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In the Name of God بسم الله

A Dialogue on your understanding of - Shirk

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S.M.H.A.

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The context of the Shirk that doesn't forgive, is context of who we choose to follow and obey in Quran. 

The context shows the Taghut is all those followed who following is not following God. In Suratal Nisaa, that is the context of the verses. 

And our Imams make it clear those who take those to be followed other then those who God appoint have no share in the religion of submission to God.

People who value their fallible leaders over God to the extent they allow to teach teachings that contradict what they know for certain God doesn't teach, and make God the means to follow them, are doing an unforgivable shirk of worshipping the Taghut.

Of course, idols and what not, was always out of this intention. And it was all for self-identity, which is a false identity inspired by Satan.

Let me quote the verses:

أَلَمْ تَرَ إِلَى الَّذِينَ أُوتُوا نَصِيبًا مِنَ الْكِتَابِ يَشْتَرُونَ الضَّلَالَةَ وَيُرِيدُونَ أَنْ تَضِلُّوا السَّبِيلَ {44}

[Shakir 4:44] Have you not considered those to whom a portion of the Book has been given? They buy error and desire that you should go astray from the way.

وَاللَّهُ أَعْلَمُ بِأَعْدَائِكُمْ ۚ وَكَفَىٰ بِاللَّهِ وَلِيًّا وَكَفَىٰ بِاللَّهِ نَصِيرًا {45}

[Shakir 4:45] And Allah best knows your enemies; and Allah suffices as a Guardian, and Allah suffices as a Helper.

مِنَ الَّذِينَ هَادُوا يُحَرِّفُونَ الْكَلِمَ عَنْ مَوَاضِعِهِ وَيَقُولُونَ سَمِعْنَا وَعَصَيْنَا وَاسْمَعْ غَيْرَ مُسْمَعٍ وَرَاعِنَا لَيًّا بِأَلْسِنَتِهِمْ وَطَعْنًا فِي الدِّينِ ۚ وَلَوْ أَنَّهُمْ قَالُوا سَمِعْنَا وَأَطَعْنَا وَاسْمَعْ وَانْظُرْنَا لَكَانَ خَيْرًا لَهُمْ وَأَقْوَمَ وَلَٰكِنْ لَعَنَهُمُ اللَّهُ بِكُفْرِهِمْ فَلَا يُؤْمِنُونَ إِلَّا قَلِيلًا {46}

[Shakir 4:46] Of those who are Jews (there are those who) alter words from their places and say: We have heard and we disobey and: Hear, may you not be made to hear! and: Raina, distorting (the word) with their tongues and taunting about religion; and if they had said (instead): We have heard and we obey, and hearken, and unzurna it would have been better for them and more upright; but Allah has cursed them on account of their unbelief, so they do not believe but a little.

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ أُوتُوا الْكِتَابَ آمِنُوا بِمَا نَزَّلْنَا مُصَدِّقًا لِمَا مَعَكُمْ مِنْ قَبْلِ أَنْ نَطْمِسَ وُجُوهًا فَنَرُدَّهَا عَلَىٰ أَدْبَارِهَا أَوْ نَلْعَنَهُمْ كَمَا لَعَنَّا أَصْحَابَ السَّبْتِ ۚ وَكَانَ أَمْرُ اللَّهِ مَفْعُولًا {47}

[Shakir 4:47] O you who have been given the Book! believe that which We have revealed, verifying what you have, before We alter faces then turn them on their backs, or curse them as We cursed the violaters of the Sabbath, and the command of Allah shall be executed.

إِنَّ اللَّهَ لَا يَغْفِرُ أَنْ يُشْرَكَ بِهِ وَيَغْفِرُ مَا دُونَ ذَٰلِكَ لِمَنْ يَشَاءُ ۚ وَمَنْ يُشْرِكْ بِاللَّهِ فَقَدِ افْتَرَىٰ إِثْمًا عَظِيمًا {48}

[Shakir 4:48] Surely Allah does not forgive that anything should be associated with Him, and forgives what is besides that to whomsoever He pleases; and whoever associates anything with Allah, he devises indeed a great sin.

أَلَمْ تَرَ إِلَى الَّذِينَ يُزَكُّونَ أَنْفُسَهُمْ ۚ بَلِ اللَّهُ يُزَكِّي مَنْ يَشَاءُ وَلَا يُظْلَمُونَ فَتِيلًا {49}

[Shakir 4:49] Have you not considered those who attribute purity to themselves? Nay, Allah purifies whom He pleases; and they shall not be wronged the husk of a date stone.

انْظُرْ كَيْفَ يَفْتَرُونَ عَلَى اللَّهِ الْكَذِبَ ۖ وَكَفَىٰ بِهِ إِثْمًا مُبِينًا {50}

[Shakir 4:50] See how they forge the lie against Allah, and this is sufficient as a manifest sin.

أَلَمْ تَرَ إِلَى الَّذِينَ أُوتُوا نَصِيبًا مِنَ الْكِتَابِ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِالْجِبْتِ وَالطَّاغُوتِ وَيَقُولُونَ لِلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا هَٰؤُلَاءِ أَهْدَىٰ مِنَ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا سَبِيلًا {51}

[Shakir 4:51] Have you not seen those to whom a portion of the Book has been given? They believe in idols and false deities and say of those who disbelieve: These are better guided in the path than those who believe.

أُولَٰئِكَ الَّذِينَ لَعَنَهُمُ اللَّهُ ۖ وَمَنْ يَلْعَنِ اللَّهُ فَلَنْ تَجِدَ لَهُ نَصِيرًا {52}

[Shakir 4:52] Those are they whom Allah has cursed, and whomever Allah curses you shall not find any helper for him.

أَمْ لَهُمْ نَصِيبٌ مِنَ الْمُلْكِ فَإِذًا لَا يُؤْتُونَ النَّاسَ نَقِيرًا {53}

[Shakir 4:53] Or have they a share in the kingdom? But then they would not give to people even the speck in the date stone.

أَمْ يَحْسُدُونَ النَّاسَ عَلَىٰ مَا آتَاهُمُ اللَّهُ مِنْ فَضْلِهِ ۖ فَقَدْ آتَيْنَا آلَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ الْكِتَابَ وَالْحِكْمَةَ وَآتَيْنَاهُمْ مُلْكًا عَظِيمًا {54}

[Shakir 4:54] Or do they envy the people for what Allah has given them of His grace? But indeed We have given to Ibrahim's children the Book and the wisdom, and We have given them a grand kingdom.

فَمِنْهُمْ مَنْ آمَنَ بِهِ وَمِنْهُمْ مَنْ صَدَّ عَنْهُ ۚ وَكَفَىٰ بِجَهَنَّمَ سَعِيرًا {55}

[Shakir 4:55] So of them is he who believes in him, and of them is he who turns away from him, and hell is sufficient to burn.

إِنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا بِآيَاتِنَا سَوْفَ نُصْلِيهِمْ نَارًا كُلَّمَا نَضِجَتْ جُلُودُهُمْ بَدَّلْنَاهُمْ جُلُودًا غَيْرَهَا لِيَذُوقُوا الْعَذَابَ ۗ إِنَّ اللَّهَ كَانَ عَزِيزًا حَكِيمًا {56}

[Shakir 4:56] (As for) those who disbelieve in Our communications, We shall make them enter fire; so oft as their skins are thoroughly burned, We will change them for other skins, that they may taste the chastisement; surely Allah is Mighty, Wise.

وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ سَنُدْخِلُهُمْ جَنَّاتٍ تَجْرِي مِنْ تَحْتِهَا الْأَنْهَارُ خَالِدِينَ فِيهَا أَبَدًا ۖ لَهُمْ فِيهَا أَزْوَاجٌ مُطَهَّرَةٌ ۖ وَنُدْخِلُهُمْ ظِلًّا ظَلِيلًا {57}

[Shakir 4:57] And (as for) those who believe and do good deeds, We will make them enter gardens beneath which rivers flow, to abide in them for ever; they shall have therein pure mates, and We shall make them enter a dense shade.

إِنَّ اللَّهَ يَأْمُرُكُمْ أَنْ تُؤَدُّوا الْأَمَانَاتِ إِلَىٰ أَهْلِهَا وَإِذَا حَكَمْتُمْ بَيْنَ النَّاسِ أَنْ تَحْكُمُوا بِالْعَدْلِ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ نِعِمَّا يَعِظُكُمْ بِهِ ۗ إِنَّ اللَّهَ كَانَ سَمِيعًا بَصِيرًا {58}

[Shakir 4:58] Surely Allah commands you to make over trusts to their owners and that when you judge between people you judge with justice; surely Allah admonishes you with what is excellent; surely Allah is Seeing, Hearing.

