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Areej Fatima

My brother has left Islam

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Salam,

My brother has left Islam, he is now an atheist. For some time he was questioning things and questioning Quranic verses and used to say he is searching, now he says he is not a muslim anymore. My family still had hope and all of us were trying hard to bring him back to the right path... we would argue logically with him but he replies and acts like a typical atheist and is not willing to accept anything. Still... because he is young and immature we still hoped that he will eventually realize - up until now we took it as a theoretical problem, we were so confident of him that he wouldn't be practically living the life like an atheist, we thought atheism was only in his mind we didn't know it had make it to his life and his ways. We just learnt that he's been committing great sins. He lives on his own, my parents live in a different country with my brother and his family, I live in a different country and my sister lives close to him but he doesn't listen to anyone. He is independent and rich and alone. . . though he's only 24.

We're religious and when we learnt of how sinful life he's living ..it was like a majlis on skype, my mom cried so much, my sister in law, my siblings and me... we have been crying for him for what irreversible sins he's done and how he has broken our trust.. but what I need advice for now, is that what should we do now ? Should we confront him of what we've come to know.. should we break ties with him ? Should we stop talking ? Should we let him know that we know ? Or should we, like my mom says, be silent for the time being... My mom plans to go to him and compel him to live with her in a Muslim country so that he will be in front of her eyes. And my father keeps saying we should force him to marry and things will get better.... but obviously if he isn't Muslim we can't marry him to a muslim girl, it would be something if we get him to marry anyone.. as obviously marriage is now unnecessary and uninteresting to him. 

It's that if we all take a stand against him he will (most probably) not pay much heed to it and can even go without talking to us for months.. what we fear is that deserting him would only cause him to sink even deeper into the sinful lifestyle... such as taking drugs and other substances. But on the other hand I think that if we keep silent we would ourselves be committing a sin...

I really want sincere advice on what we all should do... I know that only Allah can guide him now but if there's anything WE can do... 

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i have seen many ppl who are muslims living in western countries becoming confused like this. its unlikely he'll leave islam altogether. just treat him like a normal muslim brother even if he has stopped praying. many muslims living in muslim countries arent praying at all either....he'll take time but he'll become normal. 

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Sister first of all I suggest you ask him to list exactly what reasons he has for leaving islam, then if you can provide the list that he writes to us, we can reply accordingly. he is 24 and living alone for (what I am assuming) is the first time in his life, so all forbidden things for him growing up are now within easy reach with no restrictive presence to tell him that these things are wrong. It could be that he is simply going through a rebel phase, could be he has some underlying issues, could be that he genuinely rejects islam for well thought out reasons. 

find out as much as you can about his problems, and type them on this site, InshaAllah we will help you

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this is the end of times brother/sister 

many people are sinning at a great great magnitude 

peoples belief in God has been so dwindled and so obscured by things like "science" 

people get educated on some small aspect of the universe or us, and suddenly they think they know better then God

they belittle God 

but on another important thing is that this is the PROOF of God 

you see when people become Atheists from some religion, they dont just become Atheists and live their lives with some new name on their lips 


rather they go heavy into things that are forbidden

you dont find Atheists become philanthropists, or suddenly become a huge benefit to society 

you find they go straight for all the evil they can imagine and do 


they want to do and try everything while leaving things like prayer and fasting and good deeds, they dont become better people as Atheists they become selfish evil people doing every evil sin under the sun 

in fact that is the only reason they are Atheists, so they can live a care free life

now about the Question as to what to do , really the answer is nothing

if God sees in this person good and seeking truth, God will give him guidance and bring him back , but if God knows that this person will truly turn away forever, then God wil let him go and theer is nothing you can do abotu ti 

Quran  : "Do you wish to guide the one whom We have sent astray? Never will you find guidance for him.."

Now i know it might be hard to let go of a relative, but remember on judgement day all relations will be cut and you wont care for anyone, not even your mother (unless your a Mumin who was saved then its a different story)

as to how ot treat this person? well you cant cut relations that is a sin, so you must keep your relations , and the way to behave towards them is as if everything is okay 

you cant sever relations and turn on them and curse them etc you must be in good behaviour according to Islam in front of them and pray for them 

however bear in mind that the Quran says that for the disbelievers praying for them makes the Quran a curse and damages them 



 

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From my experience, I have seen this in a lot of people and usually the trigger is when they start eating haram food. What starts as a small bite of a big mac or a cheese burger slowly takes them away from Allah and his message one bite at a time.

