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In the Name of God بسم الله

Music allowing marjas?

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celestial

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Salam Alaykum

First Music is to be divided into two groups: 

1. one that ecstasizes (:brings ecstasy) general listeners and is suitable for gatherings of amusement and vanity. 

2. one that doesn't bring ecstasy and doesn't attract sexual desires( which is not suitable for carouse gatherings).

The first group is forbidden according to all marja's.

but the second group is forbidden only by Ayt. Saafi. 

Here is their verdicts in detail:

Quote

Hazrat Grand Ayatollah Khamenei:

Any type of mutrib music which befits carouse gatherings is haram .

 

Hazrat Grand Ayatollah Fazel Lankarani:

Any type of mutrib music which befits carouse gatherings is haram. In any other case then there is no problem, and the place from which it is broadcasted does not affect the ruling.

 

Hazrat Grand Ayatollah Behjat:

If music is mutrib then hearing and buying or selling it is haram.

 

Hazrat Grand Ayatollah Safi Gulpaygani:

That which the common culture recognizes as music is haram, and listening, composing, teaching, learning, and selling musical instruments is also haram.

 

Hazrat Grand Ayatollah Makarim Shirazi:

Any melodies or songs which befit libidinous pleasure and corruption are haram, and anything other than that is halal. This is distinguished by referring to the public common culture.

 

Hazrat Grand Ayatollah Tabrizi:

Listening to music which befits gatherings of revelry is not permissible. It is also not permissible to make, teach, buy or sell frivolous musical instruments.

 

Hazrat Grand Ayatollah Sistani:

If music does not befit frivolous gatherings, then it is not haram. Therefore, listening to songs and mutrib music which befits frivolous gatherings is haram.

Distinguishing whether or not a specific music such as rap music is a type of instance or applicability of haram or halal, is the responsibility of each person. Because, any individuals that have a even a concise understanding of music can differentiate between music that is mutrib and befits frivolous gatherings and music that is not like that. Therefore, even if revolutionary or war songs are mutrib and befit frivolous gathering then listening to that type of music will also be haram.

Rap music is not exempt from this rule, and if it were to fall under the category of mutrib and befitting carouse gatherings then it also would be haram.

 

www.islamquest.net

 

Edited by mostafaa
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What about hadiths in here?

 

http://www.al-islam.org/greater-sins-volume-1-ayatullah-sayyid-abdul-husayn-dastghaib-shirazi/fifteenth-greater-sin-music

 

How can marjas allow music when those hadiths don't differ among music and deem it haram completely? I just can't get it.

 

I would have been really happy if i could able to continue making music without worrying about sinning. However, every art form i enjoy seems like haram, painting (living creatures) & music, etc...

Edited by celestial
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2 hours ago, celestial said:

How can marjas allow music when those hadiths don't differ among music and deem it haram completely? I just can't get it.

I am not going to support any Marja regarding his fatwas that may seem relevant to Ahadith or may not, the only thing I know is that this is where Ijtihad makes sense. What a marja does is to derive the Islamic laws on the basis of the Quran & Sunnah. when we refer to Ahadith there are plenty of Ahadith pertaining to a particular topic. but to verify all ahadith and evaluate their implications etc you need to be well educated in Islamic studies.

Make sure that every Marja has observed all Ahadith before he gives his fatwa on that. yet there might be difference among the Maraji.

The same goes with doctors, you may have a certain illness and go to different doctors and every one prescribes a list of medicines based on his thought.

 

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1 hour ago, John Al-Ameli said:

Music or songs by itself isnt haram to most Marja´s. Its the content of the Music or the Song that makes it Haram.

I find it difficult to square that with the following:

Quote

Answer: Forbidden music is the music that is suitable for entertainment and amusement gatherings, even if it does not arouse sexual temptations. Permissible music is the music that is not suitable for such gatherings, even if it does not soothe the nerves like the martial music and that played at funerals.

http://www.sistani.org/english/book/46/2072/

What's very interesting is this advice about content:

Quote

In this prohibition, we should include the recitation of the Holy Qur’ãn, supplications (du‘ãs), and songs of praise of Ahlul Bayt (a.s.) uttered to the accompaniment of those tunes [that are used by the entertainers].

http://www.sistani.org/english/book/46/2072/

 

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1 minute ago, Haji 2003 said:

I find it difficult to square that with the following:

Really. So if I listen to a revolutionary song. Its Haram? If I listen to a patriotic songs its Haram?

