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In the Name of God بسم الله
Haydar Husayn

So I guess I'm a Wahhabi...

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1 hour ago, Haydar Husayn said:

 

Of course, it would be much better to have videos with more unbiased presentation, but unfortunately only the Wahhabis take the time to make them, as apparently no Shias think this stuff is worth exposing.

Muslim sects learned to expose mistakes of each others and that makes enemies of Islam easy hand on all sects, they need not to research. All they need is to promote the workouts already created by each sects for others.

we are enemy of our self.

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Salam, 

Christians often use the saying that you need the Spirit to understand the Bible.

I believe that this creates a problem as the din becomes a subjective thing instead of objective and if that is the case a hierarchy will appear where blind following is the norm. 

I believe the Quran should be the judge between the muslims. It is revealed in clear Arabic which means that it is clear and plain.

There is ofcourse an apparent meaning and a hidden meaning but there are basic fundamentals which we can never leave and can never change.

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5 minutes ago, أبو فاطمة المحمدي said:

There is difference between seeking help and making du'a - and you certainly know what I am saying. When you ask ShiaChat members about the authenticity or source of a particular hadith, is that the kind of request you make to Allah in your du'as? By contrast, if you have a tough exam, would you call upon ShiaChat members to make you pass?

Du'a is when you worship a being and ask them in the spirit of worship. If I ask Shia members to pray for me, am I doing Du'a to Shiachat members? No. Yet if we ask Ahlulbayt to do Du'a for us, automatically it's Du'a to Ahlulbayt? I see double standards. 

Also the help of Ahlulbayt is not the type in which they decide the matter for you, Allah [swt] decides. Rather it's seeking their help to the capacity they been allowed to help through the power they been given. That is not to say they been allowed to reckon us. That is to say, they are allowed to help by the permission of Allah.

 

 

 

 

Edited by StrugglingForTheLight

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2 minutes ago, StrugglingForTheLight said:

Du'a is when you worship a being and ask them in the spirit of worship. If I ask Shia members to pray for me, am I doing Du'a to Shiachat members? No. Yet if we ask Ahlulbayt to do Du'a for us, automatically it's Du'a to Ahlulbayt? I see double standards. 

 

 

Have you watched the video? He isn't talking about 'asking someone to do dua for them', he is talking about asking them directly.

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2 minutes ago, StrugglingForTheLight said:

Du'a is when you worship a being and ask them in the spirit of worship. If I ask Shia members to pray for me, am I doing Du'a to Shiachat members? No. Yet if we ask Ahlulbayt to do Du'a for us, automatically it's Du'a to Ahlulbayt? I see double standards. 

Again, I am sure you know perfectly the difference between du'a and asking for help. This is because you practise that difference most of the time. Let me ask you this. If you want long life, would you come to ShiaChat and ask its members to grant you long life? By contrast, if you need to find out about the chain of a hadith, would you supplicate to Allah to do the takhrij for you? These are very simple and straightforward matters, for Allah's sake!

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Salam, 

Brother I do have a christian background and in the case of intercession I notice things that were the same in christianity. It were actually the points that made the diffirence between Islam and christianity. 

I am afraid to ask any other than Allah.

As I always tell christians that I prefer to pray and seek help from Him who Jesus a.s. asked help from, I will seek help from Him who the Ahl al-Bayt a.s. prays to and seek help from.

Edited by Skanderbeg

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1 minute ago, simple-muslim said:

Salaam, so I'm sunni. Am I to understand that this is not the normative belief of the 12er shia?

It has NO basis in the Qur'an or the authentic teachings of the Ahl al-Bayt, 'alaihim al-salam. BUT, you do find some "Shi'ah" who do what they like.

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1 minute ago, Haydar Husayn said:

Have you watched the video? He isn't talking about 'asking someone to do dua for them', he is talking about asking them directly.

 

1 minute ago, أبو فاطمة المحمدي said:

Again, I am sure you know perfectly the difference between du'a and asking for help. This is because you practise that difference most of the time. Let me ask you this. If you want long life, would you come to ShiaChat and ask its members to grant you long life? By contrast, if you need to find out about the chain of a hadith, would you supplicate to Allah to do the takhrij for you? These are very simple and straightforward matters, for Allah's sake!

