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In the Name of God بسم الله

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:bismillah:

Salaam.

To give some background, I have been brought up with Shia beliefs but recently, an encounter with another individual has led me to revisit these beliefs and its has made me realise, I actually don't know an awful lot about my own beliefs let alone the beliefs of others. 

I promised myself that I will look, discuss and seek to find that closest to the truth and to spot the discrepancies. I want to feel the peace that many believers do because they've found their path. But with little Muslim friends I have, my primary companion is the Internet. Since I've started researching into Shia'ism and Sunni'ism more, I feel I've become less practicing because I don't know what is right and wrong and this just pretty much had left me irritated with everything.

Has anyone else felt or encountered a scenario like this and how do you deal with it?

And please, no mean comments. 

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Aleykoum salam

You are not alone brother. When i was young i didn't knew what Shia and Sunni were. I thought we were all muslim and that was it. Sadly one of my sunni friend became extremist for 4 year and started telling me what we Shia were doing was wrong and that we were not muslim. Most of my friend were sunni and started to go to the same mosque. They all turned on me (and other shia from our group). That's when i realised i didn't knew a lot about Islam and Shia/Sunni. When my friend told me what we Shia were doing i didn't believed him. He said (what all extremist says about shia) that we worship Ali (as) that we have the Trinity like chrisitan. That's when i started reaserching about Shia Islam and Sunni Islam.

If you are Shia talk to your parents about religion. Maybe they don't know much ( my parent didn't knew a awfull lot but they helped me). Talk to a Shia Cheikh. Most important that i suggest is Read the Quran. 

Also i suggest you to read the ''Nights of Peshawar''. It's a debate between a Shia and a Sunni cleric that really hapenned back in the days. It is very informative. So this is what i sugest.

Maybe you will like Sunni islam more I didn't. Don't let your friend brainwash you in telling you Shia are not muslim. Look for yourself.

 

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I was the same, I actually ended up being hospitalized from all the online researching because I was sleep deprived, what I did was research until I found the path I believed is true. One of the main reason that kept me from being sunni is that they believe all the sahaba are pious, to me this is completely absurd.

Edited by HumanForLife

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19 minutes ago, HumanForLife said:

I was the same, I actually ended up being hospitalized from all the online researching because I was sleep deprived, what I did was research until I found the path I believed is true. One of the main reason that kept me from being sunni is that they believe all the sahaba are pious, to me this is completely absurd.

Wow, mash'Allah. How long were you researching for until you found your path?

 

19 minutes ago, HumanForLife said:

One of the main reason that kept me from being sunni is that they believe all the sahaba are pious, to me this is completely absurd.

Interesting you raise this because I was discussing this with my friend recently. The difficulty they had in not accepting this was because they couldn't understand how the companions who are today taken as Caliphs by most could abruptly and suddenly turn against the Prophet (pbuh) by oppressing his family after they had spent decades with him trying to propagate the message of Islam. 

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Dear OP:

Besides Quran, there is no 100% authentic book that Muslims have. Yes there are hadith books which do contain numerous authentic sayings of the Prophet s.a.w. but some of those are also made up to fulfill later political ambitions of the bad apples.

I would suggest start with basic reasoning to come to the truth, the normal common sense things such as:

1. Why would all sahaba be pious?

2. Why the only daughter of the Prophet died 6 month after the passing away of the prophet?

3. Why nobody knows where is she buried?

4. Why Abu Bakr (dies 2 yrs after the Prophet) and Umer (dies 8 years after the prophet) were buried next to the Prophet s.w.a?

5. Sunnis address all first generation Muslims as "Radi Allah". Quran calls Prophet Yasin and says "Salam un Al Ale Yasin". Shia use the word "Allehes Salam" when they address the Ale Yasin(Ale Yasin = children of Yasin). Why Sunnis differed?

6. Quran says to wipe your head and feet in Salat. Shis follow Quran, Sunni follow don't know who?

7. Every sura of Quran starts with BisMillah. Shia say Bismillah in salat for all sura, many Sunnis don't? Why?

8. Quran says to fast till the night starts? Sunnis break the fast 20 minutes before the night? Shia open the fast at night. Why?

9. Quran says that all prophets had their successors from among themselves, from their own families, pious same as themselves. Why the Sunni claimed successors of the last of the Prophet came from people who became Muslims in their 50s. Yeah go learn anything new in your 50 years of age and tell me if you could be good at it?

10. Prophet's wife Aisha did not wage wars on Abu Bakr, Umer, and Usman. Why she suddenly sprang into action and waged a very bloody war against Ali (a.s.)?

