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On Tawassul

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As-Salam 'Alaikum,

Allah has commanded us to do tawassul in His Book (5:35):

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا اتَّقُوا اللَّهَ وَابْتَغُوا إِلَيْهِ الْوَسِيلَةَ وَجَاهِدُوا فِي سَبِيلِهِ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُفْلِحُونَ

You who have iman! Have taqwa of Allah and seek the wasilah unto Him, and do jihad in His Way, so that hopefully you will be successful.

Tawassul literally means seeking a wasilah unto Allah. In simpler terms, you need something from your Lord, and you have two options:

1. Asking Him directly, imploring Him to grant you your wish in consideration of your own worth before Him; or

2. Asking Him directly, but imploring Him to grant you your wishes in consideration of the worth of someone before Him.

The second case is that of tawassul

If I ask Allah directly without using tawassul, there is no problem with it. But, my supplication would be considered based upon my worth before my Creator. If I am not worth much in His eyes, then my du'a would be treated as such. Its chances of acceptance and fulfillment are thus significantly threatened. However, if my worth in Allah's eyes is very great, then my supplications would have very high chances of success.

Allah is aware that most of us are weak before Him. So, He has allowed and even commanded us to practice tawassul, as a mercy from Him.

Salafis then come up with their bid'ah in tawassul. To them, you can only do tawassul with the living believers, and never with any dead or unseen creature. There is no verse that forbids tawassul with the dead or unseen, and there is no hadith that forbids it either. Therefore, the Salafi position is only one of their bid'ahs in the religion. Besides, there is actual Qur'anic evidence in support of tawassul with the dead (17:56-57):

قُلِ ادْعُوا الَّذِينَ زَعَمْتُم مِّن دُونِهِ فَلَا يَمْلِكُونَ كَشْفَ الضُّرِّ عَنكُمْ وَلَا تَحْوِيلًا أُولَٰئِكَ الَّذِينَ يَدْعُونَ يَبْتَغُونَ إِلَىٰ رَبِّهِمُ الْوَسِيلَةَ أَيُّهُمْ أَقْرَبُ وَيَرْجُونَ رَحْمَتَهُ وَيَخَافُونَ عَذَابَهُ إِنَّ عَذَابَ رَبِّكَ كَانَ مَحْذُورًا

Say, ‘Invoke those whom you claim [to be gods] besides Him. They have no power to remove your distress nor to bring about any change [in your state]. They [themselves] are the ones who supplicate, seeking the wasilah unto their Lord, whoever is nearer [to Him], expecting His mercy and fearing His punishment.’ Indeed your Lord’s punishment is a thing to beware of.

This ayah reveals that Prophet 'Isa, peace be upon him, and other people that were deified practised tawassul. Each one of them took a person nearer to Allah than himself as his wasilah. Meanwhile, Prophet 'Isa, during his time, was the nearest creature to Allah alive. So, it was impossible that he was using a living person as his wasilah.

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Salamunalaykum,

Good post brother. I agree with tawassul when it is done properly as taught by our imams a.s and especially Rasullah s.a.w in reliable traditions in our classical/ trustworthy works.

It is also important to understand, seeking a means of nearness to Allah swt does not only mean through tawassul - it can be through good deeds, fasting, prayer, and so on. There are others who, Allahu'alam, try to make out as though waseelah has only one use and meaning. 

If someone asks Allah, for the sake of his mercy, and by the right of Rasullah s.a.w, there is no harm in it as per traditions and the sunnah.

But, if someone asks say, hazrat Abbas for a baby, forgiveness, protection, directly, rather than asking Allah for his sake, with the belief he is not independent but Allah has given him the power to forgive sins, grant children - i.e they say 'maula abbas has granted me a baby', these people are in deviation and error in my view. I almost felt physically sick when i heard some shia's on here believe he can forgive the sins.

But if someone asks Allah, for the sake of hazrat Abbas, i see no harm in it.

Edited by Tawheed313
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23 minutes ago, Tawheed313 said:

Salamunalaykum,

It is also important to understand, seeking a means of nearness to Allah swt does not only mean through tawassul - it can be through good deeds, fasting, prayer, and so on. There are others who, Allahu'alam, try to make out as though waseelah has only one use and meaning.

Wa 'alaikum salam,

You are correct, brother. In fact, each of our acts of 'ibadah is a wasilah. However, you were referring to tawassul in its broader sense. In the OP, I referred mainly to tawassul within the restricted context of supplications.

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57 minutes ago, أبو فاطمة المحمدي said:

Wa 'alaikum salam,

You are correct, brother. In fact, each of our acts of 'ibadah is a wasilah. However, you were referring to tawassul in its broader sense. In the OP, I referred mainly to tawassul within the restricted context of supplications.

salam brother

less than 3 months membership in Shiachat and having more than 100 posts on the issue of Tawassul sounds interesting! I think we better talk about something more productive than repeating our self: this is my suggestions:

1- why should we implore Allah to grant our wishes while we appeal to worth of His grand servants? Is it going to change Allah's mind over our need when we ask Him like this?