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا أَطِيعُوا اللَّهَ وَأَطِيعُوا الرَّسُولَ وَأُولِي الْأَمْرِ مِنْكُمْ ۖ فَإِنْ تَنَازَعْتُمْ فِي شَيْءٍ فَرُدُّوهُ إِلَى اللَّهِ وَالرَّسُولِ إِنْ كُنْتُمْ تُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الْآخِرِ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ خَيْرٌ وَأَحْسَنُ تَأْوِيلًا {59}

[4:59] O you who believe! obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those who possess the authority from among you; so if you quarrel about anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you believe in Allah and the last day; this is better and very good in the end.

أَلَمْ تَرَ إِلَى الَّذِينَ يَزْعُمُونَ أَنَّهُمْ آمَنُوا بِمَا أُنْزِلَ إِلَيْكَ وَمَا أُنْزِلَ مِنْ قَبْلِكَ يُرِيدُونَ أَنْ يَتَحَاكَمُوا إِلَى الطَّاغُوتِ وَقَدْ أُمِرُوا أَنْ يَكْفُرُوا بِهِ وَيُرِيدُ الشَّيْطَانُ أَنْ يُضِلَّهُمْ ضَلَالًا بَعِيدًا {60}

[Shakir 4:60] Have you not seen those who assert that they believe in what has been revealed to you and what was revealed before you? They desire to summon one another to the judgment of the Shaitan, though they were commanded to deny him, and the Shaitan desires to lead them astray into a remote error.

وَإِذَا قِيلَ لَهُمْ تَعَالَوْا إِلَىٰ مَا أَنْزَلَ اللَّهُ وَإِلَى الرَّسُولِ رَأَيْتَ الْمُنَافِقِينَ يَصُدُّونَ عَنْكَ صُدُودًا {61}

[Shakir 4:61] And when it is said to them: Come to what Allah has revealed and to the Messenger, you will see the hypocrites turning away from you with (utter) aversion.

فَكَيْفَ إِذَا أَصَابَتْهُمْ مُصِيبَةٌ بِمَا قَدَّمَتْ أَيْدِيهِمْ ثُمَّ جَاءُوكَ يَحْلِفُونَ بِاللَّهِ إِنْ أَرَدْنَا إِلَّا إِحْسَانًا وَتَوْفِيقًا {62}

[Shakir 4:62] But how will it be when misfortune befalls them on account of what their hands have sent before? Then they will come to you swearing by Allah: We did not desire (anything) but good and concord.

أُولَٰئِكَ الَّذِينَ يَعْلَمُ اللَّهُ مَا فِي قُلُوبِهِمْ فَأَعْرِضْ عَنْهُمْ وَعِظْهُمْ وَقُلْ لَهُمْ فِي أَنْفُسِهِمْ قَوْلًا بَلِيغًا {63}

[Shakir 4:63] These are they of whom Allah knows what is in their hearts; therefore turn aside from them and admonish them, and speak to them effectual words concerning themselves.

وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَا مِنْ رَسُولٍ إِلَّا لِيُطَاعَ بِإِذْنِ اللَّهِ ۚ وَلَوْ أَنَّهُمْ إِذْ ظَلَمُوا أَنْفُسَهُمْ جَاءُوكَ فَاسْتَغْفَرُوا اللَّهَ وَاسْتَغْفَرَ لَهُمُ الرَّسُولُ لَوَجَدُوا اللَّهَ تَوَّابًا رَحِيمًا {64}

[Shakir 4:64] And We did not send any messenger but that he should be obeyed by Allah's permission; and had they, when they were unjust to themselves, come to you and asked forgiveness of Allah and the Messenger had (also) asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah Oft-returning (to mercy), Merciful.

فَلَا وَرَبِّكَ لَا يُؤْمِنُونَ حَتَّىٰ يُحَكِّمُوكَ فِيمَا شَجَرَ بَيْنَهُمْ ثُمَّ لَا يَجِدُوا فِي أَنْفُسِهِمْ حَرَجًا مِمَّا قَضَيْتَ وَيُسَلِّمُوا تَسْلِيمًا {65}

[Shakir 4:65] But no! by your Lord! they do not believe (in reality) until they make you a judge of that which has become a matter of disagreement among them, and then do not find any straitness in their hearts as to what you have decided and submit with entire submission.

وَلَوْ أَنَّا كَتَبْنَا عَلَيْهِمْ أَنِ اقْتُلُوا أَنْفُسَكُمْ أَوِ اخْرُجُوا مِنْ دِيَارِكُمْ مَا فَعَلُوهُ إِلَّا قَلِيلٌ مِنْهُمْ ۖ وَلَوْ أَنَّهُمْ فَعَلُوا مَا يُوعَظُونَ بِهِ لَكَانَ خَيْرًا لَهُمْ وَأَشَدَّ تَثْبِيتًا {66}

[Shakir 4:66] And if We had prescribed for them: Lay down your lives or go forth from your homes, they would not have done it except a few of them; and if they had done what they were admonished, it would have certainly been better for them and best in strengthening (them);

وَإِذًا لَآتَيْنَاهُمْ مِنْ لَدُنَّا أَجْرًا عَظِيمًا {67}

[Shakir 4:67] And then We would certainly have given them from Ourselves a great reward.

وَلَهَدَيْنَاهُمْ صِرَاطًا مُسْتَقِيمًا {68}

[Shakir 4:68] And We would certainly have guided them in the right path.

وَمَنْ يُطِعِ اللَّهَ وَالرَّسُولَ فَأُولَٰئِكَ مَعَ الَّذِينَ أَنْعَمَ اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِمْ مِنَ النَّبِيِّينَ وَالصِّدِّيقِينَ وَالشُّهَدَاءِ وَالصَّالِحِينَ ۚ وَحَسُنَ أُولَٰئِكَ رَفِيقًا {69}

[Shakir 4:69] And whoever obeys Allah and the Messenger, these are with those upon whom Allah has bestowed favors from among the prophets and the truthful and the martyrs and the good, and a goodly company are they!

 

 

The context is given about a portion of people of the book who buy error and desired for Muslims to buy error.  It talks about a people who entrusted to obeying God through his chosen ones, but disobeyed. That is they rejected his Messenger. Then it is said God doesn't forgive that he should be associated with him. Then talks about how a certain people of the book attribute purity to themselves and that they lie against God. Then it talks about how a portion of the people of book that the Jibt and Taghut are more guided then those who believe. Then it asks them if they have a share in the authority. The context in then clearly regarding the MULK and putting others with God as the True King. It in fact, is valuing people on par with God. 

Then it shows their true intention "Or do they envy the people for what God has given them out of his grace? So then we given the family of Ibrahim the book and the wisdom and given them  a great authority"

Here the Mulk is God's authority in so far as obeying them would be obeying God, and that type of obedience was held in all levels of the journey, and was the "Imammate" (Leadership that is obligatory to follow).

Ibrahim, Ismael, Isaac, Yaqoub, and Yusuf were Anbiya, but here it's emphasizing their authority.

Then it talks about so of them believed in that the great authority and some of them turning away from it.

Then it talks about people believing in God's Ayat, linking those who possess the authortiy with God's Ayat. And it talks about the consequence of disbelieving and the reward of believing.

Then in after emphasizing the judging between people by justice and giving trust to their owners, in which includes the position of leadership and who to follow to be God's chosen ones, tell us to:

1. Obey God.

2. Obey the Messenger and those who possess the authority from us.

 

Now if people rejected Ibrahim's authority or Isaac's authority or Jacob's authority or Joseph's authority, the Quran is clear, disbelieving in their authority is not allowed. Turning away from it results in hell.

That is why we are then emphasized with a great emphasis in light of that, to obey God and the Messenger and those who possess the authority to the extent we refer all disputes back to God and his Messenger.

In short it says "Follow the Quran and follow Mohammad and his Family to the extent if you differ in any disputes refer it back to Quran and Sunnah"

This emphasized in context of leaders of the people of the book in reality have no share in the authority. 

In reality, the Quran shows, this model of following fallible leaders to follow God has never worked. 

Instead God out of his mercy, assigned his chosen ones to lead humanity instead and so that we unite on their leadership.

The obedience is such that if we dispute regarding any matter, the dispute should be settled by Quran and Sunnah in which the Ulil-Amr are entrusted to teach and hence they been given the authority that has been compared to that of the family of Ibrahim.

And it was in this context it was said God doesn't forgive Shirk, and the talk of Jibt and Taghut was in this context, and referring to judgement of the Taghut is unacceptable.

 

 

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5 hours ago, peace seeker II said:

Salam Alaikum

Shirq means partnering.

Of course it is in reference to partnering with Allah.

We are guilty of partnering others with Allah each time we do anything that is not 100% in line with the commandments. For instance when we watch a movie instead of praying on time, we are suddenly setting up a partner with Allah. When we hurt others while Allah tells us not to be wrong-doers (zalemeen) we also do something that competes with the pure rules of Allah.

Hence i believe that we all commit shirq all the time, and it is impossible to have pure 100% tawheed (oneness in action and mentality towards Allah).

