How would a shia find a flaw in this hadith

[Qasim_Husayn]

 

[2/10/16, 7:59 PM] suf m (saqibqutub@gmail.com):http://sunnah.com/bukhari/56/286

 

http://sunnah.com/abudawud/42/59


So essentially my wahabi friend thinks he can use this as proof that Abu Bakr is among those who are blessed jannah. I know that the two are sunni hadith (and using sunni hadith to prove sunnism is outrageous), but is there a way to find a flaw in these hadith. 

[em]

salaam,

it appears that these are from the sunni book of Bukhari. i do recall hearing that some hadiths in Bukhari have been changed or altered to support the idea of Abu Bakr being the successor of the prophet.

[Abu-Jafar Herz]

The link contains the hadith where a Shii of Uthman is speaking, that's all you have to know to prompt you to ignore him. Abu Abdur rahman, who by the way is insulting Ameer al mumineen, may Allah disfigure him, is from the Shia of Uthman[la].  Abu Abdur rahman says "  إِنِّي لأَعْلَمُ مَا الَّذِي جَرَّأَ صَاحِبَكَ عَلَى الدِّمَاءِ " "Indeed I know what moved your companion(Imam Ali [as]) towards the shedding of blood."

The second hadith is from Abu Huraira [la] which was fabricated, since there were people who fought in badr who are not respected even by them. He fabricated many hadith like this for his umayyad masters.

 

 

Edited February 11, 2016 by Abu-Jafar Herz

[أبو فاطمة المحمدي]

3 hours ago, Qasim_Husayn said:

 

[2/10/16, 7:59 PM] suf m (saqibqutub@gmail.com):http://sunnah.com/bukhari/56/286

 

http://sunnah.com/abudawud/42/59


So essentially my wahabi friend thinks he can use this as proof that Abu Bakr is among those who are blessed jannah. I know that the two are sunni hadith (and using sunni hadith to prove sunnism is outrageous), but is there a way to find a flaw in these hadith. 

If the chains of those reports are sahih by our rijali system, why not? However, by Shi'i standards, they have da'if chains. So, we cannot accept them.

Edited February 11, 2016 by أبو فاطمة المحمدي

[AimplyAMuslim]

This is hilarious...wahabi friend and sunni friend there is so much love in these words that i am sure our dear prophet (pbh) must be very proud of all of us today.

[أبو فاطمة المحمدي]

4 minutes ago, AimplyAMuslim said:

This is hilarious...wahabi friend and sunni friend there is so much love in these words that i am sure our dear prophet (pbh) must be very proud of all of us today.

A Shi'ah can have a Sunni/Wahabi friend. There is nothing wrong in that.

[AimplyAMuslim]

why we can't just call ourselves Muslims? what have we accomplished by calling ourselves Sunni, Wahabee, Shia...absolutely nothing. It only spreads hate towards each other. Why we all can't just be Muslim as it was supposed to be as per Quarran.

Edited February 11, 2016 by AimplyAMuslim

[Abu-Jafar Herz]

3 hours ago, AimplyAMuslim said:

why we can't just call ourselves Muslims? what have we accomplished by calling ourselves Sunni, Wahabee, Shia...absolutely nothing. It only spreads hate towards each other. Why we all can't just be Muslim as it was supposed to be as per Quarran.

Soft and fuzzy speech like "we are all just Muslims" sounds nice but its far from the reality. Allah himself in the Qur'an distinguishes legal Muslims from believers. The prophet [saw] also ordered us to follow his family after him, and this is what we are doing. Those who go against the prophet [saw] are not doing what they are supposed to be doing.

[AimplyAMuslim]

Far from reality? So you are saying that during our prophet time this reality didn't existed? 

So we the followers screwed up. I completely agree with you.

This is the first time I have heard the phrase legal Muslim vs believers. How us as the followers distinguish between the two? We can't right because it's not our job it's up to Allah to decide so why are we wasting our time on such hideous topics?

i am not sure why in your last statement you defended so called the stereo typical definition of a Shiah. My debate has nothing to do with it. You should practice what you think is right I have no right to tell anyone they are wrong other than when I see we Muslims are labeling ourselves in so many different ways. We are either Muslims or non Muslims, period. By labeling ourselves we deviate from the true beauty of Islam. This is the only point I am making nothing else.

