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Student_of_Deen

the scope of Prophets and Imams infallibility according to Shi`i Manhaj

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As`salamu Alaykum Dear brothers & Sisters, 

i had a question in mind and another brother also asked the same question on this forum so i thought i should start a thread to get some clarifications. 

What is the scope of Infallibility of Prophets and Imams according to Shia beliefs ? are they absolutely above making any mistake whatsoever or can they make unintentional minor mistakes ?

Edited by Student_of_Deen

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Ayatullah Agha Haji Mirza Mahdi Pooya on page #256 under chapter III, ‘Revelation’ in his book ‘The Essence of The Holy Qur’an’( the Eternal Light) writes:

"The Infallibility of the Last Prophet (The Prophet of Islam)

And Other Prophets (Part I)"

“Therefore , unless the soul (mind and heart) is free from the influence of this lowest sphere, and is released from the narrow bents of animal instincts and sexual desire and unless the mind is raised to the zenith of creative intellect, it cannot become the ground for receiving the entire light, i.e, the exact and undisturbed information and suggestion dispatched from the angelical sphere of higher order. The angelical spheres range from the first immaterial sphere to the highest spheres of direct and immediate communion with Absolute ( the stage of the nearest point): the Prophet, as the Qur’an indicates reached the ‘nearest point’

 

Holy Qur’an: An-Najim (The Star):v 9[53:9] Till he was (distant) two bows' length or even nearer,

 

These spheres differ from each other in comprehensiveness and in the nature of their dispatches, but there is no possibility of error in whatever the dispatch.’They do not disobey God of what He has ordered them and they do whatever they are ordered. They do not go ahead of Him in saying (or doing) and they do according to His order.

 

Holy Qur’an: At-Tahrim (The Prohibition):v 6[Pickthal 66:6] O ye who believe! Ward off from yourselves and your families a Fire whereof the fuel is men and stones, over which are set angels strong, severe, who resist not Allah in that which He commandeth them, but do that which they are commanded.

 

There is no confusion whatsoever in the higher spheres. They are free from all profaneness of the material world.

 

Holy Qur’an: Abasa (He Froned): v 13-16: [

80:13] On honoured leaves

80:14] Exalted, purified,

80:15] (Set down) by scribes

80:16] Noble and righteous.

 

So, also must be the receiving station, the human mind which is the recipient. It must be free from the impediments of temporal life and the bondage of the material world. So long as the zenith of the human mind, the intellect, is drawn toward its base, the material and sensual ground, man is liable to commit mistakes in both theory and practice, whatever may be the source of information and suggestion.

 

Holy Qur’an: Al-A’araaf (The Heights):v 175-176

 

[Pickthal 7:175] Recite unto them the tale of him to whom We gave Our revelations, but he sloughed them off, so Satan overtook him and he became of those who lead astray.

 

[Pickthal 7:176] And had We willed We could have raised him by their means, but he clung to the earth and followed his own lust. Therefor his likeness is as the likeness of a dog: if thou attackest him he panteth with his tongue out, and if thou leavest him he panteth with his tongue out. Such is the likeness of the people who deny Our revelations. Narrate unto them the history (of the men of old), that haply they may take thought.

 

Being in possession of signs man should have been raised. But he detached himself from the sign bestowed on him by God and he was drawn downward toward the earth. But if he the whole edifice of the human mind from the base upward is drawn toward the zenith, i.e, the active intellect, and is totally controlled by it, then the zenith can become a pure refined recipient ground. It becomes capable of receiving light from the above as exactly as it is dispatched. It will be also capable of judging precisely the truth and the value of what is received from below. In short, the pure contents of the worlds of purity cannot be reached but by the pure and purified minds.

 

Holy Qur’an: Al-Waaqia (The Inevitable):v.75-79

56:75] Nay, I swear by the places of the stars -

56:76] And lo! that verily is a tremendous oath, if ye but knew -

56:77] That (this) is indeed a noble Qur'an

56:78] In a Book kept hidden

56:79] Which none toucheth save the purified,

 

Holy Qur’an: Al-Bayyina (The Evidence):v.1-3

[98:1] Those who disbelieve among the People of the Scripture and the idolaters could not have left off (erring) till the clear proof came unto them,

[ 98:2] A messenger from Allah, reading purified pages

[98:3] Containing correct scriptures.

 

In essence, no one touches it but those who are purified. To establish direct and infallible connect with the heavenly kingdom and the spheres beyond the material one, the mind should be completely refined and free from the fetters of this material world.

 

This is what Qur’an means by the term ‘MUTTAHRUN’, Purified ones, ‘SUHAFAN MUTTAHIRA’, Purified books, ‘MUSTAFAUN, Chosen and refined, and ‘MUKHLISIN, Servents of God freed from sinning.

 

Holy Qur’an: SAAD (The Letter ‘Saad’): V. 46-47,83

[38:46] Lo! We purified them with a pure thought, remembrance of the Home (of the Hereafter).

[38:47] Lo! in Our sight they are verily of the elect, the excellent.

[38:83] Save Thy single-minded slaves among them.


 

‘We have freed, released them from all concerns but the remembrance of the abode (the heavenly or eternal kingdom).’

 

It does not mean that they are not in this material world in this lowest sphere. They are in it but they are not attached to it.’Ali says, ‘They (the true servents of God) have accompanied this lowest world of matter with their bodies, the souls of which are attached to the spheres of higher order. Had not the fixed term been ordained by God for them (to remain here), their souls would not have remained in their bodies.(15)

 

In other words, the purity of mind as opposed to its impurity (Rijis). It means complete control of the active intellect over the whole structure of mind including its material base on the one hand, and absolute submission of the active intellect as recipient ground to the spheres of higher order on the other. This is the state of divine revelation.

 

Holy Qur’an: Al-An’aam (The Cattle):v 50

[ 6:50] Say (O Muhammad, to the disbelievers): I say not unto you (that) I possess the treasures of Allah, nor that I have knowledge of the Unseen; and I say not unto you: Lo! I am an angel. I follow only that which is inspired in me. Say: Are the blind man and the seer equal? Will ye not then take thought?


 

The Holy Prophet’s answer to all the questions raised by anyone: the believers, unbelievers, sceptics, heretics, hypocrites, friends and foe was a divine revelation to unveil the truth.

 

Thus, the body is controlled and governed by the mind and its faculties. The mind in turn is controlled and governed by the active intellect, which in turn is fully controlled and governed by the divine will dispatched to it, direct, or through the angels. Such an accomplished person, though he shares, with other men all aspects of humanity ( a human being like you), yet he is distinguished from the rest of mankind, by not only being the recipient of the revelation (16) (I FOLLOW NOTHING BUT WHAT IS REVEALED TO ME.’)

 

Holy Qur’an: Al-Kahf (The Cave): v.110[Pickthal 18:110] Say: I am only a mortal like you. My Lord inspireth in me that your Allah is only One Allah. And whoever hopeth for the meeting with his Lord, let him do righteous work, and make none sharer of the worship due unto his Lord.


 

He should be so fully controlled by the divine will dispatched to him, that his life becomes the embodiment of divine will. His will is the will of God.

 

Holy Qur’an: An-Nisa (The Women):v.110

[ 18:110] Say: I am only a mortal like you. My Lord inspireth in me that your Allah is only One Allah. And whoever hopeth for the meeting with his Lord, let him do righteous work, and make none sharer of the worship due unto his Lord.