Some might wonder why Allah talks so harshly about those who commit shirq if we are all mushriqs. Well, that is because there are different levels of shirq and zulm as well. We all commit zulm and shirq to a certain level, but there are some of us who will not be forgiven by Allah in the end. That is where taqwa or fear comes in. We may never be sure that our zulm or shirq or akhta (mistakes) will be forgiven. 

At the same time we may never be sure that we are not guilty of any of these. 

That is my opinion, and remember me as a slave of Allah who is afraid of his shirq not being forgiven by Allah. Each time i took anything or anyone else as a priority other than Allah. Oh God!

No akhi being disobedient is not Shirk it is Fisq be very careful when labeling actions as Shirk. I think what you're referring to is Riyaa' which is performong acts of worship but to appear pious i.e not for Allah's sake.

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1 hour ago, Ibn Matta said:

No akhi being disobedient is not Shirk it is Fisq be very careful when labeling actions as Shirk. I think what you're referring to is Riyaa' which is performong acts of worship but to appear pious i.e not for Allah's sake.

 

i am explaining to you how i see it and understand it. If i am disobedient for the sake of something or someone other than Allah, then i am setting up a partner. In the case of iblis it was his ego or arrogance that caused his disobedience. He set himself up as a partner to God by challenging God's will and understanding of things. 

To me that constitutes partnering others with Allah, as i chose others over Him. And may He forgive me for it.

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94 - فر : محمد بن الحسن بن إبراهيم الاوسي معنعنا عن جابر بن الانصاري رضي الله عنه قال : قال أبوجعفر عليه السلام عن قول الله تعالى ( 6 ) : " إن الله لا يغفر أن يشرك به " يا جابر إن الله لا يغفر أن يشرك بولاية علي بن أبي طالب وطاعته ، وأما قوله : " ويغفر ما دون ذلك لمن يشاء " فإنه مع ولايته ( 7 ) .
 

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Abu Jafar [as] about God's words "Verily God does not forgive that he be associated with him" O Jaber verily Allah doesn't forgive that people associate with the Wilayah of Ali ibn Talib and his obedience....

والعياشي عن الباقر عليه السلام ان الله لا يغفر أن يشرك به يعني أنه لا يغفر لمن يكفر بولاية علي صلوات الله عليه ويغفر ما دون ذلك لمن يشاء لمن والى علياً عليه السلام.
 

From Al-Baqir [as] "verily Allah does not forgive those who disbelieve in the Wilayah of Ali (blessings be upon him)..."

في الكافي عن الباقر عليه الصلاة والسلام أم لهم نصيب من الملك يعني الإمامة والخلافة قال ونحن الناس الذين عنى الله 

From Al-Baqir (blessings be upon and him and peace)  "Do they have share in the authority" it means the Leadership (Imammate) and Caliphate, and he said we are the people that Allah meant.

 

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Attributes Of (His) Essence And Of (His) Actions

Says the Shaykh Abu Ja'far (on whom be the mercy of Allah): our belief concerning the attributes of (His) essence is this. Whenever we describe Allah by the attributes of His essence,1 we only desire by each attribute the denial of its opposite in respect of Him, the Glorious and Mighty. We say that Allah, the Glorious and Mighty, has always been the Hearing One (sami), the Seeing One (basir), the Knowing One ('alim), the Wise (hakim), the Powerful (qadir), the Glorious (aziz), the Living (hayy), the Ever-lasting (qayyum), the One (wahid), the Prior (qadim) - for these are the attributes of His essence.

We do not say that He, the Glorious and Mighty has always been the Great Creator (khallaq), the One possessed of Action (fa'il), Will (sha'i')2 and Intention (murid), the Approver (radi), the Disapprover (sakhit), the Provider (raziq), the Bountiful One (wahhab), the Speaker (mutakallim), - because these are the attributes of His Actions (af'al), and (therefore) they are created (muhdath).3 It is not right to say that Allah is always to be qualified by them.4

1.Sh. Mufid in Tas. (Mur. ii. 19-20) explains this and says that the attributes of Allah are divided into two classes. In the first class, there is no reference to action -sifatu 'dh-dhat; in the second, they refer to action - af'al. The distinction is this: in the case of the attributes of the essence, the opposite cannot be predicted of Allah. You cannot say, for example, that He dies (opp. of hayy, ever-living), or is weak (opp. of qadir), or is ignorant; and you cannot describe Him as being anything other than living (hayy), knowing (`alim) and powerful (qadir), whilst you can say that Allah is not a creator today; or that He is not a giver of sustenance to Zayd; or that He is not the revivifier of an actually dead man, and so on. And Allah can be described by such contraries as Allah gives and withholds, causes to live and causes to die, etc.

http://www.al-islam.org/a-shiite-creed-shaykh-saduq/attributes-his-essence-and-his-actions

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10 hours ago, peace seeker II said:

 

i am explaining to you how i see it and understand it. If i am disobedient for the sake of something or someone other than Allah, then i am setting up a partner. In the case of iblis it was his ego or arrogance that caused his disobedience. He set himself up as a partner to God by challenging God's will and understanding of things. 

To me that constitutes partnering others with Allah, as i chose others over Him. And may He forgive me for it.

Yes but akhi its not about how you see it, its about how the Qur'an and Sunnah sees it. The Qur'an in particular is very clear that Shirk is simply creating partners with Allaah through Ibadah. 

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9 hours ago, S.M.H.A. said:

"

Attributes Of (His) Essence And Of (His) Actions

Says the Shaykh Abu Ja'far (on whom be the mercy of Allah): our belief concerning the attributes of (His) essence is this. Whenever we describe Allah by the attributes of His essence,1 we only desire by each attribute the denial of its opposite in respect of Him, the Glorious and Mighty. We say that Allah, the Glorious and Mighty, has always been the Hearing One (sami), the Seeing One (basir), the Knowing One ('alim), the Wise (hakim), the Powerful (qadir), the Glorious (aziz), the Living (hayy), the Ever-lasting (qayyum), the One (wahid), the Prior (qadim) - for these are the attributes of His essence.

We do not say that He, the Glorious and Mighty has always been the Great Creator (khallaq), the One possessed of Action (fa'il), Will (sha'i')2 and Intention (murid), the Approver (radi), the Disapprover (sakhit), the Provider (raziq), the Bountiful One (wahhab), the Speaker (mutakallim), - because these are the attributes of His Actions (af'al), and (therefore) they are created (muhdath).3 It is not right to say that Allah is always to be qualified by them.4

1.Sh. Mufid in Tas. (Mur. ii. 19-20) explains this and says that the attributes of Allah are divided into two classes. In the first class, there is no reference to action -sifatu 'dh-dhat; in the second, they refer to action - af'al. The distinction is this: in the case of the attributes of the essence, the opposite cannot be predicted of Allah. You cannot say, for example, that He dies (opp. of hayy, ever-living), or is weak (opp. of qadir), or is ignorant; and you cannot describe Him as being anything other than living (hayy), knowing (`alim) and powerful (qadir), whilst you can say that Allah is not a creator today; or that He is not a giver of sustenance to Zayd; or that He is not the revivifier of an actually dead man, and so on. And Allah can be described by such contraries as Allah gives and withholds, causes to live and causes to die, etc.

http://www.al-islam.org/a-shiite-creed-shaykh-saduq/attributes-his-essence-and-his-actions

Yes this is Tawheed al-Asma wa Sifaat

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9 hours ago, StrugglingForTheLight said:

94 - فر : محمد بن الحسن بن إبراهيم الاوسي معنعنا عن جابر بن الانصاري رضي الله عنه قال : قال أبوجعفر عليه السلام عن قول الله تعالى ( 6 ) : " إن الله لا يغفر أن يشرك به " يا جابر إن الله لا يغفر أن يشرك بولاية علي بن أبي طالب وطاعته ، وأما قوله : " ويغفر ما دون ذلك لمن يشاء " فإنه مع ولايته ( 7 ) .
 

___________________________________________________________

Abu Jafar [as] about God's words "Verily God does not forgive that he be associated with him" O Jaber verily Allah doesn't forgive that people associate with the Wilayah of Ali ibn Talib and his obedience....

والعياشي عن الباقر عليه السلام ان الله لا يغفر أن يشرك به يعني أنه لا يغفر لمن يكفر بولاية علي صلوات الله عليه ويغفر ما دون ذلك لمن يشاء لمن والى علياً عليه السلام.
 

From Al-Baqir [as] "verily Allah does not forgive those who disbelieve in the Wilayah of Ali (blessings be upon him)..."

في الكافي عن الباقر عليه الصلاة والسلام أم لهم نصيب من الملك يعني الإمامة والخلافة قال ونحن الناس الذين عنى الله 

From Al-Baqir (blessings be upon and him and peace)  "Do they have share in the authority" it means the Leadership (Imammate) and Caliphate, and he said we are the people that Allah meant.