2- How should we understand other Ahadith relevant to this topic meanwhile contradicting the main IDEA of majority of Ahadith as I had posted a couple of days ago?

 

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4 minutes ago, mahdi servant.01 said:

salam brotherless than 3 months membership in Shiachat and having more than 100 posts on the issue of Tawassul sounds interesting! I think we better talk about something more productive than repeating our self: this is my suggestions:

Tawassul is a matter of 'aqidah, and can easily lead to idolatry if improperly practised. So, it has to be given importance. When one's 'aqidah is faulty, all his acts of 'ibadah are a waste. Therefore, it is a matter that must be discussed and understood well. Besides, the Prophet (peace be upon him and his family) spent the whole of 13 years in Makkah discussing mainly issues of 'aqidah, and more specifically issues bordering on Tawhid. That shows how important these topics are.

Discussing Tawhid is far better than discussing whether someone was a gay, or whether someone poisoned the Prophet.

Quote

1- why should we implore Allah to grant our wishes while we appeal to worth of His grand servants? Is it going to change Allah's mind over our need when we ask Him like this?

Why should you not?!

If you think your worth with Allah is great enough, you apparently do not need tawassul. However, as I have explained in the OP, we can benefit from the high status of the Prophets and the Imams, peace be upon them, through tawassul, in our du'as. The attention Allah pays to your du'a depends on your worth, or the worth of your wasilah. You certainly do not consider your du'a to be equal in value with the du'a of the Prophet, in terms of the level of importance and urgency which Allah attaches to each.

Quote

2- How should we understand other Ahadith relevant to this topic meanwhile contradicting the main IDEA of majority of Ahadith as I had posted a couple of days ago?

Please quote those ahadith here. I hate cross-discussing.

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15 minutes ago, mahdi servant.01 said:

salam brother

less than 3 months membership in Shiachat and having more than 100 posts on the issue of Tawassul sounds interesting! I think we better talk about something more productive than repeating our self: this is my suggestions:

1- why should we implore Allah to grant our wishes while we appeal to worth of His grand servants? Is it going to change Allah's mind over our need when we ask Him like this?

2- How should we understand other Ahadith relevant to this topic meanwhile contradicting the main IDEA of majority of Ahadith as I had posted a couple of days ago?

 

He has had other accounts in the past and contributed lots of valuable information to the site, particularly in the Shi'a-Sunni debate section.

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5 minutes ago, أبو فاطمة المحمدي said:

If you think your worth with Allah is great enough, you apparently do not need tawassul.

did not get the point brother!

what I meant was to discuss that such view on Tawassul would not lead to changeableness of Allah?

8 minutes ago, أبو فاطمة المحمدي said:

The attention Allah pays to your du'a depends on your worth, or the worth of your wasilah.

How ? so we subconsciously believe in CHANGEABLENESS that Allah's look upon us will differ if we ask or if prophet ask on behalf of us?

10 minutes ago, أبو فاطمة المحمدي said:

Please quote those ahadith here. I hate cross-discussing

first let's solve the idea of changeableness i will post it later..

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5 minutes ago, mahdi servant.01 said:

did not get the point brother!

what I meant was to discuss that such view on Tawassul would not lead to changeableness of Allah?

How ? so we subconsciously believe in CHANGEABLENESS that Allah's look upon us will differ if we ask or if prophet ask on behalf of us?

first let's solve the idea of changeableness i will post it later..

You need to first what you mean by "changeableness." Are you denying that Allah has arbitrary powers, and can do anything anytime? Do you have doubts or objections concerning changes in Allah's decisions? Are suggesting that if Allah changes His decision, it then means that He Himself has changed?

Please define your terms, and provide solid evidences to back up whatever position you take on it.

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3 hours ago, أبو فاطمة المحمدي said:

As-Salam 'Alaikum,

Allah has commanded us to do tawassul in His Book (5:35):

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا اتَّقُوا اللَّهَ وَابْتَغُوا إِلَيْهِ الْوَسِيلَةَ وَجَاهِدُوا فِي سَبِيلِهِ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُفْلِحُونَ

You who have iman! Have taqwa of Allah and seek the wasilah unto Him, and do jihad in His Way, so that hopefully you will be successful.

Tawassul literally means seeking a wasilah unto Allah. In simpler terms, you need something from your Lord, and you have two options:

1. Asking Him directly, imploring Him to grant you your wish in consideration of your own worth before Him; or

2. Asking Him directly, but imploring Him to grant you your wishes in consideration of the worth of someone before Him.

The second case is that of tawassul

If I ask Allah directly without using tawassul, there is no problem with it. But, my supplication would be considered based upon my worth before my Creator. If I am not worth much in His eyes, then my du'a would be treated as such. Its chances of acceptance and fulfillment are thus significantly threatened. However, if my worth in Allah's eyes is very great, then my supplications would have very high chances of success.