11. Why those who killed numerous Muslims throughout the life of the Prophet, waged wars after wars on Prophet, became Muslims in the last year of the Prophet's life and 30 years later were ruling all the Muslim lands? Why Sunnis consider these criminals absolute holy? Why Shia curse them from the bottom of their hearts?

12. Go to any Juma salat of Sunni masjid. Listen to the people they quote the Hadith of Prophet from? Who do they quote those Hadith from? Aisha and Abu Huraira. Aisha lived less than 10 months with the Prophet. Abu Huraira less than 2 years. Why don't they have any hadith coming from Ali (a.s.) who lived all his life with Prophet, 24 years to be exact? Why no hadith from Khadija (a.s.) who lived all the Prophet's youth with him. Why?

 

All those common sense questions would lead you to the right version of Islam. Another thing, believe me its all too easy to find the truth. Nothing is hidden or confusing. You just need to be honest with your research and look things from a human angle.

Edited by Irfani313

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again, companions of Prophet Muhammad s.a.w ! In your books Ali r.a cursed his companions but they are "all" shiatul Ali,  "all" Companions of imam Hussain r.a and Hassan r.a are shiatul Ali, or at least "majority" of them were correct, but as for companions of Prophet s.a.w "all" of them became apostates except few ! It shows you love Ali r.a more than Muhammad s.a.w 'MashaAllah', and the root direction of shiism to its point. 

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:salam:

Well, I think I can relate to this, a little, at the very least. For a born Muslim (Shi'i) my knowledge on my religion was very poor, for a long time. I guess there's this phase for many of us where we care too little due of a lack of information, other (wordly) influences and thus, lack of imaan. I am not sure when the first time was I was bothered by it. Though, I did know that I lacked knowledge especially, when we'd discuss religions in school (Islam, Sunni and Shi'a, one time, during a presentation, only briefly) and I'd, at most, be aware of basics and some more. So, what changed it for me? To be honest, I can't really pinpoint it.

It just happened one year, during Muharram. I've grown up with this, azadari and all, but I've never much understood the importance of that event. And all of a sudden, my interest was piqued. I started exploring, reading, watching - and Ashura just touched something deeper in me, now, as I understood the importance of what had occured and why it had happened. Even if there had been some doubts regarding faith in me, before, they would have vanished then because I thought, "This is Islam (faith). These (the martyrs of Karbala) are truly believers. And this (Imam Hussain's (a) love) is the ultimate love for Allah."

This was the driving and starting point for me. I started to look deeper into our beliefs, specifically the 14 infallibles: RasulAllah (s), his daughter (a) and the Imams (a) and their lives. As most Shi'a (I assume) I knew all their names, but that was that and it is a real shame. I wanted to understand the position of the Ahl-al-Bayt [a], the question of successorship and why a split occured, how the Imams (a) guided their followers (Imam Sajjad (a) through his supplications, for example). Their (the infallibles') struggles, their strength, their devotion, their teachings and, foremost, their love for Allah - it made me love, appreciate and admire them on a completely new level. I have seen people ask, "Is it mandatory within the Shi'a faith to love the Ahl-al-Bayt and why?" as if it was far beyond their understanding how someone could be obliged to love them (a). And my only thought to this is that, how can one not love them after getting to know them? You need to get to know them better, understand them and their teachings and their roles as guides - not only two or three of them, but all 14. Sadly, this is an area in which many Shi'a lack.

From there on, I just kept reading. SC had been a great help for me to broaden my knowledge- in my initial days, I used to browse through old threads a lot and find many interesting things. I started reading more books- biographies, compilations of hadiths, historical backgrounds (like, on the Occultation, or the event of Ghadeer or various battles during and after the prophet's (s) time) and so on. Currently, my interest has shifted towards our prophets before the last, may Allah's peace be upon them all. There's always more to get to know, knowledge is too much and we have too little time to gain it so, we should use that time as much as we can.

As for me, I feel as if Allah has guided me through his chosen ones (prophet Muhammad (s) and his Ahl-al-Bayt (a)), and I can't thankAllah enough (who can?) for this mercy.

If you don't mind me adding something to what you wrote above in regards to the sahaba: since even the Qur'an tells us clearly that amongst the Muslims (during the prophet's (s) time) there have been munafiqs (hypocrites) many of which the prophet (s) didn't know about, I don't see why it's so surprising. Just because someone did something good, at one point in their life, doesn't mean they did good till the end of their life, does it? And from what I gathered while looking into the history is that all this did not happen "all of a sudden", that is absurd. One needs to only look at Ghadir, the verses that were revealed during that time and RasulAllah's (s) slight apprehension regarding the reaction of people towards his announcement, are very telling that there had been tensions for some time within the ummah. And that are just very few examples. Fadak, Jamal, Siffin, Karbala, Saqifa... one could cite many things.