 

Akhi this contradicts any logic and reasoning regarding Shirk. Shirk is making partnership to Allaah and the Qur'an is 100% clear on this with nothing else associated with it. Equating disagreeing with the Shi'i concept of wilayah to Shirk makes no sense whatsoever, Wilayah is rulership of the Muslims how is that like Allaah's oneness? Very stupid narrarion. Also if it were such a grave sin how come you can only find at the maximum 3 verses that could be seen as referring to Imamah while Shirk and its gravity is seen as a theme throughout the whole Qur'an in almost every chapter.

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2 hours ago, Ibn Matta said:

Yes but akhi its not about how you see it, its about how the Qur'an and Sunnah sees it. The Qur'an in particular is very clear that Shirk is simply creating partners with Allaah through Ibadah. 

Akhi that's how I see it in the quran as well. Ibada too for me means to give priority or obedience to any other than Allah. By obeying others we worship them as obeying Allah is a waseela and waseela is ibada. That's my interpretation anyway.

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4 hours ago, Ibn Matta said:

Akhi this contradicts any logic and reasoning regarding Shirk. Shirk is making partnership to Allaah and the Qur'an is 100% clear on this with nothing else associated with it. Equating disagreeing with the Shi'i concept of wilayah to Shirk makes no sense whatsoever, Wilayah is rulership of the Muslims how is that like Allaah's oneness? Very stupid narrarion. Also if it were such a grave sin how come you can only find at the maximum 3 verses that could be seen as referring to Imamah while Shirk and its gravity is seen as a theme throughout the whole Qur'an in almost every chapter.

Salam

This is not in the Sunni-Shia debate section so while Sunnis don't see Imammate in Quran, a Shia is very well how much Imammate has been emphasized in Quran.

The hadith of Imam Baqir is spot on specially if you read the context as I showed in the verses before, and the hadiths of the Imams open you up to the true recitations of Quran and the message of the Surahs by flow. Also another verse is clear that if we obey the Awliya of Satan, we are then Mushrikeen. This doesn't mean obeying them once or twice out of weakness, but refers to constant obedience to them.

And if we really think about it, the reason why Nuh's people worshiped gods aside from God was out of love of their leaders. And the love of their leaders was for love between themselves. And love between themselves was out of love of a false identity in themselves.

The biggest idol is that false self created by Satanic whispers and magic. Out of that idol people worshiped other idols.

In Suratal Bayana it said Ahlul-Kitab weren't ordered but to Worship God sincerely, and keep up Salah and give zakat and that is the upright religion.

However we see that sincerity in worship was through entering the door that God opened up for them through his chosen ones, mainly the Messengers after Musa in Bani-Israel.

They however followed their scholars and disobeyed the chosen ones. 

They replaced the Wilayah of Allah with that of men.  They didn't worship God sincerely but valued their leaders on par with God.

Had they valued obedience to God and his right of worship, they would of entered the door that God opened up for them and obeyed the chosen ones instead.

On the day of judgement, people will realize they didn't really care about the gods they set up with God, but were attached to their leaders, and for the sake of following their leaders they set up partners with God, and disbelieved in the absolute being.

So while they supposedly valued their gods on par with God, it was really due to the value of the Taghut which were their "Authorities" that took them out of the light to the darkness.

 

 

Edited by StrugglingForTheLight
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1 hour ago, peace seeker II said:

Akhi that's how I see it in the quran as well. Ibada too for me means to give priority or obedience to any other than Allah. By obeying others we worship them as obeying Allah is a waseela and waseela is ibada. That's my interpretation anyway.

that's not what Ibadah is, Ibadah is a type of obedience to Allaah, doing Ibadah for other than Allaah or through other than Allaah is shirk, nothing else. Wasilah is not ibadah no one who knows what Wasilah is says that, or anyone who knows what constitutes as Ibadah for that matter. Wasilah not a command from Allaah its a way of gaining intercession through Allaah. Akhi you're missing the point, 'Aqidah is not about your interpretation it is about what the texts tell us and/or their context

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20 minutes ago, Ibn Matta said:

 

that's not what Ibadah is, Ibadah is a type of obedience to Allaah, doing Ibadah for other than Allaah or through other than Allaah is shirk, nothing else. Wasilah is not ibadah no one who knows what Wasilah is says that, or anyone who knows what constitutes as Ibadah for that matter. Wasilah not a command from Allaah its a way of gaining intercession through Allaah. Akhi you're missing the point, 'Aqidah is not about your interpretation it is about what the texts tell us and/or their context

Wasila is literally a means to something, in this case it is to Allah. That's the definition of this term according to any Arab translation and it's not controversial. This means is ibada or a form of worship to me. Ibada is worship. 

 

In the quran Allah orders us to seek a wasilah (means) to Him, which constitutes an order.

 

I am telling you what the text says brother and how I interpret it. Now you've met someone with an alternative view from yours to the meanings of those words. 

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19 hours ago, StrugglingForTheLight said:

The context of the Shirk that doesn't forgive, is context of who we choose to follow and obey in Quran. 

The context shows the Taghut is all those followed who following is not following God. In Suratal Nisaa, that is the context of the verses. 

And our Imams make it clear those who take those to be followed other then those who God appoint have no share in the religion of submission to God.

People who value their fallible leaders over God to the extent they allow to teach teachings that contradict what they know for certain God doesn't teach, and make God the means to follow them, are doing an unforgivable shirk of worshipping the Taghut.

Of course, idols and what not, was always out of this intention. And it was all for self-identity, which is a false identity inspired by Satan.

Your definition is wrong. Taghut in terms of Hukm is about who you refer to not who you value because no one says that for example Sisi is greater than Allaah and the Anbiyyah. Just like how when al-Hajjaj bin Yusuf used to judge using tyrannical and kufri laws, no one said he is greater than Allaah and the Anbiyyah. The Salaf rebelled when he started giving himself attributes of Allaah. This verse explains what I mean

Surat an-Nisa, Verse 60:

Have you not seen those who claim to have believed in what was revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what was revealed before you? They wish to refer legislation to Taghut, while they were commanded to reject it; and Satan wishes to lead them far astray

ibn Kathir:

the Ayah has a general meaning, as it chastises all those who refrain from referring to the Qur'an and Sunnah for judgment and prefer the judgment of whatever they chose of falsehood, which befits the description of Taghut here.

So that's the first issue I have with your statement. Secondly your "context" of shirk that does not forgive doesn't exist any attempt at justification of that are polemics because shirk is clear cut and simple and all within the context of the verses I posted if you read around them properly. Allaah is talking about people who direct their worship to partners with Allaah end of story. To try and pin the name Taghut on a being or person makes no sense in many verses and is equivalent to intellectual fraud. Yes in some verses Taghut does refer to leaders who don't rule by Allaah's Shari'ah but to pin it to all of them is absurd for example

Surat al-Ma'idah, Verses 60

Say, "Shall I inform you of [what is] worse than that as penalty from Allah ? [It is that of] those whom Allah has cursed and with whom He became angry and made of them apes and pigs and slaves of Taghut. Those are worse in position and further astray from the sound way."

In this verse it can't be a man because it is talking about literal Ibadah is it uses the word slaves/worshippers (3abada) and this makes sense within the context because there is nothing about Hukm before or after.

Also notice how 5:44-47 never mentions shirk with regards to committing the minor Kufr (Ibn 'Abbas' tafsir) of not ruling by Allaah's Shari'ah

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On 4/10/2016 at 8:10 AM, StrugglingForTheLight said:

Salam

This is not in the Sunni-Shia debate section so while Sunnis don't see Imammate in Quran, a Shia is very well how much Imammate has been emphasized in Quran.

The hadith of Imam Baqir is spot on specially if you read the context as I showed in the verses before, and the hadiths of the Imams open you up to the true recitations of Quran and the message of the Surahs by flow. Also another verse is clear that if we obey the Awliya of Satan, we are then Mushrikeen. This doesn't mean obeying them once or twice out of weakness, but refers to constant obedience to them.

And if we really think about it, the reason why Nuh's people worshiped gods aside from God was out of love of their leaders. And the love of their leaders was for love between themselves. And love between themselves was out of love of a false identity in themselves.

The biggest idol is that false self created by Satanic whispers and magic. Out of that idol people worshiped other idols.

In Suratal Bayana it said Ahlul-Kitab weren't ordered but to Worship God sincerely, and keep up Salah and give zakat and that is the upright religion.

However we see that sincerity in worship was through entering the door that God opened up for them through his chosen ones, mainly the Messengers after Musa in Bani-Israel.

They however followed their scholars and disobeyed the chosen ones. 

They replaced the Wilayah of Allah with that of men.  They didn't worship God sincerely but valued their leaders on par with God.

Had they valued obedience to God and his right of worship, they would of entered the door that God opened up for them and obeyed the chosen ones instead.

