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Chinali

HAZRAT ABU BAKR

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5 minutes ago, Skanderbeg said:

Salam,

Nasibi's keep silent and are surely laughing about this internal dispute.

Let's provide references for our claims instead of reasoning.

The ones that ought to provide references are people who send random quotes by Imam Hussein that no one has heard of, just to fulfill the support of the faith. If that is how we are going to be, then what differs us from Nasibis?

 

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13 minutes ago, Skanderbeg said:

Then it is up to him to proof his claims with the right sources and references.

On a forum on the internet where any one can write anything, that can lead someone stray from religion, or indulge wrong information the can twist ones belief around. It is each persons obligation to write information and Hadiths with caution;

1st. So people within the Shia faith, don't take wrong information and have beliefs that don't belong to Muslim school.

2nd. Because many people can read this, and read false Hadiths from here and here, and that can lead them to lose their faith.

3rd. So if many people from others faith read this, don't laugh at us putting wrong information regarding our religion, just as we laugh at them when they do with theirs.

 

I believe this is a duty of every Muslim person when posting online, or anywhere in life in any discussion.

Point of debating isn't to "prove you are correct", but to show the truth.

Edited by John Al-Ameli

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Salam, 

There is adult debate. Reasonable and factual. And there is childish skirmishing. 

In both ways one can provide useful information but the performance takes away the real message. 

If Imam Ali a.s. did accept or not accept it. Just give the references or show the weak chain of the opposed narrative. 

When people become dramatical and all then the discussion will degrade to the level of a Jerry Springer Show.

Edited by Skanderbeg

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1 hour ago, John Al-Ameli said:

When they attacked Imam Alis house and Sayeda Fatima al Zahraa was in it.

Didn't he accept Abu Bakr to be Caliph? He didn't accept it because he was happy about it but because it was for the sake of the Ummah.

You're right "pledging allegiance" might sound he happily did it. Let me rephrase it to "accepted"

He never pledged allegiance happily or otherwise. 

Do you know what pledging allegiance means?? Didn't imam Hussain say the likes of me will never do bayat of the likes of Yazeed. 

 

Even sunnis don't claim that he pledged allegiance  when they attacked his house. Bukhari clearly says that he didn't pledge allegiance for 6 months. 

Edited by MOHIB E AHLAYBAIT

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10 minutes ago, MOHIB E AHLAYBAIT said:

He never pledged allegiance happily or otherwise. 

Do you know what pledging allegiance means?? Didn't imam Hussain say the likes of me will never do bayat of the likes of Yazeed. 

 

Even sunnis don't claim that he pledged allegiance  when they attacked his house. Bukhari clearly says that he didn't pledge allegiance for 6 months. 

Did you see me clearly saying I will rephrase it, or you made up your mind replying before you read what I said?

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1 hour ago, Skanderbeg said:

am Ali a.s. did accept or not accept it. Just give the references or show the weak chain of the opposed narrative. 
 

If he didn't accept it, then wasn't he in the era when the "3 Caliphs" where? Weren't they the first 3 "Caliphs" according to Muslim history, they were. Didn't they break Sayeda Fatima Zahraas rib? didn't they attack the house? Why didn't he raise a sword? Because not everything is about cursing and raising the sword, especially when the sake of the Muslim nation is at risk. And Imam Ali knew that doing anything would blow away everything the Prophet came to do, and more over, the mission that Allah wants them to do will fail, thus he accepted things not happily of course, but for the sake of the Ummah, and that is the greatness of Ahlul Bayt. Just like when there was a "treaty" between Imam Hassan and Mouawiya, Imam Hassan was happy with it? Of course not, be he knows consequences of what could go wrong, and because their intentions are solely for Allah and for Islam, they had strong patience.

That is why we shouldn't just read Hadith of Ahlul Bayt, just for history, but also to gain from their wisdom and knowledge and patience. Walk their footsteps, know when sometimes things would harm the nation or backfire at us.

No one was oppressed like Ahlul Bayt were oppressed, and tell me where did you ever see them acting or talking like many people talking here, that would let emotions control their brain. When we want to say we walk on the footsteps of Ahlul Bayt, doesn't mean memorizing everything they said without understanding.

