AntiMajosProduction on Youtube

[The Straight Path]

Salam!

I came across a channel called "Anti Majos Production" where they upload videos that claims to refute our beliefs. They seem to show clips from "Shia scholars" that says pretty weird stuff, I don't know if they have edited the videos to make them seem bad or if these scholars aren't really representing Shia Islam. 

This video for example, who is the Sheikh and did he really say that Allah swt obeys the Imams (a.s) (Stagfurallah)?

 

 

 

Anyone who has seen this channel before? 

I'm sure the videos aren't representing us Shias, however it'd be interesting to see if these "scholars" really said all those strange things, or if they really are Shias to begin with.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Modi0001

[realizm]

I have been seeing it for years. They are hyper active in mocking us through hijacked speeches in which they add sound or visual effects. 

They often pick deviant views amongst shiism but their ways are in no way islamic. 

[Ali_Hussain]

salam,

The people behind the channel are stupid, they would be smarter to just show what these deviants are saying without adding the stupid comments.

But some Shi'a try to avoid discussing the content due to the way the videos are presented, the content should be discussed, as much of it is problematic.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Ali_Hussain

[Student_of_Deen]

5 minutes ago, Ali_Hussain said:

salam,

The people behind the channel are stupid, they would be smarter to just show what these deviants are saying without adding the stupid comments.

But some Shi'a try to avoid discussing the content due to the way the videos are presented, they content should be discussed, as much of it is problematic.

Walaykum As`salam, 

i agree it`s wrong to use the example of the Misguided scholars in order to defame the entire group, even if those misguided scholars are the majority. 

i also believe that it is very wrong to mock someone in order to prove them wrong because that creates hurts the feelings of that person and places hatred in his heart and chances are that even if he agreed with thing that is being said, he won`t accept it because of the pain the speaker caused him due to the improper behavior. 

i would like to know whether that narration about the Imam`s will in Bihar al Anwar is real or false, if it`s possible to find it.

[The Straight Path]

I agree. This video is also interesting regarding the burning of Fatima (a.s) house:

 

Anyone who knows if the things he points out in the video (such as there was never a door at Fatima A.S house etc.) are true?

Edited February 23, 2016 by Modi0001

[Ali_Hussain]

15 minutes ago, Student_of_Deen said:

Walaykum As`salam, 

i agree it`s wrong to use the example of the Misguided scholars in order to defame the entire group, even if those misguided scholars are the majority. 

i also believe that it is very wrong to mock someone in order to prove them wrong because that creates hurts the feelings of that person and places hatred in his heart and chances are that even if he agreed with thing that is being said, he won`t accept it because of the pain the speaker caused him due to the improper behavior. 

i would like to know whether that narration about the Imam`s will in Bihar al Anwar is real or false, if it`s possible to find it.

assalam 'alaykum,

It is from a long narration referred to as 'hadith al-Nuraniyya'

Whilst I'm sure that some scholars find it to be authentic, here is what Kamal al-Haydari said about it:

 

 

Needless to say, that little clip translated is the least of it...

[Student_of_Deen]

@Ali_Hussain BaarakAllahu feek for the efforts but sadly i can`t understand what he`s saying. 

Edited February 23, 2016 by Student_of_Deen

[Ali_Hussain]

13 minutes ago, Student_of_Deen said:

@Ali_Hussain BaarakAllahu feek for the efforts but sadly i can`t understand what he`s saying. 

I tried to make a translation of the first video a while ago, I'm not sure how accurate it is, but it is more or less what he is saying:

Sayed Kamal al-Haydari: There is no authentic chain of narration for hadith al-Nooraniyya

اتصال اخر ابو حسن من بريطانيا, ام حسن من برطانيا تفضلي عفوان, ام الحسن من برطانيا
 

The next caller, Abu Hasan from Britain, Umm Hasan from Britain sorry, if you please, Umm Hasan from Britain

سلام عليكم
 

salaam 'alaykum

و عليكم السلام و رحمة الله
 

wa 'alaykum assalaam

تفضلي يا اختي
 

Please, go on sister

من فضلك سؤال الاول
 

If you please, the first question

تفضلي
 

Please, go ahead

قرات تبعا ان الامام علي ع يقول لا يقاس بنا احد من هذه الامة او يمكن يقول لا يقاس بنا احد من جميع ما خلق الله س
 

