, and was of the obedient.

*****

Kindly, explain Tawheed?

[haideriam]

17 hours ago, Student_of_Deen said:

 

How can the wives of the Prophet (Peace be upon him) be people of the house/family but still not be part of Ahlulbayt ?

 

 

just like Noah(as) son was not a part of that special Ahl that Allah(swt) meant. 

 

[Student_of_Deen]

4 hours ago, haideriam said:

 

just like Noah(as) son was not a part of that special Ahl that Allah(swt) meant. 

 

what Special Ahl ? there is no Special Ahle Bayt and Non-Special Ahle Bayt. Do you make such classifications in your own family ? 

the Son of Noah (Peace be upon him) rejected his Message and left him and that is why his son was not of him.

 

[Student_of_Deen]

10 hours ago, Talut said:

That depends on the Will of Allah.

Then whoever argues with you about it after [this] knowledge has come to you - say, "Come, let us call our sons and your sons, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves, then supplicate earnestly [together] and invoke the curse of Allah upon the liars [among us]. 

The only ones present were Muhammad, Fatima, Ali, Hasan and Husain a.s.

After that the following verse came down with the definition of the Ahl al-Bayt a.s. according to Allah.

Allah only desires to take away any uncleanliness from you, O people of the household, and purify you (thorough purifying)  


 

if only Fatimah, Ali, Hasan and Hussain (May Allah be well pleased with them all) are part of the AhlulBayt then how come you have a series of 9 other Imams after them ?

[Student_of_Deen]

On 2/26/2016 at 10:16 AM, S.M.H.A. said:

'A'isha reported that Allah's Apostle (ﷺ) went out one norning wearing a striped cloak of the black camel's hair that there came Hasan b. 'Ali. He wrapped hitn under it, then came Husain and he wrapped him under it along with the other one (Hasan). Then came Fatima and he took her under it, then came 'Ali and he also took him under it and then said:

Allah only desires to take away any uncleanliness from you, O people of the household, and purify you (thorough purifying)

حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو بَكْرِ بْنُ أَبِي شَيْبَةَ، وَمُحَمَّدُ بْنُ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ نُمَيْرٍ، - وَاللَّفْظُ لأَبِي بَكْرٍ - قَالاَ حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ بِشْرٍ، عَنْ زَكَرِيَّاءَ، عَنْ مُصْعَبِ بْنِ شَيْبَةَ، عَنْ صَفِيَّةَ بِنْتِ شَيْبَةَ، قَالَتْ قَالَتْ عَائِشَةُ خَرَجَ النَّبِيُّ صلى الله عليه وسلم غَدَاةً وَعَلَيْهِ مِرْطٌ مُرَحَّلٌ مِنْ شَعْرٍ أَسْوَدَ فَجَاءَ الْحَسَنُ بْنُ عَلِيٍّ فَأَدْخَلَهُ ثُمَّ جَاءَ الْحُسَيْنُ فَدَخَلَ مَعَهُ ثُمَّ جَاءَتْ فَاطِمَةُ فَأَدْخَلَهَا ثُمَّ جَاءَ عَلِيٌّ فَأَدْخَلَهُ ثُمَّ قَالَ ‏{‏ إِنَّمَا يُرِيدُ اللَّهُ لِيُذْهِبَ عَنْكُمُ الرِّجْسَ أَهْلَ الْبَيْتِ وَيُطَهِّرَكُمْ تَطْهِيرًا‏}‏

Reference : Sahih Muslim 2424

In-book reference : Book 44, Hadith 91

USC-MSA web (English) reference : Book 31, Hadith 5955

http://sunnah.com/muslim/44/91

Yazid b. Hayyan reported, I went along with Husain b. Sabra and 'Umar b. Muslim to Zaid b. Arqam and, as we sat by his side, Husain said to him:

Zaid. you have been able to acquire a great virtue that you saw Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) listened to his talk, fought by his side in (different) battles, offered prayer behind me. Zaid, you have in fact earned a great virtue. Zaid, narrate to us what you heard from Allah's Messenger (ﷺ). He said: I have grown old and have almost spent my age and I have forgotten some of the things which I remembered in connection with Allah's Messenger (ﷺ), so accept whatever I narrate to you, and which I do not narrate do not compel me to do that. He then said: One day Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) stood up to deliver sermon at a watering place known as Khumm situated between Mecca and Medina. He praised Allah, extolled Him and delivered the sermon and. exhorted (us) and said: Now to our purpose. O people, I am a human being. I am about to receive a messenger (the angel of death) from my Lord and I, in response to Allah's call, (would bid good-bye to you), but I am leaving among you two weighty things: the one being the Book of Allah in which there is right guidance and light, so hold fast to the Book of Allah and adhere to it. He exhorted (us) (to hold fast) to the Book of Allah and then said: The second are the members of my household I remind you (of your duties) to the members of my family. He (Husain) said to Zaid: Who are the members of his household? Aren't his wives the members of his family? Thereupon he said: His wives are the members of his family (but here) the members of his family are those for whom acceptance of Zakat is forbidden. And he said: Who are they? Thereupon he said: 'Ali and the offspring of 'Ali, 'Aqil and the offspring of 'Aqil and the offspring of Ja'far and the offspring of 'Abbas. Husain said: These are those for whom the acceptance of Zakat is forbidden. Zaid said: Yes.

حَدَّثَنِي زُهَيْرُ بْنُ حَرْبٍ، وَشُجَاعُ بْنُ مَخْلَدٍ، جَمِيعًا عَنِ ابْنِ عُلَيَّةَ، قَالَ زُهَيْرٌ حَدَّثَنَا إِسْمَاعِيلُ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ، حَدَّثَنِي أَبُو حَيَّانَ، حَدَّثَنِي يَزِيدُ بْنُ حَيَّانَ، قَالَ انْطَلَقْتُ أَنَا وَحُصَيْنُ، بْنُ سَبْرَةَ وَعُمَرُ بْنُ مُسْلِمٍ إِلَى زَيْدِ بْنِ أَرْقَمَ فَلَمَّا جَلَسْنَا إِلَيْهِ قَالَ لَهُ حُصَيْنٌ لَقَدْ لَقِيتَ يَا زَيْدُ خَيْرًا كَثِيرًا رَأَيْتَ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم وَسَمِعْتَ حَدِيثَهُ وَغَزَوْتَ مَعَهُ وَصَلَّيْتَ خَلْفَهُ لَقَدْ لَقِيتَ يَا زَيْدُ خَيْرًا كَثِيرًا حَدِّثْنَا يَا زَيْدُ مَا سَمِعْتَ مِنْ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم - قَالَ - يَا ابْنَ أَخِي وَاللَّهِ لَقَدْ كَبِرَتْ سِنِّي وَقَدُمَ عَهْدِي وَنَسِيتُ بَعْضَ الَّذِي كُنْتُ أَعِي مِنْ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَمَا حَدَّثْتُكُمْ فَاقْبَلُوا وَمَا لاَ فَلاَ تُكَلِّفُونِيهِ ‏.‏ ثُمَّ قَالَ قَامَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَوْمًا فِينَا خَطِيبًا بِمَاءٍ يُدْعَى خُمًّا بَيْنَ مَكَّةَ وَالْمَدِينَةِ فَحَمِدَ اللَّهَ وَأَثْنَى عَلَيْهِ وَوَعَظَ وَذَكَّرَ ثُمَّ قَالَ ‏"‏ أَمَّا بَعْدُ أَلاَ أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ فَإِنَّمَا أَنَا بَشَرٌ يُوشِكُ أَنْ يَأْتِيَ رَسُولُ رَبِّي فَأُجِيبَ وَأَنَا تَارِكٌ فِيكُمْ ثَقَلَيْنِ أَوَّلُهُمَا كِتَابُ اللَّهِ فِيهِ الْهُدَى وَالنُّورُ فَخُذُوا بِكِتَابِ اللَّهِ وَاسْتَمْسِكُوا بِهِ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ فَحَثَّ عَلَى كِتَابِ اللَّهِ وَرَغَّبَ فِيهِ ثُمَّ قَالَ ‏"‏ وَأَهْلُ بَيْتِي أُذَكِّرُكُمُ اللَّهَ فِي أَهْلِ بَيْتِي أُذَكِّرُكُمُ اللَّهَ فِي أَهْلِ بَيْتِي أُذَكِّرُكُمُ اللَّهَ فِي أَهْلِ بَيْتِي ‏"‏ ‏.‏ فَقَالَ لَهُ حُصَيْنٌ وَمَنْ أَهْلُ بَيْتِهِ يَا زَيْدُ أَلَيْسَ نِسَاؤُهُ مِنْ أَهْلِ بَيْتِهِ قَالَ نِسَاؤُهُ مِنْ أَهْلِ بَيْتِهِ وَلَكِنْ أَهْلُ بَيْتِهِ مَنْ حُرِمَ الصَّدَقَةَ بَعْدَهُ ‏.‏ قَالَ وَمَنْ هُمْ قَالَ هُمْ آلُ عَلِيٍّ وَآلُ عَقِيلٍ وَآلُ جَعْفَرٍ وَآلُ عَبَّاسٍ ‏.‏ قَالَ كُلُّ هَؤُلاَءِ حُرِمَ الصَّدَقَةَ قَالَ نَعَمْ ‏.‏