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6 minutes ago, John Al-Ameli said:

Did you see me clearly saying I will rephrase it, or you made up your mind replying before you read what I said?

Can you reply without sarcasm or forget it I'll use the same tone....

Did you not read I said he didn't do it happily or otherwise. Meaning he didn't accept it at all. Or did you make up your mind before reading what I said. 

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2 minutes ago, MOHIB E AHLAYBAIT said:

Can you reply without sarcasm or forget it I'll use the same tone....

Did you not read I said he didn't do it happily or otherwise. Meaning he didn't accept it at all. Or did you make up your mind before reading what I said. 

mmmm...go read Muslim history, without emotions..

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26 minutes ago, John Al-Ameli said:

If he didn't accept it, then wasn't he in the era when the "3 Caliphs" where? Weren't they the first 3 "Caliphs" according to Muslim history, they were. Didn't they break Sayeda Fatima Zahraas rib? didn't they attack the house? Why didn't he raise a sword?

Now I'll use the same condescending hollier than thou attitude as you are using in your post. Does not raising a sword means that he accepted them as his first second and third caliph. If you believe that then let me tell you something you might call yourself a shia but in fact you are a sunni. Khilafat is a post assigned by Allah only, and even if not a single person accepts it, the fact is Imam Ali was the caliph even during the time of 123.

 

Did Imam Zain ul Abedin raise sword against Yazeed after Karbala? Does that mean he accepted him as his caliph? Now stop getting emotional just cause someone questioned your understanding of history. If you yourself said that they are responsible for incident of door and breaking of the ribs, then its etched in stone that they are the dwellers of deepest pits of hell. Whether we say it publicly or privately is a another issue.

 

 

Edited by MOHIB E AHLAYBAIT

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3 minutes ago, MOHIB E AHLAYBAIT said:

Now I'll use the same condescending hollier than thou attitude as you are using in your post. Does not raising a sword means that he accepted them as his first second and third caliph. If you believe that then let me tell you something you might call yourself a shia but in fact you are a sunni.

 

Did Imam Zain ul Abedin raise sword against Yazeed after Karbala? Does that mean he accepted him as his caliph? Now stop getting emotional just cause someone questioned your understanding of history. If you yourself said that they are responsible for incident of door and breaking of the ribs, then its etched in stone that they are the dwellers of deepest pits of hell. Whether we say it publicly or privately is a another issue.

 

 

*face palm*

Ciaozino amigo

 

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40 minutes ago, John Al-Ameli said:

If he didn't accept it, then wasn't he in the era when the "3 Caliphs" where? Weren't they the first 3 "Caliphs" according to Muslim history, they were. Didn't they break Sayeda Fatima Zahraas rib? didn't they attack the house? Why didn't he raise a sword? Because not everything is about cursing and raising the sword, especially when the sake of the Muslim nation is at risk. And Imam Ali knew that doing anything would blow away everything the Prophet came to do, and more over, the mission that Allah wants them to do will fail, thus he accepted things not happily of course, but for the sake of the Ummah, and that is the greatness of Ahlul Bayt. Just like when there was a "treaty" between Imam Hassan and Mouawiya, Imam Hassan was happy with it? Of course not, be he knows consequences of what could go wrong, and because their intentions are solely for Allah and for Islam, they had strong patience.

That is why we shouldn't just read Hadith of Ahlul Bayt, just for history, but also to gain from their wisdom and knowledge and patience. Walk their footsteps, know when sometimes things would harm the nation or backfire at us.

No one was oppressed like Ahlul Bayt were oppressed, and tell me where did you ever see them acting or talking like many people talking here, that would let emotions control their brain. When we want to say we walk on the footsteps of Ahlul Bayt, doesn't mean memorizing everything they said without understanding.

Salam,

Yes you're right but can you show me an authentic narrative that it is as you said i.e. that Imam Ali a.s. pledged allegiance to Abu Bakr?

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:salam:

What ever the Imams did was not due to what they thought would be the best way to preserve Islam, but it was a decree from Allah that each should accept and agree what Allah had decreed on them, and they accepted.

Hence it was not about Imams being happy or saddened of what they did.

The were precisely executing Allah's commands, which they had accepted to fulfill.

So whether Imam Ali pledged Alligence with Abu Bakr or not, what he did was because he had accepted the covenant of Allah, and acted on that.