I read that Imam 'Ali ('a) said that "we cannot be compared with anyone from this umma" or "we cannot be compared with anyone from the whole of that which Allah (swt) has created

باعتبار هذه الامة افضل
 

With the words: "this umma" is better

قرات مرة ان يقول سيدنا علي ع ما يعرفنا احد الا اذا عرفنا بنورانية ماذا يقصد بهذا الا اذا عرفنا بنورانية
 

I read one time, that sayedna 'Ali ('a) said: "no one would know us, unless they know us by our light" (nooraniyya), what did he mean by this? "unless they know us by our light"

اما ما ذكرته الاول  ام حسن
 

As for what Umm Hasan mentioned first

ام حسن من برطانيا
 

Umm Hasan from Britain

عزيزي في هذا ما يتعلق بحديث النورانية اطمئني ان هذا الحديث التي تسمعينها من هنا و هنك من بعض الفضائيات او من بعض القنوات او يقرؤون لك هذه الرواية اطمئني ان هذه الرواية خبرتها و اعرفها و اعرف مواضعها و ما دليلها و اسانيدها و لكنه انا بنائي في هذه الابحاث ان اطرح  تلك الروايات الصحيحة الصريحة المجمع عليها. هذا الحديث النورانية اطمئني ليس له سند صحيح حتى في مدرسة اهل البيت فما بالك ماذا
 

My dear, with regards to all that pertains to Hadith al-Nooraniyya, rest assured that this hadith which you hear from here and there on some of the satellites and some of the channels (needless repetition in english?), or they read it, rest assured that I have looked into it, and I know it, and it's position and it's proofs and it's chains of narration, however in these examinations (/studies/researches) I present (only) those narrations that are authentic, clear and agreed upon by the majority. This hadith al-Nooraniyya, rest assured has no authentic chain of narration even in the school of Ahl al-Bayt, let alone...

بالمدارس الاخرة اذا عندما ما اطرح هذه الابحاث لا لاني لا اعرفها او لم افق عليها. أولئك الذين يطرحونها واقعا مجمعة ليسوا من اهل الاختصاص هذا اقل ما استطيع ان اقول, الحقيقة انهم ليسوا من اهل العلم هؤلاء. هؤلاء مجمعة من الجهلة لكن تلبسوا بلباس العلم و يتكلمون بمثل هذه مسائل
 

..in other schools, so when I don't present (such narrations) in these examinations (/studies/researches) it isn't because I don't know them or am not acquainted with them. In reality, those who present them are not specialists (?) that is the least that I am able to say, the truth is that they are not from the people of knowledge, they are from the people of ignorance, but they dress themselves in the garments of knowledge and talk about these issues.

 

In the second video, he says that in the Bihar, even al-Majlisi noted that it isn't authentic.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Ali_Hussain

[Student_of_Deen]

1 minute ago, Ali_Hussain said:

I tried to make a translation of the first video a while ago, I'm not sure how accurate it is, but it is more or less what he is saying:

Sayed Kamal al-Haydari: There is no authentic chain of narration for hadith al-Nooraniyya

اتصال اخر ابو حسن من بريطانيا, ام حسن من برطانيا تفضلي عفوان, ام الحسن من برطانيا
 

The next caller, Abu Hasan from Britain, Umm Hasan from Britain sorry, if you please, Umm Hasan from Britain

سلام عليكم
 

salaam 'alaykum

و عليكم السلام و رحمة الله
 

wa 'alaykum assalaam

تفضلي يا اختي
 

Please, go on sister

من فضلك سؤال الاول
 

If you please, the first question

تفضلي
 

Please, go ahead

قرات تبعا ان الامام علي ع يقول لا يقاس بنا احد من هذه الامة او يمكن يقول لا يقاس بنا احد من جميع ما خلق الله س
 

I read that Imam 'Ali ('a) said that "we cannot be compared with anyone from this umma" or "we cannot be compared with anyone from the whole of that which Allah (swt) has created