There's this quote from Ay. Khamenei on Karbala, I once read. It goes along the lines of: "One must wonder what went wrong in the Muslim ummah that, mere 50 years after the death of the prophet (s), such a tragedy could happen." Karbala did not come out of nowhere, Yazeed was not "a suddenly very bad caliph after a series of saints" and neither did the ummah as a whole fail the family of their prophet (s) so miserably after "having loved them so much since the beginning". One really should wonder...

And lol at the comment above mine. Poor knowledge. There are companions of the Imams who, obviously, deviated, as well (like that companion of Imam Kadhim (a) who didn't want to hand over khums to Imam Ridha (a) and claimed that the 7th Imam was al-Qaim), even wives (Joda, wife of Imam Hasan (a) or the first wife of Imam Taqi (a)) and children (Abdullah ibn Jafar, Jafar ibn Ali). One shouldn't speak where one lacks sufficient knowledge.

But, again, do your own research on all of this until you are satisfied. What I'd suggest to you is read (ask for recommendations if there is any specific area you want to have a look at) and ask questions without hesitation. You will find many knowledgeable users on this site, and many very helpful and nice brothers and sisters who'd love to help you, inshaAllah. May Allah guide you and each and everyone who is searching for truth.

Ma`asalama.

Edited by Noor al Batul

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Dear OP:

Read the post above from the dear brother "Reader". Again use common sense and basic human reasoning. Does this sound a reply coming from an individual of having a common sense? Examples like these and others similar to these exemplary quotes became the light of guidance for me to find the true Islam of Prophet Muhammad s.a.w.

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1 hour ago, Irfani313 said:

Dear OP:

Besides Quran, there is no 100% authentic book that Muslims have. Yes there are hadith books which do contain numerous authentic sayings of the Prophet s.a.w. but some of those are also made up to fulfill later political ambitions of the bad apples.

I would suggest start with basic reasoning to come to the truth, the normal common sense things such as:

1. Why would all sahaba be pious?

2. Why the only daughter of the Prophet died 6 month after the passing away of the prophet?

3. Why nobody knows where is she buried?

4. Why Abu Bakr (dies 2 yrs after the Prophet) and Umer (dies 8 years after the prophet) were buried next to the Prophet s.w.a?

5. Sunnis address all first generation Muslims as "Radi Allah". Quran calls Prophet Yasin and says "Salam un Al Ale Yasin". Shia use the word "Allehes Salam" when they address the Ale Yasin(Ale Yasin = children of Yasin). Why Sunnis differed?

6. Quran says to wipe your head and feet in Salat. Shis follow Quran, Sunni follow don't know who?

7. Every sura of Quran starts with BisMillah. Shia say Bismillah in salat for all sura, many Sunnis don't? Why?

8. Quran says to fast till the night starts? Sunnis break the fast 20 minutes before the night? Shia open the fast at night. Why?

9. Quran says that all prophets had their successors from among themselves, from their own families, pious same as themselves. Why the Sunni claimed successors of the last of the Prophet came from people who became Muslims in their 50s. Yeah go learn anything new in your 50 years of age and tell me if you could be good at it?

10. Prophet's wife Aisha did not wage wars on Abu Bakr, Umer, and Usman. Why she suddenly sprang into action and waged a very bloody war against Ali (a.s.)?

11. Why those who killed numerous Muslims throughout the life of the Prophet, waged wars after wars on Prophet, became Muslims in the last year of the Prophet's life and 30 years later were ruling all the Muslim lands? Why Sunnis consider these criminals absolute holy? Why Shia curse them from the bottom of their hearts?

12. Go to any Juma salat of Sunni masjid. Listen to the people they quote the Hadith of Prophet from? Who do they quote those Hadith from? Aisha and Abu Huraira. Aisha lived less than 10 months with the Prophet. Abu Huraira less than 2 years. Why don't they have any hadith coming from Ali (a.s.) who lived all his life with Prophet, 24 years to be exact? Why no hadith from Khadija (a.s.) who lived all the Prophet's youth with him. Why?

 

All those common sense questions would lead you to the right version of Islam. Another thing, believe me its all too easy to find the truth. Nothing is hidden or confusing. You just need to be honest with your research and look things from a human angle.

This is very interesting. If I understood correctly, did you say that Umar is buried next to the prophet? If that is the case, is his grave in Mecca too? 

I didn't know that Aisha lived with the prophet for only 10 months. Then how is she qualified to write hadith? Thank you brother for this informative post

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1 hour ago, Irfani313 said:

 Aisha and Abu Huraira. Aisha lived less than 10 months with the Prophet. Abu Huraira less than 2 years.