 

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:'( we are so so so hurt and broken by what he's doing. Its not just him I'm concerned about... I fear my parents will gradually fall sick because of the stress, my mother has been blaming herself since, I feel our family will fall apart. We are all so depressed... we grew up together, we spent 20 years in the same house.. we used to watch scientific documentaries together... he could use the documentary to disprove God and we could use the same documentary to prove God. We've had many intellectual discussions, he's thought about it, like so many of the posts in the atheism section in here.. and the atheists arguing there .. he argues in much the same way. No matter how much logical we are after a certain point it appears he cant understand anymore... for the past few months he's been so forgetful and confused it's like his mind is not working properly either... he keeps listening to music non-stop and doesn't distinguish between haram and halal food... all those things are meaningless to him. But he has such destructive habits that even another rational atheist would say that he's headed towards doom.

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2 hours ago, mightymask said:


as to how ot treat this person? well you cant cut relations that is a sin, so you must keep your relations , and the way to behave towards them is as if everything is okay 

you cant sever relations and turn on them and curse them etc you must be in good behaviour according to Islam in front of them and pray for them 

 

2 hours ago, reisiger said:

The best advice I can give is this: treat him like your brother whom you love and care for.

How many of you would agree with this .. ? We should behave normally with him ? All that pain in my heart I shouldn't convey to him ? I am so angry and sad that because of him my parents will suffer and my siblings will suffer... that I can never see him in the same light again. He's committing punishable sins... are we allowed to keep quiet ? 

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Atheism by itself is not the problem here. I mean, to be honest, many people may eventually have an atheist/agnostic phase. I have seen people who managed to benefit and return to religion with more strength after this phase. Problem is when atheism is a reaction against one's culture, religion, and self-identity. The issue here is not intellectual but of social nature. Maybe using an approach adjusted to his social condition rather than intellectual/religious stance could work better.

And whatever the God you want to believe or not to believe in, one should try not to lose the trust and love of good relatives, regardless of your beliefs. He could even benefit from reading some valuable atheist thinkers, as many have acknowledged the value and dignity of religion. Atheism is not about being a stubborn sinner.

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It sounds like your loved one has some big problems underlying his abandonment of his religion, not just a simple falling   away from faith. Your family might be reacting to that, too?Most atheists I know are very moral because they acknowledge personal and societal responsibility. Probably forcing him into a situation he doesn't like , unless you feel his life is imminently in danger, is just going to drive him further over the edge. I know it is difficult, but I think that you and your family should do whatever it takes to try to get yourselves in a good place mentally and health-wise so you can be ready to get him the help he needs when he can accept it. You can't if you are panicking yourselves. I personally don't think you should retreat from him unless he is directly harming other family members.

No need for your family to beat itself up over this. It seems you had a close, happy home. This happens to many families.

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4 hours ago, hafiz said:

i have seen many ppl who are muslims living in western countries becoming confused like this. its unlikely he'll leave islam altogether. just treat him like a normal muslim brother even if he has stopped praying. many muslims living in muslim countries arent praying at all either....he'll take time but he'll become normal. 

He hasn't left praying, that is the sin that probably we do. He ......... is drinking, fornicating, making money through wrong means............. :'( :'( 

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Does your brother have any friend? You could ask a Muslim friend to contact him and involve him in halal activities, because if he is left alone he is likely to increase his sins.

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6 hours ago, DigitalUmmah said:

Sister first of all I suggest you ask him to list exactly what reasons he has for leaving islam, then if you can provide the list that he writes to us, we can reply accordingly. he is 24 and living alone for (what I am assuming) is the first time in his life, so all forbidden things for him growing up are now within easy reach with no restrictive presence to tell him that these things are wrong. It could be that he is simply going through a rebel phase, could be he has some underlying issues, could be that he genuinely rejects islam for well thought out reasons. 

find out as much as you can about his problems, and type them on this site, InshaAllah we will help you

I absolutely agree with Brother DigitalUmmah.....