Reference : Sahih Muslim 2408 a

In-book reference : Book 44, Hadith 55

USC-MSA web (English) reference : Book 31, Hadith 5920

http://sunnah.com/muslim/44/55

the personal Opinion of Zaid (ra) is wrong. we have Hadiths from the Ahle bayt (wives of the Prophet (peace be upon him)] which proves it without a shadow of the doubt that they were part of his Ahle bayt. Moreover we have ahadith in which the Prophet (Peace be upon him) himself called them his Ahle Bayt. 

[Muslim2010]

34 minutes ago, Student_of_Deen said:

if only Fatimah, Ali, Hasan and Hussain (May Allah be well pleased with them all) are part of the AhlulBayt then how come you have a series of 9 other Imams after them ?

They have mentioned on any instances that they are covered under this verse: 
Imam Ali, Imam Hasan, Imam  Hussain, Imam Ali bin Hussain have mentioned this. And the prophet saww himself has clarified that the count of /imams / caliphs from Ahl albayat are twelve. the first is Imam Ali and the last 12th is Imam al Mahdi.

Imam Mahdi is from Ahl albayat. There is no hadith mentioning the names of 12 Imams / calpihs  other than those from Ahl albayat .

Wassalam

Edited February 27, 2016 by skamran110

[haideriam]

2 hours ago, Student_of_Deen said:

what Special Ahl ? there is no Special Ahle Bayt and Non-Special Ahle Bayt. Do you make such classifications in your own family ? 

the Son of Noah (Peace be upon him) rejected his Message and left him and that is why his son was not of him.

 

I don't but then who am I ...Allah(swt) does and that is all that matters...you me and our conjecture become irrelevant.

This Ahl might be slightly difficult for you to grasp akhi but this special one is the one you send your salutations to in your prayers without which your prayers are invalid.

[Talut]

3 hours ago, Student_of_Deen said:

if only Fatimah, Ali, Hasan and Hussain (May Allah be well pleased with them all) are part of the AhlulBayt then how come you have a series of 9 other Imams after them ?

They are the offspring of the Ahl al-Bayt a.s. 

So part of the Ahl al-Bayt a.s. as well.

You should look at it like this. Ahl al-Bayt in general and wordly sense is a broad concept but in case of religion it actually only consists of those members who were guided and in a more general sense those of them who followed the guides (Imams).