Are you sure about this? Aisha was married with the Prophet for 12 years how could she have lived only 10 months with him ? That's less than 1 month a year. If you have any proof give them please. (im shia btw). If you have proof in sunni book also. For abou Huraira you are right even though it's 3-4 year he lived with the Prophet (wich i agree is a ridiculous amount of time to give so much hadith compared to Imam Ali (as)

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40 minutes ago, em said:

This is very interesting. If I understood correctly, did you say that Umar is buried next to the prophet? If that is the case, is his grave in Mecca too? 

Actually in Madina. In the prophet's mosque, if you're a woman and want to get as close to the prophet as possible while praying, it would be a bit tricky if you don't know how to find it beforehand. Reason? There is a barrier so women can't get very close and we can't see the grave. When asking staff members where it is, they could point you at different directions and tell you Abu Bakr, Umar and the Prophet (S) is all behind the barrier, so just pray to Allah (swt) and don't do shirk (this is how they pinpoint shia women, we're only interested in where the prophet (S) lies :P)

Edited by EnterMessage

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4 hours ago, seekingthebeloved said:

:bismillah:

Salaam.

To give sackI have been brought up withdid.l Shia shiite.tbeliefs but recently, an encounter with another individual has led me to revisit these beliefs and its has made me realise, I actually don't know an awful lot about my own beliefs let alone the beliefs of others. 

I promised myself that I will look, discuss and seek to find that closest to the truth and to spot the discrepancies. I want to feel the peace that many believers do because they've found their path. But with little Muslim friends I have, my primary companion is the Internet. Since I've started researching into Shia'ism and Sunni'ism more, I feel I've become less practicing because I don't know what is right and wrong and this just pretty much had left me irritated with everything.

Has anyone else felt or encountered a scenario like this and how do you deal with it?

And please, no mean comments. 

Thank God I amnot the only way to feel this way. Well not me I had othErs sunnishia things but my sister did go thru what you did.lEt me ask her how she found answer cuz she and still stayed shiite.t

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btw Alsalam Aleikum OP,

This is actually something great and important for you!

It shows that now you want to be AWARE of your religion, you don't want to follow without reason. The prophet and ahlulbayt (a.s.) have many times spoken about the importance of understanding your religion. It will strengthen your faith, clear your head of doubts and anxiety, and make you in peace with yourself and Allah (swt).

You shouldn't just inherit your religion, this is wrong. In the Quran, we have numerous stories about different prophets and messengers who encounter people who they inform about Allah's message. But the people would say "we were born in our current religion, this is what our ancestors believed in so why would we change?" and the prophets and messengers would try to reason with them which failed because they didn't want reason, they wanted convenience. And so Allah (swt) made them perish in different ways (some even instantly, if I'm not mistaken).

It's very common in our time actually, scholars have discussed this and some say it's a phenomenon of our time, that youths more than ever, like suddenly standing up and questioning what they're doing, they educate themselves and delve deeper into their faith and religion, only to become stronger and more steadfast. I once heard it called spiritual awakening I think, that it's happening more than every now, due to various things like globalisation of both information about Islam, but also due to being targeted as Muslim. But perhaps the main reason is due to the still effect the revolution of Ayatollah Khomeini has had on the world, which is still impacting our lives until today.

 

I too went through something similar, and started questioning things, which is how I came across the stuff I explained earlier. It was more like @Noor al Batul's story. My parents took me to majalis during Muharram and I knew a bit about the general stuff of what happened (literally imam Hussain (a.s.) was on his way to (I didn't know where in Iraq he was going) but was stopped in what is now Karbala, fought and died. He knew he was going to die but brought his family with him.) That was pretty much it. I loved my imams and the prophet and Allah (swt), I never doubted about believing in them. But it was like when you as a kid learn to love your parents, you don't necessarily know why, you might not even know anything about them, yet you decide that you love them. That was my love of Ahlulbayt and the prophet, I was taught that they were like family!

The whole shia/sunni difference was to me, what my mom once told me: they pray 15mins before us. End of story.

It was in my late teenage years that I started to understand a bit more about Ahlulbayt. Just like Noor al Batul, it happened one night during Muharram, I still remember it was Ashura, the night they usually speak about Muslim ibn Aqeel. I remember I was sitting there, half of what the sheikh is saying goes over my head due to my lacking skills in understanding Arabic. Then I decided to pay more attention, and heard they were talking about someone called Muslim. I thought it was funny that a Muslim is called Muslim, so I kept hearing his story. It was the first time in my life that I ended up crying about someone in the entire tragedy of Karbala. I cried so much, and I hate crying in public, so just hid my face underneath my hijab and cried until it was over, then I thought to myself that my heart was broken for this man, Muslim ibn Aqeel. I felt so connected to this name, though the next thought was: but who is he?