 

Holy Qur’an: Al-Anfaal (The Spoils of War): v.17

[ 8:17] Ye (Muslims) slew them not, but Allah slew them. And thou (Muhammad) threwest not when thou didst throw, but Allah threw, that He might test the believers by a fair test from Him. Lo! Allah is Hearer, Knower.


 

So, to secure the infallibility of the message the purity and infallibility of both the sources of dispatch, and the receiving mind, is necessary. With regard to the purity of the dispatching side, from God down to the last angelical sphere at its base, there can be no doubt. The question is about the purity of the receiving side—the receiver which is the active intellect, the zenith of the mind. The zenith cannot be pure unless the whole of the mind and its faculties from the base are pure. The purity of mind and its faculties mean harmonious functioning of all the physical and physical parts of mental mechanism towards actualization of the potential intellect and the development of the active intellect. There should be nothing wrong anywhere, even for a moment, in the progressive movement towards attaining the state of active intellect. Every part of the mechanism should be perfect. Otherwise any drawback anywhere at any stage of the process would mean a fall in the degree of attainment and in the active aspect of the intellect; a fall in the height of the zenith. In other words the ego should always be alive to its incessant needs and should always look upwards submissively and ask for help.”



 

On page # 269 he further explains:

 

”But keeping in mind what has already been explained in light of the Qur’an and sound reasoning, One has to come to the conclusion that WITHOUT PURITY AND INFALLIBILITY OF THE RECEIVING GROUND, NO REVELATION CAN BE TAKEN AS COMPLETELY RIGHT AND DIVINE IF NO MARGIN CAN BE FIXED FOR THE DIVINE AND THE PROFANE STATES OF THE RECEiVING MIND, AND AS SUCH THE REPRESENTATIVE STATUS OF THE PROPHET AND VICEGERENTS OF GOD WOULD BE SHAKEN TO THE GROUND”

 

On page #281:

 

“Here the first man, the top entity in the arc of ascent received knowledge directly from God, of the things which the angels did not know. It was the knowledge of the names of certain conscious entities of high order (‘aleen). Those entities were other than angels and jinns. They were the entities whose names could be made known to Adam, by God directly and the angles and the other being of lower order through the medium of Adam. They were those who could at one and the same time represent God in all spheres of creation, and creatures of all spheres before God. They are the entities who due to the highest degree of their recipiency, submissiveness and devotion to the Absolute, have attained the nearest possible stage of direct communion with Him on one side, and due to their utmost paternal affection and love of His creatures have come closer and nearer to every being, than the being itself or himself—a stage of ‘AULA-BIL-MOMININ, ‘A GREATER CLAIM ON THE SELVES OF THE BELIEVERS, ‘ which refers to the Prophet:


Holy Qur’an: Al-Ahzaab (The Clans):v.6[ 33:6] The Prophet is closer to the believers than their selves, and his wives are (as) their mothers. And the owners of kinship are closer one to another in the ordinance of Allah than (other) believers and the fugitives (who fled from Mecca), except that ye should do kindness to your friends. This is written in the Book (of nature).”

*****

http://www.al-islam.org/faith-and-reason-ayatullah-mahdi-hadavi-tehrani/question-21-infallibility-prophets-quran

http://www.al-islam.org/shiite-encyclopedia-ahlul-bayt-dilp-team/infallibility-prophets-part-1

http://www.al-islam.org/shiite-encyclopedia-ahlul-bayt-dilp-team/infallibility-prophets-part-2

http://www.al-islam.org/shiite-encyclopedia-ahlul-bayt-dilp-team/leadership-and-infallibility-part-1

http://www.al-islam.org/a-shiite-creed-shaykh-saduq/concerning-infallibility-isma

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1 hour ago, Student_of_Deen said:

As`salamu Alaykum Dear brothers & Sisters, 

i had a question in mind and another brother also asked the same question on this forum so i thought i should start a thread to get some clarifications. 

What is the scope of Infallibility of Prophets and Imams according to Shia beliefs ? are they absolutely above making any mistake whatsoever or can they make unintentional minor mistakes ?

Quick answer:

how do you see Allah commanding us to obey -with no question- some one who may make mistake? does he deserve to be obeyed such way?

And whatever the Messenger gives you, accept it, and from whatever he forbids you, keep back And be careful of( your duty to )Allah Surely Allah is severe in retribution( evil )( 59: 7 )

O you who believe! obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority from among you (4:59)

 

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1 hour ago, mahdi servant.01 said:

Quick answer:

That is more like a quick question. You can't proof something by pointing to the impracticality of something else. In addition you can't proof something without addressing the apparent contradictions with the Qur'an in your claim as they might be actual contradictions.

 For example if it is said:

2 hours ago, S.M.H.A. said:

’They do not disobey God of what He has ordered them and they do whatever they are ordered. They do not go ahead of Him in saying (or doing) and they do according to His order.

How do you deal with the verse:

66:1
Sahih International
O Prophet, why do you prohibit [yourself from] what Allah has made lawful for you, seeking the approval of your wives? And Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

How do you deal with the verse:

28:15
Sahih International
And he entered the city at a time of inattention by its people and found therein two men fighting: one from his faction and one from among his enemy. And the one from his faction called for help to him against the one from his enemy, so Moses struck him and [unintentionally] killed him. [Moses] said, "This is from the work of Satan. Indeed, he is a manifest, misleading enemy."

 
28:16
Sahih International
He said, "My Lord, indeed I have wronged myself, so forgive me," and He forgave him. Indeed, He is the Forgiving, the Merciful.

 
28:17
Sahih International
He said, "My Lord, for the favor You bestowed upon me, I will never be an assistant to the criminals."

How do you deal with the verse:

2:35
Sahih International
And We said, "O Adam, dwell, you and your wife, in Paradise and eat therefrom in [ease and] abundance from wherever you will. But do not approach this tree, lest you be among the wrongdoers."

2:36
Sahih International
But Satan caused them to slip out of it and removed them from that [condition] in which they had been. And We said, "Go down, [all of you], as enemies to one another, and you will have upon the earth a place of settlement and provision for a time."

 
2:37
Sahih International
Then Adam received from his Lord [some] words, and He accepted his repentance. Indeed, it is He who is the Accepting of repentance, the Merciful.

And multiple other verses? But to answer your question:

1 hour ago, mahdi servant.01 said:

how do you see Allah commanding us to obey -with no question- some one who may make mistake?

- By making sure that he makes no mistake when commanding.

-By correcting every mistake.

1 hour ago, mahdi servant.01 said:

does he deserve to be obeyed such way?

If Allah promises that you will not be lead astray, yes

1 hour ago, mahdi servant.01 said:

And whatever the Messenger gives you, accept it, and from whatever he forbids you, keep back And be careful of( your duty to )Allah Surely Allah is severe in retribution( evil )( 59: 7 )

O you who believe! obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority from among you (4:59)

So that means that whenever the Messenger gives you something he is not making a mistake or will be corrected by Allah. Whenever the Messenger is forbidding you something, he is not making a mistake or will be corrected.

The question is not whether someone is infallible in delivering a message. That is agreed upon. The question is whether someone is infallible all the time, in all aspects of human life. For example, someone may have an infallible memory, meaning he will never make a mistake when he says that he remembered somthing. That doesn't mean he is infallible in making judgments.

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1 hour ago, mahdi servant.01 said:

Quick answer:

how do you see Allah commanding us to obey -with no question- some one who may make mistake? does he deserve to be obeyed such way?