I say this because the offspring of the Ahl al-Bayt a.s. in Karbala like Lady Zaynab for example was a part of it though not an Imam but as a pious girl.

Edited February 27, 2016 by Talut

[Talut]

3 hours ago, Student_of_Deen said:

the personal Opinion of Zaid (ra) is wrong. we have Hadiths from the Ahle bayt (wives of the Prophet (peace be upon him)] which proves it without a shadow of the doubt that they were part of his Ahle bayt. Moreover we have ahadith in which the Prophet (Peace be upon him) himself called them his Ahle Bayt. 

Ahaadith which contradict Sahih Muslim?

Edited February 27, 2016 by Talut

[GreatChineseFall]

On 2/26/2016 at 10:44 AM, Talut said:

After that the following verse came down with the definition of the Ahl al-Bayt a.s. according to Allah.

Allah only desires to take away any uncleanliness from you, O people of the household, and purify you (thorough purifying)  

That was addressing primarily the wives of the Prophet.

[Skanderbeg]

9 minutes ago, GreatChineseFall said:

That was addressing primarily the wives of the Prophet.

That part came down after the event of Muhabala according to Shi'a and Sunni narrations. The Sunni narration of Sahih Muslim is already mentioned.

Edited February 27, 2016 by Skanderbeg

[GreatChineseFall]

5 minutes ago, Skanderbeg said:

That part came down after the event of Muhabala according to Shi'a and Sunni narrations. The Sunni narration of Sahih Muslim is already mentioned.

What is definitely confirmed by the Quran can't be denied by any narration, this is a principle everyone (especially you) should abide by. It simply can not be read in any way excluding the wives.

The inclusion of some does not result in the exclusion of others.

[Skanderbeg]

2 hours ago, GreatChineseFall said:

What is definitely confirmed by the Quran can't be denied by any narration, this is a principle everyone (especially you) should abide by. It simply can not be read in any way excluding the wives.

The inclusion of some does not result in the exclusion of others.

Only if this part of the verse wasn't revealed separated from the former part. 

The verse does actually consist of two sentences and the part which we are discussing is surprisingly the complete second sentence. 



 

Edited February 28, 2016 by Skanderbeg

[Student_of_Deen]

On 2/27/2016 at 2:37 PM, Talut said:

Ahaadith which contradict Sahih Muslim?

that`s not what i said. i said the hadith is SAHIH but the personal Opinion of Hazrat Zaid (Ra) is wrong about the Ahle Bayt (as).

[GreatChineseFall]

9 hours ago, Skanderbeg said:

Only if this part of the verse wasn't revealed separated from the former part. 

The verse does actually consist of two sentences and the part which we are discussing is surprisingly the complete second sentence. 

The grammar simply forbids it to be read in any other way without connecting them. If you read the verse:

Sahih International

And abide in your houses and do not display yourselves as [was] the display of the former times of ignorance. And establish prayer and give zakah and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah intends only to remove from you the impurity [of sin], O people of the [Prophet's] household, and to purify you with [extensive] purification.

You can see the similarity with other verses:

Sahih International

So let not their wealth or their children impress you. Allah only intends to punish them through them in worldly life and that their souls should depart [at death] while they are disbelievers.

Sahih International

O you who have believed, indeed, intoxicants, gambling, [sacrificing on] stone alters [to other than Allah ], and divining arrows are but defilement from the work of Satan, so avoid it that you may be successful.

Sahih International

Satan only wants to cause between you animosity and hatred through intoxicants and gambling and to avert you from the remembrance of Allah and from prayer. So will you not desist?

