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Sumerian

Speaking with opposite gender [Internet]

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15 hours ago, certainclarity said:

There is no joke in Islam.

only witty talks within the boundry of Adab, which is called Mezah in arabic. 

Mezah is more in the lines of light humor.This is allowed.

The equalivent to jokes ,which is common amongst people in Arabic is called Mazhakeh ( jokes that make fun of people including lies ) .

Which is not Islamically allowed.

This is not extreme, this is following proper balanced ,guideline, without appearing too serious or too silly. This is what mezah is about.

Some want to be closer to the Ahlulbayt in action, some are not that bothered.

So it all depends, on what level of Taqwa you are currently at and what level you want to achieve within the frame work of what the Ahlul bayt have prescribed for each level of Islam.

 

 

 

What about satire?

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9 hours ago, Son of Placid said:

It's like Certainclarity says about common sense in this crazy world.

Social media can be a dangerous playground. 

I joined a graphic chat site with a buddy, (many years ago) because it was open source and learned lots about design. Found out the site was more of a meat market, no mods, no boundries.

I have seen people meet online, talk open, then in private, and within a week declare an undying love for one another, and by the end of the month they hate each other because one of them is in love with someone else.

I once had a chat with what I assumed was a nice lady. Nice chat, no banter, just a social exchange, and showed her some of the things we were working on. The next day I'm supposed to be her lover. I went over that conversation a couple times to see where she might have gotten such an idea and saw nothing. Then I apparently broke her heart. You don't always have to flirt to get yourself in a jam. 

Like they say, it's all fun and games until someone buys an airline ticket. I once drove 300 klms to another city to pick up an 18 yr old boy who flew up from Kansas to meet some girl who didn't show. It was an embarassing and boring week for him. At least he's back in Kansas, found a girl, got married, has three kids now and we don't talk about the past. 

:shock:

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So if sites like ShiaMeet are not halal because they allow texting and exchanging between the sexes, how are people expected to select spouses. If you cannot talk online, talk in person about marriage? How do you pick a spouse? Do you just pick a number out of a hat and go "okay, I guess Ali is my husband"???

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10 hours ago, Son of Placid said:

It's like Certainclarity says about common sense in this crazy world.

Social media can be a dangerous playground. 

I joined a graphic chat site with a buddy, (many years ago) because it was open source and learned lots about design. Found out the site was more of a meat market, no mods, no boundries.

I have seen people meet online, talk open, then in private, and within a week declare an undying love for one another, and by the end of the month they hate each other because one of them is in love with someone else.

I once had a chat with what I assumed was a nice lady. Nice chat, no banter, just a social exchange, and showed her some of the things we were working on. The next day I'm supposed to be her lover. I went over that conversation a couple times to see where she might have gotten such an idea and saw nothing. Then I apparently broke her heart. You don't always have to flirt to get yourself in a jam. 

Like they say, it's all fun and games until someone buys an airline ticket. I once drove 300 klms to another city to pick up an 18 yr old boy who flew up from Kansas to meet some girl who didn't show. It was an embarassing and boring week for him. At least he's back in Kansas, found a girl, got married, has three kids now and we don't talk about the past. 

Spot on!! The 2nd last paragraph made me laugh till my ribs ached!:grin:

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1 hour ago, LeftCoastMom said:

^ didn't most of you meet your spouses somewhere in real life?

I was a convert, so I met my spouse because he is the one who gave me information. Most converts who are not from Muslim families usually have to look online to find someone

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On 12/18/2015 at 0:20 PM, HayderM said:

It may be haram or not, but if true then tons of western muslims are so screwed you cant even be a normal kid unless you talk to the opposite gender which may involve jokes sometimes. Just to point this out, if you live in the west id suggest you dont take this rule incredibly seriously otherwise it will affect you and your self-esteem around people. As long as your not going to sin (touching etc.) or look at the opposite gender in a lustful way you'll be fine.

You hit it dead on. 

You need to use common sense and be able to calibrate these fatwa depending on culture and circumstances. 

