Terrorism: Sunni vs. Shia

[Shah Khan]

6 minutes ago, Intellectual Resistance said:

I dislike him because of the Aqeedah innovations. You had previously told me you are a Maturidi, if i am not wrong? Are you aware Maturidi Aqeedah, and the Aqeedah of Muhammed b. Abdul Wahhab are totally different? You share more with us on the most important issue of all - Tawheed.  He came to try to do away with innovations in Fiqh, and while he had legitimate concerns about some innovations i do not agree with myself, his idea of innovation was far too unbalanced. He also revived and gave more power and strength to innovations many respectable Maturidi Sunni scholars have refuted.

In terms of terrorists, the reality is, no terrorist group truly represents Sunni Islam. Sunni Muslims by and large are peaceful and condemn terrorism and terrorists. If some people claim to be terrorists and attach themselves to Sunni Islam, that has more to do with geopolitics and how that evolved, as well as people who hijack Sunni Islam, and hijack the Salafi-movement, which has its flaws but certainly doesn't condone terrorists. Saudi-Arabia funds them, but they don't represent Sunni Islam, and even my Salafi cousin disavows them. 

Brother Yes I am Maturidi and Hanafi (Deobandi). But brother, there are 3 acceptable creeds within Sunni Islam Maturidi, Ashari & Athari (Salafi). Shaykh Muhammad Bin Abdul Wahaab was Athari (Salafi) in Creed. My Sunni Deobandi (Maturidi Hanafi) Masters Praise Muhammad bin Abdul Wahaab.

Have a Look at these brother.

http://www.darulifta-deoband.com/home/en/Deviant-Sects/5177

http://www.darulifta-deoband.com/home/en/Deviant-Sects/37703

[ShiaMan14]

On 3/9/2018 at 8:21 PM, Shah Khan said:

Why you guys have so much hatred for Muhammad bin abdul Wahaab ??? Just because he destroyed pagan practices??

Wahabis and salafis have perverted Islam into a religion that the whole world hayes when it is a religion of peace. That's my reason...

On 3/9/2018 at 8:20 PM, Shah Khan said:

Why are you always accusing us (Deobandis) for terrorism? Any Specific reason? Aren't there any Shia Terrorist groups??

When you find one, please let me know...

[Intellectual Resistance]

11 minutes ago, Shah Khan said:

Brother Yes I am Maturidi and Hanafi (Deobandi). But brother, there are 3 acceptable creeds within Sunni Islam Maturidi, Ashari & Athari (Salafi). Shaykh Muhammad Bin Abdul Wahaab was Athari (Salafi) in Creed. My Sunni Deobandi (Maturidi Hanafi) Masters Praise Muhammad bin Abdul Wahaab.

Have a Look at these brother.

http://www.darulifta-deoband.com/home/en/Deviant-Sects/5177

http://www.darulifta-deoband.com/home/en/Deviant-Sects/37703

Dear brother,

I would say it's a little bit more complicated than that. There is division over this individual. While those are the three sects in Sunni Islam, the Ashari and the Maturidi being more or less the same but differing only in 'semantics', the reality is, modern day Salafis are not what orthodox Sunni groups of the Ashari and Maturidi schools regard as true Atharis. Rather they regard them as deviants, who try to claim to be Atharis but are not truly Atharis. Furthermore, Salafis wholesale through multiple videos claim Muhammed b. Abdul Wahhab as one of their own, and his Aqeedah from Kitab al-Tawhid is at direct contradiction with your own Aqeedah in one of the most fundamental pillars - Tawheed. He believes Allah literally by his essence, is above the throne, ascends, descends, has two hands, a shin, but not like ours, and attributes to him what is for his creation.

Just to drive it home, according to a well known website, IslamQA, which i am sure you are aware of and is governed by a Salafi Mufti, there is no talk of 'acceptable' creeds. They regard Asharis and Maturidis are deviants and innovators in Aqeedah.

Have a look here for example: https://islamqa.info/en/205836 - They don't even consider you as part of the Ahlus-Sunnah wal-Jamaah.

Salafis have even created a website mocking and refuting Asharis and Maturidis as deviants: http://www.asharis.com/creed/

And you can watch a host of videos from Salafis not considering you as part of the Ahlus-Sunnah, but rather deviants:

 

 

 

Do you know what Salafis refer to Maturidis and Asharis as? Jahmis, after Jahmiyya b. Safwan, the founder of the Mutazila movement. They don't regard you as a legitimate Sunni school, and rather consider you as deviants.  We Shias on the other hand, consider you as the orthodox Sunni group, and the Salafis as the deviants.

Edited March 10, 2018 by Intellectual Resistance

[Shah Khan]

4 minutes ago, Intellectual Resistance said:

Dear brother,

I would say it's a little bit more complicated than that. There is division over this individual. While those are the three sects in Sunni Islam, the Ashari and the Maturidi being more or less the same but differing only in 'semantics', the reality is, modern day Salafis are not what orthodox Sunni groups of the Ashari and Maturidi schools regard as true Atharis. Rather they regard them as deviants, who try to claim to be Atharis but are not truly Atharis. Furthermore, Salafis wholesale through multiple videos claim Muhammed b. Abdul Wahhab as one of their own, and his Aqeedah from Kitab al-Tawhid is at direct contradiction with your own Aqeedah in one of the most fundamental pillars - Tawheed. He believes Allah literally by his essence, is above the throne, ascends, descends, has two hands, a shin, but not like ours, and attributes to him what is for his creation.