It is quite clear hear that the verses are connected. Furthermore if you look at the construct ليذهب the first letter ل signifies a purpose for something. The translation to "to" in "Allah only intends to remove .." is actually too vague here. The correct translation actually is "(in order) to .." or "(so) that .." because of the purpose intended here. The fact is that what follows this letter is itself a clause and can't be the object of the previous verb. Again you will see the similarity with other verses:

Sahih International

If a wound should touch you - there has already touched the [opposing] people a wound similar to it. And these days [of varying conditions] We alternate among the people so that Allah may make evident those who believe and [may] take to Himself from among you martyrs - and Allah does not like the wrongdoers -

Sahih International

So We restored him to his mother that she might be content and not grieve and that she would know that the promise of Allah is true. But most of the people do not know.

Sahih International

Then We awakened them that We might show which of the two factions was most precise in calculating what [extent] they had remained in time.

Sahih International

It is He who made the sun a shining light and the moon a derived light and determined for it phases - that you may know the number of years and account [of time]. Allah has not created this except in truth. He details the signs for a people who know

None of these verses have the clause as the object of the previous verb. But you will directly see that if you translate it that way with the verse in question, it absolutely must be connected. If you say "Allah only intends (in order) to remove ..", the translation clearly doesn't make sense. Something must be implied with the verb intend and the result is "Allah only intends (this/it) (in order) to remove .." Another example is this verse:

Sahih International

It is He who created you from dust, then from a sperm-drop, then from a clinging clot; then He brings you out as a child; then [He develops you] that you reach your [time of] maturity, then [further] that you become elders. And among you is he who is taken in death before [that], so that you reach a specified term; and perhaps you will use reason.

For the untrained eye, people might read this as "It is He who created you from dust, then from a sperm-drop, then from a clinging clot; then He brings you out as a child; then you reach your maturity .." This is simply not possible due to the letter ل used here and the translator correctly adds something else that must be implied. The big question here, if the other verse stands on its own, what does Allah intend then? It can't be the verb to remove, the grammar simply forbids that. It must be something else.

So, no, the issue is not how many sentences you have. The issue is not what is revealed when. Btw, if something is mentioned to be revealed, it doesn't mean something else isn't revealed as well. And if you are that confident, then tell me how did the ordering of these verse happen this way? Any narration about that? Any timeframe? Any reason? You know that there were/are quite a few (until this day!) who believe in the distortion of the ordering of these verses?

The truth is that the wives were addressed here and personally I consider the denial as one of the weakest arguments from shia's. But the fact that they are so dependent on it for the entire ideology and creed certainly speaks volumes.

Edited February 28, 2016 by GreatChineseFall

[Student_of_Deen]

On 2/27/2016 at 2:35 PM, Talut said:

They are the offspring of the Ahl al-Bayt a.s. 

So part of the Ahl al-Bayt a.s. as well.

You should look at it like this. Ahl al-Bayt in general and wordly sense is a broad concept but in case of religion it actually only consists of those members who were guided and in a more general sense those of them who followed the guides (Imams).

I say this because the offspring of the Ahl al-Bayt a.s. in Karbala like Lady Zaynab for example was a part of it though not an Imam but as a pious girl.

if so then why didn`t the other Sons of Imam Hassan got a chance to become an infallible Imam ? why was Imam Zaynul Abideen (ra) was chosen but not the the sons of Imam Hassan who were alive at that time ?

[Skanderbeg]

1 hour ago, Student_of_Deen said:

if so then why didn`t the other Sons of Imam Hassan got a chance to become an infallible Imam ? why was Imam Zaynul Abideen (ra) was chosen but not the the sons of Imam Hassan who were alive at that time ?

Why was not all the offspring of Ibrahim a.s. part of Imamate. Why were not all of Bani israel prophets and some not? 

These questions .....

 

[Skanderbeg]

2 hours ago, GreatChineseFall said:

The truth is that the wives were addressed here and personally I consider the denial as one of the weakest arguments from shia's. But the fact that they are so dependent on it for the entire ideology and creed certainly speaks volumes.

The revelation and meaning of the last sentence of the verse is confirmed in an authentic Sahih Muslim hadith which adresses the ones under the Cloak as those who are purified.

Now you can come with books and libraries to prove your point but the truth is right before your eyes. Plain and simple. And in your own sources as well.