باعتبار هذه الامة افضل
 

With the words: "this umma" is better

قرات مرة ان يقول سيدنا علي ع ما يعرفنا احد الا اذا عرفنا بنورانية ماذا يقصد بهذا الا اذا عرفنا بنورانية
 

I read one time, that sayedna 'Ali ('a) said: "no one would know us, unless they know us by our light" (nooraniyya), what did he mean by this? "unless they know us by our light"

اما ما ذكرته الاول  ام حسن
 

As for what Umm Hasan mentioned first

ام حسن من برطانيا
 

Umm Hasan from Britain

عزيزي في هذا ما يتعلق بحديث النورانية اطمئني ان هذا الحديث التي تسمعينها من هنا و هنك من بعض الفضائيات او من بعض القنوات او يقرؤون لك هذه الرواية اطمئني ان هذه الرواية خبرتها و اعرفها و اعرف مواضعها و ما دليلها و اسانيدها و لكنه انا بنائي في هذه الابحاث ان اطرح  تلك الروايات الصحيحة الصريحة المجمع عليها. هذا الحديث النورانية اطمئني ليس له سند صحيح حتى في مدرسة اهل البيت فما بالك ماذا
 

My dear, with regards to all that pertains to Hadith al-Nooraniyya, rest assured that this hadith which you hear from here and there on some of the satellites and some of the channels (needless repetition in english?), or they read it, rest assured that I have looked into it, and I know it, and it's position and it's proofs and it's chains of narration, however in these examinations (/studies/researches) I present (only) those narrations that are authentic, clear and agreed upon by the majority. This hadith al-Nooraniyya, rest assured has no authentic chain of narration even in the school of Ahl al-Bayt, let alone...

بالمدارس الاخرة اذا عندما ما اطرح هذه الابحاث لا لاني لا اعرفها او لم افق عليها. أولئك الذين يطرحونها واقعا مجمعة ليسوا من اهل الاختصاص هذا اقل ما استطيع ان اقول, الحقيقة انهم ليسوا من اهل العلم هؤلاء. هؤلاء مجمعة من الجهلة لكن تلبسوا بلباس العلم و يتكلمون بمثل هذه مسائل
 

..in other schools, so when I don't present (such narrations) in these examinations (/studies/researches) it isn't because I don't know them or am not acquainted with them. In reality, those who present them are not specialists (?) that is the least that I am able to say, the truth is that they are not from the people of knowledge, they are from the people of ignorance, but they dress themselves in the garments of knowledge and talk about these issues.

BaarakAllahu feek for the translation. 

So the entire narration is doubtful due to it`s chain of it`s narration ? then it means that particular scholar in that video is at fault for narrating it without telling people about it`s authenticity.

[Ali_Hussain]

6 minutes ago, Student_of_Deen said:

BaarakAllahu feek for the translation. 

So the entire narration is doubtful due to it`s chain of it`s narration ? then it means that particular scholar in that video is at fault for narrating it without telling people about it`s authenticity.

The speakers that Anti-Majoos quotes have no manhaj for authenticating narrations other than their desires, so for them and their audience, it probably is authentic, but upon what basis? Basically that it sounds good or fits in with their beliefs.

As one of the extremists said: "I feel drawn to every narration that has a weak sanad"

'nuf said

Edited February 23, 2016 by Ali_Hussain

[Student_of_Deen]

1 hour ago, Modi0001 said:

I agree. This video is also interesting regarding the burning of Fatima (a.s) house:

Anyone who knows if the things he points out in the video (such as there was never a door at Fatima A.S house etc.) are true?

i want to know that as well if there was a door at the house of Imam Ali (ra). i don`t know about it but i`ve heard of some reports which says Umar bin al Khattab (ra) didn`t had a door at his door, but only a curtain hanging from the ceiling to prevent anyone from looking inside. Imam Ali (ra) was also financially poor so it is possible for his house to not have a door. 

[Student_of_Deen]

3 minutes ago, Ali_Hussain said:

The speakers that Anti-Majoos quotes have no manhaj for authenticating narrations other than their desires, so for them and their audience, it probably is authentic, but upon what basis? Basically that it sounds good or fits in with their beliefs.

