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Khadim uz Zahra

Hot Seat: A Chat With ShiaChat

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Lol! Am I the guinea pig...or sacrificial lamb...what? 

I'm thinking of how some threads have turned out in here ( my poor Lynx!)

But I am still honored.

i'd like to see the people already mentioned, too. I think any of the admins, moderators would be good vict...umm..interviewees, including @DigitalUmmah himself. I also would like to nominate @starlight @Gaius I. Caesar @Ibn Sina@apofomysback @notmeAnd @Khadim uz Zahra ( right back at you!), assuming any of these folks are up for it. I also would like to hear from members I find interesting like  @coldcow @hasanhh @thuglife @Saintly_Jinn23 If they haven't been already interviewed in the past.

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5 minutes ago, LeftCoastMom said:

Lol! Am I the guinea pig...or sacrificial lamb...what? 

I'm thinking of how some threads have turned out in here ( my poor Lynx!)

But I am still honored.

i'd like to see the people already mentioned, too. I think any of the admins, moderators would be good vict...umm..interviewees, including @DigitalUmmah himself. I also would like to nominate @starlight @Gaius I. Caesar @Ibn Sina@apofomysback @notmeAnd @Khadim uz Zahra ( right back at you!), assuming any of these folks are up for it. I also would like to hear from members I find interesting like  @coldcow @hasanhh @thuglife @Saintly_Jinn23 If they haven't been already interviewed in the past.

 

lol I have been interviewed numerous times over the last decade on this site

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3 hours ago, LeftCoastMom said:

Lol! Am I the guinea pig...or sacrificial lamb...what? 

I'm thinking of how some threads have turned out in here ( my poor Lynx!)

But I am still honored.

i'd like to see the people already mentioned, too. I think any of the admins, moderators would be good vict...umm..interviewees, including @DigitalUmmah himself. I also would like to nominate @starlight @Gaius I. Caesar @Ibn Sina@apofomysback @notmeAnd @Khadim uz Zahra ( right back at you!), assuming any of these folks are up for it. I also would like to hear from members I find interesting like  @coldcow @hasanhh @thuglife @Saintly_Jinn23 If they haven't been already interviewed in the past.

 

I'm not that interesting.

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10 hours ago, Tonks said:

Marbles was already interviewed before though.

My point exactly!

We should focus on people who have not been interviewed before, esp those who have become active post-MDM interview thread. Everyone knows every thing worth knowing about old homies like myself :alberteinstein:

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9 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Thanks, I don't think I am worthy of an interview but I'm glad that you think otherwise.

Your modesty is one of your many virtues. However, please keep in mind there was more than one of us who wanted to " dedicate" to you in Magma's dedication thread. I think you are very " worthy" indeed...and inspiring, too! :clap:

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As I Messaged you...your intro makes me blush.:love5:

Since I'm not very good at wrangling this quote thingie, I will  try to answer your questions all down here.

1. " SG" is the initials of " Shia Gentleman" . He's my daughter's friend and possible future spouse. My daughter is sometimes referred to as " DD" (dear daughter? I actually didn't give her that but it works for me ).  Sorry you think it  it reads like a "CIA manuscript ". I haven't sent for my possible records under the FOIA so I don't know what one looks like. Lol.

2. " Wawinyangwacipi " is the Lakota word for their Sundance ceremony. I'm not and don't speak Lakota, so you'd have to take it up with them why their language is the way it is. I don't see it as any more formidable than Welsh ,say,though.

 

image.jpg

Edited by LeftCoastMom

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3. I feel fine being here. I'm glad the people here are so accepting. It appears that when you folks created this place, you wanted to enter into dialogue with people of other faiths and even provided forums for doing so...otherwise you would have made it a closed group. That said,I'm always mindful it isn't " my" space and don't say a lot of things I sometimes want to say or would say in another venue. Not sure how to increase diversity...probably by inviting others to take a look at this site or maybe referencing it when you folks do op-eds or other writings in real space or cyber-space. I just did an internet search after being dissatisfied with my library foray regarding the Shi'a. This seemed the most likely spot for getting my questions answered. I haven't been disappointed.

4. I love the good-heartedness and politeness of the folks here. Although I think there must be a million trepidations going through the heads of many readers regarding the relationship between DD and SG, everyone has been kind and caring towards them and me.  I was surprised no one threw a snit-fit over a non-Muslim outsider and a Shi'a getting involved. I had to laugh when several people ( think it was Abu Hadi first?) just up  and said " Why don't they get married?" Or something like that. No judgment...just acceptance of the relationship with a sort of Zen-like calm. Plus Shi'a seem to have a well-developed sense of humor and positive outlook on the world. Considering what is happening to you in some parts of it right now, I wonder how that is.


