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FarazAbbbas

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Asalam, 

I have read through the previous threads regarding this issue. But I could not draw a conclusion regarding the question pertaining to sadaat or the shari'I criteria's to qualify as a syed.

My question is that why can't people whose mothers are from sadaat and are najeb ur turfayn but the fathers are from ghair sadaat be qualified to be Syeds. 

Didnt the sadaat start because of Bibi Zahra .s.a? 

Aren't the bibi's of ahlulbayt mahram to such children as they are their maternal aunts, grandmother's etc.

When you contact the marjae, for instance Agha Khamenie says that though they are the descendents of the prophet yet they can't be attributed as Syed's. 

I know what matters the most to Allah swt is a person's taqwa but still i want to be clear on the issue.

 

Also i have heard there are a few marajae who consider such people as Syed's.

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Salam.

Well, technically, you could also say: Since the prophet (s) declared Imam Hasan (a) and Hussain (a) his sons, the lineage would still be considered to be carried on by men.

Though, does that really matter? In the end, Zaynab's (a) children were as much the grandchildren of RasulAllah (s) as were her brothers'. A descendant of the prophet (s) through the mother would still be a descendant just without the label of a "Sayed" - which does neither benefit them nor those who are descendents through their fathers, if we are honest.

Besides, I think on the Judgment Day, everyone will be called by the name of their father hence, why you can't give an adopted kid your name as long as you know who the father is. So, that might also be a reason for the importance on the line being carried on by the father.

Ma`asalama.

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20 hours ago, FarazAbbbas said:

Asalam, 

I have read through the previous threads regarding this issue. But I could not draw a conclusion regarding the question pertaining to sadaat or the shari'I criteria's to qualify as a syed.

My question is that why can't people whose mothers are from sadaat and are najeb ur turfayn but the fathers are from ghair sadaat be qualified to be Syeds. 

Didnt the sadaat start because of Bibi Zahra .s.a? 

Aren't the bibi's of ahlulbayt mahram to such children as they are their maternal aunts, grandmother's etc.

When you contact the marjae, for instance Agha Khamenie says that though they are the descendents of the prophet yet they can't be attributed as Syed's. 

I know what matters the most to Allah swt is a person's taqwa but still i want to be clear on the issue.

 

Also i have heard there are a few marajae who consider such people as Syed's.

There are two independent issues :

1-practical rulings in Sharia which are jurisprudential laws about Sadat: these rulings are only about paternal relationship as you quoted from Sayed Khamenei:  "Although, descendants of The Holy Prophet through their mothers also considered as his descendants, the criterion for being a sayyid — as far as Shar‘ī rulings are concerned — is paternal relationship". 

The reason is that the merits of every ruling lies on its proof. Khums, for example, is divided into two parts one of which is devoted to the people who are Hashimi and Hashimi in Arabic is used for the paternal descendants of Hashim.

2- The dignity and honor of being the descendant of the Prophet is not devoted to the paternal Sayed. 

19 hours ago, FarazAbbbas said:

Asalam,

Yeah that''s right. But the essence of the sadaat lies with bibi fatima zahra s.a. right.

So a lineage which starts with a women ..then why can't it be carried on by women. 

 

 

19 hours ago, repenter said:

Technically speaking, as far as i know, sayyeds are offspring of Imam Hassan (a.s) and Imam Hussein (a.s) through their sons. Which again makes them offspring of Imam Ali (a.s) and Bibi Zahra (a.s). 

The criterion for being a sayed is to be the descendant of Hashim through the father or mother. Therefor the criterion is not the descendant of the Prophet, Sayea Fatimah, or Imams. 

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Bismillah.

Salaam.

 

The word “Seyyed” means “sir”, “honorable”, and “chief” [1] and when used by Shias and in Farsi it refers to those who descend from the prophet (p) through Lady Fatimah (a.s.). However, individuals that descend from Imam Ali (a.s.) through Abbas Ibn Ali, Mohammad Bin Hanafiyya, Jaʻfar Tayyār and Aqil are also called Seyyed as a means of respect.[2]

Respecting the Seyyeds from the Ahādiīh and the Quran’s perspective:

Islam respects all human beings, including non-Muslims, but it shows more respect for Muslims and believers, and from among the believers it has encouraged and emphasized on respecting the descendants of the prophet (p) and the progeny of Lady Fatimah (a.s.).

The verse of Mawaddah is one of the reasons behind such respect: “Say," I do not ask you any reward for it (Allah’s message) except love of my relatives (The Ahlul-Bayt).”[3] 

The main reason for such respect is the verse of Mawaddah which firstly covers the Ahlul-Bayt of the prophet, and also covers the Seyyeds, the progeny of Lady Fatimah (a.s.) and the descendants of the Imams (p).

In this verse, Allah (s.w.t.) commands the prophet (p) to tell the people to be friendly with his relatives and close ones, for this friendship is an example of respect.