Just accept it.

 

Edited February 28, 2016 by Skanderbeg

[StrugglingForTheLight]

Salam

I think this verse and even the hadithal Kisaa, is not of the muhkamat to most people. 

There is a similar trial here in that Nuh first impression of when God said he and his family, would be saved, that his son who was not saved was included. 

But then God told him you are asking about something you have no knowledge about. These are direct words from God to a Prophet and it was misunderstood by the Prophet Nuh. 

So then what about us who are not the direct addressed in the speech? We can easily misunderstand as well.

I would say when coming across this verse we have to consider the following things.

Is there a concept of "family" that is different then normal concept of family?

In response to this, we see Quran says God chose the family of Ibrahim above the worlds. It also says Nuh's son is not his family because his conduct was other then righteous. This while other verses have a rebellious wife of Lut as Lut's family. So we can see God uses both with regards to his Prophets, but one is to emphasize, in the truest sense, their family are only the righteous chosen ones.

Is there other verses that show that Mohammad has chosen successors?

Yes there is, for example 4:52-59, 42:23 with 25:57, 35:51-52,5:55. Given the that Ali, Hassan and Hussain are only the possibility during his life time for Nass (there is no designation of others then them). 

Then Ali, Hassan, and Hussain by what Quran has described of chosen families, and all the emphasis on chosen families, when addressed in hadithal Kisaa, then it becomes obvious that this verse is intended for a special people.

The meaning than cannot be a trivial meaning. It would be a special meaning intended for a special people.

The "le" suggests there is something in the background understood by Ahlulbayt, that it's referring to something that God does with Ahlulbayt. 

This perhaps can be saying, that fact he has chosen you to come to this world, endure what they must endure, and the position of guiding and interceding others, why they the best of creation have been chosen for is so that to keep nothing but the uncleanness from Ahlulbayt, while also uniquely purifying them only a perfect through purification. 

It can be said what God desires regarding them, through choosing the position for them in this world of the next, is for this reason.

So why they have been specifically chosen as far what God desires regarding them is mainly two reasons. One is so that God continues to uniquely purify them a perfect purification.

It can be said the perfect purification is to act most closely to God's Names and Qualities, and as such one of the two purposes is to completely keep them pure, and it shows they would fall from their perfect pure state were it that they weren't guiding and interceding for humanity. 

It can be said another reason they were made as a mercy and guidance to humanity, is so that God bestows them all blessings and honours through the role of intercession, helping and guiding others.

Therefore this verse is perhaps proving, that such a role, for the best of creation is expected, that God favours humanity ultimately through them not only to favour humanity, but to honour them and bring them to new ranks. 

Ultimately, this verse can be showing that God being the graceful as he is, desires such things with the best of his creation, not only as a favour to humanity, but regarding specifically them, that God desires to honour them with blessings through that.

Personally, I don't rely on this verse alone. But with combination of other verses, and Ahadith, specially hadithal thaqalain, I believe this verse is saying something special to chosen people.

Hadithal Kisaa with combination of knowledge that Ali, Fatima, Hassan and Hussain are chosen people, suggests this about revealing something special regarding God and his relationship to the best of his chosen ones.

[Student_of_Deen]

17 hours ago, Skanderbeg said:

Why was not all the offspring of Ibrahim a.s. part of Imamate. Why were not all of Bani israel prophets and some not? 

These questions .....

As far as i know the Sons of Ibrahim (Peace be upon him) were both Prophets and so were some of their descendants in order to guide people towards Allah. we have the Qu`ran to confirm the known Prophets and Messengers among them. 

if you are saying the concept of Imamate is the same as Prophethood and only the selected ones by Allah then how do you decide who is an Imam and who is not ? do you have any divine confirmation to decide who was the chosen Imam and who wasn`t ?

why is Muhammad al Baqir (ra) is one of the 12 Imams of the twelvers but Zayd ibn Ali (ra) is not ? 