'ask him to list exactly what reasons he has for leaving islam'.....may just be the best and most practical way to address the issue. Let it not be a phone conversation but a written request (email maybe) for which in return your brother may endeavour a more concise and thoughtful response. The manner of request is also important especially giving credence to a perspective which he may hold above all else, hence an attentive approach.

 

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Salam,

Sorry to hear, the grief you are going thru.

The good news, this is a test for your family,and test is nothing but growth for a believer,

and your suffering is counted as clearing of sins, as the reward.

 

The below is my personal opinion,

Your brother seemed to have been a smart guy,

who needed some one who could explain religion from a deeper perspective.

He probably had many unanswered questions,

your family could not provide, despite the intellectual conversations.

And him being independent and financially successful at a young age,

rebellion, arrogance and pride has taken over him.

 

Probably you can , ask him what Digital Ummah suggested, and other advices, up to three times.

After the third time, there is not much you can do, but leave him to hit his head hard on the ground on his own.

This will be his journey to discover life, and actually maybe better earlier, than later on in life.

Just pray alot more after that for his guidance, first to be better human being,

then to understand his religion from sources who can give him proper answers.

 

Sometimes people have to experience the worst in order to be the best.

Things may have to get worse before it gets better.

Life is the best University one can enroll in.

If only we learn from it.

There is alot to learn from both sides

 

May Allah grant you'll patience, to Handle this situation in the best of manners.

Wasalam

 

Edited by tendersoul

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Keep the lines of communication open with your brother. Anything you say and do might cause him to reflect and return to the right path. Do not be hopeless. Allah always wants us to be positive. 

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Those who leave, do come back. With this dramatic shia style, you will force your brother to even disconnect with the family. Therefore don't force him, force causes repulsion. Show love to him rather tears and frustration. And destiny is the religion of all mankind. If he loves philosophy and poetry, even after 1000 years of die-hard trying to be an atheist, he will still remain a theist. 

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8 hours ago, Areej Fatima said:

He hasn't left praying, that is the sin that probably we do. He ......... is drinking, fornicating, making money through wrong means............. :'( :'( 

when i said be kind and good to him i was not talking about him, i was talking about you 

dont let his evil spill over into you and cause you do partake in sins as well , a lot of people dont realize this but anger is a sin cause it harms your soul 

so when i was saying be kind and good was not because he is deserving but because it is better for you to be like this, especially when faced wit a hardship and test 

and finally remember this Quranic verse , the Quran is your book of God's spoken words to remind you and to remind myself 

Bismillah 

Elif Lam Mim 

Do people think they will be left alone on saying "We believe" and that they will not be tested?

And certainly We tried those before them, so Allah will certainly know those who are true and He will certainly know the liars.

and another verse 

Be sure we shall test you with something of fear and hunger, some loss in goods or lives or the fruits (of your toil), but give glad tidings to those who patiently persevere, (2:155)

so this is a test for your whole family 

you can moan and cry and wail and fail, or you can persevere and succeed 

and remember that your test in comparison to the test of those before you is NOTHING

Or think you that you will enter Paradise without such (trials) as came to those who passed away before you? They were afflicted with severe poverty and ailments and were so shaken that even the Messenger and those who believed along with him said, "When (will come) the Help of Allah?" Yes! Certainly, the Help of Allah is near! (2:214)

 

so be thankful that your test is only this, imagine if your lives were in danger, you had no food, and you were exiled and attacked from all sides(kind of like what is happening to the true Muslims of middle east)

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2 hours ago, Areej Fatima said:

Okay, I'll try to get a list of his reasons for leaving Islam.... but I don't understand, shouldn't we at least admonish him for what he's doing ? I think of people who may suffer because of him and feel it is my duty to take a stand .

The stand you make could be the bridges you burn. I know this is hard and I feel for you. He already knows you don't approve of his lifestyle. His atheistic arguments may be just arguments, not belief. if you confront him, you might just watch him drive off in a fancy car...for the last time.

King Soloman said "Train up a child in the way he should go and when he is old he will not depart from it. 