And whatever the Messenger gives you, accept it, and from whatever he forbids you, keep back And be careful of( your duty to )Allah Surely Allah is severe in retribution( evil )( 59: 7 )

O you who believe! obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority from among you (4:59)

 

the ayahs you posted are about the teaching and obedience of the Messenger (Peace be upon him). obviously no person can question that and remain a Muslim. 

i`m asking you about their scope of Infallibility. do you believe they cannot make an error as small as a an eye of a bee (i.e absolutely above making any mistake) ?

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2 hours ago, S.M.H.A. said:

On page # 269 he further explains:

”But keeping in mind what has already been explained in light of the Qur’an and sound reasoning, One has to come to the conclusion that WITHOUT PURITY AND INFALLIBILITY OF THE RECEIVING GROUND, NO REVELATION CAN BE TAKEN AS COMPLETELY RIGHT AND DIVINE IF NO MARGIN CAN BE FIXED FOR THE DIVINE AND THE PROFANE STATES OF THE RECEiVING MIND, AND AS SUCH THE REPRESENTATIVE STATUS OF THE PROPHET AND VICEGERENTS OF GOD WOULD BE SHAKEN TO THE GROUND”

 

On page #281:

“Here the first man, the top entity in the arc of ascent received knowledge directly from God, of the things which the angels did not know. It was the knowledge of the names of certain conscious entities of high order (‘aleen). Those entities were other than angels and jinns. They were the entities whose names could be made known to Adam, by God directly and the angles and the other being of lower order through the medium of Adam. They were those who could at one and the same time represent God in all spheres of creation, and creatures of all spheres before God. They are the entities who due to the highest degree of their recipiency, submissiveness and devotion to the Absolute, have attained the nearest possible stage of direct communion with Him on one side, and due to their utmost paternal affection and love of His creatures have come closer and nearer to every being, than the being itself or himself—a stage of ‘AULA-BIL-MOMININ, ‘A GREATER CLAIM ON THE SELVES OF THE BELIEVERS, ‘ which refers to the Prophet:


Holy Qur’an: Al-Ahzaab (The Clans):v.6[ 33:6] The Prophet is closer to the believers than their selves, and his wives are (as) their mothers. And the owners of kinship are closer one to another in the ordinance of Allah than (other) believers and the fugitives (who fled from Mecca), except that ye should do kindness to your friends. This is written in the Book (of nature).”

BaarakAllahu feek for the post, but this doesn't answers my question. i`m asking the degree of their infallibility according to Shia beliefs.

Do you believe them to be absolutely infallible or is there any scope that they can make minor unintentional mistakes ?

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وَالنَّجْمِ إِذَا هَوَىٰ {1}

[Pickthal 53:1] By the Star when it setteth,

مَا ضَلَّ صَاحِبُكُمْ وَمَا غَوَىٰ {2}

[Pickthal 53:2] Your comrade erreth not, nor is deceived;

وَمَا يَنْطِقُ عَنِ الْهَوَىٰ {3}

[Pickthal 53:3] Nor doth he speak of (his own) desire.

إِنْ هُوَ إِلَّا وَحْيٌ يُوحَىٰ {4}

[Pickthal 53:4] It is naught save an inspiration that is inspired,

عَلَّمَهُ شَدِيدُ الْقُوَىٰ {5}

[Pickthal 53:5] Which one of mighty powers hath taught him,

*****

يس {1}

[Pickthal 36:1] Ya Sin.

وَالْقُرْآنِ الْحَكِيمِ {2}

[Pickthal 36:2] By the wise Qur'an,

إِنَّكَ لَمِنَ الْمُرْسَلِينَ {3}

[Pickthal 36:3] Lo! thou art of those sent

عَلَىٰ صِرَاطٍ مُسْتَقِيمٍ {4}

[Pickthal 36:4] On a straight path,

*****

هُوَ الَّذِي أَنْزَلَ عَلَيْكَ الْكِتَابَ مِنْهُ آيَاتٌ مُحْكَمَاتٌ هُنَّ أُمُّ الْكِتَابِ وَأُخَرُ مُتَشَابِهَاتٌ ۖ فَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ فِي قُلُوبِهِمْ زَيْغٌ فَيَتَّبِعُونَ مَا تَشَابَهَ مِنْهُ ابْتِغَاءَ الْفِتْنَةِ وَابْتِغَاءَ تَأْوِيلِهِ ۗ وَمَا يَعْلَمُ تَأْوِيلَهُ إِلَّا اللَّهُ ۗ وَالرَّاسِخُونَ فِي الْعِلْمِ يَقُولُونَ آمَنَّا بِهِ كُلٌّ مِنْ عِنْدِ رَبِّنَا ۗ وَمَا يَذَّكَّرُ إِلَّا أُولُو الْأَلْبَابِ {7}

[Shakir 3:7] He it is Who has revealed the Book to you; some of its verses are decisive, they are the basis of the Book, and others are allegorical; then as for those in whose hearts there is perversity they follow the part of it which is allegorical, seeking to mislead and seeking to give it (their own) interpretation. but none knows its interpretation except Allah, and those who are firmly rooted in knowledge say: We believe in it, it is all from our Lord; and none do mind except those having understanding.


[Pickthal 3:7] He it is Who hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture wherein are clear revelations - they are the substance of the Book - and others (which are) allegorical. But those in whose hearts is doubt pursue, forsooth, that which is allegorical seeking (to cause) dissension by seeking to explain it. None knoweth its explanation save Allah. And those who are of sound instruction say: We believe therein; the whole is from our Lord; but only men of understanding really heed.


[Yusufali 3:7] He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.


[Pooya/Ali Commentary 3:7]

As explained in the commentary of verse 2 of al Baqarah the Quran was revealed to the Holy Prophet. He knew the true meaning of every verse, or after him, it was Ali who claimed that he knew when, why and for whom every verse of the Quran was revealed.

Most of the verses of the Quran are clear and decisive. There is no ambiguity in them. They are known as the muhkamat. They relate to the fundamentals of the faith, such as the oneness of Allah, the directions pertaining to the practice of the faith and the laws governing the day to day life of the faithful. They can neither be changed nor modified. Any man of average intelligence can understand and follow them.

The mutashabihat are the verses which have been composed in subtle and profound diction and style. They carry implications other than the literal meanings, and therefore, are capable of giving different significations, like "The hand of Allah is on their hands" in verse 10 of al Fat-h. Verse 1 of al Hud says that the Quran is a book of clear and decisive verses. Verse 23 of al Zumar says that Allah has sent down the very best discourse as a book conformable in its repetition and consimilarity. Only the men of understanding who possess a higher level of intelligence contemplate and find out the meaningful implications of such verses. Average and ordinary minds cannot figure out or have knowledge of the real purport of such verses, and if they try this on their own, they are bewildered and go astray. As mentioned in the commentary of verse 1 of al Baqarah, the huruf muqatta-at are also meaningful but their subtle and profound meanings are known to Allah and His chosen representatives (Muhammad and ali Muhammad) only. Therefore, those who know the true purport of these symbolic letters occupy the highest position in the domain of knowledge and wisdom. In the well-known tradition of thaqalayn the Holy Prophet has clearly made known the fact that whoso remains attached with the Quran and his Ahl ul Bayt, after his departure from this world, will never go astray, because these two weighty authorities will never be separated from each other, and joined together, they shall meet the Holy Prophet at the spring of Kawthar; and "I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate", said the Holy Prophet in order to guide the faithfuls so that, to have knowledge of the Quran, they must refer to Ali and his Ahl ul Bayt, who alone know the true meanings of the mutashabihat.