IMHO, there is no contradiction in fatwa. Sayyid Sistani(ha) is saying that you should not have 'open ended' conversations with the opposite gender. 

i.e. chatting, or idle chatter. This most of the time leads to sin. That is true, whether it is a big sin like adultry or a smaller sin like exciting lust without any physical action taking place. It is still sin. He is not saying you can never talk or communication with the opposite gender but the conversation should be goal based, for example

Your working at a job and you need to conduct meetings or give presentations in order to carry out the functions of your job. This talk or presentation is oriented toward accomplishing a business goal or task. Once the goal or task is accomplished, the conversation ends. This is not idle chat and is not haram

You are a mod on Shiachat and you have an issue with one of the members or something going wrong with the site. You discuss with female moderators in order to 'get to the bottom' of the issue and resolve the problem or maybe help out a member with a specific issue, provided you have the ability to help. Again, this is not idle chatter, this is focused and goal directed. Again, not haram. 

You know of a person of the opposite gender who may be a good fit for you for marriage. You open up a conversation with them with the specific goal of moving the relationship toward halal marriage. You state from the beginning of the conversation that you would like to marry them and you would like to see if this is possible. This is not haram (although I will probably get flac now for this), perfectly fine and brothers and sisters should be doing this. The catch is that your goal should be halal marriage and either you find out the marriage would be possible and move forward or if it is not possible, you end the conversation, interaction. 

So a large part depends on context and what your intention is. 

Edited by Abu Hadi

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This has been answered bro. I have spoken to many people in Arabic about this, they have repeated what you just said.

However, the problem here is "joking between genders" - is this haram or not? On his Arabic website, it explicitly says that it is haram and makes no condition (as far as I have seen).

Also, are marriage sites halal? According to the first fatwa I posted, it would seem no.

@Abu Hadi

Edited by The Batman

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4 hours ago, The Batman said:

This has been answered bro. I have spoken to many people in Arabic about this, they have repeated what you just said.

However, the problem here is "joking between genders" - is this haram or not? On his Arabic website, it explicitly says that it is haram and makes no condition (as far as I have seen).

Also, are marriage sites halal? According to the first fatwa I posted, it would seem no.

@Abu Hadi

"أتت عجوز إلى رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم فقالت: يا رسول الله ادع الله أن يدخلنى الجنة، فقال لها: يا أم فلان إن الجنة لا يدخلها عجوز، قال: فولت – المرأة – تبكى، فقال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم: أخبروها أنها لا تدخلها وهى عجوز، إن الله يقول: "إنا أنشاناهن إنشاء، فجعلناهن أبكاراً، عربا أتراباً" (الواقعة: 35-37).

this is one example of prophet's humor with an old lady who came to him asking him to ask Allah to make her enter Jannah, so prophet said : Jannah is not for old ladies, so the woman went away crying. Prophet asked the companions to went after her and tell her that the she will enter Jannah but Allah will return her young woman again.

 

This is a glimps of the prophet's manners. He was not dead wall. He was with light spirit, light heart and with humor. It is a sign of believer to be with such spirit.

The Haram joking between 2 genders is that the exceeds the adab and breach the gaol of hijab. Where there is nearness and friendshipness, when formality is broken, when some relation between the 2 strangers might be assumed by a passbyer.. Where Satan can enter and lure man that the woman attitude is a sign from her that she is inviting you ..where satan can lure woman that the man's manner is sign of him being either interested or "safe". where satan can make the passbeyr can think ill of the 2 laughing persoons.

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10 minutes ago, Chaotic Muslem said:

"أتت عجوز إلى رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم فقالت: يا رسول الله ادع الله أن يدخلنى الجنة، فقال لها: يا أم فلان إن الجنة لا يدخلها عجوز، قال: فولت – المرأة – تبكى، فقال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم: أخبروها أنها لا تدخلها وهى عجوز، إن الله يقول: "إنا أنشاناهن إنشاء، فجعلناهن أبكاراً، عربا أتراباً" (الواقعة: 35-37).

this is one example of prophet's humor with an old lady who came to him asking him to ask Allah to make her enter Jannah, so prophet said : Jannah is not for old ladies, so the woman went away crying. Prophet asked the companions to went after her and tell her that the she will enter Jannah but Allah will return her young woman again.

 

This is a glimps of the prophet's manners. He was not dead wall. He was with light spirit, light heart and with humor. It is a sign of believer to be with such spirit.