Just to drive it home, according to a well known website, IslamQA, which i am sure you are aware of and is governed by a Salafi Mufti, there is no talk of 'acceptable' creeds. They regard Asharis and Maturidis are deviants and innovators in Aqeedah.

Have a look here for example: https://islamqa.info/en/205836 - They don't even consider you as part of the Ahlus-Sunnah wal-Jamaah.

Salafis have even created a website mocking and refuting Asharis and Maturidis as deviants: http://www.asharis.com/creed/

And you can watch a host of videos from Salafis not considering you as part of the Ahlus-Sunnah, but rather deviants:

Do you know what Salafis refer to Maturidis and Asharis as? Jahmis, after Jahmiyya b. Safwan, the founder of the Mutazila movement. They don't regard you as a legitimate Sunni school, and rather consider you as deviants.  We Shias on the other hand, consider you as the orthodox Sunni group, and the Salafis as the deviants.

If that's the case, then I would Love to be corrected. .
May Allah Reward you brother for correcting me.

[ZethaPonderer]

Truth be told I was being serious about my post so make of that what you will.

As for Shia Terrorist Groups being a possibility I’ve recently read this interesting discussion from Quora which lists some ‘supposedly’ Shia Terrorist Groups. Worthy to read the post of Trilochana Rout,

https://www.quora.com/Are-there-any-terrorist-groups-that-claim-to-be-aligned-with-Shia-Islam

Shia Terrorism is a misnomer since the ‘supposedly’ Terrorist groups representing Shia Islam are more or less Freedom Fighters or Nationalist Groups and their ‘terrorism’ is more regional than global. While Sunni Terrorism is more on a global scale such as ISIS and Al-Qaeda derived from the roots of Wahabbism and Salafism who represent themselves as the True Sunni Islam which is disrespectful to some of the Sunni Branches e.g. Maliki, Hanafi, Sha’afi.

Edited March 10, 2018 by Hameedeh
[Mod Note: Moderators can increase the size of excessively small fonts to a standard size of 14.]

[Sumerian]

On 10/03/2018 at 1:02 PM, Intellectual Resistance said:

We Shias on the other hand, consider you as the orthodox Sunni group, and the Salafis as the deviants.

No we don't. This is an intra-discussion between themselves which has nothing to do with us. All non-Twelver Muslims are of one status according to the famous opinions of the fuqaha. It's like trying to determine who are orthodox Christians or Jews, that discussion is useless to us.

[Intellectual Resistance]

10 hours ago, Sumerian said:

No we don't. This is an intra-discussion between themselves which has nothing to do with us. All non-Twelver Muslims are of one status according to the famous opinions of the fuqaha. It's like trying to determine who are orthodox Christians or Jews, that discussion is useless to us.

Dear brother,

I was not referring to them being legitimate groups that are upon right guidance , because the only group that i believe that is are the Shia-Ithanasheris. While the others are Muslims (and let us not get involved in a debate about in this world verses the Akhirah) i thought it was pretty obvious the only right way is our way. What i was trying to refer to is that when our scholars commonly refer to the 'Ahlus-Sunnah' they are actually referring to the orthodox groups , such as the Asharis and Maturidis, and not those of the modern Salafi movement, who we believe are the actual deviants among them.

It's a very subtle and nuanced point i am making here.

Edited March 11, 2018 by Intellectual Resistance

[Guest Account Ali]

Quote

Excepted sex slavery thé iranian régime Stoned,  hanged,  flagellating People on the street like daech .  Killed People the bahais like daech do with yezidis Just because they were hérésies. Try to destroy iranian sassanid monument like daech try to do with archeological monument in irak and syria . Do terrorist attack in france like daech did . Beat and sometimes kill women Who refuse hijab like daech do with those Who refuse niqab.  Take Child soldiers for suicide bombings like daech now etc etc

@AmirAlmuminin Lover Your take on this? 

[Sumerian]

13 hours ago, Intellectual Resistance said:

Dear brother,

I was not referring to them being legitimate groups that are upon right guidance , because the only group that i believe that is are the Shia-Ithanasheris. While the others are Muslims (and let us not get involved in a debate about in this world verses the Akhirah) i thought it was pretty obvious the only right way is our way. What i was trying to refer to is that when our scholars commonly refer to the 'Ahlus-Sunnah' they are actually referring to the orthodox groups , such as the Asharis and Maturidis, and not those of the modern Salafi movement, who we believe are the actual deviants among them.

It's a very subtle and nuanced point i am making here.

No. They don't. There is no "Ahlul Sunnah" status. It's just "al-mukhalifeen". And they are all treated in the same way. 

And they are all deviants (munharifeen).

Edited March 12, 2018 by Sumerian

[AmirAlmuminin Lover]

11 hours ago, Guest Account Ali said:

@AmirAlmuminin Lover Your take on this? 

Doesn't worth to comment, brother

[Abu Nur]

[Intellectual Resistance]

8 hours ago, Sumerian said:

No. They don't. There is no "Ahlul Sunnah" status. It's just "al-mukhalifeen". And they are all treated in the same way. 

And they are all deviants (munharifeen).

I'm more than aware of that brother, given i've discussed this with you several times and you gave me a lot of useful knowledge. What i am referring to is the group of Muslims who refer to them by that name. Obviously the Shia are the real 'Ahlus-Sunnah'.  However, the group we consider as the orthodox group of those we can work with who call themselves Sunnis are not Salafis, but Asharis and Maturidis - generally. 

[Guest Account Ali]

On 3/12/2018 at 6:46 AM, AmirAlmuminin Lover said:

Doesn't worth to comment, brother

Aight.