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Do the shia give more attention to the imams than Allah

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I am shia myself. and then a sunni said that shias pay more attention to the imams than to Allah. I said thats not true! He said that shias always talk about ahlul-bayt. they spend a lot of time crying for imam Hussein and not much time crying for Allah. He said they focus more on visiting shrines and talking to the imams than to Allah. and he said that in shia mosques (which i've never been to so i don't know if he tells the truth) the mullahimam will spend more time talking about the family of the prophet and little time talking about Allah. and he went on and on. The thing is, based off of what i've seen on shiachat and other shia sites, that's just not true. But i'm now depressed about this because i've actually never been to a shia mosque or known too many other shias in person. somebody who is more experienced than me, please help prove these claims wrong.

Edited by em

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So,the very fact that you want the claims to be proved wrong,shows you that if the claims of ahlul Bayt (as) being given more importance than Allah (swt) is something,you can't digest. Let me be fair,from what i know of Shias,they of course worship Allah (swt) only,but they are highly inclined to use a tawassul as opposed to Sunnis,who rely on tawassul in shrines and beseech Allah (swt) only there and usually are in direct communication with Allah (awj) outside,always. Shias use the tawassul each and every time. And this makes a pretty picture,they give most importance to ahlul Bayt (as).

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1 hour ago, em said:

I am shia myself. and then a sunni said that shias pay more attention to the imams than to Allah. I said thats not true! He said that shias always talk about ahlul-bayt. they spend a lot of time crying for imam Hussein and not much time crying for Allah. He said they focus more on visiting shrines and talking to the imams than to Allah. and he said that in shia mosques (which i've never been to so i don't know if he tells the truth) the mullahimam will spend more time talking about the family of the prophet and little time talking about Allah. and he went on and on. The thing is, based off of what i've seen on shiachat and other shia sites, that's just not true. But i'm now depressed about this because i've actually never been to a shia mosque or known too many other shias in person. somebody who is more experienced than me, please help prove these claims wrong.

if you dont mind me asking Salam, why havent you visited a shiite mosque yet

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3 hours ago, em said:

I am shia myself. and then a sunni said that shias pay more attention to the imams than to Allah. I said thats not true! He said that shias always talk about ahlul-bayt. they spend a lot of time crying for imam Hussein and not much time crying for Allah. He said they focus more on visiting shrines and talking to the imams than to Allah. and he said that in shia mosques (which i've never been to so i don't know if he tells the truth) the mullahimam will spend more time talking about the family of the prophet and little time talking about Allah. and he went on and on. The thing is, based off of what i've seen on shiachat and other shia sites, that's just not true. But i'm now depressed about this because i've actually never been to a shia mosque or known too many other shias in person. somebody who is more experienced than me, please help prove these claims wrong.

Salaam brother,

         The very reason why the names of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) and his household are uttered is because of their nearness to Allah swt. Allah swt wants us to reach to Him through a rope and the rope is none other than these pious individuals. The person who is debating you is obviously mentioning about the Majlises. He is oblivious to the fact that Shias too pray to Allah swt. We have many supplications passed on to us through our Imams where we beseech Allah swt for His mercy. As mentioned in the Holy Quran, Allah swt wants us to love the family of the Prophet (pbuh) so when we do that we are labelled as ones who are more focused on Imams which is not true. They hold weight to us because of their affinity towards Allah swt.

Take your friend if you can to a Shia Mosque in your vicinity for Friday Prayers and you both can see how Allah swt and His other Prophets are praised in the sermons. We no doubt praise the creations but that doesn't mean that we have forgotten the creator. When Allah swt can chose certain set of people to guide the ummah why can't the same ummah use the guidance of those special ones to reach the Creator?

In short, let me assure you that the person who has told you the above is unaware of the intentions of the people. I would say that he has only been to a mosque during the month of Muharram and he seems to have never seen a Shia prayer congregation and is definitely unaware of the supplications invoked by us seeking Allah's swt mercy.

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37 minutes ago, yam_110 said:

Salaam brother,

         The very reason why the names of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) and his household are uttered is because of their nearness to Allah swt. Allah swt wants us to reach to Him through a rope and the rope is none other than these pious individuals. The person who is debating you is obviously mentioning about the Majlises. He is oblivious to the fact that Shias too pray to Allah swt. We have many supplications passed on to us through our Imams where we beseech Allah swt for His mercy. As mentioned in the Holy Quran, Allah swt wants us to love the family of the Prophet (pbuh) so when we do that we are labelled as ones who are more focused on Imams which is not true. They hold weight to us because of their affinity towards Allah swt.