On the day of judgement, people will realize they didn't really care about the gods they set up with God, but were attached to their leaders, and for the sake of following their leaders they set up partners with God, and disbelieved in the absolute being.

So while they supposedly valued their gods on par with God, it was really due to the value of the Taghut which were their "Authorities" that took them out of the light to the darkness.

Yes this is Thinker's discussion and I'm just questioning how logically you can accept this Ayaat as referring to Wilayah.

Your context is non-existent because linguistically to connect the licentiousness of the Jews (preceeding the verse) to shirk makes no sense linguistically because you can't create a partnership with Allaah for just sinning on its own it makes no sense. Rather if you actually read it properly all the way through you see that Shirk is not even the subject of this passage, it is talking about the evil of the Jews and why they fell out of favour with Allaah i.e. Shirk. Notice how Shirk is only really mentioned at the end and beginning of the next topic in the Surah hence why it is a repeated theme in the Qur'an. It is not talking about leadership or in anyway linking it to shirk and tawheed. Just to further prove my point here is an ayat from the passage

Surat an-Nisa, Verse 51

Have you not seen those who were given a portion of the Scripture, who believe in superstition and false objects of worship and say about the disbelievers, "These are better guided than the believers as to the way"?

See this clearly indicates that when it mentions Shirk is unforgivable it is referring to idolatry not leadership so that interpretation is Baatini.

Yes you're right in Surat al-Bayyinah they were commanded to do this only... Notice how it doesn't say they were commanded to follow an Imaam.

I could easily say you're doing the same thing by giving such power of legislation to Ahlulbayt when its not mentioned in the Qur'an that the family of the prophet (specifically) can be legislators of the Shari'ah and have such a huge part in the 'aqidah (family of Ibrahim doesn't count before you bring it up because that would include the whole Quraysh as well). Again I'm not looking for a Sunni-Shii debate I'm just questioning your view of shirk which is worrying if anything

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Salam

Ibn Matta, why does the Quran say people worshiped the Satan, when practically no one officially believes Satan is a god? Why does the Quran say some people take their desire as a god?

It's because they valued the uncleanness of Satan that was inspired by his forces in them, and hence worshiped him indirectly without knowing. It's because they valued that unclean self that was inspired from Satan and valued in on par or more then God.

I could care less if you see the context of the Shirk implying Shirk in Wilayah of Imams is Shirk in Wilayah of Allah which is Shirk in Worship, you can't even see Ulil-Amr are chosen Guides and leaders (ie. the family of Mohammad) despite the clear context, and the emphasis and comparision to the authority of the family of Abraham.  The hadiths confirm to me what is obvious to anyone who wants to recite Quran without preconceived conceptions by his community and scholars. The context is clear, other places, it talks about Shirk as in you don't make gods beside God, but here it's showing those who take leaders or make themselves leaders over those who God appointed are valuing those leaders or themselves over submission to God which is aka valuing others on par or more then God.

The issue to me, is what do we value most? We know it's easy to say I value God above all else such that nothing compares to my valuing God, but in reality, people value all sorts of things on par or more then God.

The real test of sincerity comes when we have to decide how do we submit to God and follow what he has revealed.  It's easy to use God's revelation to replace the Wilayah of Allah with that of men.  This is the path that Satan has always lead astray people in. 

The Quran is exposing the inward intention in all this has always been people take others are authorities other then God while following his chosen ones would be following God.

Sinning is forgiven as long as it's done while generally submitting to God and not opposing his wilayah, that is while believing in God's Ayat, and it's when it's simply a weakness. However we should fear our sins because they can turn it into a habit in which we value God very little and just claim we Worship him by lip service.  That is when world becomes what is desired rather then God and his pleasure, and the place of proximity to him (the hereafter), then we reach a contradiction. The world is not the physical world but rather it's that Satanic illusion people are caught up in. In short it is Satan but people don't perceive it.

God looks at what the hearts have earned,  if the words we say are confirmed by the tongue of the heart and it's actions, then they are meaningful to God. Otherwise, it's easy to deceive oneself truly values God above all else while in actuality preferring the Jibt and Taghut while using Allah as a means to confirm them.

When everything becomes about confirming our identity which is a product and born of Satan, then we worship Satan's illusion of who we are, we aren't even that which Satan makes us think of ourselves, rather it's his uncleanness that is causing this self oriented perception and tricking us is what we desire, that is why Quran says "Did I did take a covenant from you o children of Adam, not to worship Satan and Worship me, this is a straight path".

The religion with God is submission, when someone doesn't want to submit to God but rather make God the tool by which he justifies submission to fallible leaders, this is valuing people on par with God.

And this intention is all inspired by Satan whispering this unclean type of self-love, there is good type of self-love that God can inspire, adn then there is a type Satan inspires, the type Satan inspires is the type that makes yourself insincere to God, it makes you want to equate your value with that of God. You may not say it, but you act that way. And you love your leaders and your sect, because it's all part of how Satan creates this mentality of who you are.

The believers on the other hand love for the sake of God. Their love of the family of Mohammad is out of recognition of the status they have with God by clear proofs. They know them, and hence, love them not out the unclean spirit.

However even Anbiya can be made into a Taghut (false idol), which is why the Quran emphasizes "And it doesn't befit a mortal to be given the book, the authority, and the Prophethood, then to say "be Worshippers of me" but rather, say be Rabaniyeen by what you teach of the book and by what you study"

In short the way to avoid Worshipping a Prophet is to do come with knowledge of the divine sciences, become aware of his truth, studying the book and knowing it is true. Or otherwise, even following a Prophet without knowledge, would be worshiping him and putting on par with God. This is because the spirit is not to then submit to God but rather God is made the means to accept the Prophet. 

Which is why Quran emphasizes "and do not follow that which you have no knowledge of".

 

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How about worshiping money? Many people do that. 

On 3/26/2016 at 11:26 PM, Enlightened Follower said:

My understanding of Shirk is when we set up idols or blindly follow celebrities and products and deify them

How about worshipping money?  Many people do that. 

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Imam as-Sadiq(‘a) said:

لَيْسَت الْعِبادَةُ كَثرَةُ الصَّلوٰةِ وَ الصَّوْمِ، إِنَّما العِبادَة التَّفَكُّرُ في أَمر اللهِ.

“Worship {‘ibadah} is not excessive praying and fasting. Verily, worship is reflection on the handiwork of Allah.”13
Reflection that makes human beings better acquainted with God has been regarded as an act of worship.

It is stated in a hadith, thus:

رَكْعَتانِ مِنْ عالِمٍ خَيْرٌ مِنْ سَبْعِينَ رَكْعَةً مِنْ جاهِلٍ.

“Two rak‘ahs {cycles or units} of prayer of a scholar {‘alim} are better than seventy rak‘ahs of prayer of an ignorant person {jahil}.”

The Messenger of Allah (S) said: “What is accepted in prayer is that which is performed or recited on the basis of reflection and consciousness.”


It is thus stated in another hadith:

أَلْمُتِعَبِّدُ عَلىٰ غَيْرِ فِقْهٍ كَحِمار الطّاحونةِ.

“He who worships without understanding and discernment is like the donkey of a mill but does not advance.”

http://www.al-islam.org/radiance-secrets-prayer-muhsin-qaraati/worship-%E2%80%98ibadah

Edited by S.M.H.A.
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وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَا مِنْ رَسُولٍ إِلَّا لِيُطَاعَ بِإِذْنِ اللَّهِ ۚ وَلَوْ أَنَّهُمْ إِذْ ظَلَمُوا أَنْفُسَهُمْ جَاءُوكَ فَاسْتَغْفَرُوا اللَّهَ وَاسْتَغْفَرَ لَهُمُ الرَّسُولُ لَوَجَدُوا اللَّهَ تَوَّابًا رَحِيمًا {64}

[Shakir 4:64] And We did not send any messenger but that he should be obeyed by Allah's permission; and had they, when they were unjust to themselves, come to you and asked forgiveness of Allah and the Messenger had (also) asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah Oft-returning (to mercy), Merciful.


[Pickthal 4:64] We sent no messenger save that he should be obeyed by Allah's leave. And if, when they had wronged themselves, they had but come unto thee and asked forgiveness of Allah, and asked forgiveness of the messenger, they would have found Allah Forgiving, Merciful.


[Yusufali 4:64] We sent not a messenger, but to be obeyed, in accordance with the will of Allah. If they had only, when they were unjust to themselves, come unto thee and asked Allah's forgiveness, and the Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah indeed Oft-returning, Most Merciful.

Qur'an Surah 4 Verse 64. There is no issue of Shirk-When Prophet Muhammad[pbuhahp] among the Muslims.

Most Qur'anic verses of idol worship and other arguments come down to Dead/ Alive issues [some other minor issues /details after this initial Dead/Alive issue] 

There are two Major schools of thought[with some mini schools inside each]

Group [1] Dead- six feet under- History.