Zaygh means disease, perversity, evil, and wicked intention, the inclination to go against the truth and to blunder, revolt and go astray. Fitna means to create mischief, or to create difference of opinion and to mislead.

"None knows its interpretation except Allah and those (who are) firmly rooted in knowledge", renders null and void all attempts made by scholars to discover the true meanings of the mutashabihat. The firmly rooted in knowledge are those whom Allah Himself gives the knowledge, as verse 49 of al Ankabut says: But it is clear revelations in the hearts of those who have been given knowledge. Therefore, the observation of the Ahmadi commentator that reading various passages in the light of each discover the true significance of ambiguous passages, is based upon his inclination to go out of the right course. The Christians also try in vain to assign divinity to Isa by calculating the numerical value of the haruf muqatta-at, and misinterpret the complex verses to suit their dubious theories.

How the complex verses can be interpreted is not mentioned in this verse, nor anywhere in the Quran, but it is clearly disclosed that besides Allah only those, endowed with divine knowledge, know the true meanings of the mutashabihat. The firmly rooted in knowledge are the Holy Prophet and his Ahl ul Bayt, the thoroughly purified ones (Ahzab: 33), who possess the desired purity of heart and soul, essential for receiving and holding the truth in order to use it (Waqi-ah: 77 to 79) to do good to themselves and to others. It is obvious that there is no conceivable necessity of revealing complex verses or letter symbols if even the Holy Prophet, to whom the Quran was revealed, did not know their meanings. It is only a hypothetical inquiry, otherwise there is the clear mention of rasikhuna fil ilm (the firmly rooted in knowledge) in this verse, the first among whom is the Holy Prophet, and after him, as said earlier, his Ahlul Bayt are the custodians of his knowledge and wisdom, who alone are entitled to interpret every word of the Quran.

In reply to Anas bin Malik's query about rasikhuna fil ilm the Holy Prophet said:

"They are those whose hands do not do aught but that which is just, righteous and good; whose tongues do not utter aught but that which is true; whose hearts and minds are enlightened and rational; whose stomachs are free from that which is forbidden."

The ayah al tat-hir (Ahzab: 33) confirms that only the thoroughly purified Muhammad and ali Muhammad are the rasikhuna fil ilm. Verse 13 of Luqman says that polytheism(shirk) is the most grievous inequity, the worst type of impurity. It is a historical fact that all the companions of the Holy Prophet, before embracing Islam, for a long time in their lives, were idolworshippers. The Holy Prophet, Bibi Fatimah and Ali ibna abi Talib and their children were the only ones who were free from the impurity of polytheism right from the day they were born. All Muslims, in every age, add karamallahu wajhu (Allah graced and honoured his face above others) after the name of Ali, because he never worshipped any ghayrallah (other than Allah). The Holy Prophet pointed out the essential purity of body and soul in Ali, equal to his own purity, when he said:

"O Ali! Your flesh is my flesh, your blood is my blood. You and I are from one and the same divine light"

Verses 18 of Ali Imran, 162 of al Nisa, 49 of Ankabut, and 11 of al Mujadalah refer to those who have been divinely endowed with knowledge.

As ordinary human beings are unable to know the meanings of the mutashabihat, the divine mercy guides the sincere seekers of the truth to turn to the ahladh dhikr, the Holy Prophet and his Ahlul Bayt (see commentary of verse 43 of al Nahl and verse 7 of al Anbiya):

"So ask the people of dhikr (the reminder or the Quran) if you do not know."

Aqa Mahdi Puya says:

Nothing in the earth or in the heavens is hidden from Allah, the self-subsisting, because He is the author of the book of creation (the development of the embryo has been mentioned in the previous verse as an example). In this verse He says that the author of the book of creation is also the author of the book of legislation (the Quran).

The book of creation (the universe) contains miscellaneous signs. Some are clear. Some are intricate and perplexing. For example (in the book of creation) the function and the significance of every part of the human structure has been studied and defined except the "appendix". Now a rational student of the book of creation will say:

"As no part is without some significance, this also must have some meaning, though I have not yet understood it."

On the contrary a mischief-maker will mix up that which is known with that which is not known and deny both by saying:

"As no reason or significance is found in this part, therefore, there is no reason or significance in the whole."

Likewise in the book of legislation, some signs (verses) are clear and decisive (muhkam), and some have several possible meanings(mutashabih), therefore, the rational mind will try to understand the mutashabih (unclear) verses in the light of the muhkam (clear and decisive) verses, by proceeding from the known to the unknown or from the concrete to the abstract; but the perverse mind will judge that which is certainly precise and definite in the light of the complex so as to mislead people by dubious misinterpretations.

Verse 1 of al Hud says that all the verses of the book are well arranged and firmly established. The arrangement of the words in the verses and the verses in the surahs is so accurate and proper that they all form a consistent unity, though they were separately revealed. It implies that the Quran was already arranged and established before its revelation, which is confirmed by verse 105 of Bani Israil. In verse 23 of al Zumar, the book is presented as consistent, consimilar and conformable in its parts (mutashabihan). But in this verse mutashabihat refers to the meanings, the implications, the connotations and the denotations of the complex passages.

Muhtam (clear) and mutashabih (complex) are relative terms. What is unclear to some may be apparent and definite to others. There may be quite a few features and viewpoints inherent in certain ideas, or commands, or narrations. Studying them from a particular angle will make their meaning and purpose crystal clear but their clarity may turn into obscurity when they are viewed from another standpoint. At all events, the complex should be examined and interpreted in the light of that which is clear and decisive, or as explained by the Holy Prophet, or by those whose authority has been established by the Holy Prophet and the Quran (see pages 1 to 7, commentary of verses 6 and 7 of al Fatihah, and verses 2, 30 to 37 and 124 of al Baqarah). In the light of verses 16 to 19 of al Qiyamah, the divine agency collects, recites and interprets the Quran. As the book is a guidance for mankind, there should be no unintelligible or incomprehensible passage in it. There is none. As asserted by the Ahlul Bayt, rasikhuna fil ilm is conjuncted with Allah and yaquluna is an adverbial clause qualifying the state of knowledge, referring to rasikhun. In the Nahj al Balagha, Ali ibna abi Talib says that the rasikhuna fil ilm believe in the unknown in the light of the known. As explained in the commentary of verse 3 of al Baqarah the knowledge of the ghayb (unknown) is with the infinite, therefore, the awareness of the finite created beings, even if they are endowed with the divine insight, cannot be at par with the absolute wisdom of theghayb ul mutlaq, the hayyul qayyum creator. All that which becomes (in obedience) effective, as soon as He wills, is knowable to man. A finite being can know as much as the infinite all-wise likes him to know and grow in knowledge, which implies that basically his knowledge was insufficient but he rises towards the level of perfection, with the help of divine endowment, on his own merits, to become aware of the meanings of all that which has been revealed in the book, because, if it is not so, such revelations (mutashabihat) would be unprofitable and frustrating. So what Imam Ali ibna abi Talib and Imam Muhammad bin Ali al Baqir have said in this connection is true.

http://quran.al-islam.org/

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21 minutes ago, GreatChineseFall said:

The question is not whether someone is infallible in delivering a message. That is agreed upon. The question is whether someone is infallible all the time, in all aspects of human life. For example, someone may have an infallible memory, meaning he will never make a mistake when he says that he remembered something. That doesn't mean he is infallible in making judgments.