Take your friend if you can to a Shia Mosque in your vicinity for Friday Prayers and you both can see how Allah swt and His other Prophets are praised in the sermons. We no doubt praise the creations but that doesn't mean that we have forgotten the creator. When Allah swt can chose certain set of people to guide the ummah why can't the same ummah use the guidance of those special ones to reach the Creator?

In short, let me assure you that the person who has told you the above is unaware of the intentions of the people. I would say that he has only been to a mosque during the month of Muharram and he seems to have never seen a Shia prayer congregation and is definitely unaware of the supplications invoked by us seeking Allah's swt mercy.

The very fact that Shias are accused of being indulged in imams (as) is only something to ponder. There is no smoke without fire.

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Mentioning aimmah in your speech is an act of worship. Mentioning Ali is worship. Say to your friend like this. When you mention imams, you also do zikr of Allah. Because they are highest creatures of Allah taala. Was it not said in alquran: DId not we elevate zikr of yours (Muhammad's) Muhammad asked jabriel what does it mean. so Jabriel as  replied when people remember you they remember Allah. That is mentioning Muhammad is recalling alla taala. And all imams are Muhammad, the first to the last. Ali is Muhammad, alhassan ibn ali is Muhammad, alhussein ibn ali is Muhammad and up to alhujjat min ali Muhammad. they are all Muhammad. So this is what alquran the kitabullah tells you. Not me. Bismillahirrahmanirraheem

Hope I answered you

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 To answer this question it’s necessary to clarify the position of the infallible Imams from shi’a point of view. We , Shi’a, believe that  the infallible Imams  and the holy Quran always go together in a single way, as, the holy prophet, peace be upon him, said’’ I left among you two precious gift , the holy Quran and my household, they will not separate each other till the day of judgment , if we reflect on this Hadith we will realize that  the infallible Imam’s actions, life style and statements   are deeply rooted in the holy Quran, which sent down to the holy prophet to guide people in the right path, therefore,   when we talk about Imam’s life style, statements…. ,In reality,  we talk about God’s order and Islamic teaching, we want to say that they are best role model for us to follow.   

 

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8 hours ago, em said:

I am shia myself. and then a sunni said that shias pay more attention to the imams than to Allah. I said thats not true! He said that shias always talk about ahlul-bayt. they spend a lot of time crying for imam Hussein and not much time crying for Allah. He said they focus more on visiting shrines and talking to the imams than to Allah. and he said that in shia mosques (which i've never been to so i don't know if he tells the truth) the mullahimam will spend more time talking about the family of the prophet and little time talking about Allah. and he went on and on. The thing is, based off of what i've seen on shiachat and other shia sites, that's just not true. But i'm now depressed about this because i've actually never been to a shia mosque or known too many other shias in person. somebody who is more experienced than me, please help prove these claims wrong.

You pay more attention to random sunnis than to what you claim is your belief? Thats a critical state your religion is in and that sunni hunting you is hunting you because of your serious lack of knowledge. You don't need a mosque to learn it, you can read books online and attend online lectures if you are serious about the subject. God help us.

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I think there are many Shias who are like that but the majority of Shias are not like that. Using the same logic one might as well call all Sunnis followers of Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi because many of them follow him. Except that the former accusation is much more drastic and vile.

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@em

Salam,

- Who appointed the prophets including the last prophet Muhammad saww?    

Certainly Allah conferred a benefit upon the believers when He raised among them an Apostle from among themselves, reciting to them His communications and purifying them, and teaching them the Book and the wisdom, although before that they were surely in manifest error. (3:164)

So Allah swt appointed  our last prophet Muhammad saww.

- Who ordered us to follow the Prophet? 

Say: If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your faults, and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. (3:31)

Say: Obey Allah and the Apostle; but if they turn back, then surely Allah does not love the unbelievers. (32)

So Allah swt ordered us to follow the prophet Muhammad.

- Who ordered us to follow Quran and Ahl albayat?

As per hadith Thaqlayn the prophet ordered us to follow two heavy things ie quran and Ahl albayat and they are non separable.

Thus we follow Quran and Ahl albayt (Imams from the progeny of the prophet ) as per the order of the prophet of Allah swt who has been sent to us by Allah swt. Following them means obeying the prophet and obeying the prophet is obeying Allah swt.

i hope it will clarify your mind.

wassalam

 

 

 

 

Edited by skamran110
Correction

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I think a lot of people try to worship Allah without the means he wishes for them to approach him. 

We see Quran emphasized through out, that when God manifests chosen ones, it's essential for society to centralize around them.

Through Mohammad, Ali, Fatima, Hassan and Hussain and the 9 Imams from the offspring of Hussain, we essentially can worship God properly and have a proper understanding of God. 

God out of his wisdom singled out the path towards him with the love of the family of Mohammad. 