If I listen to Beethoven, its Haram? If I listen to ummm Yanni, its haram?

Lets stay realistic here

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2 minutes ago, John Al-Ameli said:

Really. So if I listen to a revolutionary song. Its Haram? If I listen to a patriotic songs its Haram?

If I listen to Beethoven, its Haram? If I listen to ummm Yanni, its haram?

Lets stay realistic here

Your previous statement was making an inference about most marja's. I pointed out that the statements issued by one of the more widely followed mar'jas appeared to contradict what you are saying. It's not about content.

Using the Sistani formula, my assessment is that yes, Beethoven is haram. Patriotic songs are also haram if they are also listened to for entertainment. 

You now bring up the issue of being realistic. The Sistani comments on music make no reference to 'realistic', so I can't comment any further.

 

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4 minutes ago, Haji 2003 said:

Your previous statement was making an inference about most marja's. I pointed out that the statements issued by one of the more widely followed mar'jas appeared to contradict what you are saying. It's not about content.

Using the Sistani formula, my assessment is that yes, Beethoven is haram. Patriotic songs are also haram if they are also listened to for entertainment. 

You now bring up the issue of being realistic. The Sistani comments on music make no reference to 'realistic', so I can't comment any further.

 

"Entertainment", and what is the definition of Islamic definition of Entertainment?

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5 hours ago, John Al-Ameli said:

Music or songs by itself isnt haram to most Marja´s. Its the content of the Music or the Song that makes it Haram.

I believe this to be correct, the music area is abit vague in Islam and requires you to think and choose, one song may be haram to one person but not to another, as long as it dosent promote any filth or an inkling to do haram whats the issue? I'd say dont cut out all your creative passions because of a ruling which isnt too clear in itself, i think the beauty of it is Allah kept it in a grey area so it can be altered to each of us as we all have different tastes and you are the best judge of what the music is doing to you.

 

 

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23 minutes ago, The Batman said:

I believe some people just want the easier path in life.

I believe some people dont really know what Islam is in life, and that is why, when they stop being religious, they go to extreme measures. Because they used to be robots in traditions and religion, that never thought a bit. But thought, if they made it harder on themselves that they are more religious. And what do you know, a couple of years later, the ones who you claimed wanted the "easy path in life" continue their religious duty, while you would have failed, BIG TIME.

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31 minutes ago, The Batman said:

I believe some people just want the easier path in life.

Ofcourse people want life to be as easy as possible. If life can be easy AND islamic, great!

Anyway, there is no point in being Muslim if your aim in life is to inflict suffering on yourself with 24/7 jihad nafs and completely ignoring simple (yet Islamically permissible) pleasures in life. Allah never told you to suffer in this world or else.

Moving on...

In addition to what Marjas may say about music, as long as the music does not influence you or those around you to perform anti-islamic acts, and as long as the music does not have a destructive effect on you or those around you, then logically I (personally) see no problem with it.

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2 hours ago, John Al-Ameli said:

I believe some people dont really know what Islam is in life, and that is why, when they stop being religious, they go to extreme measures. Because they used to be robots in traditions and religion, that never thought a bit. But thought, if they made it harder on themselves that they are more religious. And what do you know, a couple of years later, the ones who you claimed wanted the "easy path in life" continue their religious duty, while you would have failed, BIG TIME.

The point was some people choose who to follow in Fiqh just because they have easy rulings, which is batil.

So you never even understood my comment, yet you're shouting. Relax.

1 hour ago, notme said:

Islam is the easy path.  

Never said it was hard. Islam is clear. Refer to the comment above.

1 hour ago, ServantOfTheOne said:

Ofcourse people want life to be as easy as possible. If life can be easy AND islamic, great!

Anyway, there is no point in being Muslim if your aim in life is to inflict suffering on yourself with 24/7 jihad nafs and completely ignoring simple (yet Islamically permissible) pleasures in life. Allah never told you to suffer in this world or else.

Moving on...