 

BaarakAllahu feek for explaining the question, much appreciated. i also want to give credit for this thread because it was your question which made me start it. :)

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@S.M.H.A. my dear why are you trying to prove the infallibility of the Prophet (Peace be upon him) ? you don`t need to do it because i`m not question his infallibility altogether. 

i`m only asking what is the degree of the Infallibility of the Prophets and Imams as per your beliefs ? can they make any minor mistakes unintentionally or are they absolutely free from making errors ?

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4 hours ago, Student_of_Deen said:

As`salamu Alaykum Dear brothers & Sisters, 

i had a question in mind and another brother also asked the same question on this forum so i thought i should start a thread to get some clarifications. 

What is the scope of Infallibility of Prophets and Imams according to Shia beliefs ? are they absolutely above making any mistake whatsoever or can they make unintentional minor mistakes ?

W. A. Salaam,

One of the differences between Shia and Sunna is about the traits of the successor of the Prophet s.a.w.a.

Sunnis believe that the successor only needs to be just ('aadil), whereas Shias maintain that he should be infallible (ma'soom).

The difference between justice and infallibility is that the former means refraining from committing great sins and staying away from repeating minor sins. The latter, however, suggests a much higher level, i.e. refraining from any type of error and mistake.

There is, nevertheless, a number of Shia scholars who do not see this extent of infallibility necessary for the Imam.

Peace

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I don't understand. You put emphasis on following the Sunnah of the Prophet s.a.w. which varies from how to enter the toilet, speech, how to threat your wife, what fruit to eat and how many, on what side to lay while sleeping so for any major to any minimal detail in life there is a Sunnah. Yet you claim the Prophet s.a.w made mistakes.

Edited by Trojan

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20 minutes ago, Trojan said:

I don't understand. You put emphasis on following the Sunnah of the Prophet s.a.w. which varies from how to enter the toilet, speech, how to threat your wife, what fruit to eat and how many, on what side to lay while sleeping so for any major to any minimal detail in life there is a Sunnah. Yet you claim the Prophet s.a.w made mistakes.

i will answer your questions In`sha Allah but at least refer to the topic of this thread and first share your own views before asking a question.

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44 minutes ago, sadegh said:

W. A. Salaam,

One of the differences between Shia and Sunna is about the traits of the successor of the Prophet s.a.w.a.

Sunnis believe that the successor only needs to be just ('aadil), whereas Shias maintain that he should be infallible (ma'soom).

The difference between justice and infallibility is that the former means refraining from committing great sins and staying away from repeating minor sins. The latter, however, suggests a much higher level, i.e. refraining from any type of error and mistake.

There is, nevertheless, a number of Shia scholars who do not see this extent of infallibility necessary for the Imam.

Peace

thank you for the post but you didn`t understood my question. 

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37 minutes ago, Student_of_Deen said:

thank you for the post but you didn`t understood my question. 

But I think I did understand your question precisely and it is a very common question. And I think I answered it. Let me rewrite my post, so it might be more understandable.

Muslim scholars have mentioned three levels of infallibility for the Imams:

1. The very minimal level which should not be considered infallibility in a precise language, and that is what Sunnis believe regarding the successors of the Prophet s.a.w., i.e. justice.

2. The average level which is the infallibility of committing sins. So in this sense, it is possible that they make mistakes or errors, and a small number of Shia scholars believe in this level of infallibility for the Imams.

3. The absolute infallibility which requires that they should not even make mistakes in their lives. This level of infallibility is the most commonly accepted view among Shia scholars.

Any further ambiguity?

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إِنَّمَا وَلِيُّكُمُ اللَّهُ وَرَسُولُهُ وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا الَّذِينَ يُقِيمُونَ الصَّلَاةَ وَيُؤْتُونَ الزَّكَاةَ وَهُمْ رَاكِعُونَ {

55}

[Pickthal 5:55] Your guardian can be only Allah; and His messenger and those who believe, who establish worship and pay the poordue, and bow down (in prayer).

وَمَنْ يَتَوَلَّ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا فَإِنَّ حِزْبَ اللَّهِ هُمُ الْغَالِبُونَ {56}

[Pickthal 5:56] And whoso taketh Allah and His messenger and those who believe for guardian (will know that), lo! the party of Allah, they are the victorious.

 

*****

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا أَطِيعُوا اللَّهَ وَأَطِيعُوا الرَّسُولَ وَأُولِي الْأَمْرِ مِنْكُمْ ۖ فَإِنْ تَنَازَعْتُمْ فِي شَيْءٍ فَرُدُّوهُ إِلَى اللَّهِ وَالرَّسُولِ إِنْ كُنْتُمْ تُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الْآخِرِ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ خَيْرٌ وَأَحْسَنُ تَأْوِيلًا {59}

[Shakir 4:59] O you who believe! obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority from among you; then if you quarrel about anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you believe in Allah and the last day; this is better and very good in the end.
[Pickthal 4:59] O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the messenger and those of you who are in authority; and if ye have a dispute concerning any matter, refer it to Allah and the messenger if ye are (in truth) believers in Allah and the Last Day. That is better and more seemly in the end.
[Yusufali 4:59] O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day: That is best, and most suitable for final determination.
[Pooya/Ali Commentary 4:59]

"Obey Allah and obey the messenger and the ulil amr (those vested with authority through His messenger)."

 

The command to obey is infinite-total obedience in all material, religious and spiritual matters, therefore, as this verse clearly signifies, the ulil amr must also be as just, wise and merciful as Allah and the Holy Prophet are, and he who - administers the affairs of mankind should be the khalifatullah (vicegerent of Allah) and the waliallah (representative of Allah whom He chooses after equipping him with His wisdom). Please refer to the commentary of al-Baqarah: 30 to 39 and 124; and al-Ma-idah: 55 and 56 and 3 and 67 with reference to the event at Ghadir Khum; and al-Rad: 43; and al-Hud: 17. A careful study of the above references discloses that Ali, and after him, the remaining eleven Imams, in the progeny of the Holy Prophet, Ali and Fatimah, are the true successors of the Holy Prophet who have been referred to as ulil amr in this verse. So the Shias obey and follow the Holy Prophet and the twelve Imams.

 

It is irrational and senseless to accept any ruler as ulil amr, otherwise men like Yazid bin Mu-awiya will have to be included in the category of ulil amr; and no sane person would say that Allah has enjoined to obey men like Yazid (prototypes of whom were and are many and in abundance since the departure of the Holy Prophet till today) just as one obeys Allah and the Holy Prophet.

 

From the event of ashira (feast of the near relatives to carry out the divine command of "warn your tribe of near relatives") to the day at Ghadir Khum, the Holy Prophet repeatedly announced the successorship of Ali, therefore, the first step a true Muslim must take to obey the messenger of Allah is to obey and follow Ali ibn abi Talib. Also refer to the "Right Path" and "Peshawar Nights", published by the Peermohammed Ebrahim Trust or Zahra Publications, because the issue of ulil amr and wali has been discussed in depth in these books with authentic references from the well-known books of tafsir (exegesis) and hadith (traditions) written by the Muslim scholars.

 

Today the Muslim ummah (from Indonesia to Morocco) is in a quandary, because the theoreticians who directly or indirectly served the interests of the despotic rulers, have presented "the obedience to ruler" (even if he is an usurper, a rogue or a ruffian) as a fundamental of religion (known as the theory of ghlu and ghalba-violence and conquest) by misinterpreting this verse. Such theoreticians are their Imams. There is no way leading to emancipation from terror and exploitation if this theory is not rightly rejected once and for all. It is not possible unless the sincere Muslims submit to the teachings of the Ahl ul Bayt.

http://quran.al-islam.org/

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8 hours ago, Student_of_Deen said:

What is the scope of Infallibility of Prophets and Imams according to Shia beliefs ? are they absolutely above making any mistake whatsoever or can they make unintentional minor mistakes ?