And that's how I started my real journey towards Ahlulbayt (a.s.) and it's still ongoing.

I spent the following years debating and discussing and arguing with my parents so much, to the point where my dad and I couldn't be in the same room without almost hissing at each other lol. On one hand, they encouraged me to research more, question and analyse, on the other hand, unfortunately, they were the first ones to feel the heat of my frustration, criticism and questioning. Not because I knew better, not at all, but when you've just learnt something new which you think would invalidate something old you've learnt, as a teenager, further analysis was not in my consideration, I had to revolt and I had to revolt instantly :P

I've calmed down since, a bit more respectful, a bit wiser, a bit more humble.The journey is still on, oh it is more on than ever. But you'll reach a point where there is no way back. I mean, you can change perspective about certain things and facts etc, but then there are the things which you root yourself with, because any other option you hear sounds irrational, illogical, sometimes plain bizarre, in comparison to what you know. Even if you want to find another option, if only to atleast have a valid challenge when comparing them.

I wish you all the best in your journey to finding the truth, and hope it will be rewarding inshaAllah. Remember that in the end you would want to come closer to Allah (swt). No sect, way of life, path, or knowledge in the world would matter if it's not taking you closer to Allah (swt).

wsalam

Edited by EnterMessage

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Dear All (I humbly request you to please read till the end)

I wrote the statement that "Aisha lived with the Prophet only for 10 months" only to verify if some of you are indeed Shia (the true momineen) in practice.

Thanks to Allah swt that we have those of you Shia on SC who even though know the crimes of these individuals still do not accept a statement without questioning it. This is the true tafseer of one of the signs of momineen in Quran, "that they do not leave justice - adl, even when they deal with their opponents". May Allah swt increase your faith in true Islam for being such a good Shia of your Prophet and Imams.

Now the qualification of that 10 months of Aisha living with the Prophet. Kindly pay attention to the math:

1. Prophet s.a.w. lived 13 years in Makkah. There he was only married to Sayida Khadija a.s. and did not take any other wife. When Khadija a.s. and Abu Talib a.s. passed away, Allah swt ordered the prophet to leave Makkah since his main supporters were not there to protect him anymore. (this is another question brother OP must ponder on, why Sunnis rant Aisha all the time, and why ignore Khadija a.s. when Allah swt himself calls her Prophet's core support in Makkah).

2. Prophet lived in Madina for 10 years till the time he passed away and was buried in the now green domed mosque.

3. In those 10 years, Prophet s.a.w married more than 9 ladies including Aisha.

4. Prophet s.a.w. was Just - Aadil more than adl itself. Any so called muslim who questions the Adl of the Prophet is not a Muslim.

5. Prophet s.a.w. implemented the same Adl in his personal life as he did in his public life. Since Prophet was known to spend one night with each wife, he collectively could not spend more than 1 year of his nights with Aisha. Remember this is only nights,not the days. Only the 6-8 hours at home.

6. On top of this, enemies waged more than 99 wars on the Prophet s.a.w in his 10 years in the city of Madina where except for one battle, all were fought outside of Madina. Prophet only used to take one wife for each of these battles. Make sure you subtract those days that Prophet was out and about in the desert defending the religion of Allah swt form the wives time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_expeditions_of_Muhammad

7. Prophet s.a.w. made two known travels to the holy city of Makkah while prophet was living in Madina, one in which the Hajj was aborted which culminated in the event of Hudaybia and the other, his Hajj a year before his death after which the event of Ghadeer happened. Subtract those times from the time of Aisha and other wives too.

So all in all, when I wrote 10 months, it was still way too generous, because between sleeping, traveling, dividing equal times between 9+ wives, between Hajj trip, dawa trips, long salat times so much so that Allah swt tells the prophet in Quran to reduce his nafl salat, prophet's stays in mosque and doing the affairs of the governance, more than 90 battles that he had to fight, prophet's aitekaf in Ramadhan; Prophet s.a.w. could not have spent more than 4 or maximum 5 months with each wife in his 10 years in Madina including Aisha.

Now equate this with the time Prophet s.a.w. stayed with Imam Ali a.s, Sadyidda Fatima a.s., Hasnain a.s. and you wonder how come Shia quote hadith mostly from Ahlulbayt and Sunnis quote from Aisha. May Allah swt curse the liars specially those who made the lies branded with Prophet's name.  

 

 

 

Edited by Irfani313

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Dear Brother OP:

There are so many gaps in the Sunni belief that every other sentence you read or write about Islam, you end up finding the flaws in Sunnis.

