Jump to content
StrugglingForTheLight

Coincidence? 12 number in Quran.

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

15 minutes ago, Sunnibro said:

Also, I find it strange that you are calling nabuwwah to be higher than Imamat. When in fact, Shias consider the other way round. I find that you are switching the concepts conveniently.

 

6 minutes ago, أبو فاطمة المحمدي said:

As for your claim that Shi'ah consider nubuwwah to be superior to Imamah, you apparently do not understand the context of our arguments. In terms of Shahadah, IN OUR UMMAH, the Nubuwwah of Prophet Muhammad is superior to the Imamah of ANY Imam since the start of creation till the Day of al-Qiyamah. When we make the Shahadah, we testify only about the Nubuwwah of Muhammad, and then the Imamah of the Imams. That was the context of that statement.

But you have to admit @Sunnibro is right regarding the station of Imamah being higher than the station of Nabuwwah and Risalah.

i was also confused but i never knew it for sure that was the case among the Shi`i Muslims regarding the Status of Imamah. i think this topic deserves a separate thread of it`s own. 

http://www.al-islam.org/shia-rebuts-sayyid-rida-husayni-nasab/question-35-why-station-imamate-higher-than-prophethood

Edited by Student_of_Deen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Student_of_Deen said:

 

But you have to admit @Sunnibro is right regarding the station of Imamah being higher than the station of Nabuwwah and Risalah.

i was also confused but i didn`t know that was the case among the Shi`i Muslims regarding the Status of Imamah. i think this topic deserves a separate thread of it`s own. 

http://www.al-islam.org/shia-rebuts-sayyid-rida-husayni-nasab/question-35-why-station-imamate-higher-than-prophethood

Imamah and risalah are of varying degrees. For instance, the Imamah of Prophet Ibrahim is different from that of Imam al-Mahdi, 'alaihima al-salam. The same goes for nubuwwah. A prophet sent to a small village is not at the same level as a prophet sent to a continent, who also is not at the same level as a person sent to the whole universe. Some levels of nubuwwah are superior to some levels of Imamah, and vice versa. It is not as simple as you guys think.

If you want a separate thread on that, you can open it too. The more, the merrier.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, أبو فاطمة المحمدي said:

Imamah and risalah are of varying degrees. For instance, the Imamah of Prophet Ibrahim is different from that of Imam al-Mahdi, 'alaihima al-salam. The same goes for nubuwwah. A prophet sent to a small village is not at the same level as a prophet sent to a continent, who also is not at the same level as a person sent to the whole universe. Some levels of nubuwwah are superior to some levels of Imamah, and vice versa. It is not as simple as you guys think.

If you want a separate thread on that, you can open it too. The more, the merrier.

well i already said i didn`t know about this before so i got no clue whether it`s simple or complicated. but very well, it will be interesting to discuss it in a detailed thread In`sha Allah,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salam

Student of the deen, emphasizing on the kingdom of Sulaiman has not contextual flow. It would not flow with Ulil-Amr or the envied people and the grace upon them. 

But say for the sake of argument, that descendants of Ibrahim were meant here, in Auli-Ibrahim, all of them...should it not be interpreted it's telling them then that why don't they accept similarly authority in Mohammad and his offspring, or be emphasizing that Mohammad and the Ulil-Amr are from Auli-Ibrahim (ie. I personally believe they are separate chosen families, like the long salawat  shows but I will argue on agreed terms).

A great authority here obviously would refer to what has comparison to the envied people, and be what the Ulil-Amr was given. Given that the chosen authority of God given to Ibrahim and his descendants is of much more value, it would surely refer to that. 

Worldly authority surely cannot be this grace in which Pharaoh also had.

The fact you say it probably refers to the kingdom of Sulaiman just shows to me how clear the link is between the divine authority of the family of Ibrahim to the Rasool and Ulil-Amr, and that people want to hide the flow to the people like they do their most to hide hadithal thaqalain from the masses.

Go back to the post I posted about Talut which showed some important facts about this issue as well.