The views of Shia scholars vary in this regard. Some believe that Prophets and Imams can do Sahw while others don't believe so.

According to Sheikh Saduq, Prophets can do Sahw and forget things and according to one of his teachers anyone who believes otherwise is an exaggerator.

Sheikh Mufid has a different and somewhat opposing opinion.

Edited by Abu Nasr

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5 hours ago, Student_of_Deen said:

the ayahs you posted are about the teaching and obedience of the Messenger (Peace be upon him). obviously no person can question that and remain a Muslim. 

how could we specify the Ayat to prophetic teachings while it has a broad implication:

it clearly say whatever which imply every thing regarding every cases no matter if it is worldly issues or that of things related to hereafter that you may call it teachings of prophet.

regardless the Ayat we have narrations which explicitly say Imams and prophets never do mistakes such narration could reflect the Shia scope on the issue of infallibility.

الكافي (ط - الإسلامية)، ج‏1، ص: 203

وَ إِنَّ الْعَبْدَ إِذَا اخْتَارَهُ اللَّهُ عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ لِأُمُورِ عِبَادِهِ شَرَحَ صَدْرَهُ لِذَلِكَ وَ أَوْدَعَ قَلْبَهُ يَنَابِيعَ الْحِكْمَةِ وَ أَلْهَمَهُ الْعِلْمَ إِلْهَاماً فَلَمْ يَعْيَ بَعْدَهُ بِجَوَابٍ وَ لَا يُحَيَّرُ فِيهِ عَنِ الصَّوَابِ فَهُوَ مَعْصُومٌ‏ مُؤَيَّدٌ مُوَفَّقٌ مُسَدَّدٌ قَدْ أَمِنَ مِنَ الْخَطَايَا وَ الزَّلَلِ وَ الْعِثَارِ يَخُصُّهُ اللَّهُ بِذَلِكَ لِيَكُونَ حُجَّتَهُ عَلَى عِبَادِهِ وَ شَاهِدَهُ عَلَى خَلْقِه‏

if someone is chosen by Allah to handle people's affairs, He will expand his heart for such great responsibility and grant for him the wisdom and inspire to him the inspiration never fail to answer people's questions. verily he would be infallible, succeeded and cleared free from [secured of ] mistakes, faults and errors. 

Allah granted for him such nobility to be a proof for people.

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Bismillah.

Salaam.

Extent of Infallibility:

The infallibility of the Imams includes two main areas: Practice and Knowledge

1- Infallibility in Practice: this includes Imam's actions and behavior and has two levels:

a. The infallible never disregards an obligation, nor commits a prohibited action

b. The infallible never disregards a recommendation (Mustahab) nor commits a disliked action (Makruh)

2- Infallibility in Knowledge: this includes the knowledge of issues related to his duty as an Imam and it has three levels:

a. He does not make mistake in religious knowledge, for he is the guide of people.

b. He is infallible in his social and political decisions. Also, his decisions in scholarly leadership are perfect and correct.

c. He is infallible in the application of religious practical laws, and does not make mistakes in this regard. For instance, in discerning whether a given liquid is water or wine, he does not make a mistake.

More info at:

http://en.wikishia.net/view/Infallibility#Extent

With Duas.

Narsis.

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11 hours ago, narsis said:

Bismillah.

Salaam.

Extent of Infallibility:

The infallibility of the Imams includes two main areas: Practice and Knowledge

1- Infallibility in Practice: this includes Imam's actions and behavior and has two levels:

a. The infallible never disregards an obligation, nor commits a prohibited action

b. The infallible never disregards a recommendation (Mustahab) nor commits a disliked action (Makruh)

2- Infallibility in Knowledge: this includes the knowledge of issues related to his duty as an Imam and it has three levels:

a. He does not make mistake in religious knowledge, for he is the guide of people.

b. He is infallible in his social and political decisions. Also, his decisions in scholarly leadership are perfect and correct.

c. He is infallible in the application of religious practical laws, and does not make mistakes in this regard. For instance, in discerning whether a given liquid is water or wine, he does not make a mistake.

More info at:

http://en.wikishia.net/view/Infallibility#Extent

With Duas.

Narsis.

you mean in simple words the Prophets & Imams are absolutely above making any mistakes whatsoever ? 

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13 hours ago, mahdi servant.01 said:

how could we specify the Ayat to prophetic teachings while it has a broad implication:

it clearly say whatever which imply every thing regarding every cases no matter if it is worldly issues or that of things related to hereafter that you may call it teachings of prophet.

i don`t understand the confusion here because i also said the same thing which is Obedience to every command of the Messenger (Peace be upon him).

13 hours ago, mahdi servant.01 said:

regardless the Ayat we have narrations which explicitly say Imams and prophets never do mistakes such narration could reflect the Shia scope on the issue of infallibility.

الكافي (ط - الإسلامية)، ج‏1، ص: 203

وَ إِنَّ الْعَبْدَ إِذَا اخْتَارَهُ اللَّهُ عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ لِأُمُورِ عِبَادِهِ شَرَحَ صَدْرَهُ لِذَلِكَ وَ أَوْدَعَ قَلْبَهُ يَنَابِيعَ الْحِكْمَةِ وَ أَلْهَمَهُ الْعِلْمَ إِلْهَاماً فَلَمْ يَعْيَ بَعْدَهُ بِجَوَابٍ وَ لَا يُحَيَّرُ فِيهِ عَنِ الصَّوَابِ فَهُوَ مَعْصُومٌ‏ مُؤَيَّدٌ مُوَفَّقٌ مُسَدَّدٌ قَدْ أَمِنَ مِنَ الْخَطَايَا وَ الزَّلَلِ وَ الْعِثَارِ يَخُصُّهُ اللَّهُ بِذَلِكَ لِيَكُونَ حُجَّتَهُ عَلَى عِبَادِهِ وَ شَاهِدَهُ عَلَى خَلْقِه‏

if someone is chosen by Allah to handle people's affairs, He will expand his heart for such great responsibility and grant for him the wisdom and inspire to him the inspiration never fail to answer people's questions. verily he would be infallible, succeeded and cleared free from [secured of ] mistakes, faults and errors. 

Allah granted for him such nobility to be a proof for people.

I know you believe the Imams and Prophets were Infallible, please try to understand my question.

i`m asking you what is the degree of their infallibility ? can they make minor unintentional mistakes or are they absolutely above making any mistake ?

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14 hours ago, Abu Nasr said:

The views of Shia scholars vary in this regard. Some believe that Prophets and Imams can do Sahw while others don't believe so.

According to Sheikh Saduq, Prophets can do Sahw and forget things and according to one of his teachers anyone who believes otherwise is an exaggerator.

Sheikh Mufid has a different and somewhat opposing opinion.

BaarakAllahu Feek for the post. your post made me realize i should have been specific while opening this thread. 

Since the ithna Ahseri Shia are the majority, i want to know their views on this opinion first.

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16 hours ago, sadegh said:

3. The absolute infallibility which requires that they should not even make mistakes in their lives. This level of infallibility is the most commonly accepted view among Shia scholars.

Any further ambiguity?

Not even Minor unintentional mistakes ?

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2 hours ago, Student_of_Deen said:

Not even Minor unintentional mistakes ?

In this view, no!