Group [2] Alive-

-Existence before appearing in this Physical World/left the material world/earth / True existence continues]-Our limitations we can't physically see the next step.

My understanding is that - people agree that if the Hujjah of Allah[awj][Proof of Allah[awj] is present  among us- As per Qur'an 4:64 . Whatever word is used to describe the activity [Ask/Call upon/Dua/invocation/worship/supplication etc..] No issue of Shirk.

In the absence of the Hujjah of Allah[awj] - Group 1 claim is Shirk.

As a Layman, I want to ask the members, Is my understanding of the issue Correct or am I missing something?

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[Pickthal 19:15] Peace on him the day he was born, and the day he dieth and the day he shall be raised alive!

[Pickthal 19:29] Then she pointed to him. They said: How can we talk to one who is in the cradle, a young boy?
[Pickthal 19:30] He spake: Lo! I am the slave of Allah. He hath given me the Scripture and hathappointed me a Prophet,
[Pickthal 19:31] And hath made me blessed wheresoever I may be, and hath enjoined upon me prayer and almsgiving so long as I remain alive,
[Pickthal 19:32] And (hath made me) dutiful toward her who bore me, and hath not made me arrogant, unblest.
[Pickthal 19:33] Peace on me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive!

*****

What is your understanding of Surah 19, verses 15 & 33. 

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وَقُلِ اعْمَلُوا فَسَيَرَى اللَّهُ عَمَلَكُمْ وَرَسُولُهُ وَالْمُؤْمِنُونَ ۖ وَسَتُرَدُّونَ إِلَىٰ عَالِمِ الْغَيْبِ وَالشَّهَادَةِ فَيُنَبِّئُكُمْ بِمَا كُنْتُمْ تَعْمَلُونَ {105}

[Pickthal 9:105] And say (unto them): Act! Allah will behold your actions, and (so will) His messenger and the believers, and ye will be brought back to the Knower of the Invisible and the Visible, and He will tell you what ye used to do.
[Pooya/Ali Commentary 9:105]

"Act. Allah sees your deeds, and His messengers, and the believers." Allah sees and knows the hidden and the manifest, the known and the unknown. So also the Holy Prophet is aware of every action-how, when and where it is carried out, in every age, through out the world. He is a witness over all people till the day of resurrection (Nisa: 41, Nahl: 84 and 89). This verse also says that there are some believers who have been entrusted and endowed with the same divine quality to witness the deeds of all men, at all times, in all places. They are those who, like the Holy Prophet, have been thoroughly purified (Ahzab: 33).

Imam Jafar bin Muhammad as Sadiq said:

"Deeds of the believers are witnessed by the Imam of the age. Good deeds give him joy and satisfaction and bad deeds grieve him. Blessed are the believers who please their Imam."

Aqa Mahdi Puya says:

This verse is in continuation of verse 103. The believers referred to in this verse are those successors mentioned in verse 55 of an Nur.

http://quran.al-islam.org/

Discussed here

http://www.al-islam.org/media/spiritual-struggle-karbala-muharram-1433-part-6

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I as a Layman, with limited Islamic knowledge have come to a conclusion, that this propaganda of Shirk and Kufr against the followers of the Teachers/Master  of Real Tawheed is a form of psychological warfare of the worst kind. As it endangers our brothers and sisters around the world who are been killed.

 

As internet is a faceless environment, and screen names can have many lives and many motives. We should try to ascertain some basic information on the beliefs of the screen name leveling these Serious/Sensitive charges against us. Which the current [Iblis] Satanic  force , [Kufr in the cloak of Islam] ISIS will utilize against us.  If a screen name is presenting his/herself as a Shia Muslim.

 

Test would be to ask the Shirk/Kufr/Worst Sin whatever terminology is given to the act of Iblis. Is the worst form of shirk/kufr/Sin. If so, when Allah[awj] says to obey the Prophet Muhammad[pbuhahp]. We see a clear manifestation of hidden shirk/kufr/Worst sin, in the disobedience of the Will of Allah[awj]. Does this person, equally and openly call this as Shirk/kufr/Worst Sin.

 

If not, why are we taking instruction, education from a person, who is either him/herself engaged in the worst Sin, or party to it.


Your thoughts?

 

https://www.al-islam.org/ghadir/incident.htm

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You mean, The idol of Obedience of Self, The idol of Pride, The idol of Love, The idol of Family, The idol of Money, The idol of Power, The idol of Influence

Any and All things/activities/thoughts,  if they hinder you from the remembrance of Allah[awj], and take you away from the straight path.

*****

Unless it is a means, by which Allah[awj] brings about a desired result. Shirt is a means or the original source? 

اذْهَبُوا بِقَمِيصِي هَٰذَا فَأَلْقُوهُ عَلَىٰ وَجْهِ أَبِي يَأْتِ بَصِيرًا وَأْتُونِي بِأَهْلِكُمْ أَجْمَعِينَ {93}

[Shakir 12:93] Take this my shirt and cast it on my father's face, he will (again) be able to see, and come to me with all your families.
[Pickthal 12:93] Go with this shirt of mine and lay it on my father's face, he will become (again) a seer; and come to me with all your folk.
[Yusufali 12:93] "Go with this my shirt, and cast it over the face of my father: he will come to see (clearly). Then come ye (here) to me together with all your family."

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إِذْ قَالَ اللَّهُ يَا عِيسَى ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ اذْكُرْ نِعْمَتِي عَلَيْكَ وَعَلَىٰ وَالِدَتِكَ إِذْ أَيَّدْتُكَ بِرُوحِ الْقُدُسِ تُكَلِّمُ النَّاسَ فِي الْمَهْدِ وَكَهْلًا ۖ وَإِذْ عَلَّمْتُكَ الْكِتَابَ وَالْحِكْمَةَ وَالتَّوْرَاةَ وَالْإِنْجِيلَ ۖ وَإِذْ تَخْلُقُ مِنَ الطِّينِ كَهَيْئَةِ الطَّيْرِ بِإِذْنِي فَتَنْفُخُ فِيهَا فَتَكُونُ طَيْرًا بِإِذْنِي ۖ وَتُبْرِئُ الْأَكْمَهَ وَالْأَبْرَصَ بِإِذْنِي ۖ وَإِذْ تُخْرِجُ الْمَوْتَىٰ بِإِذْنِي ۖ وَإِذْ كَفَفْتُ بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ عَنْكَ إِذْ جِئْتَهُمْ بِالْبَيِّنَاتِ فَقَالَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا مِنْهُمْ إِنْ هَٰذَا إِلَّا سِحْرٌ مُبِينٌ {110}

[Shakir 5:110] When Allah will say: O Isa son of Marium! Remember My favor on you and on your mother, when I strengthened you I with the holy Spirit, you spoke to the people in the cradle and I when of old age, and when I taught you the Book and the wisdom and the Taurat and the Injeel; and when you determined out of clay a thing like the form of a bird by My permission, then you breathed into it and it became a bird by My permission, and you healed the blind and the leprous by My permission; and when you brought forth the dead by My permission; and when I withheld the children of Israel from you when you came to them with clear arguments, but those who disbelieved among them said: This is nothing but clear enchantment.
[Pickthal 5:110] When Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Remember My favour unto thee and unto thy mother; how I strengthened thee with the holy Spirit, so that thou spakest unto mankind in the cradle as in maturity; and how I taught thee the Scripture and Wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel; and how thou didst shape of clay as it were the likeness of a bird by My permission, and didst blow upon it and it was a bird by My permission, and thou didst heal him who was born blind and the leper by My permission; and how thou didst raise the dead by My permission; and how I restrained the Children of Israel from (harming) thee when thou camest unto them with clear proofs, and those of them who disbelieved exclaimed: This is naught else than mere magic;
[Yusufali 5:110] Then will Allah say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount My favour to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the holy spirit, so that thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught thee the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel and behold! thou makest out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and thou breathest into it and it becometh a bird by My leave, and thou healest those born blind, and the lepers, by My leave. And behold! thou bringest forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee when thou didst show them the clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: 'This is nothing but evident magic.'

*****

["Abul Hasan Ali b. Ahmad al-Dallal al-Qummi narrates: ‘Among the Shias there was a difference of opinion on whether Allah has delegated creation and distribution of sustenance to the Imams (a.s.).

One group argued that this is impossible because no one can create the bodies except Allah, while the other group believed that Allah has delegated the power of creation and distribution of sustenance to the Imams (a.s.) and therefore they can create and provide sustenance. This disparity intensified with every passing day.

Finally someone suggested: ‘Why don’t you refer the matter to Abu Ja’far Muhammad b. ‘Uthman Amri (r.a.) so that he clarifies the truth for you? He is the representative of Imam az-Zaman (a.t.f.s.).’ Everybody agreed. The query was written and delivered to Muhammad b. ‘Uthman (r.a.). He referred the matter to Imam az-Zaman (a.t.f.s.).