 

Edited by StrugglingForTheLight

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also another thing to note, is the verses after emphasize "of them who believed in it and of them who turned away form it" showing the great mulk of Auli-Ibrahim is about Wilayah, obedience owed to them, in which 4:59 begins by emphasizing "..obey God..." which shows the basis of that obedience and why turning away from it resulted in hell.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not being dishonest. Isn't denying nubuwaah negating a part of the shahada? Isn't it the same thing? How can one then still be called a Muslim?

Quote

You do not need to get dishonest, brother. Just remain calm and ask what you do not understand. And, by the way, I am still waiting for your response in the tahrif thread.

Quote

 

The Qur'an has made it clear that it was only a false testimony:

إِذَا جَاءَكَ الْمُنَافِقُونَ قَالُوا نَشْهَدُ إِنَّكَ لَرَسُولُ اللَّهِ وَاللَّهُ يَعْلَمُ إِنَّكَ لَرَسُولُهُ وَاللَّهُ يَشْهَدُ إِنَّ الْمُنَافِقِينَ لَكَاذِبُونَ

When the hypocrites come to you they say, ´We bear witness that you are indeed the Messenger of Allah.´ Allah knows that you are indeed His Messenger and Allah bears witness that the hypocrites are certainly liars.

Qur'an 63:1

 

Are you sure this verse was revealed because of Abdullah b. Ubay?

Quote

As for your claim that Shi'ah consider nubuwwah to be superior to Imamah, you apparently do not understand the context of our arguments. The Nubuwwah of Prophet Muhammad is superior to the Imamah of ANY Imam or the nubuwwah of any prophet since the start of creation till the Day of al-Qiyamah. When we make the Shahadah, we testify only about the Nubuwwah of Muhammad, and then the Imamah of the Imams. We Shi'ah also believe that without the Nubuwwah of the Prophet, there would have been no Imamah of the Twelve Imams; and without Tawhid of Allah, there would have been no Nubuwwah of the Prophet. That was the context of that statement.

It wasn't my claim! In fact, I claimed that Shias consider Imamat to be higher than nubuwwah. You said nubuwwah is superior to imamat. This was a general statement you made. So anybody reading it will under in its general sense, not specifically as you explained later on.

By the way, do you consider that the Prophet also had Imamah? Was this station of Imamh higher than his station of nubuwwah?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3-1-2016 at 8:52 PM, StrugglingForTheLight said:

 The word Astafa is used 12 verses in its different forms. In one verse it occurs twice.

[2:130] [2:132] [2:247] [3:33] [3:42] - twice. [7:144] [22:75] [27:59] [35:32] [37:153] [39:4]

Imam is also used 12 times.

[2:124] [9:12] [11:17] [15:79] [17:71] [21:72] [25:74] [28:5] [28:41] [32:23] [36:12] [46:12]

The word Al-Qurba is used 12 Times in Quran, in 11 verses (it occurs twice in one verse):

http://www.holyquran.net/cgi-bin/qsearch.pl?st=%C7%E1%DE%D1%C8%EC&sc=1&sv=1&ec=114&ev=6&ae=a&mw=&alef=ON

Musa and Harun names mentioned in the same verse occurs 12 Times while Harun names occurs 20 times. Suratal Taha where Harun name is mentioned before Musa in "Lord of Harun and Musa" is the 20th Surah while the other two places, Musa is mentioned first.

http://www.holyquran.net/cgi-bin/qsearch.pl?st=%E5%C7%D1%E6%E4&sc=1&sv=1&ec=114&ev=6&ae=&mw=r&alef=ON

Given the promise to Ibrahim about Imammate in his offspring, it is noteworthy to mention as well Ismael name occurs 12 times in Quran:

2:125 2:127 2:133 2:136 2:140 3:84 4:163 6:86 14:39 19:54 21:85 38:48

Verse 12 of Suratal Maeeda reminds of 12 Captains in bani-Israel.

Imam Ali was appointed on the 12th month of the year.

Then you have this topic: http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235033793-confirmation-of-ghayba-of-12th-imam/#comment-2872658

Which has "unseen" in Quran 12 times. And that associated with muflihoon, that word muflihoon takes place 12 times in Quran.