Allah is aware that most of us are weak before Him. So, He has allowed and even commanded us to practice tawassul, as a mercy from Him.

Salafis then come up with their bid'ah in tawassul. To them, you can only do tawassul with the living believers, and never with any dead or unseen creature. There is no verse that forbids tawassul with the dead or unseen, and there is no hadith that forbids it either. Therefore, the Salafi position is only one of their bid'ahs in the religion. Besides, there is actual Qur'anic evidence in support of tawassul with the dead (17:56-57):

قُلِ ادْعُوا الَّذِينَ زَعَمْتُم مِّن دُونِهِ فَلَا يَمْلِكُونَ كَشْفَ الضُّرِّ عَنكُمْ وَلَا تَحْوِيلًا أُولَٰئِكَ الَّذِينَ يَدْعُونَ يَبْتَغُونَ إِلَىٰ رَبِّهِمُ الْوَسِيلَةَ أَيُّهُمْ أَقْرَبُ وَيَرْجُونَ رَحْمَتَهُ وَيَخَافُونَ عَذَابَهُ إِنَّ عَذَابَ رَبِّكَ كَانَ مَحْذُورًا

Say, ‘Invoke those whom you claim [to be gods] besides Him. They have no power to remove your distress nor to bring about any change [in your state]. They [themselves] are the ones who supplicate, seeking the wasilah unto their Lord, whoever is nearer [to Him], expecting His mercy and fearing His punishment.’ Indeed your Lord’s punishment is a thing to beware of.

This ayah reveals that Prophet 'Isa, peace be upon him, and other people that were deified practised tawassul. Each one of them took a person nearer to Allah than himself as his wasilah. Meanwhile, Prophet 'Isa, during his time, was the nearest creature to Allah alive. So, it was impossible that he was using a living person as his wasilah.

Assalam Alaekum

A lot of discussion has been carried out so far in this forum, on this issue. (Dua ie praying to Allah swt and tawassal). The following is the categorization which is obvious to the members.

A- First Group by Praying to Allah swt 

This group  directly prays to Allah swt without any intercessor/ waseela.

.B- Second group by Praying to Allah swt with Waseela:

This group prays to Allah swt with some waseela, like that of the prophet and his Ahl albayat.

C- Third group Praying to Allah swt by seeking the waseela of the prophet or Ahl albayat: by addressing them too:

The group prays to Allah swt by seeking the waseela of the prophet, his Ahl albaayat or saints and call them directly.

The first group (sometime even) denies the waseela verses. The second group follows the practices of both A & B groups

The third group follows the practices of all three groups ie  A, B & C.

There are disagreements specially between the first and the third groups.

Just to conclude  on this matter i quote this link:

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235019065-not-a-sin-to-call-others-beside-god/?do=findComment&comment=2652981

Wassalam

Edited by skamran110
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1 hour ago, skamran110 said:

C- Third group Praying to Allah swt by seeking the waseela of the prophet or Ahl albayat: by addressing them too:

The group prays to Allah swt by seeking the waseela of the prophet, his Ahl albaayat or saints and call them directly.

This is the correct form of istighathah.

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4 hours ago, Tawheed313 said:

But, if someone asks say, hazrat Abbas for a baby, forgiveness, protection, directly, rather than asking Allah for his sake, with the belief he is not independent but Allah has given him the power to forgive sins, grant children - i.e they say 'maula abbas has granted me a baby', these people are in deviation and error in my view. I almost felt physically sick when i heard some shia's on here believe he can forgive the sins.

But if someone asks Allah, for the sake of hazrat Abbas, i see no harm in it.

Salamon Alaikum

I couldnt understand the reason of your objection, what's wrong with that? could you elaborate a bit on your reasons which back your belief?

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23 minutes ago, mt110 said:

Salamon Alaikum

I couldnt understand the reason of your objection, what's wrong with that? could you elaborate a bit on your reasons which back your belief?

Wa 'alaikum salam.

He has already given his reasons several times on this forum. Basically, they are:

1. While Allah has permitted us to do tawassul with the status of his beloved slaves, He has forbidden us to take our needs directly to them. It is undiluted Shirk to direct your du'as to a slave of Allah under any circumstance. Several verses of the Qur'an testify to this.

2. No prophet or Imam has ever directed his du'a to a any creature of Allah. They are our role models. In fact, according to a sahih report of Hadith al-Thaqalayn (in the Shi'i books), if we go beyond the Ahl al-Bayt (peace be upon them), we will go astray.

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3 hours ago, أبو فاطمة المحمدي said:

You need to first what you mean by "changeableness." Are you denying that Allah has arbitrary powers, and can do anything anytime? Do you have doubts or objections concerning changes in Allah's decisions? Are suggesting that if Allah changes His decision, it then means that He Himself has changed?

Please define your terms, and provide solid evidences to back up whatever position you take on it.