In reply, he received a Tawqee wherein Imam (a.t.f.s.) had written:

Undoubtedly only Allah creates the bodies and distributes the sustenance. He neither has a body nor does He assume any form and there is none like Him. He is the All-Hearing and All-Knowing and the infallible Imams (a.s.) seek from Him and He Himself creates. They request Him and He accepts their request and to honour and elevate them He delegates to them the power to create and sustain."]

https://www.al-islam.org/special-deputies-association-imam-al-mahdi/second-special-deputy-muhammad-b-‘uthman-b-sa’eed-amri-ra

*****

The issue of delegation and creation, comes up a lot. It maybe there's some confusion among the Shia’s, like the Shia’s of the past as mentioned above. We can’t effectively answer this question to other Muslims, if we are not clear and still confused /divided.

Maybe there is a conceptual or terminology issue or some mixed variation of it. That leads to misunderstanding.

Kindly, review material provided and provide Authentic Traditions[ English. Sources/links] to clarify any misunderstanding.

Layman.

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In reference to the last post, Some additional information was posted here, by members.

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235039326-wilayah-takwiniyah/

 

*****
Qur'an 13:16

“Say: Who is the Lord of the heavens and the earth? Say: Allah. Say: Do you take then besides Him guardians who do not control any profit or harm for themselves? Say: Are the blind and the seeing alike? Or can the darkness and the light be equal? Or have they set up with Allah associates who have created creation like His, so that what is created became confused to them? Say: Allah is the Creator of all things, and He is the One, the Supreme.”

This Verse is used against us, Allamah Muhammad Tabatabai, explains it in detail. 
http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235039326-wilayah-takwiniyah/?page=3#comment-2929773

 

 

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Correct me if my Layman understanding is wrong.

In the beginning some people said verbal Shahada(Testified to the faith) for various reason(s), They believed in many gods, so if you can not beat them join them mentality prevailed, especially after the conquest of Mecca.

They looked at Islam as a political force, and joined it. All they had to do is to verbally (superficially) say their is one God. They never intend to acknowledge the Prophet Muhammad(peace be upon him and his progeny). We know that there were various occasions, where Qur’an informs us of hypocrites. And a constant theme is to Obey the Messenger, to take what he gives you, come to him for forgiveness. This was a Test to expose them, Like Iblis was exposed, Iblis was a worshiper but his hypocrisy was exposed.

Islam was later hijacked, and these elements went on paying lip service while they did their best  to undermine the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him and his progeny) and Ahlul Bayt(as).

“Shirk” (grave worship/partners/invocations, attack on Wilayat of Amir al-Muminin(Commander of the Faithful), Imam al-Muttaqeen(Leader of the Pious), Hujjah of Allah(awj)(Proof of Allah(awj), Mawla Ali ibn Abi Talib(as). Through innovative techniques etc…)is a  weapon used by them today to create doubts , to continue their evil plan of separating the Prophet  Muhammad (peace be upon him and his progeny) and Ahlul bayt(as) from Islam. Only God is their slogan, which fools the lay people, but their God is not the Lord of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him and his progeny) and Ahlul Bayt(as). So, they continue to put forward their version of the political Islam(government) and govern as they please and manipulate the verses in the book to justify it. The message is been corrupted and the humans in this world are been driven away from the Message due to their vicious action(s) around the world.


Your thoughts?

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Few Concepts that need to be clear before we can even start talking about Shirk/Bidah/Worship 

1) Need to understand a very important point.

imam- to a non Shia of Ali(as) usually mean their 4 Jurists- four Sunni schools(Islamic jurisprudence) (Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi'i, Hanbali). or A Friday prayer leader.

*****

2) What is his/her understanding of the Mawla

وَإِذْ أَخَذَ اللَّهُ مِيثَاقَ النَّبِيِّينَ لَمَا آتَيْتُكُمْ مِنْ كِتَابٍ وَحِكْمَةٍ ثُمَّ جَاءَكُمْ رَسُولٌ مُصَدِّقٌ لِمَا مَعَكُمْ لَتُؤْمِنُنَّ بِهِ وَلَتَنْصُرُنَّهُ ۚ قَالَ أَأَقْرَرْتُمْ وَأَخَذْتُمْ عَلَىٰ ذَٰلِكُمْ إِصْرِي ۖ قَالُوا أَقْرَرْنَا ۚ قَالَ فَاشْهَدُوا وَأَنَا مَعَكُمْ مِنَ الشَّاهِدِينَ {81}

[Shakir 3:81] And when Allah made a covenant through the prophets: Certainly what I have given you of Book and wisdom-- then an messenger comes to you verifying that which is with you, you must believe in him, and you must aid him. He said: Do you affirm and accept My compact in this (matter)? They said: We do affirm. He said: Then bear witness, and I (too) am of the bearers of witness with you.
[Pickthal 3:81] When Allah made (His) covenant with the prophets, (He said): Behold that which I have given you of the Scripture and knowledge. And afterward there will come unto you a messenger, confirming that which ye possess. Ye shall believe in him and ye shall help him. He said: Do ye agree, and will ye take up My burden (which I lay upon you) in this (matter)? They answered: We agree. He said: Then bear ye witness. I will be a witness with you.
[Yusufali 3:81] Behold! Allah took the covenant of the prophets, saying: "I give you a Book and Wisdom; then comes to you a messenger, confirming what is with you; do ye believe in him and render him help." Allah said: "Do ye agree, and take this my Covenant as binding on you?" They said: "We agree." He said: "Then bear witness, and I am with you among the witnesses."

*****

مَا كَانَ مُحَمَّدٌ أَبَا أَحَدٍ مِنْ رِجَالِكُمْ وَلَٰكِنْ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ وَخَاتَمَ النَّبِيِّينَ ۗ وَكَانَ اللَّهُ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمًا {40}

[Shakir 33:40] Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but he is the Messenger of Allah and the Last of the prophets; and Allah is cognizant of all things.
[Pickthal 33:40] Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is the messenger of Allah and the Seal of the Prophets; and Allah is ever Aware of all things.
[Yusufali 33:40] Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things.

*****

Relevant part of the Verse:

النَّبِيُّ أَوْلَىٰ بِالْمُؤْمِنِينَ مِنْ أَنْفُسِهِمْ ۖ وَأَزْوَاجُهُ أُمَّهَاتُهُمْ ۗ }

[Shakir 33:6] The Prophet has a greater claim on the faithful than they have on themselves, .....
[Yusufali 33:6] The Prophet is closer to the Believers than their own selves, .......

[Yusufali 33:6] The Prophet is closer to the Believers than their own selves, 

*****

At Ghadir Khumm, 

"Then the Messenger of Allah continued: 

"Do I not have more right over the believers than what they have over themselves?"  

People cried and answered: 

"Yes, O' Messenger of God."

Then followed the key sentence denoting the clear designation of 'Ali as the leader of the Muslim ummah.  The Prophet held up the hand of 'Ali and said: 

"For whoever I am his Leader (mawla), 'Ali is his Leader (mawla)."

https://www.al-islam.org/ghadir/incident.htm

At Ghadir Khum, Question was asked(33:6), Muslims Answered. Seal of the Prophets, and the Witness over ALL Prophets( 3:81).

Mawla here means what? 

Does this mean, Mawla only in delivering revelation?

What does More right over the Believers( All Past Prophets and believers present at Ghadir Khumm).

Now the question is What is his/he understanding of the Mawla ? 

1) Messenger, only in Delivering Revelation. Rest, only a human like us, others an have better judgement,  opinions in leadership,preserving Quran, etc..

2) Messenger, but Book of Allah(awj)  is sufficient for us

3) Mawla in All comprehensive and Complete sense. (Prophet/Messenger/Imam-Khaliftullah Vicegerent of Allah(awj) without limitation of time and space - All my affairs- as Islam is the same as our Nature, as its a Way of life not only a personal relationship with  Allah(awj). 

*****

3)

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235049482-tawassul-and-istigatha/?page=4&tab=comments#comment-3049559

 

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As salaamun aleikum, 

A recent event happened that a very knowledgeable and respected sister (I will refer to her as Sister X) explained to me as being a type of shirk.

A young girl was being tutored in the Islamic way by Sister X. She was being taught akham, aklaq, etc. After some time of being tutored and learning many practical dos and donts of our religion, the young girl comes to her tutoring session and begins to share a recent experience she had had at a sleepover.

She explains that another little girl had brought 2 kittens to the sleepover and everyone there had fun playing with the kittens, however, when salaat time approached and the girls were called to  make wudhu and pray, all the little girls were covered in cat hair-not just a few hairs here and there, which acording to some marja is acceptable, but covered in hair.