These questions......

[Skanderbeg]

8 minutes ago, Student_of_Deen said:

As far as i know the Sons of Ibrahim (Peace be upon him) were both Prophets and so were some of their descendants in order to guide people towards Allah. we have the Qu`ran to confirm the known Prophets and Messengers among them. 

First of all I did not said sons. I said offspring.

The question was: 

Why was not all the offspring of Ibrahim a.s. part of Imamate?

And we know the answer of Allah to that question. 

 

Quote

if you are saying the concept of Imamate is the same as Prophethood and only the selected ones by Allah then how do you decide who is an Imam and who is not ? do you have any divine confirmation to decide who was the chosen Imam and who wasn`t ?

Who decided Imam Ali a.s. to be the successor of Muhammad s.a.w.?

Same principle for the next and then the next and then the next and then the ..

 

[Student_of_Deen]

11 minutes ago, Skanderbeg said:

First of all I did not said sons. I said offspring.

The question was: 

Why was not all the offspring of Ibrahim a.s. part of Imamate?

And we know the answer of Allah to that question. 

yes i understood what you meant and i answered some of them were Prophets while majority of the offspring of Ibrahim (Peace be upon him) was not. 

12 minutes ago, Skanderbeg said:

Who decided Imam Ali a.s. to be the successor of Muhammad s.a.w.?

Same principle for the next and then the next and then the next and then the ..

who decided Imam Ali (ra) to be the Successor of the Prophet (Peace be upon him) ? 

 

[Azim Hussain]

On 2/26/2016 at 11:16 AM, Student_of_Deen said:

Walaykum As`salam,

My dear sister in Islam, don`t you know the word Ahlulbayt literally means people of the house/family ? 

How can the wives of the Prophet (Peace be upon him) be people of the house/family but still not be part of Ahlulbayt ?

 

they do not have the blood of prophet

[Student_of_Deen]

2 hours ago, Azim Hussain said:

they do not have the blood of prophet

you mean a person`s wife is not part of his family (i.e Ahle Bayt) ? o.O

[Azim Hussain]

30 minutes ago, Student_of_Deen said:

you mean a person`s wife is not part of his family (i.e Ahle Bayt) ? o.O

yeah they are a part of family

but not ahlulbaith

ahlulbaith doesnt mean family 

it means people of the house of prophet 

more like from the same clan, same tribe ,same bloodline , etc

like if an arab man marry an american girl

the american girl doesnt become arab

but their child is arab

[Student_of_Deen]

4 minutes ago, Azim Hussain said:

yeah they are a part of family

but not ahlulbaith

ahlulbaith doesnt mean family 

it means people of the house of prophet 

more like from the same clan, same tribe ,same bloodline , etc

the literal meaning of the word Ahlul Bayt is a person family members (i.e his wife and children). 

BTW most of the Prophet (Peace be upon him) wives were from the tribe of Quraish.

4 minutes ago, Azim Hussain said:

like if an arab man marry an american girl

the american girl doesnt become arab

but their child is arab

i think the child will be referred to as half American and half Arab. 

Edited February 29, 2016 by Student_of_Deen

[Azim Hussain]

 

7 minutes ago, Student_of_Deen said:

the literal meaning of the word Ahlul Bayt is a person family members (i.e his wife and children). 

BTW most of the Prophet (Peace be upon him) wives were from the tribe of Quraish.

i think the child will be referred to as half American and half Arab. 

ahlulbaith comes from 

الأَهْل + baith

الأَهْل= parents

baith = house

but الأَهْل is sometimes used for family

and different arabic country uses different words

but most agree with ahlulbaith = people of the house 

and most wives may have been from quraish but that doesnt makes them ahlulbaith

because ahlulbaith starts from prophet muhammad and also none of the wives had any children with prophet muhammad except for khadija a.s  and  Maria al-Qibtiyya.

and yes the child will be referred as half american and half arab but his mom wont become an arab