Salam

Sure, who could deny that Allah has arbitrary power! but do you believe that you will affect Allah by your way of Dua? so Allah will change His decision by our request?

 

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3 hours ago, أبو فاطمة المحمدي said:

Please quote those ahadith here. I hate cross-discussing.

 

these are part of it

 

On ٣٠‏/١‏/٢٠١٦ at 5:36 PM, mahdi servant.01 said:

عَنْهُ عَنِ الْحَسَنِ بْنِ عَلِيِّ بْنِ فَضَّالٍ عَنْ عَلِيِّ بْنِ عُقْبَةَ عَنْ يَحْيَى بْنِ زَكَرِيَّا أَخِي دَارِمٍ قَالَ قَالَ أَبُو عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ع كَانَ أَبِي يَقُولُ‏ إِنَّ شِيعَتَنَا آخِذُونَ بِحُجْزَتِنَا وَ نَحْنُ آخِذُونَ بِحُجْزَةِ نَبِيِّنَا وَ نَبِيُّنَا آخُذٌ بِحُجْزَةِ اللَّهِ‏

the translation :

verily our Shia will hold on to us while we are holding on to the prophet and the prophet holds on to Allah s.w.t

On ٣٠‏/١‏/٢٠١٦ at 5:36 PM, mahdi servant.01 said:

فَقَالَ لَهُ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ أَنْتَ مَعَ مَنْ أَحْبَبْتَ وَ لَكَ مَا اكْتَسَبْتَ وَ قَالَ مَا تَبْغُونَ وَ مَا تُرِيدُونَ أَمَا إِنَّهَا لَوْ كَانَ فَزْعَةٌ مِنَ السَّمَاءِ فَزِعَ كُلُّ قَوْمٍ إِلَى مَأْمَنِهِمْ وَ فَزِعْنَا إِلَى نَبِيِّنَا وَ فَزِعْتُمْ‏ إِلَيْنَا

 

Rasul Allah says : you will be with the one you love and for you would be what you gain and he said what do you seek and wish, be aware that if there was a fright/terror from the sky all would seek protection and we would take refuge in prophet and you would seek refuge in us.

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55 minutes ago, أبو فاطمة المحمدي said:

Wa 'alaikum salam.

He has already given his reasons several times on this forum. Basically, they are:

1. While Allah has permitted us to do tawassul with the status of his beloved slaves, He has forbidden us to take our needs directly to them. It is undiluted Shirk to direct your du'as to a slave of Allah under any circumstance. Several verses of the Qur'an testify to this.

2. No prophet or Imam has ever directed his du'a to a any creature of Allah. They are our role models. In fact, according to a sahih report of Hadith al-Thaqalayn (in the Shi'i books), if we go beyond the Ahl al-Bayt (peace be upon them), we will go astray.

Is it impossible in and of itself to ask them for instance to heal my sickness, i mean, Is that beyond their power and ability or this is possible but is prohibited in our sharia.

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Audhu billahi min ash-shaitanir rajeem.

Bismillah, ar-Rahman, ar-Rahim

AsSalam Alaykum,

 

This should clarify, any ambiguity for all shia and/or non shia. When we are talking about people who profess to [1] and publicly announce [2]. We may be unconsciously, spreading unwarranted rumors and stereotyping. Specially, when we do not have anyone, promoting such views and except for someone giving statistics about such” acts of shirk”no way of verifying the facts. [It's all subjective]

 

1] Shahada (Muslim[Shia]-Testament of Faith)

 

Ash-hado an la ilaha illAllah

(I bear witness that there is no God But Allah)

Wahdahoo la shareeka lah

(The one, Who has no Partner)

Wa ash-hado anna Muhammadun abdohoo wa Rasoolullah…..

(and I bear witness that Muhammad is His Slave and Messenger.

Ash-hado an Aliyun Waleeullah, Wasi-o-Rasoolilah

(I bear witness that Ali is the Wali of Allah, rightful executor of the Will of the Prophet)


 

2] Adhan[ Call to Prayer], from Muslim Mosques, repeat the Three testimony of Faith-Five times a Day for All to hear.

 

Allahu Akbar... ... ...... . (Allah is great)

Ash hadu an la ilaha illal lah . . . . . . . . . . (I testify that there is no deity but Allah)

Ash hadu anna Muhammadan Rasu lul lah . . . . . . . : . . (I testify that Muhammad is Allah's Messenger)

Ash hadu anna Amirul Muminina'Aliyyan Waliyyullah ……..(i.e. I testify that the Commander of the Faithful Imam Ali (Peace be on him) is the vicegerent of Allah)

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58 minutes ago, mahdi servant.01 said:

Salam

Sure, who could deny that Allah has arbitrary power! but do you believe that you will affect Allah by your way of Dua? so Allah will change His decision by our request?

 

Do you disbelieve that?