In addition to what Marjas may say about music, as long as the music does not influence you or those around you to perform anti-islamic acts, and as long as the music does not have a destructive effect on you or those around you, then logically I (personally) see no problem with it.

No doubt. Those who sit around all day doing dhikr yet they abandon having fun, those people are extremists. This is not Islam, this is extreme worship which is not good. And we have narrations against this, from both the Sunnis and Shi'a.

As for the second half of your comment, this is incorrect. Because this is your personal opinion, and your personal opinion, just like mine, does not matter in Fiqh, because both of us have not reached a level where we can issue fatwa(s).

The scholars differed on the matter of music, some have issued harsher rulings upon it. I'm not saying the harsher ruling is correct, I am saying that it's a matter which is differed upon by the Fuqaha.

So for example, based on the fatwa of Sayyed al-Sistani, the majority of mainstream music nowadays would be haram. And if a song is created even about good things (like Islam), but it sounds like what most mainstream music sounds like, than as per Sayyed al-Sistani it is haram to listen to.

Edited by The Batman
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3 minutes ago, The Batman said:

No doubt. Those who sit around all day doing dhikr yet they abandon having fun, those people are extremists. This is not Islam, this is extreme worship which is not good. And we have narrations against this, from both the Sunnis and Shi'a.

As for the second half of your comment, this is incorrect. Because this is your personal opinion, and your personal opinion, just like mine, does not matter in Fiqh, because both of us have not reached a level where we can issue fatwa(s).

The scholars differed on the matter of music, some have issued harsher rulings upon it. I'm not saying the harsher ruling is correct, I am saying that it's a matter which is differed upon by the Fuqaha.

So for example, based on the fatwa of Sayyed al-Sistani, the majority of mainstream music nowadays would be haram, even if it has lyrics about Islam, the Prophet, etc...

 

Salam @The Batman

Appreciate your reply. You are right, the second half of my comment is my personal opinion as was mentioned in brackets. Sorry if I sounded a bit more assertive than I meant to. Also, I do agree with what you said. Most music of today like having a tabla with lyrics about the Prophet or Ahlulbayt (PBUThem) is a bit weird and would not like to listen to them purely out of precaution. I have heard some that also make me feel really uneasy!

 

As a separate example, if all the Maraji' issue fatwas today banning all music regardless of category, I will not follow them (on that fatwa). But then again that is me, my own personal opinion. I have a firm believe that Aql has been instilled in each and every one of us for a reason. (I am not implying you or anyone is not using your Aql lol). Anyway, I don't mean to drone on, but you catch my drift.

 

Jzk Allah.

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9 minutes ago, ServantOfTheOne said:

Salam @The BatmanAs a separate example, if all the Maraji' issue fatwas today banning all music regardless of category, I will not follow them (on that fatwa). But then again that is me, my own personal opinion. I have a firm believe that Aql has been instilled in each and every one of us for a reason. (I am not implying you or anyone is not using your Aql lol). Anyway, I don't mean to drone on, but you catch my drift.

 

Jzk Allah.

Wa Alaykum al Salam.

Thank you for your wonderful akhlaq. Although I would kindly disagree, but to each his own my brother :)

Thank you.

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:bismillah:

:salam:

 

4 hours ago, ServantOfTheOne said:

Ofcourse people want life to be as easy as possible. If life can be easy AND islamic, great!

Anyway, there is no point in being Muslim if your aim in life is to inflict suffering on yourself with 24/7 jihad nafs and completely ignoring simple (yet Islamically permissible) pleasures in life. Allah never told you to suffer in this world or else.

Moving on...

In addition to what Marjas may say about music, as long as the music does not influence you or those around you to perform anti-islamic acts, and as long as the music does not have a destructive effect on you or those around you, then logically I (personally) see no problem with it.

With all due respect, there isn't really any music out there which does not have a destructive effect on the person. Its kind of akin to drinking alcohol in the sense that you aren't yourself. When we listen to Music, what is halal or permissible about any of it? How do we destroy our nafs when we are letting it get bigger by listening to music?           

2 hours ago, The Batman said:

No doubt. Those who sit around all day doing dhikr yet they abandon having fun, those people are extremists. This is not Islam, this is extreme worship which is not good. And we have narrations against this, from both the Sunnis and Shi'a.