Their argument is that even these kinds of mistakes lead to a sort of uncertainty for the people who should follow them in as absolute way, as the verse decrees:

يا أَيُّهَا الَّذينَ آمَنُوا أَطيعُوا اللَّهَ وَ أَطيعُوا الرَّسُولَ وَ أُولِي الْأَمْرِ مِنْكُم‏

"O you who have faith! Obey Allah and obey the Apostle and those vested with authority among you." [4:59]

It is an absolute command to obey them, so if I know that they sometimes make minor unintentional mistake, I cannot rely on whatever they say absolutely.

Peace!

Edited by sadegh

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7 minutes ago, sadegh said:

In this view, no!

Their argument is that even these kinds of mistakes lead to a sort of uncertainty for the people who should follow them in as absolute way, as the verse decrees:

يا أَيُّهَا الَّذينَ آمَنُوا أَطيعُوا اللَّهَ وَ أَطيعُوا الرَّسُولَ وَ أُولِي الْأَمْرِ مِنْكُم‏

"O you who have faith! Obey Allah and obey the Apostle and those vested with authority among you." [4:59]

It is an absolute command to obey them, so if I know that they sometimes make minor unintentional mistake, I cannot rely on whatever they say absolutely.

Peace!

BaarakAllahu feek for the post. No doubt the obedience to Allah and his Messenger is absolute. their commands has to be obeyed by all Muslims. this isn`t the point of contention. 

the point of dispute whether they (please note i`m talking about all the Prophets + the Imams) can make unintentional minor mistakes in their daily life or whether they are absolutely above making mistakes ? Because we can find some incidents in the Qu`ran where even the Prophets & Messengers made unintentional mistakes and then repented for it immediately when they realized it.

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4 hours ago, Student_of_Deen said:

BaarakAllahu feek for the post. No doubt the obedience to Allah and his Messenger is absolute. their commands has to be obeyed by all Muslims. this isn`t the point of contention. 

the point of dispute whether they (please note i`m talking about all the Prophets + the Imams) can make unintentional minor mistakes in their daily life or whether they are absolutely above making mistakes ? Because we can find some incidents in the Qu`ran where even the Prophets & Messengers made unintentional mistakes and then repented for it immediately when they realized it.

You're welcome brother,

Infallibility, like any other moral value, is a hierarchical concept. All prophets are not in the same level of infallibility. Allah s,w,t, states,

تِلْكَ الرُّسُلُ فَضَّلْنا بَعْضَهُمْ عَلى‏ بَعْضٍ مِنْهُمْ مَنْ كَلَّمَ اللَّهُ وَ رَفَعَ بَعْضَهُمْ دَرَجاتٍ

"These are the apostles, some of whom We gave an advantage over others: of them are those to whom Allah spoke, and some of them He raised in rank." [2:253]

So prophets are in different ranks. However, they all have infallibility in common, because without it, absolute obedience of them would not make sense. So all of them have the least common denominator of infallibility, i.e. not committing sins.

Now, because of the different levels of their perfection, those who are in the lower ranks consider themselves sinners, in comparison with those higher than them, while they have not committed any sins. It is famous that,

 حَسَنَاتُ الْأَبْرَارِ سَيِّئَاتُ الْمُقَرَّبِين

"The good deeds of the pious are deemed misdeeds/sins for those brought near [to Allah]"

That is why we see that all prophets and Imams were constantly repenting to Allah s.w.t., and the holy Prophet s,a,w,a, is said to do istighfaar 70 times every day.

This is the explanation behind the verses talking about the prophets repenting from sins or minor mistakes-as you put it.

Peace!

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8 hours ago, Student_of_Deen said:

I know you believe the Imams and Prophets were Infallible, please try to understand my question.

i`m asking you what is the degree of their infallibility ? can they make minor unintentional mistakes or are they absolutely above making any mistake ?

dear friend I think I was as clear as possible as to your question but If it make any difference to you I 'll elaborate it more

 

On ٢١‏/٢‏/٢٠١٦ at 9:36 AM, Student_of_Deen said:

are they absolutely above making any mistake whatsoever or can they make unintentional minor mistakes ?

Yes they are!!

 

22 hours ago, mahdi servant.01 said:

 

وَ إِنَّ الْعَبْدَ إِذَا اخْتَارَهُ اللَّهُ عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ لِأُمُورِ عِبَادِهِ شَرَحَ صَدْرَهُ لِذَلِكَ وَ أَوْدَعَ قَلْبَهُ يَنَابِيعَ الْحِكْمَةِ وَ أَلْهَمَهُ الْعِلْمَ إِلْهَاماً فَلَمْ يَعْيَ بَعْدَهُ بِجَوَابٍ وَ لَا يُحَيَّرُ فِيهِ عَنِ الصَّوَابِ فَهُوَ مَعْصُومٌ‏ مُؤَيَّدٌ مُوَفَّقٌ مُسَدَّدٌ قَدْ أَمِنَ مِنَ الْخَطَايَا وَ الزَّلَلِ وَ الْعِثَارِ يَخُصُّهُ اللَّهُ بِذَلِكَ لِيَكُونَ حُجَّتَهُ عَلَى عِبَادِهِ وَ شَاهِدَهُ عَلَى خَلْقِه‏

if someone is chosen by Allah to handle people's affairs, He will expand his heart for such great responsibility and grant for him the wisdom and inspire to him the inspiration never fail to answer people's questions. verily he would be infallible, succeeded and cleared free from mistakes, faults and errors.

this is what we believe in grand prophets - Nova, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad peace be upon them [اولوالعزم ] and All Imams.

but as for other prophets we believe that they are free from sins and I think @sadegh has discussed it deeply in his post.

 

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6 hours ago, Student_of_Deen said:

BaarakAllahu feek for the post. No doubt the obedience to Allah and his Messenger is absolute. their commands has to be obeyed by all Muslims. this isn`t the point of contention. 

the point of dispute whether they (please note i`m talking about all the Prophets + the Imams) can make unintentional minor mistakes in their daily life or whether they are absolutely above making mistakes ? Because we can find some incidents in the Qu`ran where even the Prophets & Messengers made unintentional mistakes and then repented for it immediately when they realized it.

although this is a very old question and has received several types of answers I ready to discuss it now, but let's do it one by one.

we could quote every Ayat with respect to any certain prophet implying that he has committed sins or any Ayat denoting that prophet Muhammad or the other four have committed mistakes.

one important point:

please note that Quran employs classical Arabic words, so that to understand it truly one should take the implications of such language into consideration or he will fail to understand it truly!

Edited by mahdi servant.01

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I don't see why most people seem to be focusing on Imams here, it really is more about Prophets. We have examples of them in a source that is undeniably true and acceptable as proof for all.
A couple of definitions are given but the question is not only what is the definition, but also how do you reconcile with certain verses? You can bring forth tens of verses and hundreds of narrations, but it only means something if it is logically coherent. Meaning it must not contradict everything else you believe to be true. That is the big question here, are the verses and your definition only apparently contradicting each other and it is perfectly reconcilable or is there an actual contradiction?

For example if a definition is given and the definition refers to Prophet Musa as well, how is it reconciled with the verses:

28:15
Sahih International
And he entered the city at a time of inattention by its people and found therein two men fighting: one from his faction and one from among his enemy. And the one from his faction called for help to him against the one from his enemy, so Moses struck him and [unintentionally] killed him. [Moses] said, "This is from the work of Satan. Indeed, he is a manifest, misleading enemy."

 
28:16
Sahih International
He said, "My Lord, indeed I have wronged myself, so forgive me," and He forgave him. Indeed, He is the Forgiving, the Merciful.