57 minutes ago, mahdi servant.01 said:

عَنْهُ عَنِ الْحَسَنِ بْنِ عَلِيِّ بْنِ فَضَّالٍ عَنْ عَلِيِّ بْنِ عُقْبَةَ عَنْ يَحْيَى بْنِ زَكَرِيَّا أَخِي دَارِمٍ قَالَ قَالَ أَبُو عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ع كَانَ أَبِي يَقُولُ‏ إِنَّ شِيعَتَنَا آخِذُونَ بِحُجْزَتِنَا وَ نَحْنُ آخِذُونَ بِحُجْزَةِ نَبِيِّنَا وَ نَبِيُّنَا آخُذٌ بِحُجْزَةِ اللَّهِ‏

This is the full hadith:

حدثنا محمد بن علي ماجيلويه رحمه الله، عن عمه محمد بن أبي القاسم، عن أحمد بن أبي عبد الله البرقي، عن أبيه، عن محمد بن سنان، عن أبي الجارود، عن محمد بن بشر الهمداني (3) قال: سمعت محمد بن الحنفية يقول: حدثني أمير المؤمنين عليه السلام أن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم يوم القيامة آخذ بحجزة الله، ونحن آخذون بحجزة نبينا، و شيعتنا آخذون بحجزتنا، قلت: يا أمير المؤمنين وما الحجزة؟ قال: الله أعظم من أن يوصف بالحجزة أو غير ذلك، ولكن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم آخذ بأمر الله، ونحن آل محمد آخذون بأمر نبينا وشيعتنا آخذون بأمرنا.

First, the report is da'if due to Muhammad b. Sinan. Second, it is clearly about the Day of Resurrection. And finally, the hadith explains itself. Shi'ah will follow the commands of the Ahl al-Bayt, peace be upon them. The Ahl al-Bayt will follow the commands of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him and his family. The Prophet will follow the commands of Allah.

So, how exactly is this relevant to discussions about istighathah (as you have defined it)?

1 hour ago, mahdi servant.01 said:

فَقَالَ لَهُ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ أَنْتَ مَعَ مَنْ أَحْبَبْتَ وَ لَكَ مَا اكْتَسَبْتَ وَ قَالَ مَا تَبْغُونَ وَ مَا تُرِيدُونَ أَمَا إِنَّهَا لَوْ كَانَ فَزْعَةٌ مِنَ السَّمَاءِ فَزِعَ كُلُّ قَوْمٍ إِلَى مَأْمَنِهِمْ وَ فَزِعْنَا إِلَى نَبِيِّنَا وَ فَزِعْتُمْ‏ إِلَيْنَا

This hadith also has a da'if chain due to Sahl b. Ziyad. Besides, the riwayah too is about the Hereafter, and has nothing to do with tawassul in this world.

عنهم، عن سهل بن زياد، عن الحسن بن علي بن فضال، عن علي بن عقبة، وثعلبة بن ميمون، وغالب بن عثمان، وهارون بن مسلم، عن بريد بن معاوية قال: كنت عند أبي جعفر (عليه السلام) في فسطاط له بمنى فنظر إلى زياد الأسود منقلع الرجل فرثا له (1) فقال له: ما لرجليك هكذا؟ قال: جئت على بكر لي نضو فكنت (2) أمشي عنه عامة الطريق، فرثا له وقال له عند ذلك زياد: إني ألم بالذنوب حتى إذا ظننت أني قد هلكت ذكرت حبكم فرجوت النجاة وتجلى عني فقال أبو جعفر (عليه السلام): وهل الدين إلا الحب؟ قال الله تعالى: " حبب إليكم الايمان وزينه في قلوبكم (3) " وقال: " إن كنتم تحبون الله فاتبعوني يحببكم الله (4) " وقال: " يحبون من هاجر إليهم (5) " إن رجلا أتى النبي (صلى الله عليه وآله) فقال يا رسول الله أحب المصلين ولا أصلي (6) وأحب الصوامين ولا أصوم؟ فقال له رسول الله (صلى الله عليه وآله): أنت مع من أحببت ولك ما اكتسبت وقال: ما تبغون وما تريدون أما إنها لو كان فزعة من السماء فزع كل قوم إلى مأمنهم وفزعنا إلى نبينا وفزعتم إلينا.

The hadith also contains some clear repugnant parts that contradict the Qur'an. It suggests that people who "love" the Ahl al-Bayt while deliberating abandoning salat and fasting will still be in Paradise. According to the Book of Allah, love is actually displayed through obedience to Allah and adherence to the authentic Sunnah of the Prophet.

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5 minutes ago, S.M.H.A. said:

Audhu billahi min ash-shaitanir rajeem.