As for the second half of your comment, this is incorrect. Because this is your personal opinion, and your personal opinion, just like mine, does not matter in Fiqh, because both of us have not reached a level where we can issue fatwa(s).

The scholars differed on the matter of music, some have issued harsher rulings upon it. I'm not saying the harsher ruling is correct, I am saying that it's a matter which is differed upon by the Fuqaha.

So for example, based on the fatwa of Sayyed al-Sistani, the majority of mainstream music nowadays would be haram. And if a song is created even about good things (like Islam), but it sounds like what most mainstream music sounds like, than as per Sayyed al-Sistani it is haram to listen to.

I think that there is a direct relation between listening to music and losing faith. I don't think people not listening to music implies them not having any fun in their lives. Allah(swt) created many things for his creation to enjoy in this world. There is nature, parks, wildlife, historical places, a lot of things to see and do. Allah(swt) doesn't create music, people create music. Hes the Creator of the Universe. 

:ws:     

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On 1/20/2016 at 7:07 PM, John Al-Ameli said:

I believe some people dont really know what Islam is in life, and that is why, when they stop being religious, they go to extreme measures. Because they used to be robots in traditions and religion, that never thought a bit. But thought, if they made it harder on themselves that they are more religious. And what do you know, a couple of years later, the ones who you claimed wanted the "easy path in life" continue their religious duty, while you would have failed, BIG TIME.

Brother, That is not a matter of "thought", we should be eager as to know our duties.

We need to put a barrier between ourselves and the painful punishment of the Day of Judgment. We need to provide a legitimate excuses based on authentic reasons for our doings; So that if we have disobeyed God in reality we would be justified and insha'Allah would achieve his satisfaction finally.

And to my understanding, saying that something is not Harram according to our thoughts we are not legitimately justified to disobey; we have to see the reasons behind that.

Since we are not well qualified as to verify reasons we will follow Marja's.

 

And regarding our particular issue, that is a matter of consensus that Music is Haram as I have posted above. So I think, A pious Muslim -at least as a matter cautionary act- will get away from the certain haram kind of music.

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Music threads on SC show that people have different understanding of which music is disallowed and which isn't. Marjas' rulings in this regard are generic. You are left with interpreting them and to fit them to individual situations. The biggest confusion seems about the definition of "gatherings for entertainment and amusement." Confusion persists because it can be defined strictly as well as specifically. Music IS entertainment, nothing more, it's art, not a necessity of life. But I don't think marjas mean this when they say "entertainment." It connotes forbidden actions among a group of revelers not a person playing a Mozart concerto on a piano or listening to it on her iPod. Gatherings for "entertainment" and "amusement" such as Glastonbury festival in Europe and the like. 

There is another confusion about whether musical instruments are absolutely haram. If they are, then how could there ever be permissible music? If all instruments are forbidden to play, it precludes any music from being ever played.

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11 hours ago, Marbles said:

The biggest confusion seems about the definition of "gatherings for entertainment and amusement." Confusion persists because it can be defined strictly as well as specifically. Music IS entertainment, nothing more, it's art, not a necessity of life. But I don't think marjas mean this when they say "entertainment." It connotes forbidden actions among a group of revelers not a person playing a Mozart concerto on a piano or listening to it on her iPod. Gatherings for "entertainment" and "amusement" such as Glastonbury festival in Europe and the like. 

"Gathering for entertainment" -as you said- is not the normal ones. It is a kind of gathering which usually attracts sexual desires like some weddings.

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On 1/21/2016 at 8:01 PM, Marbles said:

There is another confusion about whether musical instruments are absolutely haram. If they are, then how could there ever be permissible music? If all instruments are forbidden to play, it precludes any music from being ever played.

This part confuses me mostly... According to hadiths, instruments are forbidden. Then so is music?..

Are hadiths about music weak? Can anyone inform about this?

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17 hours ago, celestial said:

This part confuses me mostly... According to hadiths, instruments are forbidden. Then so is music?..

Are hadiths about music weak? Can anyone inform about this?

According to the fatwa mentioned, not all kinds of music is Haram; so related instruments will not be forbidden either.