As one of the extremists said: "I feel drawn to every narration that has a weak sanad"

i see he`s not a ithna Ahseri Shia, thanks for the clarification.

but who was that extremist ?

trust me there are many people like him who don`t want to let go of weak narrations even if someone tells them that it goes agaisnt the foundations of Islam. 

[Abu Nasr]

3 minutes ago, Student_of_Deen said:

i want to know that as well if there was a door at the house of Imam Ali (ra). i don`t know about it but i`ve heard of some reports which says Umar bin al Khattab (ra) didn`t had a door at his door, but only a curtain hanging from the ceiling to prevent anyone from looking inside. Imam Ali (ra) was also financially poor so it is possible for his house to not have a door. 

It would not be due to poorness though. It is a matter of Tawakkul. Imam Gazali explains it very well in one of his books.

[Student_of_Deen]

19 minutes ago, Abu Nasr said:

It would not be due to poorness though. It is a matter of Tawakkul. Imam Gazali explains it very well in one of his books.

but what about the hadith in which the Prophet (Peace be upon him) told the man to tie his camel then trust in Allah ?

[Ali_Hussain]

30 minutes ago, Student_of_Deen said:

i see he`s not a ithna Ahseri Shia, thanks for the clarification.

but who was that extremist ?

trust me there are many people like him who don`t want to let go of weak narrations even if someone tells them that it goes agaisnt the foundations of Islam. 

No, the vast majority of people on that channel are Imami Ithna 'Ashari, that isn't what I'm saying, they are just out and out deviants.

 

[أبو فاطمة المحمدي]

39 minutes ago, Student_of_Deen said:

but what about the hadith in which the Prophet (Peace be upon him) told the man to tie his camel then trust in Allah ?

You found that in al-Kafi, or in one of the Umayyad hadith books?

[sunnilove2hussain]

1 hour ago, أبو فاطمة المحمدي said:

You found that in al-Kafi, or in one of the Umayyad hadith books?

ummayad hadith books or 18th century new age fantasies?

[Umayyad]

7 hours ago, Ali_Hussain said:

The speakers that Anti-Majoos quotes have no manhaj for authenticating narrations other than their desires, so for them and their audience, it probably is authentic, but upon what basis? Basically that it sounds good or fits in with their beliefs.

As one of the extremists said: "I feel drawn to every narration that has a weak sanad"

'nuf said

Yassir Al habib and Qazwini have no methodology interesting. You might be right. Which is problematic. You would never find a sunni scholar at mediocre level quoting weak hadith so clearly. 

[ShiaMan14]

3 minutes ago, Umayyad said:

Yassir Al habib and Qazwini have no methodology interesting. You might be right. Which is problematic. You would never find a sunni scholar at mediocre level quoting weak hadith so clearly. 

Yasir Al-Habib is not even Shia. He is mocked by us more than by others.

I have found some pretty mediocre sunni scholars quoting pretty mediocre hadith...Google "Allah has feet" and you will find it.

[Umayyad]

2 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

Yasir Al-Habib is not even Shia. He is mocked by us more than by others.

I have found some pretty mediocre sunni scholars quoting pretty mediocre hadith...Google "Allah has feet" and you will find it.

Cool story bro. However i wait for mr Ali H reply

[أبو فاطمة المحمدي]

6 hours ago, Umayyad said:

Yassir Al habib and Qazwini have no methodology interesting. You might be right. Which is problematic. You would never find a sunni scholar at mediocre level quoting weak hadith so clearly. 

What about those who quote ahadith about Allah's "shin" and "feet"?

[Student_of_Deen]

12 hours ago, أبو فاطمة المحمدي said:

You found that in al-Kafi, or in one of the Umayyad hadith books?

was i asking you ? why did you jumped in without seeing the seeing the context of the thread ? 

if the Umayyad Hadith books are not trustworthy then what is your proof your scholars of hadith were trustworthy ? because they were running their own private businesses built on the fake hadiths they made up ?

 

[Student_of_Deen]

11 hours ago, sunnilove2hussain said:

ummayad hadith books or 18th century new age fantasies?

well said, there are sum people who are only here in order to disrupt every thread with their ignorance.

[Umayyad]

11 hours ago, أبو فاطمة المحمدي said:

What about those who quote ahadith about Allah's "shin" and "feet"?