Bismillah, ar-Rahman, ar-Rahim

AsSalam Alaykum,

 

This should clarify, any ambiguity for all shia and/or non shia. When we are talking about people who profess to [1] and publicly announce [2]. We may be unconsciously, spreading unwarranted rumors and stereotyping. Specially, when we do not have anyone, promoting such views and except for someone giving statistics about such” acts of shirk”no way of verifying the facts. [It's all subjective]

 

1] Shahada (Muslim[Shia]-Testament of Faith)

 

Ash-hado an la ilaha illAllah

(I bear witness that there is no God But Allah)

Wahdahoo la shareeka lah

(The one, Who has no Partner)

Wa ash-hado anna Muhammadun abdohoo wa Rasoolullah…..

(and I bear witness that Muhammad is His Slave and Messenger.

Ash-hado an Aliyun Waleeullah, Wasi-o-Rasoolilah

(I bear witness that Ali is the Wali of Allah, rightful executor of the Will of the Prophet)


 

2] Adhan[ Call to Prayer], from Muslim Mosques, repeat the Three testimony of Faith-Five times a Day for All to hear.

 

Allahu Akbar... ... ...... . (Allah is great)

Ash hadu an la ilaha illal lah . . . . . . . . . . (I testify that there is no deity but Allah)

Ash hadu anna Muhammadan Rasu lul lah . . . . . . . : . . (I testify that Muhammad is Allah's Messenger)

Ash hadu anna Amirul Muminina'Aliyyan Waliyyullah ……..(i.e. I testify that the Commander of the Faithful Imam Ali (Peace be on him) is the vicegerent of Allah)

The fact that you claim something in the Shahadah does not automatically mean that you follow it. The clear example of 'Abd Allah b. Ubayy has been given in the Qur'an. Please refer to the first verse of Surat al-Munafiqun.

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10 minutes ago, أبو فاطمة المحمدي said:

Do you disbelieve that?

I just asked you about that? but let's break it down a bit.

if you say this you would admit that creatures may cause creator to do or not to do!!  And it seems to have a philosophically wrong meaning that deficient could be cause for perfect being? do you believe in that?

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2 minutes ago, mt110 said:

I asked you the question, and waiting for your answer.

قُل لَّا أَمْلِكُ لِنَفْسِي ضَرًّا وَلَا نَفْعًا إِلَّا مَا شَاءَ اللَّهُ لِكُلِّ أُمَّةٍ أَجَلٌ إِذَا جَاءَ أَجَلُهُمْ فَلَا يَسْتَأْخِرُونَ سَاعَةً وَلَا يَسْتَقْدِمُونَ

Say: ´I possess no power to harm or help myself except as Allah wills. Every nation has an appointed time. When their appointed time comes, they cannot delay it a single hour or bring it forward.´

Qur'an 10:49

قُل لَّا أَمْلِكُ لِنَفْسِي نَفْعًا وَلَا ضَرًّا إِلَّا مَا شَاءَ اللَّهُ وَلَوْ كُنتُ أَعْلَمُ الْغَيْبَ لَاسْتَكْثَرْتُ مِنَ الْخَيْرِ وَمَا مَسَّنِيَ السُّوءُ إِنْ أَنَا إِلَّا نَذِيرٌ وَبَشِيرٌ لِّقَوْمٍ يُؤْمِنُونَ

Say: ´I possess no power to help or harm myself, except as Allah wills. If I had had knowledge of the Unseen, I would have sought to gain much good and no evil would have touched me. I am only a warner and a bringer of good news to people who have iman.´

Qur'an 7:188

أَأَتَّخِذُ مِن دُونِهِ آلِهَةً إِن يُرِدْنِ الرَّحْمَٰنُ بِضُرٍّ لَّا تُغْنِ عَنِّي شَفَاعَتُهُمْ شَيْئًا وَلَا يُنقِذُونِ

Am I to take as gods instead of Him those whose intercession, if the All-Merciful desires harm for me, will not help me at all and cannot save me?

Qur'an 36:23

وَلَئِن سَأَلْتَهُم مَّنْ خَلَقَ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضَ لَيَقُولُنَّ اللَّهُ قُلْ أَفَرَأَيْتُم مَّا تَدْعُونَ مِن دُونِ اللَّهِ إِنْ أَرَادَنِيَ اللَّهُ بِضُرٍّ هَلْ هُنَّ كَاشِفَاتُ ضُرِّهِ أَوْ أَرَادَنِي بِرَحْمَةٍ هَلْ هُنَّ مُمْسِكَاتُ رَحْمَتِهِ قُلْ حَسْبِيَ اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ يَتَوَكَّلُ الْمُتَوَكِّلُونَ

If you ask them, ´Who created the heavens and the earth?´ they will say, ´AllahSay: ´So what do you think? If Allah desires harm for me, can those you call upon besides Allah remove His harm? Or if He desires mercy for me, can they withhold His mercy?´ Say: ´Allah is enough for me. All those who truly trust put their trust in Him.´