Also, respecting the Seyyeds has been greatly encouraged in the Ahādiīh and on many occasions, some of which we will mention here:

1- The holy prophet (p) stated: “I will be the intercessor of four groups of people even if they come to the field of Mahshar with the sins of all other people added up together; those who help my children and offspring, those who grant from their wealth to the those of my children that are poor, those who show friendship towards them with their tongues and hearts and those who try to satisfy the needs of those of my children that are exiled or expelled.”[4]

2- The prophet said: “Honor the good of my children because of Allah and the bad of them because of me.”[5]

3- Imam Sadiq (p) said: “When the Day of Judgment comes, the announcer (Munādī) will call ‘O people! Be quiet for Muhammad will speak. Everyone will be quiet as the prophet moves and announces: O people! Whoever has done me a favor or good should come forward so that I return his favor. The people say: what favor or good have we done for you?  Instead the prophet and Allah have done these things for people. The prophet explains: whoever has given shelter to one of my children, done him good, given him clothes to cover himself or has given him food when he was hungry should come forward so that I return his favor. At this moment, the people who have done so stand up whereupon a voice from Allah calls: O Muhammad! My beloved one! I have left their reward to you. Place them in whichever part of paradise you wish. The prophet will place them in Wasīlah, a place where they can see the prophet and his Ahlul-Bayt.”[6]

However, this respect is a natural thing and a sign of having love and affection for the prophet. In other words, if someone loves another person, he will also have esteem and respect for those that are related to him. As a result, showing respect for the Seyyeds is a way of respecting the prophet and his aims and values.

The Seyyeds and other people in this world and the hereafter:

Despite the fact that the Seyyeds should be greatly respected due to their relationship with the prophet, but:

1- When it comes to Ahkām and religious duties all the of the prophet’s Ummah are equal and the Seyyeds are not privileged over others and no one is excused from not carrying out his religious obligations. All people, whether they are among the Seyyeds or not, are being tested at every moment by Allah and every person has his one set of deeds that he will be questioned for on the Day of Judgment.[7] 

2- Due to their relationship with the prophet, the Seyyeds have a greater responsibility in regard to carrying out the Ahkām and religious duties.[8]

 


[1] Qurashi, Seyed Ali Akbar, Qamuse Quran, vol. 3, pg. 350, Dar al-Kutub al-Islamiyyah, Tehran, Sixth Print, 1371 (solar calendar); Tirrihi, Fakhruddin, Majma’ al-Bahrain, vol. 3, pg. 71, Murtazavi Bookshop, Tehran, Third Print, 1375 (solar calendar); The Abjadi Arabic-Farsi Dictionary, pg. 507.

[2] Khamenei, Seyed Ali, Ajwibah al-Istiftaa’aat, pp. 216-217; Golpaygani, Seyed Muhammad Reza, Majma’ al-Masaa’il, vol. 1, pg. 392, Dar al-Quran al-Karim, Qom, Eighth Print, 1409 (AH).

[3] Shura: 23.

[4] Thiqah al-Islam Kuleini, Al-Kafi, vol. 4, pg. 60, Dar al-Kutub al-Islamiyyah, Tehran, 1365 (solar calendar).

[5] Thaqafi Tehrani, Muhammad, Tafsire Ravaane Jaavid, vol. 1, pg. 52, Burhan Publications, Tehran, Third Print, 1398 (AH).

[6] Wasaa’el al-Shia, vol. 16, pg. 333.

[7] Majma’ al-Masaa’el, vol. 1, pg. 393.

[8] Majma’ al-Masaa’el, vol. 1, pg. 393.

 

With Duas.

Narsis.

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On 16/12/2015 at 9:53 PM, mighdad said:

There are two independent issues :

1-practical rulings in Sharia which are jurisprudential laws about Sadat: these rulings are only about paternal relationship as you quoted from Sayed Khamenei:  "Although, descendants of The Holy Prophet through their mothers also considered as his descendants, the criterion for being a sayyid — as far as Shar‘ī rulings are concerned — is paternal relationship". 

The reason is that the merits of every ruling lies on its proof. Khums, for example, is divided into two parts one of which is devoted to the people who are Hashimi and Hashimi in Arabic is used for the paternal descendants of Hashim.

2- The dignity and honor of being the descendant of the Prophet is not devoted to the paternal Sayed. 

 

The criterion for being a sayed is to be the descendant of Hashim through the father or mother. Therefor the criterion is not the descendant of the Prophet, Sayea Fatimah, or Imams. 

Asalam, if it is so thencan such people use syed as a prefix before their name?

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On 16/12/2015 at 10:29 PM, narsis said:

Bismillah.

Salaam.

 

The word “Seyyed” means “sir”, “honorable”, and “chief” [1] and when used by Shias and in Farsi it refers to those who descend from the prophet (p) through Lady Fatimah (a.s.). However, individuals that descend from Imam Ali (a.s.) through Abbas Ibn Ali, Mohammad Bin Hanafiyya, Jaʻfar Tayyār and Aqil are also called Seyyed as a means of respect.[2]

Respecting the Seyyeds from the Ahādiīh and the Quran’s perspective:

Islam respects all human beings, including non-Muslims, but it shows more respect for Muslims and believers, and from among the believers it has encouraged and emphasized on respecting the descendants of the prophet (p) and the progeny of Lady Fatimah (a.s.).