Can you show me any weakeness in the chain of each of those?  

[أبو فاطمة المحمدي]

42 minutes ago, Umayyad said:

Can you show me any weakeness in the chain of each of those?  

In other words, you believe that Allah really has body parts like "shin" and "feet"?

[Umayyad]

52 minutes ago, أبو فاطمة المحمدي said:

In other words, you believe that Allah really has body parts like "shin" and "feet"?

Do you believe Allah has hands as the Quran says he has hands or do you give it a metaphorical meaning if so why dont you treat those ahadith in the same manner.

And since you are putting words into my mouth i will no longer take your posts serios ;)

[أبو فاطمة المحمدي]

6 minutes ago, Umayyad said:

Do you believe Allah has hands as the Quran says he has hands or do you give it a metaphorical meaning if so why dont you treat those ahadith in the same manner.

And since you are putting words into my mouth i will no longer take your posts serios ;)

You know very well that, being a Shi'i, I am not an anthropomorphist. So, those questions were needless.

Meanwhile, I am asking about your own 'aqidah. Do you believe that Allah has body parts?

[Umayyad]

11 hours ago, أبو فاطمة المحمدي said:

You know very well that, being a Shi'i, I am not an anthropomorphist. So, those questions were needless.

Meanwhile, I am asking about your own 'aqidah. Do you believe that Allah has body parts?

First it does not matter if you a shi3i or a yahudi, the topic is not about it, its about how sunnis and shi3is treat hadith. Shia scholars just throw around hadith regardless of the authenticity, i made the argument that sunni scholars would never do so. Those hadith that mention Allah having a leg are still sahih in terms of chain, and there are different interpretation given to them just as there are different interpretation given to the verses in the Quran that mention the Face or the Hand of Allah.

As for my Aqida that doesnt matter because is not part of the topic. Just as your aqida does not matter as it is not part of the topic. Stay on the topic which is shia and sunni scholars.

[Ali_Hussain]

On 23/2/2016 at 11:56 PM, Umayyad said:

Yassir Al habib and Qazwini have no methodology interesting. You might be right. Which is problematic. You would never find a sunni scholar at mediocre level quoting weak hadith so clearly. 

What about Abu Hanifa?

You can find other scholars who authentic narrations that other scholars deem weak,

I have come across other example, such as al-Hakim al-Nishapuri in al-Mustarak, he says that the hadith in which the Prophet Adam (a) used our Prophet (s) so that Allah (swt) would forgive him.

مستدرك الحاكم - كتاب تواريخ المتقدمين - ومن كتاب آيات... - رقم الحديث : ( 4228 )

4194 - حدثنا : أبو سعيد عمرو بن محمد بن منصور العدل ، ثنا : أبو الحسن محمد بن إسحاق بن إبراهيم الحنظلي ، ثنا : أبو الحارث عبد الله بن مسلم الفهري ، ثنا : إسمعيل بن مسلمة : ، أنبأ : عبد الرحمن بن زيد بن أسلم ، عن : أبيه ، عن : جده ، عن : عمر إبن الخطاب (ر) قال : قال رسول الله (ص) : لما إقترف آدم الخطيئة قال : يا رب أسألك بحق محمد لما غفرت لي فقال الله : يا آدم وكيف عرفت محمداً ولم أخلقه ؟ قال : يا رب لأنك لما خلقتني بيدك ونفخت في من روحك رفعت رأسي فرأيت على قوائم العرش مكتوباً لا إله إلا الله محمد رسول الله فعلمت أنك لم تضف إلى إسمك إلا أحب الخلق إليك فقال الله : صدقت يا آدم إنه لأحب الخلق إلي إدعني بحقه فقد غفرت لك ولولا محمد ما خلقتك ، هذا حديث صحيح الإسناد ،وهو أول حديث ذكرته لعبد الرحمن بن زيد بن أسلم في هذا الكتاب.

But other scholars have shown that in Sunni scholarship, the chain is weak.

I'm sure that there are many examples of this, because often, that is what the refutations of sayed al-Haydari come down to, "Ok, that author of book x may have claimed that the narration is authentic, but in reality it isn't because of x y and z.