Qur'an 39:38

سَيَقُولُ لَكَ الْمُخَلَّفُونَ مِنَ الْأَعْرَابِ شَغَلَتْنَا أَمْوَالُنَا وَأَهْلُونَا فَاسْتَغْفِرْ لَنَا يَقُولُونَ بِأَلْسِنَتِهِم مَّا لَيْسَ فِي قُلُوبِهِمْ قُلْ فَمَن يَمْلِكُ لَكُم مِّنَ اللَّهِ شَيْئًا إِنْ أَرَادَ بِكُمْ ضَرًّا أَوْ أَرَادَ بِكُمْ نَفْعًا بَلْ كَانَ اللَّهُ بِمَا تَعْمَلُونَ خَبِيرًا

Those Arabs who remained behind will say to you, ´Our wealth and families kept us occupied, so ask forgiveness for us.´ They say with their tongues what is not in their hearts. Say: ´Who can control Allah for you in any way whether He wants harm for you or wants benefit for you?´ Allah is aware of what you do.

Qur'an 48:11

قُلْ إِنِّي لَا أَمْلِكُ لَكُمْ ضَرًّا وَلَا رَشَدًا

Say: ´I possess no power to do you harm or to guide you right

Qur'an 72:21

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21 minutes ago, أبو فاطمة المحمدي said:

And finally, the hadith explains itself. Shi'ah will follow the commands of the Ahl al-Bayt, peace be upon them. The Ahl al-Bayt will follow the commands of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him and his family. The Prophet will follow the commands of Allah.

nice explanation, I did not notice the rest of hadith in the book I quoted in my post

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4 minutes ago, mahdi servant.01 said:

I just asked you about that? but let's break it down a bit.

if you say this you would admit that creatures may cause creator to do or not to do!!  And it seems to have a philosophically wrong meaning that deficient could be cause for perfect being? do you believe in that?

We do not base our religion upon philosophy. The sources of our Deen are only the Qur'an and authentic Sunnah.

Edited by أبو فاطمة المحمدي
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19 minutes ago, أبو فاطمة المحمدي said:

The fact that you claim something in the Shahadah does not automatically mean that you follow it. The clear example of 'Abd Allah b. Ubayy has been given in the Qur'an. Please refer to the first verse of Surat al-Munafiqun.

Are you saying that some Shia’s are munafiqs and mushriks in your view?

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2 minutes ago, S.M.H.A. said:

Are you saying that some Shia’s are munafiqs and mushriks in your view?

Are you denying that?

According to Imam al-Baqir, peace be upon him, in a sahih hadith: Shi'ah will be divided into 13 sects. Only one of them will be in Paradise. All the 12 other sects will be in Hellfire. And they will be fake Shi'ahs.

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3 minutes ago, أبو فاطمة المحمدي said:

We do not base our religion about philosophy. The sources of our Deen are only the Qur'an and authentic Sunnah.

this is clear point you wont need philosophy! just think of the concept of cause and effect!

 

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5 minutes ago, أبو فاطمة المحمدي said:

قُل لَّا أَمْلِكُ لِنَفْسِي ضَرًّا وَلَا نَفْعًا إِلَّا مَا شَاءَ اللَّهُ لِكُلِّ أُمَّةٍ أَجَلٌ إِذَا جَاءَ أَجَلُهُمْ فَلَا يَسْتَأْخِرُونَ سَاعَةً وَلَا يَسْتَقْدِمُونَ

Say: ´I possess no power to harm or help myself except as Allah wills. Every nation has an appointed time. When their appointed time comes, they cannot delay it a single hour or bring it forward.´

Qur'an 10:49

قُل لَّا أَمْلِكُ لِنَفْسِي نَفْعًا وَلَا ضَرًّا إِلَّا مَا شَاءَ اللَّهُ وَلَوْ كُنتُ أَعْلَمُ الْغَيْبَ لَاسْتَكْثَرْتُ مِنَ الْخَيْرِ وَمَا مَسَّنِيَ السُّوءُ إِنْ أَنَا إِلَّا نَذِيرٌ وَبَشِيرٌ لِّقَوْمٍ يُؤْمِنُونَ

Say: ´I possess no power to help or harm myself, except as Allah wills. If I had had knowledge of the Unseen, I would have sought to gain much good and no evil would have touched me. I am only a warner and a bringer of good news to people who have iman.´

Qur'an 7:188

أَأَتَّخِذُ مِن دُونِهِ آلِهَةً إِن يُرِدْنِ الرَّحْمَٰنُ بِضُرٍّ لَّا تُغْنِ عَنِّي شَفَاعَتُهُمْ شَيْئًا وَلَا يُنقِذُونِ

Am I to take as gods instead of Him those whose intercession, if the All-Merciful desires harm for me, will not help me at all and cannot save me?