As I wrote above, ask any random Sunni about Abu Talib a.s., the father of Imam Ali, Jaffar Tayyar ,and Aqeel. Sunnis call Abu Talib a.s. kafir, yes they call this person kafir who recited the marriage of Prophet with Khadija a.s. and protected the Prophet s.a.w. life at the expense of his own sons. So much so that when Prophet s.a.w. came under the protection of his uncle Abu Talib a.s., Allah swt said in Quran that it was HE himself who protected the prophet when he was orphan. And Sunnis have the audacity to call this person Kafir. 

No but dare you say Yazeed was Kafir, or Hinda was Kafir, or Abu Sufyan the wager of at least 10 of those battles on the prophet was kafir, and the they will come slashing your neck off.

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3 minutes ago, Irfani313 said:

There are so many gaps in the Sunni belief that every other sentence you read or write about Islam, you end up finding the flaws in Sunnis.

Salam aleikum Irfani313,

I understand your points, but I disagree that this is the right approach to finding your path. Sure, it will be part of understanding the differences, but pointing out Sunnimuslims' faults does not mean shiamuslims are right. Instead of focusing on what is wrong in sunni Islam, I'd suggest the OP to focus on what is right and wrong in ShiaIslam.

wsalam.

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24 minutes ago, Irfani313 said:

3. In those 10 years, Prophet s.a.w married more than 9 ladies including Aisha.

4. Prophet s.a.w. was Just - Aadil more than adl itself. Any so called muslim who questions the Adl of the Prophet is not a Muslim.

Thanks for the explanation btw!
Don't take this the wrong way but can you please point me to a proper source that states that the prophet (S) was married to 9 ladies simultaneously? This is to better understand the situation. Or am I missing part of the logic now?

 

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Dear Sister EnterM:

Since we are talking about Aisha, prophet supposedly married her at certain age but she moved in with the Prophet three years after the marriage. This is from Sunni sources which any common sense human being would take it with a grain of salt. That leaves the 6-7 years in which prophet had to divide time. I don't know when other wives came into Prophet's life.

 

 

 

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yo, @seekingthebeloved check this out

Imam Hasan al-`Askari [a] was in the prison of the Caliph al-Muhtadi. He said to a fellow inmate, "This tyrant wishes to play with Allah’s decree, and so Allah has cut his life and given it (i.e. the monarchy) to the one rising after him. I do not have a son, but I will be granted a son."

In the following morning, the Turks had attacked al-Muhtadi and killed him, and al-Mu`tamid had taken his place. The narrator said, "Allah had saved us [from him]."

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15 hours ago, EnterMessage said:

Salam aleikum Irfani313,

I understand your points, but I disagree that this is the right approach to finding your path. Sure, it will be part of understanding the differences, but pointing out Sunnimuslims' faults does not mean shiamuslims are right. Instead of focusing on what is wrong in sunni Islam, I'd suggest the OP to focus on what is right and wrong in ShiaIslam.

wsalam.

Wa alaikum as Salam dear EnterMessage:

If you meant to find wrongs in the Shia poeple, then by all means do point out, but not here, create another thread so we all could discuss this.

If you meant to find faults in the Shia Islam, then you are not entitled to this Islam, in other words if you think you could choose some that you think is good about Shia Islam and reject some that you think are supposed wrongs of Shia Islam, then you have not understood your faith and need to revert to the Shia Islam after through research.

There is a hadith which goes like, "don't inherit your religion, instead learn your religion".

The ayat that was revealed in Quran immediately after Prophet s.a.w. declared that Imam Ali a.s. is the leader of all Muslims (re: the event of Ghadeer), Allah swt declared that today the religion of Islam is completed and that this is the religion with which Allah swt is pleased and agrees with. To me this is the Shia Islam that Allah swt is pleased with and I do not find any faults with this Islam. 

Anyway let's don't derail OP's topic and start a new one if you like.

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On 1/23/2016 at 1:39 AM, Irfani313 said:

Dear Sister EnterM:

Since we are talking about Aisha, prophet supposedly married her at certain age but she moved in with the Prophet three years after the marriage. This is from Sunni sources which any common sense human being would take it with a grain of salt. That leaves the 6-7 years in which prophet had to divide time. I don't know when other wives came into Prophet's life.

Alsalam alaykum wa rahmatullah sister Irafi313,

I like how you've analysed it, but this alone is not enough to be a valid source. For instance, why wouldn't she be able to go on dawa trips with the prophet(S), especially since she was young and healthy and had no kids that would tie her to one place?

You might very well be correct here, what you say makes sense indeed. InshaAllah I'll plan in to read about this matter in the future so I better understand your reasoning (tbh not that it really matters if she was with the prophet 10 months or 10 years, it's her actions that shia muslims hold against her, not how long she was actually with the prophet. But inshaAllah out of curiosity I might look into it one day.Good trivia though!)