5. Can't think of anything I actually hate about SC. Some of the Shi'a customs I find difficult to understand and, as you know, one in particular I object to when it is used outside your community and that is temporary marriage done with non-Shi'a partners on a very short-term basis. I personally think it can be used to take advantage of women who aren't brought up with it. 

Another thing that irritates me is the reference to obviously secular Westerners as " Christians". Especially in the US,perhaps as opposed to Europe. there is less concept of " cultural" Christians. The US was founded as a secular nation. Around here, If someone calls him/herself a " Christian", it is usually because they actually profess and practice the faith ...in whatever form. And it's often  code for an evangelical,though others may use it. Catholics and others often will refer to themselves by denomination as well. If someone does not practice the Christian faith they usually don't refer to themselves as a Christian. So it's always an oxymoron to me when someone says they have a Christian that agrees to mutah. They either have a very lapsed Christian or someone they just think is Christian because they are a Westerner. If they aren't " real" Christians, does that make a difference in their being allowable to you? I also agree withColdCow  and others that I don't see Shi'a dads clamoring on here to line up their daughters for this sort of  arrangement. I think there is an attitude among some  that outsiders' daughters and families are somehow less valuable, less " human" or corrupt /less caring about each other just because they aren't Muslim. Or even Middle Eastern. And that the daughters of us outsiders are somehow fair game until the nice Muslim girl comes along. That's a disturbing lack of empathy. How would they like someone to be thinking that way about their sisters and daughters? Isn't religion supposed to make us more humane to and concerned about each other? 

Enough rant. Lol.

( I'm doing this in pieces because it turns out  I'm ferrying people around today...so please be patient with me!)

 

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6. I like both ( and am old enough to remember the start of Star Trek) but I'm more of a Star Wars person, I'm a sucker for epic tales and Star Wars pulls out all the tropes. Not sure they needed to do another set, though. I was happy the way it " ended" way back when.

7. I don't know DV well enough to compare him to any divine entity yet. I certainly hope he doesn't have the family issues Hephaestus did. (Game of Thrones caliber problems.)   But  he's a powerful being and I will try not to make him wroth with me. Pyroclastic fury is untidy and inconvenient.

 

8. There are natives, including my family, that answer to any or all of these names because the only truly proper way to refer to a native person is by his/her own tribe, preferably in the manner  they themselves do it. ( For example, according to my Lakota professor way back,most of the Allied Tribes of Lakota,Nakota,Dakota people will call themselves " Sioux " when speaking with outsiders because that's what they've been known by by settlers. But that's a French corruption of the word they were called by their traditional enemies , the Anishinaabe ...also themselves known as Chippewa or Ojibwe..and the Anishinaabe word was" Nidewasu"..".little  snakes" or some folks say " little snakes in the grass". So you sometimes ended up with your popular name being  what the neighboring tribes called you, which might not be very complementary.) 

for generic terns, however,

" Indian" is problematic because :India.

" Native American" is an issue because a lot of natives do not like " American" being in there. They consider themselves citizens of their tribes first and foremost and their native groups or nations are older than " America" anyway.

Many folks like the Canadian term " First Nations Peoples" ,but it hasn't gained much currency in the non-native community yet outside of Canada,

 

" Injun" is just slang. " Tribal" might work but there are lots of tribal folks all over the world, so it's not very specific.

" traditional", in native parlance, usually refers to the way a native believes and lives. A " traditional" follows the pre-contact ways as best as possible ( I don't like the term " pagan" much due to all the Euro-baggage that comes with it). Not all  natives are traditionals.

 

I usually just say " native people" and call myself " First Nations" or just " native" ,even though that can be confusing,too. Most non-natives seem to prefer saying "Native American". Best thing to do is ask the native person what she/he likes to be called if possible.

 

9. The movies or the characters ? Assuming characters ( I wasn't allowed to read comic books much) it would have to be  Batman for me. He was always a more multi-faceted persona with an interesting dark side. Don't know if that is the " correct" answer or not, but I'm sticking to it. Superman was a little too simplistic and jingoistic for my taste.

be back soon!