The Haram joking between 2 genders is that the exceeds the adab and breach the gaol of hijab. Where there is nearness and friendshipness, when formality is broken, when some relation between the 2 strangers might be assumed by a passbyer.. Where Satan can enter and lure man that the woman attitude is a sign from her that she is inviting you ..where satan can lure woman that the man's manner is sign of him being either interested or "safe". where satan can make the passbeyr can think ill of the 2 laughing persoons.

I never knew you were a mujtahida.

But can you explain this?

السؤال: هل الضحك والمزاح وتبادل النكت عبر الجوال او في المنتديات فيه محظور شرعي؟

 

الجواب: يجوز الا مع الجنس الاخر.

 

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8 minutes ago, The Batman said:

I never knew you were a mujtahida.

But can you explain this?

السؤال: هل الضحك والمزاح وتبادل النكت عبر الجوال او في المنتديات فيه محظور شرعي؟

 

الجواب: يجوز الا مع الجنس الاخر.

 

well, sorry to bother you then

my bad, I forgot I'm some low class.

peace.

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Off-Topic posts were removed. This is the Islamic Laws & Jurisprudence section of ShiaChat, which means members want to know Islamic Laws & Jurisprudence according to Shia beliefs. Members who are not Shia should create or reply to topics in other forums. Thanks.

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12 hours ago, Chaotic Muslem said:

"أتت عجوز إلى رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم فقالت: يا رسول الله ادع الله أن يدخلنى الجنة، فقال لها: يا أم فلان إن الجنة لا يدخلها عجوز، قال: فولت – المرأة – تبكى، فقال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم: أخبروها أنها لا تدخلها وهى عجوز، إن الله يقول: "إنا أنشاناهن إنشاء، فجعلناهن أبكاراً، عربا أتراباً" (الواقعة: 35-37).

this is one example of prophet's humor with an old lady who came to him asking him to ask Allah to make her enter Jannah, so prophet said : Jannah is not for old ladies, so the woman went away crying. Prophet asked the companions to went after her and tell her that the she will enter Jannah but Allah will return her young woman again.

 

This is a glimps of the prophet's manners. He was not dead wall. He was with light spirit, light heart and with humor. It is a sign of believer to be with such spirit.

The Haram joking between 2 genders is that the exceeds the adab and breach the gaol of hijab. Where there is nearness and friendshipness, when formality is broken, when some relation between the 2 strangers might be assumed by a passbyer.. Where Satan can enter and lure man that the woman attitude is a sign from her that she is inviting you ..where satan can lure woman that the man's manner is sign of him being either interested or "safe". where satan can make the passbeyr can think ill of the 2 laughing persoons.

:salam:

Very true,sister. No sooner are a ghair mahram man and woman together with noone else around than the Shaytan(la) is the third one of them.

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السؤال: نحن نعيش في منطقة منذ ثلاث سنوات وربطتنا مع جيراننا علاقة جورة طيبة فهل يجوز عند زيارتهم ان نجلس سوية رجال ونساء؟

الجواب: لا يجوز الاختلاط اذا احتمل ترتب المفسدة كما هو الحاصل كما لا يجوز المضاحكة والممازحة مع الرجال الاجانب.

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لجواب: لا يجوز الاختلاط اذا احتمل ترتب المفسدة كما هو الحاصل كما لا يجوز المضاحكة والممازحة مع الرجال الاجانب.

My Arabee skills aren't the best, but doesn't the bold part of the sentence above indicate that mixing/joking around--if there's probability that it leads to Mufsid (evil)--then it's not allowed?

(Sorry if I'm not supposed to be replying to this thread :blush: )

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On 12/23/2015 at 2:03 PM, Sumayyeh said:

لجواب: لا يجوز الاختلاط اذا احتمل ترتب المفسدة كما هو الحاصل كما لا يجوز المضاحكة والممازحة مع الرجال الاجانب.

My Arabee skills aren't the best, but doesn't the bold part of the sentence above indicate that mixing/joking around--if there's probability that it leads to Mufsid (evil)--then it's not allowed?

(Sorry if I'm not supposed to be replying to this thread :blush: )

Yes, this was a reply to ikhtliaat between men and women, it is haram if corruption it occurs.

The part after it then says "it is not allowed to laugh and joke with the non-mahram man and woman".

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