The verse of Mawaddah is one of the reasons behind such respect: “Say," I do not ask you any reward for it (Allah’s message) except love of my relatives (The Ahlul-Bayt).”[3] 

The main reason for such respect is the verse of Mawaddah which firstly covers the Ahlul-Bayt of the prophet, and also covers the Seyyeds, the progeny of Lady Fatimah (a.s.) and the descendants of the Imams (p).

In this verse, Allah (s.w.t.) commands the prophet (p) to tell the people to be friendly with his relatives and close ones, for this friendship is an example of respect.

Also, respecting the Seyyeds has been greatly encouraged in the Ahādiīh and on many occasions, some of which we will mention here:

1- The holy prophet (p) stated: “I will be the intercessor of four groups of people even if they come to the field of Mahshar with the sins of all other people added up together; those who help my children and offspring, those who grant from their wealth to the those of my children that are poor, those who show friendship towards them with their tongues and hearts and those who try to satisfy the needs of those of my children that are exiled or expelled.”[4]

2- The prophet said: “Honor the good of my children because of Allah and the bad of them because of me.”[5]

3- Imam Sadiq (p) said: “When the Day of Judgment comes, the announcer (Munādī) will call ‘O people! Be quiet for Muhammad will speak. Everyone will be quiet as the prophet moves and announces: O people! Whoever has done me a favor or good should come forward so that I return his favor. The people say: what favor or good have we done for you?  Instead the prophet and Allah have done these things for people. The prophet explains: whoever has given shelter to one of my children, done him good, given him clothes to cover himself or has given him food when he was hungry should come forward so that I return his favor. At this moment, the people who have done so stand up whereupon a voice from Allah calls: O Muhammad! My beloved one! I have left their reward to you. Place them in whichever part of paradise you wish. The prophet will place them in Wasīlah, a place where they can see the prophet and his Ahlul-Bayt.”[6]

However, this respect is a natural thing and a sign of having love and affection for the prophet. In other words, if someone loves another person, he will also have esteem and respect for those that are related to him. As a result, showing respect for the Seyyeds is a way of respecting the prophet and his aims and values.

The Seyyeds and other people in this world and the hereafter:

Despite the fact that the Seyyeds should be greatly respected due to their relationship with the prophet, but:

1- When it comes to Ahkām and religious duties all the of the prophet’s Ummah are equal and the Seyyeds are not privileged over others and no one is excused from not carrying out his religious obligations. All people, whether they are among the Seyyeds or not, are being tested at every moment by Allah and every person has his one set of deeds that he will be questioned for on the Day of Judgment.[7] 

2- Due to their relationship with the prophet, the Seyyeds have a greater responsibility in regard to carrying out the Ahkām and religious duties.[8]

 


[1] Qurashi, Seyed Ali Akbar, Qamuse Quran, vol. 3, pg. 350, Dar al-Kutub al-Islamiyyah, Tehran, Sixth Print, 1371 (solar calendar); Tirrihi, Fakhruddin, Majma’ al-Bahrain, vol. 3, pg. 71, Murtazavi Bookshop, Tehran, Third Print, 1375 (solar calendar); The Abjadi Arabic-Farsi Dictionary, pg. 507.

[2] Khamenei, Seyed Ali, Ajwibah al-Istiftaa’aat, pp. 216-217; Golpaygani, Seyed Muhammad Reza, Majma’ al-Masaa’il, vol. 1, pg. 392, Dar al-Quran al-Karim, Qom, Eighth Print, 1409 (AH).

[3] Shura: 23.

[4] Thiqah al-Islam Kuleini, Al-Kafi, vol. 4, pg. 60, Dar al-Kutub al-Islamiyyah, Tehran, 1365 (solar calendar).

[5] Thaqafi Tehrani, Muhammad, Tafsire Ravaane Jaavid, vol. 1, pg. 52, Burhan Publications, Tehran, Third Print, 1398 (AH).

[6] Wasaa’el al-Shia, vol. 16, pg. 333.

[7] Majma’ al-Masaa’el, vol. 1, pg. 393.

[8] Majma’ al-Masaa’el, vol. 1, pg. 393.

 

With Duas.

Narsis.

Asalam, 

thank you so much for the detailed post. but my question was not pertaining to the fazilat of the sadaat . M question was whether people who'se mother are from the sadaat be called syed's or not, leaving aside the issue of khums.

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On ۱۳۹۴/۹/۲۷ ه‍.ش. at 0:31 AM, FarazAbbbas said:

Asalam, 

thank you so much for the detailed post. but my question was not pertaining to the fazilat of the sadaat . M question was whether people who'se mother are from the sadaat be called syed's or not, leaving aside the issue of khums.

The jurisprudential laws are only applicable to paternal Sayyeds.

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