 

Edited by LeftCoastMom

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10. What is all this Greek stuff about? Why can't I be Sedna or someone? DOWN WITH EURO-CENTRISM !!!! But if you insist...suppose I would have to Amphitrite. Only she goes along  with my avatars and she is an ocean-lover like me. Only she is married to Poseidon and I am married to The Great Stone Face. But me loves him muchly.

She is not, however, as cool as Sedna or many other sea queens...so there!

 

 

image.jpg

Edited by LeftCoastMom

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11. The most important thing to remember is that there were and are thousands of native cultures ( plural!!) on these two continents. Each had/has it's own culture , languages, traditions, and faith system. They are so diverse it is hard to make blanket statements about them as many non-natives like to do. For instance, talking about " native spirituality" is, IMHO,an oxymoron. Native faiths could be as different as Lutherans  to Shinto. You have to indicate what tribe or culture you are talking about.

Almost every native group has been impacted by the invasion and colonization of the so-called " Americas" in terms of population, land,culture, religion, and sovereignty. Almost all issues that arise will deal with one or more of these problems. 

 

My my duties as a tribal citizen, member of tribal council, and Elder are to look after the well-being of the tribe and make sure the culture is carried on, the treaty rights with the US are honored,and any contemporary problems ( such as health care, drug and alcohol counseling, housing ,educational assistance,etc.) are carried on properly so that the People can move forward in a good way. It also means interfacing with the " alphabets" (Bureau of Indian Affairs, NOAA, State agencies, etc,) in order to deal with issues in which the tribe has an interest and duty to involvement. This  can be anything but lately a lot of  it has  to do with the state of the planet, both locally and globally. Some friends went to the Paris talks on Climate Change and my husband recently returned from a meeting with various agencies on the health of the Pacific coast oceanic ecosystems.

As far as other outside actions regarding native issues go, my family has been involved with:

 

serving on inter-organizational boards

lawsuits against government agencies

sacred site protection and defense

marches

protests

blockades

occupations

civil disobedience 

Other forms of confrontation with the dominant culture when necessary 

i will probably be doing most of these for the rest of my life ,but that's okay with me. It's worth it for my grandkids and your grandkids, too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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12. I want to learn a game a Grandma with a bit of arthritis in her fingers can play. I don't know enough about video games to say. Something nice. I have enough excitement in real life sometimes. Afraid my grandkids might be bored with a game like that, though. :blush3: 

 

13. I can tickle myself...what is the problem with the rest of you?:confused3:

14. I plead the Fifth.

15. Hameedeh is wonderful, but I so far I have related to her more on a personal-matters  level rather than an ethnic one. Our tribes are very dissimilar in culture, but we have shared some "pan-Indian" moments ( FRYBREAD!)  She is a very caring person and gets back to me very quickly on any question I may have. She seems to be very devoted to her faith and family.  I'm looking forward to getting to know her better if it turns out I will hang around.

 

16. I'm older, so I'd  use some of it to take the family and travel to see parts of the world I haven't yet and see some people I need to visit one last time . Then I'd use some of it for the tribal legal "war-chest" because we have things coming up regarding the repatriation of land and sacred site protection, and some of it for our cultural resources , especially the language program. If I have any left over, I will pay a non-native ally to buy the piece of land containing a sacred burial place one of the local ndn-haters ( actually is)owns and won't sell to the tribe. Then my friend can turn it over to me and I can deed it to the tribe. When we add it to the Nation,  that will sure show Hater.:grin:

 

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Quote

As I Messaged you...your intro makes me blush.

You deserve each and every word. love5.gif

Quote

1. " SG" is the initials of " Shia Gentleman" . He's my daughter's friend and possible future spouse. My daughter is sometimes referred to as " DD" (dear daughter? I actually didn't give her that but it works for me ).  Sorry you think it  it reads like a "CIA manuscript ". I haven't sent for my possible records under the FOIA so I don't know what one looks like. Lol.

Even I didn’t know about DD. :O Also, now it reads like a script from Dexter (to those who don’t know who Dee Dee is, I pity thee!).

Quote

2. " Wawinyangwacipi " is the Lakota word for their Sundance ceremony. I'm not and don't speak Lakota, so you'd have to take it up with them why their language is the way it is. I don't see it as any more formidable than Welsh ,say,though.

What’s a Sundance ceremony?