9 hours ago, Irfani313 said:

If you meant to find wrongs in the Shia poeple, then by all means do point out, but not here, create another thread so we all could discuss this.

If you meant to find faults in the Shia Islam, then you are not entitled to this Islam, in other words if you think you could choose some that you think is good about Shia Islam and reject some that you think are supposed wrongs of Shia Islam, then you have not understood your faith and need to revert to the Shia Islam after through research.

Well this is not about me now is it? This is about the OP finding his path. As he stated: " Since I've started researching into Shia'ism and Sunni'ism more, I feel I've become less practicing because I don't know what is right and wrong and this just pretty much had left me irritated with everything. "
And as I stated earlier, pointing out everything wrong with other sects will still not make you correct, that not why we are shiamuslims. Instead he should start with what's right and wrong with shia islam. Can he find any rights? And wrongs? What is it that he's not convinced about when it comes to shia islamic concepts? Is it because he thinks they're wrong or simply because he doesn't know enough?

Being entitled to this Islam is something between me and Allah swt and those who Allah swt have blessed with the knowledge of the unseen. Not a matter to be decided by people on an online forum. Anyway, once again, this is about the OP finding his path, not me. I have already chosen :)

9 hours ago, Irfani313 said:

There is a hadith which goes like, "don't inherit your religion, instead learn your religion"

In my first post in this thread, I actually refer to this hadith (the very beginning of the second paragraph). But because I couldn't find a reliable source to refer to, I refrained from quoting it. But yeah I agree on this point, which is why I got back to my original suggestion: that the OP would start learning about his religion, which he pointed out is shia islam, and see if he could indeed find any faults with it.

Hope that made clearer what my point of view is and who it is regarding.

Thanks w salam

Edited by EnterMessage

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On 1/22/2016 at 10:52 PM, seekingthebeloved said:

:bismillah:

Salaam.

To give some background, I have been brought up with Shia beliefs but recently, an encounter with another individual has led me to revisit these beliefs and its has made me realise, I actually don't know an awful lot about my own beliefs let alone the beliefs of others. 

I promised myself that I will look, discuss and seek to find that closest to the truth and to spot the discrepancies. I want to feel the peace that many believers do because they've found their path. But with little Muslim friends I have, my primary companion is the Internet. Since I've started researching into Shia'ism and Sunni'ism more, I feel I've become less practicing because I don't know what is right and wrong and this just pretty much had left me irritated with everything.

Has anyone else felt or encountered a scenario like this and how do you deal with it?

And please, no mean comments. 

salaams bro..

we all go through such things in our life, and i'll hopefully be able to give you a perspective different from most people. You are not here to verify history... of course we should do all the research to satisfy our minds and reach a stage of surety, but you may never be able to reach a 100% place of certainty that what you are reading in the history books is complete and totally accurate... history is being inherited through fallible human beings, and you'll be able to find errors on both sunni and shia side. So how does one go about resolving this?

Your purpose in life is to purify yourself, to gain nearness to Allah swt... whether you are sunni or shia, the historical matters should not disturb your practice and sincerity towards Allah swt... we all know what is generally right and wrong, and you can continue to maintain purity while your research these matters.

To have perfect practice we have to find the best role models and examples. I challenge anyone to find me better role models than the Ahlulbayt from any history, any religion... you really will not be able to. Use this benchmark and you'll be fine. Even if one were to accept the sunni side of the story, you still will not find better role models after the Prophet other than Ahlulbayt.

My personal advice, stop stressing over historical issues, focus on purity, and Allah will guide you. The sunni shia debate only distracts from this purpose as you're already finding.

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On 24 January 2016 at 7:21 AM, khamosh21 said:

salaams bro..

we all go through such things in our life, and i'll hopefully be able to give you a perspective different from most people. You are not here to verify history... of course we should do all the research to satisfy our minds and reach a stage of surety, but you may never be able to reach a 100% place of certainty that what you are reading in the history books is complete and totally accurate... history is being inherited through fallible human beings, and you'll be able to find errors on both sunni and shia side. So how does one go about resolving this?

Your purpose in life is to purify yourself, to gain nearness to Allah swt... whether you are sunni or shia, the historical matters should not disturb your practice and sincerity towards Allah swt... we all know what is generally right and wrong, and you can continue to maintain purity while your research these matters.

To have perfect practice we have to find the best role models and examples. I challenge anyone to find me better role models than the Ahlulbayt from any history, any religion... you really will not be able to. Use this benchmark and you'll be fine. Even if one were to accept the sunni side of the story, you still will not find better role models after the Prophet other than Ahlulbayt.