In the 12th Surah of Quran, ghayb occurs twice, in the story of Yusuf.

Not saying this means anything. Not saying it doesn't either. Something to reflect about, that's all.

 

I believe Allah loves to work with math.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Sunnibro said:

Are you sure this verse was revealed because of Abdullah b. Ubay?

Yes, it was.

Quote

By the way, do you consider that the Prophet also had Imamah? Was this station of Imamh higher than his station of nubuwwah?

Let me explain it this way:

1. The nubuwwah of Prophet Muhammad covered the whole universe, and covered all the humans and jinns of his time till the end of the world. So, he is still the Prophet of our time, despite having died 1400 years ago.

2. The Imamah of Imam Ja'far was for the entire earth only, and was for the people living during his time. After his death, the Imamah shifted to another Imam. So, today, Imam Ja'far is not the Imam of our time.

Imam Ja'far inherited the Imamah of the Prophet, while no one can inherit his nubuwwah (which is still continuing).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, أبو فاطمة المحمدي said:

Let me explain it this way:

1. The nubuwwah of Prophet Muhammad covered the whole universe, and covered all the humans and jinns of his time till the end of the world. So, he is still the Prophet of our time, despite having died 1400 years ago.

2. The Imamah of Imam Ja'far was for the entire earth only, and was for the people living during his time. After his death, the Imamah shifted to another Imam. So, today, Imam Ja'far is not the Imam of our time.

Imam Ja'far inherited the Imamah of the Prophet, while no one can inherit his nubuwwah (which is still continuing).

Thank you for explaining brother. I still need clarification. From what I understand, the Prophet's Imamah shifted to the shia Imams and thus they inherited it. Of course, they cannot inherit his nubuwwah because there is no nabi after the Prophet.

From what you said, I can now understand that the Prophet's nubuwwah was superior to any of the Imams' Imamah.

What I'm still perplexed about is the rank of Imamah and nubuwwah of the Prophet himself. I feel that my question was not answered, thus again: Do shias believe that the Imamah of the Prophet was superior to his nubuwwah?

Besides, I also require your assistance on this:

Quote

Isn't denying nubuwaah negating a part of the shahada? Isn't it the same thing? How can one then still be called a Muslim?

Please help me understand these issues more clearly. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Sunnibro said:

Thank you for explaining brother. I still need clarification. From what I understand, the Prophet's Imamah shifted to the shia Imams and thus they inherited it. Of course, they cannot inherit his nubuwwah because there is no nabi after the Prophet.

From what you said, I can now understand that the Prophet's nubuwwah was superior to any of the Imams' Imamah.

What I'm still perplexed about is the rank of Imamah and nubuwwah of the Prophet himself. I feel that my question was not answered, thus again: Do shias believe that the Imamah of the Prophet was superior to his nubuwwah?

Besides, I also require your assistance on this:

Please help me understand these issues more clearly. 

Are you kidding me?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, أبو فاطمة المحمدي said:

Yes, it was.

Let me explain it this way:

1. The nubuwwah of Prophet Muhammad covered the whole universe, and covered all the humans and jinns of his time till the end of the world. So, he is still the Prophet of our time, despite having died 1400 years ago.

2. The Imamah of Imam Ja'far was for the entire earth only, and was for the people living during his time. After his death, the Imamah shifted to another Imam. So, today, Imam Ja'far is not the Imam of our time.

Imam Ja'far inherited the Imamah of the Prophet, while no one can inherit his nubuwwah (which is still continuing).

i couldn`t help but ask if the Imamam of Imam Jafar (ra) was for the entire earth then does it mean his Imamah was greater than the Nabuwwah of all those Prophets like Yunus, Shuayb, Hud and other Prophets (peace and blessings be upon them all) who were sent for the guidance of 1 nation on earth? 