Quote

3. I feel fine being here. I'm glad the people here are so accepting. It appears that when you folks created this place, you wanted to enter into dialogue with people of other faiths and even provided forums for doing so...otherwise you would have made it a closed group. Not sure how to increase diversity...probably by inviting others to take a look at this site or maybe referencing it when you folks do op-eds or other writings in real space or cyber-space. I just did an internet search after being dissatisfied with my library foray regarding the Shi'a. This seemed the most likely spot for getting my questions answered. I haven't been disappointed.

Aww. love5.gif I’m glad that you feel this way.

I’m sure that the admins – and the other members – will take your suggestions into account.

Quote

That said,I'm always mindful it isn't " my" space and don't say a lot of things I sometimes want to say or would say in another venue.

Nonsense! This is your space just as much as ours. You should say whatever you want.

Quote

4. I love the good-heartedness and politeness of the folks here. Although I think there must be a million trepidations going through the heads of many readers regarding the relationship between DD and SG, everyone has been kind and caring towards them and me.  I was surprised no one threw a snit-fit over a non-Muslim outsider and a Shi'a getting involved. I had to laugh when several people ( think it was Abu Hadi first?) just up  and said " Why don't they get married?" Or something like that. No judgment...just acceptance of the relationship with a sort of Zen-like calm. Plus Shi'a seem to have a well-developed sense of humor and positive outlook on the world. Considering what is happening to you in some parts of it right now, I wonder how that is.

The answer is simple: we’re just the most awesome people in existence!

Quote

Another thing that irritates me is the reference to obviously secular Westerners as " Christians".

Here’s hoping we’re more cognizant of these differences in the future.

Quote

7. I don't know DV well enough to compare him to any divine entity yet. I certainly hope he doesn't have the family issues Hephaestus did. (Game of Thrones caliber problems.)   But  he's a powerful being and I will try not to make him wroth with me. Pyroclastic fury is untidy and inconvenient.

 You obviously Googled him! That is a sort of Easter egg that I did not expect you to know. (To those who don’t know, Hephaestus is the Greek god of smithing, crafting and, by extension, fire. The aforementioned family issues refer to an incident when his mother, Hera, was revolted by her son because she thought he was malformed/ugly and threw him off Mount Olympus. Obviously, I was associating his technical skill with DV, not this stuff.)

Also, thine English supersedes mine!

Quote

I usually just say " native people" and call myself " First Nations" or just " native" ,even though that can be confusing,too.

Native people it is! 

Quote

9. The movies or the characters ? Assuming characters ( I wasn't allowed to read comic books much) it would have to be  Batman for me. He was always a more multi-faceted persona with an interesting dark side. Don't know if that is the " correct" answer or not, but I'm sticking to it. Superman was a little too simplistic and jingoistic for my taste.

Ding! Right answer! If you gave the wrong one, you’d be filled chock full of Kryptonite and sent to suffer for eternity in the Phantom Zone.

 

Quote

 

10. What is all this Greek stuff about? Why can't I be Sedna or someone? DOWN WITH EURO-CENTRISM !!!! But if you insist...suppose I would have to Amphitrite. Only she goes along  with my avatars and she is an ocean-lover like me. Only she is married to Poseidon and I am married to The Great Stone Face. But me loves him muchly.

She is not, however, as cool as Sedna or many other sea queens...so there!

 

Huh. Even I didn’t know about Amphitrite. Also, I’d have expected you to go with someone like Hera or Athena (perhaps the prior reading on Hephaestus put you off Hera, eh?).

 

Quote

 

11. The most important thing to remember is that there were and are thousands of native cultures ( plural!!) on these two continents. Each had/has it's own culture , languages, traditions, and faith system. They are so diverse it is hard to make blanket statements about them as many non-natives like to do. For instance, talking about " native spirituality" is, IMHO,an oxymoron. Native faiths could be as different as Lutherans  to Shinto. You have to indicate what tribe or culture you are talking about.

Almost every native group has been impacted by the invasion and colonization of the so-called " Americas" in terms of population, land,culture, religion, and sovereignty. Almost all issues that arise will deal with one or more of these problems. 

 

My my duties as a tribal citizen, member of tribal council, and Elder are to look after the well-being of the tribe and make sure the culture is carried on, the treaty rights with the US are honored,and any contemporary problems ( such as health care, drug and alcohol counseling, housing ,educational assistance,etc.) are carried on properly so that the People can move forward in a good way. It also means interfacing with the " alphabets" (Bureau of Indian Affairs, NOAA, State agencies, etc,) in order to deal with issues in which the tribe has an interest and duty to involvement. This  can be anything but lately a lot of  it has  to do with the state of the planet, both locally and globally. Some friends went to the Paris talks on Climate Change and my husband recently returned from a meeting with various agencies on the health of the Pacific coast oceanic ecosystems.