 
28:17
Sahih International
He said, "My Lord, for the favor You bestowed upon me, I will never be an assistant to the criminals."

Is it just apparently contradicting or actually contradicting?

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The Messenger of Allah declared:

 "It seems the time approached when I shall be called away (by Allah) and I shall answer that call. I am leaving for you two precious things and if you adhere to them both,  you will never go astray after me. They are the Book of Allah and my Progeny, that is my Ahlul Bayt. The two shall never separate from each other until they come to me by the Pool (of Paradise)." 

http://www.al-islam.org/ghadir/incident.htm

Edited by S.M.H.A.

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14 hours ago, GreatChineseFall said:

This is from the work of Satan. Indeed, he is a manifest, misleading enemy."

"this" here refers to the fight toke place between two men!

 

14 hours ago, GreatChineseFall said:

My Lord, indeed I have wronged myself, so forgive me

wrong understanding!

that guy deserved to be killed and Musa killed him but following this event he would be chased by Feron soldiers and Musa by this Dua asks Allah to save him from such grief that he might be arrested by them as we have in Quran the same concept:

You killed a soul and We saved you from grief. 20:40.

14 hours ago, GreatChineseFall said:

My Lord, for the favor You bestowed upon me, I will never be an assistant to the criminals."

"Criminals" in this Ayah refers to Feron and his soldiers and Musa by killing them how could be assistant to them?

 

14 hours ago, GreatChineseFall said:

I don't see why most people seem to be focusing on Imams here, it really is more about Prophets.

I do not see why some people try to prove prophets were sinners??

آل‏عمران : 7       هُوَ الَّذي أَنْزَلَ عَلَيْكَ الْكِتابَ مِنْهُ آياتٌ مُحْكَماتٌ هُنَّ أُمُّ الْكِتابِ وَ أُخَرُ مُتَشابِهاتٌ فَأَمَّا الَّذينَ في‏ قُلُوبِهِمْ زَيْغٌ فَيَتَّبِعُونَ ما تَشابَهَ مِنْهُ ابْتِغاءَ الْفِتْنَةِ وَ ابْتِغاءَ تَأْويلِهِ وَ ما يَعْلَمُ تَأْويلَهُ إِلاَّ اللَّهُ وَ الرَّاسِخُونَ فِي الْعِلْمِ يَقُولُونَ آمَنَّا بِهِ كُلٌّ مِنْ عِنْدِ رَبِّنا وَ ما يَذَّكَّرُ إِلاَّ أُولُوا الْأَلْبابِ

It is He who has sent down to you the Book. Parts of it are definitive verses, which are the mother of the Book, while others are metaphorical. As for those in whose hearts is deviance, they pursue what is metaphorical in it, courting temptation and courting its interpretation. But no one knows its interpretation except Allah and those firmly grounded in knowledge; they say," We believe in it; all of it is from our Lord." And none takes admonition except those who possess intellect.( 7 )

 

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17 hours ago, mahdi servant.01 said:

wrong understanding!

that guy deserved to be killed and Musa killed him but following this event he would be chased by Feron soldiers and Musa by this Dua asks Allah to save him from such grief that he might be arrested by them as we have in Quran the same concept:

You killed a soul and We saved you from grief. 20:40.

Except that he doesn't asked to be saved, he asks to be for forgiven.

17 hours ago, mahdi servant.01 said:

آل‏عمران : 7       هُوَ الَّذي أَنْزَلَ عَلَيْكَ الْكِتابَ مِنْهُ آياتٌ مُحْكَماتٌ هُنَّ أُمُّ الْكِتابِ وَ أُخَرُ مُتَشابِهاتٌ فَأَمَّا الَّذينَ في‏ قُلُوبِهِمْ زَيْغٌ فَيَتَّبِعُونَ ما تَشابَهَ مِنْهُ ابْتِغاءَ الْفِتْنَةِ وَ ابْتِغاءَ تَأْويلِهِ وَ ما يَعْلَمُ تَأْويلَهُ إِلاَّ اللَّهُ وَ الرَّاسِخُونَ فِي الْعِلْمِ يَقُولُونَ آمَنَّا بِهِ كُلٌّ مِنْ عِنْدِ رَبِّنا وَ ما يَذَّكَّرُ إِلاَّ أُولُوا الْأَلْبابِ

It is He who has sent down to you the Book. Parts of it are definitive verses, which are the mother of the Book, while others are metaphorical. As for those in whose hearts is deviance, they pursue what is metaphorical in it, courting temptation and courting its interpretation. But no one knows its interpretation except Allah and those firmly grounded in knowledge; they say," We believe in it; all of it is from our Lord." And none takes admonition except those who possess intellect.( 7 )

So this verse is metaphorical?

Rather the ones seeking a pleasing interpretation in my opinion are the ones that try to defend a concept no matter what and the ones when you simply change names would give you a totally different interpretation.

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18 hours ago, mahdi servant.01 said:

wrong understanding!

that guy deserved to be killed and Musa killed him but following this event he would be chased by Feron soldiers and Musa by this Dua asks Allah to save him from such grief that he might be arrested by them as we have in Quran the same concept:

You killed a soul and We saved you from grief. 20:40.

In this Prophet Musa (Peace be upon him) asked for forgiveness, not to be saved from Firaun. 

Secondly when does a person suffers from grief ? when he is sorrowful over a mistake he made in the past because grief means extreme sorrow. 

if Allah subhana watala wanted to say he saved Prophet Musa (Peace be upon him) from Firaun then he wouldn`t have used the world grief but words like fear or terror. 

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dear brothers @Student_of_Deen & @GreatChineseFall

I wonder how dare we could think of these verse like this?

if you speak of ظلمت نفسي & فاغفر لي  and what is meaning by them is that prophet Musa committed sin - since we are not asking for forgiveness over our daily mistakes- would you know what it would imply?

have you ever read these verses?

الأنعام : 87       وَ مِنْ آبائِهِمْ وَ ذُرِّيَّاتِهِمْ وَ إِخْوانِهِمْ وَ اجْتَبَيْناهُمْ وَ هَدَيْناهُمْ إِلى‏ صِراطٍ مُسْتَقيمٍ

الأنعام : 88       ذلِكَ هُدَى اللَّهِ يَهْدي بِهِ مَنْ يَشاءُ مِنْ عِبادِهِ وَ لَوْ أَشْرَكُوا لَحَبِطَ عَنْهُمْ ما كانُوا يَعْمَلُونَ

and from among their fathers, their descendants and brethren We chose them and guided them to a straight path.( 6: 87 )

That is Allah's guidance: with it He guides whomever He wishes of His servants. But were they to ascribe any partners[ to Allah ], what they used to do would not avail them.( 6:88 )

No one can mislead anyone whom God guides. Is God not Powerful, the Wielder of Retribution?( 39: 37 )

Now just rethink of what you claim! committing sin means to obey Shaytan and be mislead! right?

So you mean prophets were mislead at some occasions over their life?

do not you see that contradicting what Allah says in Quran that NO ONE COULD MISLEAD WHOM Allah GUIDES! AND PROPHETS ARE FROM AMONG THOSE GUIDED ONES!!!!

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, GreatChineseFall said:

So this verse is metaphorical?

what do you mean by that?

by metaphoric we mean that verses may apparently seem contradicting as follows:

1- all verses may be considered to be implying that some prophets have committed minor sins

2- other verses that clearly deny such notion on prophets as I posted in the previous post.

 

Edited by mahdi servant.01

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