Hence if he pledged alligence it was the right thing to do , or if he did not pledge alligence ,would have also been the right thing to do.

Which ever he did was simply following instructions ordained by Allah.

Similarly the other Imams did the same.

 

Al-Kafi:

Chapter 61 : The Imams (a.s.) never did and would not do anything except because of the covenant of Allah, the Most Holy, the Most High, and a command from Him and they did not go beyond such limits

H 742, Ch. 61, h 3

 

 Once Humran asked abu Ja'far (a.s.) the following:

 

"May Allah take my soul in service for your cause,

 

'Why the cases of Ali al-Hassan and al-Husayn (a.s.) come about the way they did?

 

Their rising and coming out for the religion of Allah, the Most Holy, the Most High their suffering and being murdered at the hands of the rebellious devils and their defeat until they all were murdered and defeated.'

 

" Abu Ja'far (a.s.) then said, "O Humran, Allah, the Most Holy, the Most High had destined it for them.

 

So it was decreed, approved and was made unavoidable.

 

Then He executed it but it all happened with the prior knowledge of the same through the Messenger of Allah. Ali al- Hassan and al-Husayn (a.s.) all rose for the cause of Allah with knowledge of the consequences remained silent whoever of us that remained silent."

 

H 741, Ch. 61, h 2

 

 abu 'Abdallah (a.s.) who has said the following.

 

"Allah, the Most Holy, the Most High sent a document to His prophet (s.a) before his death. He then said, "O Muhammad, this is your will to the noble ones in your family." He asked,

 

"Who are the noble ones in my family, O Jibril?" He then said, "They are Ali ibn abu Talib and his sons (a.s.)."

 

On the document there were several seals of gold. The Prophet (s.a) delivered it to Amir al- Mu'minin Ali (a.s.) and commanded him to open one seal and follow the instructions for him therein. Amir al-Mu'minin Ali (a.s.) then opened one seal and followed the instruction in it.

 

Then he delivered it to his son al-Hassan (a.s.). He opened a seal and followed that which was therein. He then delivered it to al-Husayn (a.s.). He opened one seal and found therein instruction that asked him to rise for martyrdom with a group of people. That there will be no martyrdom for them except along with and selling yourself to Allah, the Most Holy, the Most High. He followed all the instructions.

 

Then he delivered it to Ali ibn al-Husayn (a.s.).

 

He opened one seal and found therein instructions therein that asked him to fix his gaze just before him and remain silent, secluded in your house and worship your Lord until your death will arrive. He did as he was instructed and then delivered it to his son Muhammad ibn Ali (a. s.).

 

He opened one seal and found therein instructions that asked him to speak to people and make them learn. Do not fear anyone except Allah, the Most Holy, the Most High because no one can harm you. He followed the instructions and then delivered it to his son Ja'far (a.s.).

 

He opened one seal and found therein instructions that asked him to speak to people, make them learn, propagate the knowledge of your family (Ahl al-Bayt) and affirm the veracity of your righteous ancestors.

 

Do not be afraid of anyone except Allah, the Most Holy, the Most High because you are secure and safe. He did as was instructed and then delivered it to his son Musa (a.s.).

 

In the same Musa (a.s.) will deliver it to the succeeding Imam and so on up to the appearance of al-Mahdi (s.a) "

Edited by certainclarity

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On 2/14/2016 at 2:32 AM, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Oh, can I read the hadith? I am kind of curious now.

 

You're absolutely right, I guess I was being unnecessarily precautious. 

Sorry for the delayed response. ADMIN gave me a timeout for 7 days.

I have attached a reference below but you can also google "ABU BAKR AS-SUNH Wife" and will find a few references.

ABAS.jpg

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On 16/02/2016 at 0:14 AM, certainclarity said:

:salam:

What ever the Imams did was not due to what they thought would be the best way to preserve Islam, but it was a decree from Allah that each should accept and agree what Allah had decreed on them, and they accepted.

Hence it was not about Imams being happy or saddened of what they did.

The were precisely executing Allah's commands, which they had accepted to fulfill.

So whether Imam Ali pledged Alligence with Abu Bakr or not, what he did was because he had accepted the covenant of Allah, and acted on that.