Qur'an 36:23

وَلَئِن سَأَلْتَهُم مَّنْ خَلَقَ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضَ لَيَقُولُنَّ اللَّهُ قُلْ أَفَرَأَيْتُم مَّا تَدْعُونَ مِن دُونِ اللَّهِ إِنْ أَرَادَنِيَ اللَّهُ بِضُرٍّ هَلْ هُنَّ كَاشِفَاتُ ضُرِّهِ أَوْ أَرَادَنِي بِرَحْمَةٍ هَلْ هُنَّ مُمْسِكَاتُ رَحْمَتِهِ قُلْ حَسْبِيَ اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ يَتَوَكَّلُ الْمُتَوَكِّلُونَ

If you ask them, ´Who created the heavens and the earth?´ they will say, ´AllahSay: ´So what do you think? If Allah desires harm for me, can those you call upon besides Allah remove His harm? Or if He desires mercy for me, can they withhold His mercy?´ Say: ´Allah is enough for me. All those who truly trust put their trust in Him.´

Qur'an 39:38

سَيَقُولُ لَكَ الْمُخَلَّفُونَ مِنَ الْأَعْرَابِ شَغَلَتْنَا أَمْوَالُنَا وَأَهْلُونَا فَاسْتَغْفِرْ لَنَا يَقُولُونَ بِأَلْسِنَتِهِم مَّا لَيْسَ فِي قُلُوبِهِمْ قُلْ فَمَن يَمْلِكُ لَكُم مِّنَ اللَّهِ شَيْئًا إِنْ أَرَادَ بِكُمْ ضَرًّا أَوْ أَرَادَ بِكُمْ نَفْعًا بَلْ كَانَ اللَّهُ بِمَا تَعْمَلُونَ خَبِيرًا

Those Arabs who remained behind will say to you, ´Our wealth and families kept us occupied, so ask forgiveness for us.´ They say with their tongues what is not in their hearts. Say: ´Who can control Allah for you in any way whether He wants harm for you or wants benefit for you?´ Allah is aware of what you do.

Qur'an 48:11

قُلْ إِنِّي لَا أَمْلِكُ لَكُمْ ضَرًّا وَلَا رَشَدًا

Say: ´I possess no power to do you harm or to guide you right

Qur'an 72:21

So you believe that such things like healing sicks are impossible, and there is no possibility of happening such thing at any time and any where, Am i right?

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7 minutes ago, أبو فاطمة المحمدي said:

Are you denying that?

According to Imam al-Baqir, peace be upon him, in a sahih hadith: Shi'ah will be divided into 13 sects. Only one of them will be in Paradise. All the 12 other sects will be in Hellfire. And they will be fake Shi'ahs.

out of my curiosity can I have the Hadith as well!!

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13 minutes ago, أبو فاطمة المحمدي said:

Are you denying that?

this is what I was fearing for you! do not do such judgment easily bro! I knowledge your sincere intention to defend Shia teachings but take into consideration there might be some gray area we at least should not rush to give our view on it.

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15 minutes ago, أبو فاطمة المحمدي said:

Are you denying that?

According to Imam al-Baqir, peace be upon him, in a sahih hadith: Shi'ah will be divided into 13 sects. Only one of them will be in Paradise. All the 12 other sects will be in Hellfire. And they will be fake Shi'ahs.

We can’t determine who is Real or Fake Shia here on the net.

 

A general comment for young ones. On the internet, we only deal with screen names, and in this era of psychological warfare, we can’t trust any  “Screen Name”, what they say, needs to be understood based on their action and what they imply, what they say with out saying it. We maybe in the conquest of Mecca moment. Kuffar who can’t defend would join in to undercut form within, all a person has to do is to tell nine truths to gain trust and the tenth could be a lie, we see these things all over the net. Usually they go with the low hanging fruit, and the indoctrination begins.

 

We need to be vigilant on the net on any forum. I am a screen name and my screen name initials could be fake or could mean something else.


So, we need to present Verifiable FACTS, if we are just dealing with hearsay, or outlier reports/videos/individuals we may be judging based on incomplete information. We do not know the intention of the person, as we have not seen concrete and repeated action to formulate a view.

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18 minutes ago, mt110 said:

So you believe that such things like healing sicks are impossible, and there is no possibility of happening such thing at any time and any where, Am i right?

Do you disbelieve the verses I quote? If you do not disbelieve in them, what do you think is their message? Please elaborate.

7 minutes ago, mahdi servant.01 said:

this is what I was fearing for you! do not do such judgment easily bro! I knowledge your sincere intention to defend Shia teachings but take into consideration there might be some gray area we at least should not rush to give our view on it.

According to the Prophet in Hadith al-Thaqalayn, we can never go astray if we stick only to the Qur'an and the authentic teachings of the Ahl al-Bayt. We do not need Aristotelian principles to guide us in our religion, and we do not rely upon cultural sensibilities in matters of our Deen.

4 minutes ago, S.M.H.A. said:

So, we need to present Verifiable FACTS, if we are just dealing with hearsay, or outlier reports/videos/individuals we may be judging based on incomplete information. We do not know the intention of the person, as we have not seen concrete and repeated action to formulate a view.

I believe the Qur'an and authentic ahadith are "verifiable" facts, and are sufficient for us.

Edited by أبو فاطمة المحمدي
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