Quote

What I'm still perplexed about is the rank of Imamah and nubuwwah of the Prophet himself. I feel that my question was not answered, thus again: Do shias believe that the Imamah of the Prophet was superior to his nubuwwah?

brother @Sunnibro after reading an article on Al-Islam.com and also reading posts on a thread about this topic, i can confirm your question and your doubts are totally valid. 

http://www.al-islam.org/shia-rebuts-sayyid-rida-husayni-nasab/question-35-why-station-imamate-higher-than-prophethood

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/14786-nubuwwah-and-imamah/

Edited by Student_of_Deen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Student_of_Deen said:

i couldn`t help but ask if the Imamam of Imam Jafar (ra) was for the entire earth then does it mean his Imamah was greater than the Nabuwwah of all those Prophets like Yunus, Shuayb, Hud and other Prophets (peace and blessings be upon them all) who were sent for the guidance of 1 nation on earth? 

Imamah is always for the entire earth. The case of Prophet Ibrahim, 'alaihi al-salam, is instructive:

1. As a prophet, his responsibility was only a small nation in the Middle East.

2. But, as an Imam, his responsibility was the whole of mankind alive at his time.

As they say, the higher the rank, the higher the responsibility.

Quote

 after reading an article on Al-Islam.com and also reading posts on a thread about this topic, i can confirm your question and your doubts are totally valid. 

http://www.al-islam.org/shia-rebuts-sayyid-rida-husayni-nasab/question-35-why-station-imamate-higher-than-prophethood

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/14786-nubuwwah-and-imamah/

When a prejudiced fellow decides not to understand clear matters, or lacks the capability to, there is little help we can render.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, أبو فاطمة المحمدي said:

Imamah is always for the entire earth. The case of Prophet Ibrahim, 'alaihi al-salam, is instructive:

1. As a prophet, his responsibility was only a small nation in the Middle East.

2. But, as an Imam, his responsibility was the whole of mankind alive at his time.

As they say, the higher the rank, the higher the responsibility.

you already explained Imamah with the example of Prophet Ibrahim (peace be upon him). he was a Prophet as well as a Messenger with his own revelation and law. 

i asked you about Prophets like Yunus (peace be upon him) who was assinged the responsibility of conveying the Message of Allah to the people of Nineveh or Prophet Sulayman (peace be upon him) who was made responsible for the people in his kingdom or Prophet Lot (peace be upon him) who was made responsible for warning & conveying the message of Allah to the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah ?

36 minutes ago, أبو فاطمة المحمدي said:

When a prejudiced fellow decides not to understand clear matters, or lacks the capability to, there is little help we can render.

check the 2 links i provided then decided whether it`s prejudice or genuine doubts. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Student_of_Deen said:

you already explained Imamah with the example of Prophet Ibrahim (peace be upon him). he was a Prophet as well as a Messenger with his own revelation and law.

So, which part of it exactly is unclear to you?

Your low comprehension skills have been very unhelpful in your discussions (and sometimes, accusations). Maybe I should ask you this way:

1. Allah sends Zayd to Egypt. His responsibility is only the people of Egypt.

2. Allah also sends 'Amr to Africa as a whole. His responsibility is all the nations and peoples of Africa, including Egypt.

3. At the same time, Allah further sends 'Awf to the whole world. His responsibility is all the nations and people of the world, including all of those in Africa.

Do you seriously think Zayd, 'Amr and 'Awf, in this hypothesis, have the same ranks? If your answer is "yes", then explain how? If your answer is "no", then explain how.

Maybe this method will make you understand the discussion.

Edited by أبو فاطمة المحمدي

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, أبو فاطمة المحمدي said:

So, which part of it exactly is unclear to you?

Your low comprehension skills have been very unhelpful in your discussions (and sometimes, accusations). Maybe I should ask you this way:

18 hours ago, Student_of_Deen said:

i couldn`t help but ask if the Imamam of Imam Jafar (ra) was for the entire earth then does it mean his Imamah was greater than the Nabuwwah of all those Prophets like Yunus, Shuayb, Hud and other Prophets (peace and blessings be upon them all) who were sent for the guidance of 1 nation on earth? 

16 hours ago, Student_of_Deen said:

i asked you about Prophets like Yunus (peace be upon him) who was assigned the responsibility of conveying the Message of Allah to the people of Nineveh or Prophet Sulayman (peace be upon him) who was made responsible for the people in his kingdom or Prophet Lot (peace be upon him) who was made responsible for warning & conveying the message of Allah to the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah ?