This is what I'm saying. The type we ask of help from Ahlulbayt is not the type we ask from Allah [swt]. It's about their Imammate and Guiding role, as well, as their spiritual help if we allow our souls to receive that help and embrace that help. 

There is a type ofcourse that only Allah can help, like granting blessings to oru souls, then there is another type in which they attempt to lend us a helping hand and show the way.

I don't see why we can't ask Ahlulbayt for roles they been designated to have.

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3 minutes ago, StrugglingForTheLight said:

 

This is what I'm saying. The type we ask of help from Ahlulbayt is not the type we ask from Allah [swt]. It's about their Imammate and Guiding role, as well, as their spiritual help if we allow our souls to receive that help and embrace that help. 

There is a type ofcourse that only Allah can help, like granting blessings to oru souls, then there is another type in which they attempt to lend us a helping hand and show the way.

I don't see why we can't ask Ahlulbayt for roles they been designated to have.

You only ask Allah by the "right of Muhammad and the family of Muhammad." That is the only part that has basis in the teachings of the Ahl al-Bayt.

Edited by أبو فاطمة المحمدي

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1 minute ago, simple-muslim said:

Salaam, so I'm sunni. Am I to understand that this is not the normative belief of the 12er shia?

I'm not sure how to answer that. I wish I could, but I don't know how.

The best answer I can give is that it's not a requirement to be Shia, or something that naturally flows from Shia beliefs. You won't find such statements in the works of classical Shia scholars (although there have always been extremist tendencies among the Shia), but these are beliefs that are fairly widespread, especially in Muslim countries. It's probably less so in the West, which is why you will find many Shias who would flat-out deny that such beliefs even exist among mainstream scholars.

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9 minutes ago, Skanderbeg said:

Salam, 

Brother I do have a christian background and in the case of intercession I notice things that were the same in christianity. It were actually the points that made the diffirence between Islam and christianity. 

I am afraid to ask any other than Allah.

As I always tell christians that I prefer to pray and seek help from Him who Jesus a.s. asked help from, I will seek help from Him who the Ahl al-Bayt a.s. prays to and seek help from.

Yeah, this is the irony. Most Christians who convert to Islam mention that they like the direct connection with God that Islam provides (apart from some Catholics who liked the whole 'saint-worship' aspect of their faith). Meanwhile, you have Shias who want to run away from that part of Islam, and will claim that we are't worthy of asking anything of Allah.

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Salam, 

I believe that Twelver Islam preserved a fundamental belief of Islam and that without that belief someone is missing a part of Islam BUT that it is also balancing between Ghuluw and Common sense which depends on the individual follower, his region and the way he gathers knowledge.

So while it puts the Ahl al-Bayt a.s. in its right place the satan uses that to try the concept of Ghuluw.

But to condemn ghuluw it doesn't mean I condemn the Ahl al-Bayt a.s. and their divine position as guides in Islam.

I'm still not a Wahhabi! :clap:

Edited by Skanderbeg

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:salam:

 

I think this belief is more deeply rooted than we suspect. Imamzadeh in Iran for example helped develop this belief that we Muslims can adress others than Allah (swt) for our needs. An Iranian brother whom I met in Shiraz and who showed the best akhlaq and praised Allah in each of his steps and moves told me I could ask anything from Shah Sheragh because he heard all our needs.

Just popular belief I guess, but this becomes a real problem when preached from the pulpit.

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5 minutes ago, Haydar Husayn said:

I'm not sure how to answer that. I wish I could, but I don't know how.

The best answer I can give is that it's not a requirement to be Shia, or something that naturally flows from Shia beliefs. You won't find such statements in the works of classical Shia scholars (although there have always been extremist tendencies among the Shia), but these are beliefs that are fairly widespread, especially in Muslim countries. It's probably less so in the West, which is why you will find many Shias who would flat-out deny that such beliefs even exist among mainstream scholars.

Really best answer I found on this thread. Most of us may have had some studies in shia Islam and we know much about Islam yet there are some points we are not sure about. best approach is what you made here brother. Not to deny what ever we could not find corresponding to our knowledge. Let's consider possibility for things that great scholars who for sure have had vast studies over Islamic stuff verified, however we are not forced to practice it as you said they are not that of requirements to be a Shia.

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