[Umayyad]

24 minutes ago, Ali_Hussain said:

What about Abu Hanifa?

You can find other scholars who authentic narrations that other scholars deem weak,

I have come across other example, such as al-Hakim al-Nishapuri in al-Mustarak, he says that the hadith in which the Prophet Adam (a) used our Prophet (s) so that Allah (swt) would forgive him.

مستدرك الحاكم - كتاب تواريخ المتقدمين - ومن كتاب آيات... - رقم الحديث : ( 4228 )

4194 - حدثنا : أبو سعيد عمرو بن محمد بن منصور العدل ، ثنا : أبو الحسن محمد بن إسحاق بن إبراهيم الحنظلي ، ثنا : أبو الحارث عبد الله بن مسلم الفهري ، ثنا : إسمعيل بن مسلمة : ، أنبأ : عبد الرحمن بن زيد بن أسلم ، عن : أبيه ، عن : جده ، عن : عمر إبن الخطاب (ر) قال : قال رسول الله (ص) : لما إقترف آدم الخطيئة قال : يا رب أسألك بحق محمد لما غفرت لي فقال الله : يا آدم وكيف عرفت محمداً ولم أخلقه ؟ قال : يا رب لأنك لما خلقتني بيدك ونفخت في من روحك رفعت رأسي فرأيت على قوائم العرش مكتوباً لا إله إلا الله محمد رسول الله فعلمت أنك لم تضف إلى إسمك إلا أحب الخلق إليك فقال الله : صدقت يا آدم إنه لأحب الخلق إلي إدعني بحقه فقد غفرت لك ولولا محمد ما خلقتك ، هذا حديث صحيح الإسناد ،وهو أول حديث ذكرته لعبد الرحمن بن زيد بن أسلم في هذا الكتاب.

But other scholars have shown that in Sunni scholarship, the chain is weak.

I'm sure that there are many examples of this, because often, that is what the refutations of sayed al-Haydari come down to, "Ok, that author of book x may have claimed that the narration is authentic, but in reality it isn't because of x y and z.

I am not talking about disputed narrations. I am talking about narrations that are weakened by all (such as narrations with out chains, missing people in the chain or people who are weak in the chain according to every book of rijal that mention such person).  You would find any sunni scholars throwing around such hadith as if they are authentic yet we do find that with the Shia. 

As for your last point about Kamal al Haydari im not sure i understood you so if you could explain again that would be appreciated. 

[Ali_Hussain]

8 minutes ago, Umayyad said:

I am not talking about disputed narrations. I am talking about narrations that are weakened by all (such as narrations with out chains, missing people in the chain or people who are weak in the chain according to every book of rijal that mention such person).  You would find any sunni scholars throwing around such hadith as if they are authentic yet we do find that with the Shia. 

As for your last point about Kamal al Haydari im not sure i understood you so if you could explain again that would be appreciated. 

Yeah sure, some of the narrations that certain so-called scholars bring out, and try to make theological points on are embarrassing, no doubt. It many cases, it isn't even about the methodology, as you say some people bring out stuff that doesn't even have a chain of narration.

About al-Haydari, I meant that you quotes a hadith, and shows that the author of the book authenticated it, but other scholars can show flaws it's chain.

[أبو فاطمة المحمدي]

1 hour ago, Umayyad said:

As for my Aqida that doesnt matter because is not part of the topic. Just as your aqida does not matter as it is not part of the topic. Stay on the topic which is shia and sunni scholars.

Well, considering that you are openly proud Nasibi, your 'aqidah matters here, to determine the level of your najasat.

[Umayyad]

1 hour ago, أبو فاطمة المحمدي said:

Well, considering that you are openly proud Nasibi, your 'aqidah matters here, to determine the level of your najasat.

Not taking the bait boo 

[أبو فاطمة المحمدي]

42 minutes ago, Umayyad said:

Not taking the bait boo 

Umayyad = Nasibi

Umayyadism = Nasibism

Any objection?

[Student_of_Deen]

On 2/25/2016 at 2:51 PM, Umayyad said:

Not taking the bait boo 

May Allah bless you for showing better conduct here than your abuser and refusing to insult back despite being harassed by the ignorant. 

Edited February 26, 2016 by Student_of_Deen