[Abu-Jafar Herz]

قَالَتِ الْأَعْرَابُ آمَنَّا ۖ قُلْ لَمْ تُؤْمِنُوا وَلَٰكِنْ قُولُوا أَسْلَمْنَا وَلَمَّا يَدْخُلِ الْإِيمَانُ فِي قُلُوبِكُمْ ۖ وَإِنْ تُطِيعُوا اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ لَا يَلِتْكُمْ مِنْ أَعْمَالِكُمْ شَيْئًا ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ غَفُورٌ رَحِيمٌ {14}

The verse says that the bedouins claim they have become believers. Allah corrects them and says to them that they have not become believers but have become Muslims. Allah [swt] says that they are Muslims and will also become believers when they obey Allah and his messenger. So yes, Muslim is in reality a legal term that has specific rules in fiqh. Your body, property, honor,etc, must be protected by us in brotherhood. If we see you in trouble or if we see you hungry we defend and feed you and we do the best we can not to harm you physically or emotionally.

There are four levels of faith, the first is Islam, the second is Iman, the third is piety, and the fourth is yaqeen.

Edited February 11, 2016 by Abu-Jafar Herz

[Abu-Jafar Herz]

علي بن إبراهيم، عن محمد بن عيسى، عن يونس بن عبد الرحمن، عن موسى بن بكر، عن فضيل بن يسار، عن أبي عبد الله (عليه السلام) قال: الايمان يشارك الاسلام والاسلام لا يشارك الايمان.

Imam jafar [as] said: "Iman is always attached to Islam but Islam is not always attached with Iman."

 

[أبو فاطمة المحمدي]

55 minutes ago, Abu-Jafar Herz said:

علي بن إبراهيم، عن محمد بن عيسى، عن يونس بن عبد الرحمن، عن موسى بن بكر، عن فضيل بن يسار، عن أبي عبد الله (عليه السلام) قال: الايمان يشارك الاسلام والاسلام لا يشارك الايمان.

Imam jafar [as] said: "Iman is always attached to Islam but Islam is not always attached with Iman."

 

May Allah bless you and your family.

[Abu-Jafar Herz]

1 hour ago, أبو فاطمة المحمدي said:

May Allah bless you and your family.

May Allah give you hasanat in this life and in the hereafter. 

[Shafaq.qazi]

A muslim is just a muslim this is very correct on the basis of the fact "Firqo me mat bato aur Allah ki rassi ko mazbooti se pakad lo" now following the first four words "firqo me mat bato" at this point who is correct, I hope AimplyAMuslim is. Who is denoting himself by some firqa and who is not.

[Shafaq.qazi]

Now come to what Rasool-Allah said and what Qur'an says.

I never came across even a single instance where Hazrat Ali (K.A.) had any quarrel to Hazrat Umar or Hazrat Abu Bakr.

I mean Give me some authentic reference. Had there been any differences, narrate one instance where Hazrat Ali(karmallahu Anhu) had with other two or all three.

[أبو فاطمة المحمدي]

1 hour ago, Shafaq.qazi said:

Now come to what Rasool-Allah said and what Qur'an says.

I never came across even a single instance where Hazrat Ali (K.A.) had any quarrel to Hazrat Umar or Hazrat Abu Bakr.

I mean Give me some authentic reference. Had there been any differences, narrate one instance where Hazrat Ali(karmallahu Anhu) had with other two or all three.

Do you want Shi'i references or Sunni references?

[Qasim_Husayn]

@Abu-Jafar Herz

http://sunnah.com/bukhari/64/308

Allah looked at those who witnessed Badr and said, "O the people of Badr (i.e. Badr Muslim warriors), do what you like, for I have forgiven you.

But what about this hadith it was narrated by Ali (as)

The reason why I have to find flaws in these hadith is because, my wahabi friend finds it stupid for me to use sahih sunni hadith to prove him wrong but when other sahih sunni hadith are presented I simply reject them calling them fabrications

I was hoping you could quote hadith that show Abu Bakr, Umar or Uthman ran away from badr

Edited February 15, 2016 by Qasim_Husayn

[Al-Englisi]

On 2/11/2016 at 0:23 PM, AimplyAMuslim said:

Far from reality? So you are saying that during our prophet time this reality didn't existed? 

 

Lol? 

The differences didn't exist at the time of the Prophet (s), because the point of contention is 'Who is responsible for the guidance and leadership of the Muslim Ummah AFTER the Prophet (s)'. In fact, this is a matter of following or ignoring the teachings and orders of the Prophet (s).