And a person may learn how to play Music in the Halal way. Let's look at a question from Ayt. Sistani:

Quote

Question: Musical instruments are of different kinds. Sometimes they are used in musical gatherings and sometimes for soothing the soul. Is it then permissible to buy these instruments, manufacture them, deal in them, or play them to soothe the soul or listen to the ir sounds when someone else is playing them?

Answer: It is not permissible to deal in the instruments of harãm entertainment: neither selling nor buying, just as it is not permissible to manufacture them and accept remuneration for making them.
“An instrument of harãm entertainment” means that its physical shape—that gives its value and eventually the purpose for acquiring it— is not suitable except for use in harãm entertainment.

Therefore; not every kind of instrument will be forbidden.

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The only reason we now find it so hard to imagine it being haram to listen to music is because we are now so saturated with it, that it's hard to avoid. Before modern times however, avoid music would have been relatively easy, and nobody would have thought anything of it. Instead of complaining about the fact that we are not allowed to listen to it, or what type we can or can not listen to, maybe we should reflect on how addicted we've become to it, and how healthy that is. Isn't it a little concerning that people find it impossible to imagine living without at least some form of music?

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9 hours ago, Haydar Husayn said:

The only reason we now find it so hard to imagine it being haram to listen to music is because we are now so saturated with it, that it's hard to avoid. Before modern times however, avoid music would have been relatively easy, and nobody would have thought anything of it. Instead of complaining about the fact that we are not allowed to listen to it, or what type we can or can not listen to, maybe we should reflect on how addicted we've become to it, and how healthy that is. Isn't it a little concerning that people find it impossible to imagine living without at least some form of music?

Nobody is saying "I can't live without Music".

My argument is, as it follows:

1. We need to put music and songs as two different categories.

2. One can not consider "Music" or "Songs" as a whole is Haram, you have content that is Haram. You have Wojdaniyat that sing about Islam, or God or the Prophet or Imams. Well religious people tend to say YEAH thats not songs thats Wojdaniyat. Well guess it, it is a song, but its GENRE is Wojdaniyya. Or what if I am listening to a revolutionary song, or patriotic song. Where is the harm in that? 

Or you can say as well, "Movies" as a whole is Haram, and then I can say American Pie as the same Khada Hafez Rafeek (Iranian movie about martyrs)

3. "music is entertainment" should be an Islamic definition of "Entertainment"

Edited by John Al-Ameli
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Defnition of Ḥarām Music Signing
Any sort of music or signing, which keeps human beings away from Allah, the Sublime, and away from moral merits and spirituality and drives them towards lechery, futility, carelessness, and sinful acts, strays human beings from the path of Allah, the Exalted, is considered as lahwī and ḥarām.

Criterion for Ḥarām Music
Any music categorized due to its nature as lahwī and straying human being from the path of Allah, the Exalted, is ḥarām, irrespective of whether or not it is exciting. Whether it engenders in the listener a state of melancholy and crying is also immaterial. Should the music not be of the type suitable for gatherings of sin and lahw, nor lead to bad consequences, there is no evidence for issuing it as ḥarām.

Military March and National Anthem
There is no objection to military music (march), music in patriotic singing and the like as well as to being paid for playing them.

Hearing versus Listening to Music
If a ḥarām piece of music is being played in a place leaving which proves unfeasible or unbearably hard for you, pay no attention to it even though it reaches your ears unwillingly.

To Play Tambourine
The rule on playing tambourine depends on how to use it. It is ḥarām to play it in a lahwī manner suitable for sinful merrymaking gatherings. As far as religious ceremonies/occasions are concerned, the sanctity and status of Ahlul-Bayt (a.s.) sould be observed.

To Use Musical Instruments
By itself, there is no objection to using musical instruments to play tunes for revolutionary chanting, religious programs or carrying out useful cultural educational activities.
Also, learning and teaching playing music as well as selling and buying musical instruments for the above mentioned causes are no problem.

Buying/Selling Multi-purpose Musical Instruments
There is no problem in buying and selling musical instruments that serve dual purposes, intending to use them in playing non-lahwī tunes.