The little girl explained to the mother in charge of the sleepover that Sister X. taught her that praying with cat hair invalidates the salaat, to which the mother responded: "Well, Sister X is too religious"... Too religious? These are the rules of our religion, extrapolated from the Holy Quran and ahadith of the chosen Messenger of Allahسُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى  How is someone "too religious" if they are merely passing on the information of our religion? As muslims, our responsibility is to move forward and progress in our Islam, not to become content and complacent with where we are in our practice. 

Anyhow,

When someone makes there own understanding equal to and on par with Allahsسُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى, this is a form of shirk. As if we are able to determine what is good, bad or acceptable on our own..Many of us have seen where humans end up when we do such a thing. As Muslims, we SUBMIT ourselves to Allahسُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى and His program for our lives.

Of course, there are many ways of comitting shirk, but this is one of the more hidden ways that is not overtly obvious, and many people will not think and reflect on their behavior to realize this is what they are doing.

And just a small note here since i have described a very specific occurence, in the event that any of the people involved in the sleepover happen to read this, rest assured i do not know your identity nor the identity of the children involved. Sister X would never divulge such information to me as that would be a breach of trust and backbiting, but if she is able to anonymously  use such an event as a means of teaching, it should be used for good as a teaching point, and  in sha Allah, it will help to educate people, such as it has me.

W/s

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I have noticed, People claim something or act  is "Shirk". With out defining or explaining what they understand ' Shirk" to be. 

Either people  will directly say its Shirk or Things like, I don't think this is 'Shirk" or people say its "Shirk" but i don't think it is or I do not  define it as such etc.... - what does this all mean. All I see is, this word is repeated either directly or with a wrapper- still its the same - pointing the mind to the same this- keeping it alive 

We never ever ask, or insist that these people who repeat this word like they have OCD. to define their concept/ understanding of the word. 

People follow the command and  just fetch the ball, and usually that is what's going on and the rinse and repeat cycle continues. 

If we are accused of something, let the people actually make a case by defining the charge. 

So, to the many who have been using it,  can you at least give your understanding of what you are charging us with? 

Layman

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هُوَ الَّذِي أَرْسَلَ رَسُولَهُ بِالْهُدَىٰ وَدِينِ الْحَقِّ لِيُظْهِرَهُ عَلَى الدِّينِ كُلِّهِ وَلَوْ كَرِهَ الْمُشْرِكُونَ {9}

[Shakir 61:9] He it is Who sent His Messenger with the guidance and the true religion, that He may make it overcome the religions, all of them, though the polytheists may be averse.
[Pickthal 61:9] He it is Who hath sent His messenger with the guidance and the religion of truth, that He may make it conqueror of all religion however much idolaters may be averse.
[Yusufali 61:9] It is He Who has sent His Messenger with Guidance and the Religion of Truth, that he may proclaim it over all religion, even though the Pagans may detest (it).

هُوَ الَّذِي أَرْسَلَ رَسُولَهُ بِالْهُدَىٰ وَدِينِ الْحَقِّ لِيُظْهِرَهُ عَلَى الدِّينِ كُلِّهِ وَلَوْ كَرِهَ الْمُشْرِكُونَ {33}

[Shakir 9:33] He it is Who sent His Messenger with guidance and the religion of truth, that He might cause it to prevail over all religions, though the polytheists may be averse.
[Pickthal 9:33] He it is Who hath sent His messenger with the guidance and the Religion of Truth, that He may cause it to prevail over all religion, however much the idolaters may be averse.
[Yusufali 9:33] It is He Who hath sent His Messenger with guidance and the Religion of Truth, to proclaim it over all religion, even though the Pagans may detest (it).

وَعَدَ اللَّهُ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا مِنْكُمْ وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ لَيَسْتَخْلِفَنَّهُمْ فِي الْأَرْضِ كَمَا اسْتَخْلَفَ الَّذِينَ مِنْ قَبْلِهِمْ وَلَيُمَكِّنَنَّ لَهُمْ دِينَهُمُ الَّذِي ارْتَضَىٰ لَهُمْ وَلَيُبَدِّلَنَّهُمْ مِنْ بَعْدِ خَوْفِهِمْ أَمْنًا ۚ يَعْبُدُونَنِي لَا يُشْرِكُونَ بِي شَيْئًا ۚ وَمَنْ كَفَرَ بَعْدَ ذَٰلِكَ فَأُولَٰئِكَ هُمُ الْفَاسِقُونَ {55}

[Shakir 24:55] Allah has promised to those of you who believe and do good that He will most certainly make them rulers in the earth as He made rulers those before them, and that He will most certainly establish for them their religion which He has chosen for them, and that He will most certainly, after their fear, give them security in exchange; they shall serve Me, not associating aught with Me; and whoever is ungrateful after this, these it is who are the. transgressors.
[Pickthal 24:55] Allah hath promised such of you as believe and do good work that He will surely make them to succeed (the present rulers) in the earth even as He caused those who were before them to succeed (others); and that He will surely establish for them their religion which He hath approved for them, and will give them in exchange safety after their fear. They serve Me. They ascribe no thing as partner unto Me. Those who disbelieve henceforth, they are the miscreants.
[Yusufali 24:55] Allah has promised, to those among you who believe and work righteous deeds, that He will, of a surety, grant them in the land, inheritance (of power), as He granted it to those before them; that He will establish in authority their religion - the one which He has chosen for them; and that He will change (their state), after the fear in which they (lived), to one of security and peace: 'They will worship Me (alone) and not associate aught with Me. 'If any do reject Faith after this, they are rebellious and wicked.

*****

Who are these Polytheists, Idolaters and Pagans?

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Quote

1] Ash-hado an la ilaha illAllah

(I bear witness that there is no God But Allah)

Wahdahoo la shareeka lah

(The one, Who has no Partner)

Wa ash-hado anna Muhammadun abdohoo wa Rasoolullah…..

(and I bear witness that Muhammad is His Slave and Messenger.

Ash-hado an Aliyun Waleeullah, Wasi-o-Rasoolilah

(I bear witness that Ali is the Wali of Allah, rightful executor of the Will of the Prophet)

Question, which part of the above testimony of Faith is not clear? 

Specially, when 

Adhan[ Call to Prayer], from Shia Muslim Mosques, repeat the Three testimony of Faith-Five times a Day for All to hear.

Quote

Allahu Akbar... ... ...... . (Allah is great)

Ash hadu an la ilaha illal lah . . . . . . . . . . (I testify that there is no deity but Allah)

Ash hadu anna Muhammadan Rasu lul lah . . . . . . . : . . (I testify that Muhammad is Allah's Messenger)

Ash hadu anna Amirul Muminina'Aliyyan Waliyyullah ……..(i.e. I testify that the Commander of the Faithful Imam Ali (Peace be on him) is the wali/vicegerent of Allah)

 

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On 1/15/2016 at 2:40 AM, S.M.H.A. said:

Bismillah, ar-Rahman, ar-Rahim

AsSalaamu Alaykum,

 

If you can define, “ Shirk” and what actually constitutes Shirk, based on your understanding of the term Shirk.

ws,

Layman.

This reminds me on an incident I heard.

Once a man from far came to one of the oppressors in the time of a masoom(asws) probably 6th Imam.

He asked the oppressor as oppressor was the khalifa of that time so he asked the oppressor, I have read your Quran and it states .

إِنَّ اللَّهَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ

Sureky Allah is Ever-Determiner over everything.

Chapter 2, Part of verse 109.

He said so your LORD is 'Qaadir' over everything.

The oppressor khalifa said yes.

Then he asked a question that since your LORD is 'Qaadir' over everything, Can he make another 'Allah'?.

The khalifa told to his soldiers to immediately behead him. (The old trick of those Khalifas you know).

So this man started laughing, the khalifa asked him I have just ordered my soldiers to behead you and you are laughing?

The Guy replied, I am laughing because I know I will die but the Question will remain forever irrespective.

So now khalifa decided to hold the matter and reach at the door of Aal(asws) e Mohammad(saww) 

(You know how they used to do all the time when in need).

So khalifa's people reached at the door of masoom(asws) Imam(asws) and told him the matter and asked him to come.

Imam(asws) agreed and he(asws) went with them.

So the Guy asked him the same question. And subhanALLAH the beauty of Aal(asws) e Mohammad(asws).

Imam(asws) replied: You talk about 'one more Allah', If my Allah would wish he could make thousands of Allah but all of them would remain as 'Makhlooq' only.

------

If anybody can remind me which Masoom's(asws) story is though, I will be thankful.

@Salsabeel @ShiaMan14 @Ashvazdanghe @Sirius_Bright @starlight @Ruqaya101 @3wliya_maryam @SIAR14 @Hameedeh @Darth Vader @Qa'im

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Watch form 15min to 30min

Tawheed- Not only Oneness- its scope is much larger and deeper. Saqifa, Fadak, Karbala would not have happened if they understood what Tawheed really meant. 

Your Opinion on this subject of restricted definition of Shirk and  Tawheed. Is it the cause of all our issues? 

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