Say: no wage do I ask for it, except the love in the near kin (of mine)

Allah [swt] could of said, no love but love in God. But we know everyone claims to have that love, polytheists included, people of all religions, people of all sorts of ideologies.

He could of also stated "but obedience to the Ulil-Amr" or "but obedience to the family of Mohammad", but we know that is obedience to God anyhow. 

Rather Allah [swt] emphasized on their love, on attaching ourselves to them, a higher quality of love, that if we have, we automatically will walk the straight path.

Not only that, but the whole way of showing gratitude towards receiving the message, is to love the family of Mohammad. Essentially loving them includes recognizing they have been honoured as being guides to Allah, and loving Allah which is the essence of their souls (love of Allah), but it's also to love the light of God and praise of God vested in their souls. 

It's also to love in proportion of that love towards those who have their light and blessed beauty in them to various degrees.

The Prophets are the closest people to this station, naturally loving them is most essential to loving Ahlulbayt. Pious and good people are naturally included to be loved by for the same reason.

Loving Allah's light in creation is essentially how we can love Allah. No matter what we can never truly see Allah's light in it's full glory, all we can see is degrees of it being brought down. 

The light brought down is essential to believe in. Believing that not only means we understand and honour the light of the Quran, but also Ahlulbayt. And honoring that light, we ought to honour that light in creation in general.

If we truly believe in the light brought down, everything becomes easy. The signs of God within ourselves are also appreciated, and we appreciate God's favour.

Is it a coincidence that the Sufi sunnis who appreciate the light of God in creation more, attach themselves to Ahlulbayt even if it's not sincerely to the degree they ought to do it?

While we see the most hostile people towards Ahlulbayt from the sunnis are those most hostile to the light of God brought down in creation.

We don't see Sunni sufis blowing themselves in Masjids. This is because they have some appreciation to God's sanctity in his light brought down. They love for the sake of God.

This love of God and his light brought down, is essential, to anyone who wishes to love for the sake of God.

 

 

 

 

 

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14 hours ago, yam_110 said:

Salaam brother,

         The very reason why the names of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) and his household are uttered is because of their nearness to Allah swt. Allah swt wants us to reach to Him through a rope and the rope is none other than these pious individuals. The person who is debating you is obviously mentioning about the Majlises. He is oblivious to the fact that Shias too pray to Allah swt. We have many supplications passed on to us through our Imams where we beseech Allah swt for His mercy. As mentioned in the Holy Quran, Allah swt wants us to love the family of the Prophet (pbuh) so when we do that we are labelled as ones who are more focused on Imams which is not true. They hold weight to us because of their affinity towards Allah swt.

Take your friend if you can to a Shia Mosque in your vicinity for Friday Prayers and you both can see how Allah swt and His other Prophets are praised in the sermons. We no doubt praise the creations but that doesn't mean that we have forgotten the creator. When Allah swt can chose certain set of people to guide the ummah why can't the same ummah use the guidance of those special ones to reach the Creator?

In short, let me assure you that the person who has told you the above is unaware of the intentions of the people. I would say that he has only been to a mosque during the month of Muharram and he seems to have never seen a Shia prayer congregation and is definitely unaware of the supplications invoked by us seeking Allah's swt mercy.

thanks for the response. i would like to take my friend to a shia mosque, but i myself haven't been to one. i live in a very small town with no mosque sunni or shia. he is one of the few Muslims i know living here. he took a Qur'an out and bookmarked all these surahs that supported his arguement. like this one.

Knowest thou not that to Allah belongs the kingdom of the heavens and the earth, and that you have none, apart from God, neither protector nor helper?  2:107

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18 hours ago, em said:

I am shia myself. and then a sunni said that shias pay more attention to the imams than to Allah. I said thats not true! He said that shias always talk about ahlul-bayt. they spend a lot of time crying for imam Hussein and not much time crying for Allah. He said they focus more on visiting shrines and talking to the imams than to Allah. and he said that in shia mosques (which i've never been to so i don't know if he tells the truth) the mullahimam will spend more time talking about the family of the prophet and little time talking about Allah. and he went on and on. The thing is, based off of what i've seen on shiachat and other shia sites, that's just not true. But i'm now depressed about this because i've actually never been to a shia mosque or known too many other shias in person. somebody who is more experienced than me, please help prove these claims wrong.

Loving Allah is loving the Prophet s.a.w.

Loving the Prophet s.a.w. is loving the Ahl al-Bayt a.s.

Edited by Skanderbeg

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1 hour ago, Skanderbeg said:

Loving Allah is loving the Prophet s.a.w.

Loving the Prophet s.a.w. is loving the Ahl al-Bayt a.s.