Hence if he pledged alligence it was the right thing to do , or if he did not pledge alligence ,would have also been the right thing to do.

Which ever he did was simply following instructions ordained by Allah.

Similarly the other Imams did the same.

 

Al-Kafi:

Chapter 61 : The Imams (a.s.) never did and would not do anything except because of the covenant of Allah, the Most Holy, the Most High, and a command from Him and they did not go beyond such limits

H 742, Ch. 61, h 3

 

 Once Humran asked abu Ja'far (a.s.) the following:

 

"May Allah take my soul in service for your cause,

 

'Why the cases of Ali al-Hassan and al-Husayn (a.s.) come about the way they did?

 

Their rising and coming out for the religion of Allah, the Most Holy, the Most High their suffering and being murdered at the hands of the rebellious devils and their defeat until they all were murdered and defeated.'

 

" Abu Ja'far (a.s.) then said, "O Humran, Allah, the Most Holy, the Most High had destined it for them.

 

So it was decreed, approved and was made unavoidable.

 

Then He executed it but it all happened with the prior knowledge of the same through the Messenger of Allah. Ali al- Hassan and al-Husayn (a.s.) all rose for the cause of Allah with knowledge of the consequences remained silent whoever of us that remained silent."

 

H 741, Ch. 61, h 2

 

 abu 'Abdallah (a.s.) who has said the following.

 

"Allah, the Most Holy, the Most High sent a document to His prophet (s.a) before his death. He then said, "O Muhammad, this is your will to the noble ones in your family." He asked,

 

"Who are the noble ones in my family, O Jibril?" He then said, "They are Ali ibn abu Talib and his sons (a.s.)."

 

On the document there were several seals of gold. The Prophet (s.a) delivered it to Amir al- Mu'minin Ali (a.s.) and commanded him to open one seal and follow the instructions for him therein. Amir al-Mu'minin Ali (a.s.) then opened one seal and followed the instruction in it.

 

Then he delivered it to his son al-Hassan (a.s.). He opened a seal and followed that which was therein. He then delivered it to al-Husayn (a.s.). He opened one seal and found therein instruction that asked him to rise for martyrdom with a group of people. That there will be no martyrdom for them except along with and selling yourself to Allah, the Most Holy, the Most High. He followed all the instructions.

 

Then he delivered it to Ali ibn al-Husayn (a.s.).

 

He opened one seal and found therein instructions therein that asked him to fix his gaze just before him and remain silent, secluded in your house and worship your Lord until your death will arrive. He did as he was instructed and then delivered it to his son Muhammad ibn Ali (a. s.).

 

He opened one seal and found therein instructions that asked him to speak to people and make them learn. Do not fear anyone except Allah, the Most Holy, the Most High because no one can harm you. He followed the instructions and then delivered it to his son Ja'far (a.s.).

 

He opened one seal and found therein instructions that asked him to speak to people, make them learn, propagate the knowledge of your family (Ahl al-Bayt) and affirm the veracity of your righteous ancestors.

 

Do not be afraid of anyone except Allah, the Most Holy, the Most High because you are secure and safe. He did as was instructed and then delivered it to his son Musa (a.s.).

 

In the same Musa (a.s.) will deliver it to the succeeding Imam and so on up to the appearance of al-Mahdi (s.a) "

Forget it, many people just want to read Hadiths, and only get from the Hadiths the suffering of Ahlul Bayt, they never understand the wisdom, or solutions of Ahlul Bayt.

More over, many want to imagine in their minds, that when Umar, Abu Bakr, Uthman, and Aisha, were around, that Imam Ali was probably meditating on a hill on another planet and that when problems existed, there was different dimensions between Ahlul Bayt and the so called "sahaba;

only so they dont learn or understand the wisdom of Ahlul Bayt or understand events, and how Ahlul Bayt reacted in certain events. But some people learn nothing from Ahlul Bayt except that they were being oppressed, just so they can learn to be angry and furious, and then be unsuccessful and achieve nothing in Islam, or for our current Ummah. While we learn from Ahlul Bayt how to achieve victory and achieve glory while being oppressed, because this is what you ought to learn from Ahlul Bayt in order to do something for your religion, and for the path of Ahlul Bayt that you follow.

 

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