My personal advice, stop stressing over historical issues, focus on purity, and Allah will guide you. The sunni shia debate only distracts from this purpose as you're already finding.

W'Salaams, I guess you have a point about the historical analysis as it is inherently flawed but I have also heard that if I don't believe in some of the narratives which are told today that went on in history i.e. Hz Fatima (sa) being oppressed to the extent where her unborn baby was killed then a part of my belief system is flawed. Or even not praying with a turba for example. 

I don't disagree with you saying we all know what is generally right and wrong but where does one go to clarify these? I look at the shia side and they say one thing, I look on the sunni thing and they say another thing, and with hadiths not being entirely accurate, where does one draw the line between truth and falsehood? Where do you go? Which scholar do you seek? And from which school of thought?

Also, thank you all for taking the time out to respond!

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10 minutes ago, seekingthebeloved said:

I have also heard that if I don't believe in some of the narratives which are told today that went on in history i.e. Hz Fatima (sa) being oppressed to the extent where her unborn baby was killed then a part of my belief system is flawed. Or even not praying with a turba for example.

from my understanding you can prostrate on anything as long as its clean, and cannot be eaten

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6 minutes ago, seekingthebeloved said:

Do you know the reasoning behind why you can't prostrate on material that can be worn (sorry, curious)?

Sorry, I dont know the reason

though, I did ask my teacher but he didn't give me an answer I was satisfied with

(he said because prophet Muhammad pbuh said so in a reliable hadith)

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On 2/1/2016 at 5:46 PM, seekingthebeloved said:

W'Salaams, I guess you have a point about the historical analysis as it is inherently flawed but I have also heard that if I don't believe in some of the narratives which are told today that went on in history i.e. Hz Fatima (sa) being oppressed to the extent where her unborn baby was killed then a part of my belief system is flawed. Or even not praying with a turba for example. 

I don't disagree with you saying we all know what is generally right and wrong but where does one go to clarify these? I look at the shia side and they say one thing, I look on the sunni thing and they say another thing, and with hadiths not being entirely accurate, where does one draw the line between truth and falsehood? Where do you go? Which scholar do you seek? And from which school of thought?

Also, thank you all for taking the time out to respond!

Sorry for late response... Here are some things I keep in mind:

1. The Truth, Marifat, Allah, Noor, Home, your Purpose, what you want to call it... these things can't be found in any books or by any scholar... ultimately we are all trying to find Direct Knowledge, Knowledge that enters the Heart... that which brings peace to your heart. All knowledge that we are seeking, that is necessary to reach Allah is within us... once we begin to purify our heart things become easier from there.

2. Allah swt is the Guide and He Guides who wishes to Guide. You have to do your best to become a recipient of His Guidance... you have to seek it and ask for it all the time. Always pray to Allah for Guidance... no matter how many books you read or which scholar you meet, if He doesn't want you to be Guided then nothing will help you. For this you must have sincerity in your action. If you are sincerely trying to reach Him and find Him, then He guarantees to help you.

Now you may might face issues where things are not clear. Let's take your example of Turba.. this doesn't fall in the category of right or wrong, it should not effect you maintaining purity. so you are unsure about it... in reality you can find plenty of hadith in sunni books which attest to the Prophet using sand. We actually now have scientific reasoning for it as well, it helps ground energy in your body just like the earth does to electricity.

This is besides the point though... the main thing is that you should be praying, turba or no turba... your heart should be praying and submitting to Allah. If you are sincerely putting your head on the ground, and submitting your entire being to Allah, this is what's critical. Not the turba or the whether your hands are closed or open. These things matter, but the form should not take priority over the essence and meaning of prayer.

You just have to pray for God to guide you and then He'll find the scholars and everything you need to be Guided.

TLDR: Historical differences should not effect your ability to purify your nafs and heart.

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On February 1, 2016 at 7:01 PM, seekingthebeloved said:

Do you know the reasoning behind why you can't prostrate on material that can be worn (sorry, curious)?

:salam:

Prostrating on the earth means we are made from earth/ clay.

When we sit it means we are brought out from earth and given life.

When we prostrate again it means we will return back to the earth when we die.

When we sit back again it means we will be ressurected after death.

******

Hence it has to be on a material made from earth.

prostrating on rugs or silk or non earthly material means you are created from that source.

There is a hadith from the prophet which says everything will go back to its original form.

Hope this helps.

On February 1, 2016 at 7:14 PM, HumanForLife said:

Sorry, I dont know the reason

though, I did ask my teacher but he didn't give me an answer I was satisfied with

(he said because prophet Muhammad pbuh said so in a reliable hadith)

 

Wasalam

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