This wisdom is in fact hinted in Suratal Shura for example. It talks about the wage of loving the near kin (of Mohammad), and at the end, it emphasizes on the spirit inspired by his command that made Mohammad know what the book and faith is, and that he made it a light by which he guides who he pleases from his servants, and that Mohammad Guides to the straight path. Then it says "the path of God". The family of Mohammad are guided by that same spirit from his command, and the love of the family of Mohammad has been called "the path of God". The emphasizing that it's the path of God in the final verse settles all questions about why love of the family of Mohammad as opposed to love of Allah. It's united as being the "the path of Allah".

 

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Salam, 

Dear brother, 

The Salawat upon Our Prophet Muhammad s.a.w. and His Progeny a.s. survived in the salat through the Umayyad and the Abassides, still preserved in the salat of the Ibadi's (former Khawarij) and even the Salafi's. 

Isn't that a sign that as Allah preserves the Quran He preserves the status of the Ahl al-Bayt as well?

For those who use reason it surely is a sign. But those not recogizing will keep on wandering blindly.


 

Edited by Skanderbeg

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11 hours ago, skamran110 said:

@em

Salam,

- Who appointed the prophets including the last prophet Muhammad saww?    

Certainly Allah conferred a benefit upon the believers when He raised among them an Apostle from among themselves, reciting to them His communications and purifying them, and teaching them the Book and the wisdom, although before that they were surely in manifest error. (3:164)

So Allah swt appointed  our last prophet Muhammad saww.

- Who ordered us to follow the Prophet? 

Say: If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your faults, and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. (3:31)

Say: Obey Allah and the Apostle; but if they turn back, then surely Allah does not love the unbelievers. (32)

So Allah swt ordered us to follow the prophet Muhammad.

- Who ordered us to follow Quran and Ahl albayat?

As per hadith Thaqlayn the prophet ordered us to follow two heavy things ie quran and Ahl albayat and they are non separable.

Thus we follow Quran and Ahl albayt (Imams from the progeny of the prophet ) as per the order of the prophet of Allah swt who has been sent to us by Allah swt. Following them means obeying the prophet and obeying the prophet is obeying Allah swt.

i hope it will clarify your mind.

wassalam

 

 

 

 

excellent

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18 hours ago, sunnilove2hussain said:

The very fact that Shias are accused of being indulged in imams (as) is only something to ponder. There is no smoke without fire.

If someone says that Sunnis love the Sahabas more than the Holy Prophet (pbuh), would that be a true statement? There are several instances mentioned in your books which allude to this but does that mean that all Sunnis believe it to be true? As per your statement above, there is no smoke without fire. If you deny the above, then it is clearly the same case here. People take Majlises as a criteria to judge the Shias forgetting the prayers and the supplications which follow the prayers. Remember, half knowledge is dangerous.

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5 hours ago, em said:

thanks for the response. i would like to take my friend to a shia mosque, but i myself haven't been to one. i live in a very small town with no mosque sunni or shia. he is one of the few Muslims i know living here. he took a Qur'an out and bookmarked all these surahs that supported his arguement. like this one.

Knowest thou not that to Allah belongs the kingdom of the heavens and the earth, and that you have none, apart from God, neither protector nor helper?  2:107

The very same Quran has verses where believers are commanded to love the progeny of the Holy Prophet (pbuh). 

As it has been mentioned previously, loving the Holy Prophet (pbuh) and the Imams is a sign of a believer. We do things commanded by the Allah swt and Prophet's ahlul bayt in order to please the Exalted One.

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On 2/4/2016 at 11:36 PM, yam_110 said:

Salaam brother,

         The very reason why the names of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) and his household are uttered is because of their nearness to Allah swt. Allah swt wants us to reach to Him through a rope and the rope is none other than these pious individuals. The person who is debating you is obviously mentioning about the Majlises. He is oblivious to the fact that Shias too pray to Allah swt. We have many supplications passed on to us through our Imams where we beseech Allah swt for His mercy. As mentioned in the Holy Quran, Allah swt wants us to love the family of the Prophet (pbuh) so when we do that we are labelled as ones who are more focused on Imams which is not true. They hold weight to us because of their affinity towards Allah swt.

Take your friend if you can to a Shia Mosque in your vicinity for Friday Prayers and you both can see how Allah swt and His other Prophets are praised in the sermons. We no doubt praise the creations but that doesn't mean that we have forgotten the creator. When Allah swt can chose certain set of people to guide the ummah why can't the same ummah use the guidance of those special ones to reach the Creator?

In short, let me assure you that the person who has told you the above is unaware of the intentions of the people. I would say that he has only been to a mosque during the month of Muharram and he seems to have never seen a Shia prayer congregation and is definitely unaware of the supplications invoked by us seeking Allah's swt mercy.

This answer is fantastic 

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