 

if your comprehension skills are so superior then how exactly did you failed to understand my question twice ? i`m asking you whether the Imamah if Imam Jafar is greater than the Nabuwwah of the Anbiyah i mentioned above in my question. 

if yes then does that mean the Imams are even higher in rank then the Anbiyah (Alayhis salatus salaam) who were sent for the guidance of 1 nation ?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Student_of_Deen said:

if your comprehension skills are so superior then how exactly did you failed to understand my question twice ? i`m asking you whether the Imamah if Imam Jafar is greater than the Nabuwwah of the Anbiyah i mentioned above in my question. 

if yes then does that mean the Imams are even higher in rank then the Anbiyah (Alayhis salatus salaam) who were sent for the guidance of 1 nation ?

 

When you answer my simple questions, I will answer yours. I cannot be struggling with your weak comprehension skills, while you refuse attempts to help you.

These are the simple questions again:

1. Allah sends Zayd to Egypt. His responsibility is only the people of Egypt.

2. Allah also sends 'Amr to Africa as a whole. His responsibility is all the nations and peoples of Africa, including Egypt.

3. At the same time, Allah further sends 'Awf to the whole world. His responsibility is all the nations and people of the world, including all of those in Africa.

Do you seriously think Zayd, 'Amr and 'Awf, in this hypothesis, have the same ranks? If your answer is "yes", then explain how? If your answer is "no", then explain how.

Edited by أبو فاطمة المحمدي

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4-1-2016 at 0:19 PM, Student_of_Deen said:

okay let`s just agree for the sake of argument that it`s not a coincidence but still is there anything in the Holy Quran which proves the concept of Immamah is infact true & a pillar of Islam and those who do not believe in it are not Muslims ?

Salam, 

Why not believe in it? I mean .. After the revelation of the Torah numerous prophets were sent to Bani Israel. I do not see why after the revelation of the Holy Quran God would stop sending guides to mankind. Maybe imams and not prophets but still ..

Honestly I'd found it not normal if this time anything is diffirent. The Quran is showing us patters that repeat on and on in the course of history.

Edited by Skanderbeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, أبو فاطمة المحمدي said:

Are you kidding me?

I'm genuinely confused on the way you have presented or perhaps I'm not conveying myself clearly. I assume that the deficiency is in my conveyance.

My confusion comes from the following issue: When Sunnis ask Shias to prove Imamah, they quote the verse 2:124 to prove that the rank of Imamah was granted after Prophet Ibrahim was already a Prophet. Through this, it is then understood that the rank of Imamah is superior to that of Nubuwwah. [Please correct me if I'm wrong].

Since, the holy Prophet (s) is the best of all the past Prophets, it can also be understood that he held the position of Imamah and Nubuwwah. The fact that he also held two ranks (just like Prophet Ibrahim), isn't it logical to derive that his rank of Imamah is superior to his Nubuwwah (which is consistent with the reasoning from 2:124?)

What you have mentioned about the Prophet's nubuwwah and Imamah, is in terms of their scope of continuity and inheritance. It does not seem to address the point of the superiority of one over another.

Please clarify my doubts, dear brother.

:ws:

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sunnibro said:

I'm genuinely confused on the way you have presented or perhaps I'm not conveying myself clearly. I assume that the deficiency is in my conveyance.

My confusion comes from the following issue: When Sunnis ask Shias to prove Imamah, they quote the verse 2:124 to prove that the rank of Imamah was granted after Prophet Ibrahim was already a Prophet. Through this, it is then understood that the rank of Imamah is superior to that of Nubuwwah. [Please correct me if I'm wrong].

Since, the holy Prophet (s) is the best of all the past Prophets, it can also be understood that he held the position of Imamah and Nubuwwah. The fact that he also held two ranks (just like Prophet Ibrahim), isn't it logical to derive that his rank of Imamah is superior to his Nubuwwah (which is consistent with the reasoning from 2:124?)