As far as other outside actions regarding native issues go, my family has been involved with:

 

serving on inter-organizational boards

lawsuits against government agencies

sacred site protection and defense

marches

protests

blockades

occupations

civil disobedience 

Other forms of confrontation with the dominant culture when necessary 

i will probably be doing most of these for the rest of my life ,but that's okay with me. It's worth it for my grandkids and your grandkids, too.

 

That’s quite an impressive resume! I’m sure that both I and the others have benefited a lot and gained a better understanding of the ‘native people’ because of this.

Quote

12. I want to learn a game a Grandma with a bit of arthritis in her fingers can play. I don't know enough about video games to say. Something nice. I have enough excitement in real life sometimes. Afraid my grandkids might be bored with a game like that, though. :blush3: 

Candy Crush? LOL A proud member of the PC Master Race like myself, though, would balk at the idea…even the mere mention of Candy Crush brings a bitter taste to my mouth.

Quote

13. I can tickle myself...what is the problem with the rest of you?

Actually, you can’t: http://www.radiolab.org/story/91885-why-cant-we-tickle-ourselves/

Quote

14. I plead the Fifth.

The ShiaChat constitution does not have a Fifth Amendment to plead; you must answer the question or face charges of treason, dishonesty and a lack of admiration for Khadim uz Zahra. The punishment for these crimes is an immediate, and everlasting, ban from ShiaChat and all its adjoining territories.

Quote

15. Hameedeh is wonderful, but I so far I have related to her more on a personal-matters  level rather than an ethnic one. Our tribes are very dissimilar in culture, but we have shared some "pan-Indian" moments ( FRYBREAD!)  She is a very caring person and gets back to me very quickly on any question I may have. She seems to be very devoted to her faith and family.  I'm looking forward to getting to know her better if it turns out I will hang around.

She is, in a word, an angel and the only other acceptable answer to the prior question. (Tread lightly on that one. :threatenlumber:)

Quote

16. I'm older, so I'd  use some of it to take the family and travel to see parts of the world I haven't yet and see some people I need to visit one last time . Then I'd use some of it for the tribal legal "war-chest" because we have things coming up regarding the repatriation of land and sacred site protection, and some of it for our cultural resources , especially the language program. If I have any left over, I will pay a non-native ally to buy the piece of land containing a sacred burial place one of the local ndn-haters ( actually is)owns and won't sell to the tribe. Then my friend can turn it over to me and I can deed it to the tribe. When we add it to the Nation,  that will sure show Hater.:grin:

LOL You be no fun.

Though, they are lofty goals indeed and exactly why you deserve every word of the blush-inducing introduction I wrote for you.

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To answer your first question...the Sundance takes several forms among the plains tribes in North America. It has spread to other areas, but that's where it originates. I won't say too much about it because it isn't supposed to be recorded and ,since  2003, outsiders ( non-natives) are not supposed to be permitted at the ceremonies. This was announced by spiritual leader Arvol Looking Horse after a meeting of hundreds of representatives   from the tribes and bands. I was pretty happy to hear that myself. Only the men who pledge and prepare themselves for this do it ...at a place prepared for it. Women ,children, and supporters camp nearby.  It lasts several days and involves fasting, prayer and sometimes piercings. It's done for the sake and well-being of the community and families. This ceremony is so powerful and meaningful to the communities that it threatened the attempted forced assimilation of the tribes by the settler governments of Canada and the US. So it was banned or prohibited or otherwise interfered with ( a lesson for those who think America has always been about religious freedom) by both governments, along with many other native religious practices from other areas. Some of these ceremonies were not fully legal again in the US until the American Indian Religious Freedom Act of 1978. 

note: no matter what the punishment if they were caught, it was done anyway in secret. The tribes claim there has been a Sundance somewhere out there every year no matter what ,even when it was banned.

 

 

To answer your question about the "most awesome member "of the forum....the most awesome " member" is the One whose presence is always here and in which we live and move and have our being. By honoring that One,I am also honoring  KZ, Hameedeh, and all the other awesome folks in here. Okay ...ban me for that!

 

image.jpg

image.jpg

Edited by LeftCoastMom

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