 

 

Edited by John Al-Ameli
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14 hours ago, Haydar Husayn said:

The only reason we now find it so hard to imagine it being haram to listen to music is because we are now so saturated with it, that it's hard to avoid. Before modern times however, avoid music would have been relatively easy, and nobody would have thought anything of it. Instead of complaining about the fact that we are not allowed to listen to it, or what type we can or can not listen to, maybe we should reflect on how addicted we've become to it, and how healthy that is. Isn't it a little concerning that people find it impossible to imagine living without at least some form of music?

I used to be a musician. Music was helping me to get through hard times. Somehow it was connecting me to higher realms and giving me a piece of mind. It was giving me a chance to reflect my inner world and letting out my emotions without hurting anybody. I was able to avoid getting addicted to some other bad habits through music.

If its haram, its ok i already quit & got rid of my instruments some time ago. God's order is the ultimate thing to obey without even questioning.

But problem is, is this really God's order? Do we really have to refrain ourselves from feeling peace through music? What if music meant by hadiths are referring to the what pagan arabs were doing perhaps with some belly dancing & drinking?

I agree today music is a weapon in satans hands. But why can't we arm ourselves with the same weapon and promote our beliefs through it?

satan is using media, movies, art, music, technology. What are we doing to counter his evil? And is what do we do enough without using these tools?

What are we supposed to do in this constant attack from all sides? What should we do for introducing ourselves to other people & beliefs? Do you think with all that hatred and prejudice, outraged masses in west will pay attention to what mullahs say? And yeah, those annoyingly vocoded non-english nasheeds are not working either...

 

Edited by celestial
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18 hours ago, mostafaa said:

According to the fatwa mentioned, not all kinds of music is Haram; so related instruments will not be forbidden either.

And a person may learn how to play Music in the Halal way. Let's look at a question from Ayt. Sistani:

Therefore; not every kind of instrument will be forbidden.

This means my piano and flute are safe? 

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19 minutes ago, Marbles said:

This means my piano and flute are safe? 

 

Quote

Holy Prophet (S) said, "I forbid you to dance and to play the flute, the drum and the tambourines."

http://www.al-islam.org/music-and-its-effects-a-h-sheriff/music-light-traditions

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12 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

To Play Tambourine
The rule on playing tambourine depends on how to use it. It is ḥarām to play it in a lahwī manner suitable for sinful merrymaking gatherings. As far as religious ceremonies/occasions are concerned, the sanctity and status of Ahlul-Bayt (a.s.) sould be observed.
 

www.leader.ir

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On 24/01/2016 at 8:06 AM, Haji 2003 said:

Sorry but based on the link you provided,

 

Holy Prophet (S) said," Molten lead will be put in the ears of that person who listens attentively to music and songs.

Imam Ali Reza (a.s) said," And to listen attentively to the musical instrument (is also a greater sin )....." manufacturing, buying or selling musical instrument is forbidden, and the profits accrued from such dealings are illegal and the transaction is also null and void. Even safe keeping of musical instrument is forbidden and to destroy them is obligatory.

Is this for real? I dont feel like I can take this seriously, music is so dear to people, I wouldn't understand a mass ban over it If Allah made us enjoy it so much?

 

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1 hour ago, HayderM said:

Sorry but based on the link you provided,

 

Holy Prophet (S) said," Molten lead will be put in the ears of that person who listens attentively to music and songs.

Imam Ali Reza (a.s) said," And to listen attentively to the musical instrument (is also a greater sin )....." manufacturing, buying or selling musical instrument is forbidden, and the profits accrued from such dealings are illegal and the transaction is also null and void. Even safe keeping of musical instrument is forbidden and to destroy them is obligatory.

Is this for real? I dont feel like I can take this seriously, music is so dear to people, I wouldn't understand a mass ban over it If Allah made us enjoy it so much?

 

Babies fall to sleep with lullabies. Music is something that can be found in human nature... I'm having hard time about those hadiths as well. Are those hadith reliable in the first place...

Edited by celestial
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Can someone clarify what the dominant view amongst Shia scholars is on the permissibility of musical instruments? I remember listening to a lecture by Ammar Nakshawani some time ago, and he seemed to be very against it (I don't recall hearing anything about exceptional circumstances as some posters here have mentioned, i.e., for the purposes of 'revolutionary chanting').

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