What you have mentioned about the Prophet's nubuwwah and Imamah, is in terms of their scope of continuity and inheritance. It does not seem to address the point of the superiority of one over another.

Please clarify my doubts, dear brother.

:ws:

 

Okay, let me explain in more details now.

As I mentioned, Imamah is of varying degrees, just as Nubuwwah is also in varying degrees.

Some prophets were sent only to a small town. That is the capacity of their nubuwwah. Whereas, some prophets were sent to a whole nation. This was the capacity of their own nubuwwah. Apparently, the nubuwwah with the higher capacity is superior to the nubuwwah with the lower capacity. So, a prophet sent to a nation is superior in rank to a prophet sent to a small town.

Prophet Ibrahim, 'alaihi al-salam, was sent to his nation, the Canaanites. This was the capacity of his nubuwwah. But, later, Allah appointed him an Imam for all living human beings at his time. Now, the gap between his nubuwwah and his Imamah was very wide. It is like if the king of Qatar - a tiny statelet - becomes the king of the Asia - including China, Japan and others. Clearly, his bigger office is superior to his smaller office. This is a matter of simple logic:

1. Ibrahim as a prophet was only responsible for Canaanites in a small part of the Middle East.

2. Ibrahim as an Imam was responsible for the whole of humanity, living in Africa, Asia, Europe, the Americas, Australia and others.

Naturally, his office of Imamah was bigger and far wider than his office of nubuwwah, and therefore was vastly superior to it. Prophets like Musa and 'Isa were also Imams, in addition to their nubuwwah and risalah, as can be deduced from many ahadith.

An Imam typically is responsible for the whole earth, and no prophet before Muhammad, sallallahu 'alaihi wa aalihi, was responsible for more than his nation. So, Imamah was always superior to nubuwwah BEFORE the rise of the Prophet.

The nubuwwah of Prophet Muhammad was very different from that of all the other prophets. He was made responsible for all the worlds - the earth, the planets, the entire universe and beyond. The gap between his nubuwwah and that of Prophet Ibrahim, for instance, is immeasurable. Unlike the previous nubuwwahs, Allah also made jinns the responsibility of Prophet Muhammad. Besides, Muhammad was responsible, not just for the people of his time, for also for the billions that will be born till the Day of al-Qiyamah. Now, let me draw this simple table:

1. As a prophet, Muhammad was responsible for the entire universe (not just this earth), and for all human beings and jinns till the end of time.

2. As an Imam, he was responsible for the earth alone, and for all humans and jinns alive at his time alone.

You can see that his nubuwwah was vastly superior to his Imamah. There is no rank even near the nubuwwah of the Prophet in status. Meanwhile, the Imams of the Ahl al-Bayt, 'alaihim al-salam, only inherited his Imamah, which was limited to this earth, and to humans and jinns. So, the nubuwwah of the Prophet is superior in all ways to their Imamah. Then, their Imamah is superior to those of the other Imams before them (except Muhammad) because they are also responsible for the jinns of the earth, in addition to humans. The previous Imams were only responsible for humans.

I hope this is clear now. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by أبو فاطمة المحمدي

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, أبو فاطمة المحمدي said:

When you answer my simple questions, I will answer yours. I cannot be struggling with your weak comprehension skills, while you refuse attempts to help you.

These are the simple questions again:

1. Allah sends Zayd to Egypt. His responsibility is only the people of Egypt.

2. Allah also sends 'Amr to Africa as a whole. His responsibility is all the nations and peoples of Africa, including Egypt.

3. At the same time, Allah further sends 'Awf to the whole world. His responsibility is all the nations and people of the world, including all of those in Africa.

Do you seriously think Zayd, 'Amr and 'Awf, in this hypothesis, have the same ranks? If your answer is "yes", then explain how? If your answer is "no", then explain how.

i don`t understand what is the need to throw this question at me when i can clearly see the point you are trying to make by it. My English comprehension and writing skills are bad because i`m not from an English speaking country nor my education was in English but that doesn`t mean i`m dumb. 

No Zayd, `Amr and `Awf do not share the same ranks as their responsibilities are different in size. 

 

Edited by Student_of_Deen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...