Don't write him off. The temptations of the world are great and not everyone can resist. Pray God will give him opportunity to see the error in his ways. Also pray for his safe return. I'm not saying I advocate his actions, but some times God needs a person to see what can't be learned from a book in order to move forward. Many great men have had to hit bottom first. 

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4 hours ago, Areej Fatima said:

Okay, I'll try to get a list of his reasons for leaving Islam.... but I don't understand, shouldn't we at least admonish him for what he's doing ? I think of people who may suffer because of him and feel it is my duty to take a stand .

One should be careful with the wording here. As for "reasons" can involve reasoning, studying, and interiorization of atheistic teachings and viewpoints, but also can technically be excuses (excuses such as one may feel discomfort with his religion, or dislike due to tangible personal experiences, and decides to leave it even though he didn't reach that level of disbelief intellectually, but as a personal reaction).

I don't know which could be more worrying for the relatives though... if his change is mostly a reaction against certain aspects of the way he lived and experienced his faith, one could expect that he may return to it eventually, after some time.

If the change is a well thought reasoning that led him to atheism, then I can guess it can be more complex but not necessarily worse, as that could mean he is actually interested in theology and philosophy, and there is a lot of interesting approaches to Islam that could make even the most stubborn atheist start believing.

Anyway, do your best to listen to him and empathize if you really want to do that list.

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6 hours ago, Areej Fatima said:

Okay, I'll try to get a list of his reasons for leaving Islam.... but I don't understand, shouldn't we at least admonish him for what he's doing ? I think of people who may suffer because of him and feel it is my duty to take a stand .

Salam,

The general rule of thumb in Islamic tradition is three times warning/ approaching after that you can put that person aside , if they don't reform.

Iblis was given three chances/ warnings before he was expelled from the first heaven.

But if they reform and come back , forgive and assist and look at them in a new light.

The prophets were even told to servere ties with their own son , such as Noah , was told by Allah in the Quran.

Because from what I have understood from what you said, your brother's situation is not ***only that of choosing a different belief / ideology, but what he may doing , might hurt others and your family.

If he just has a different view now, without hurting others and your family and can carry a healthy discussion that is different story.

Edited by tendersoul

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Salam,
This is a bit late, but I feel that I should add something.  Engage him as in adult in an intellectual discussion.  No joking, messing around, or being casual.  This is to be a discussion amongst two adults (or whoever else wants to join in).  You must make him feel at ease, and just discuss the things he is having troubles with.  Like a real heart-to-heart.  At this point he is likely confused and feeling the influence from people around him.  Be careful to listen to understand, not listen to reply; there is a difference.  Understand what he's coming from, and help him research any questions he has, and from the right sources.

Inshallah your family gets through this.

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I think it's better to act on him as a real muslim so he attract Islam voluntary.

Be inviter piople without your tongues

Edited by M.T

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On 12/6/2015 at 9:41 PM, Areej Fatima said:

Okay, I'll try to get a list of his reasons for leaving Islam.... but I don't understand, shouldn't we at least admonish him for what he's doing ? I think of people who may suffer because of him and feel it is my duty to take a stand .

@Areej Fatima curious to know if anything got better?

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On 03/12/2015 at 6:11 PM, Areej Fatima said:

Salam,

My brother has left Islam, he is now an atheist. For some time he was questioning things and questioning Quranic verses and used to say he is searching, now he says he is not a muslim anymore. My family still had hope and all of us were trying hard to bring him back to the right path... we would argue logically with him but he replies and acts like a typical atheist and is not willing to accept anything. Still... because he is young and immature we still hoped that he will eventually realize - up until now we took it as a theoretical problem, we were so confident of him that he wouldn't be practically living the life like an atheist, we thought atheism was only in his mind we didn't know it had make it to his life and his ways. We just learnt that he's been committing great sins. He lives on his own, my parents live in a different country with my brother and his family, I live in a different country and my sister lives close to him but he doesn't listen to anyone. He is independent and rich and alone. . . though he's only 24.

We're religious and when we learnt of how sinful life he's living ..it was like a majlis on skype, my mom cried so much, my sister in law, my siblings and me... we have been crying for him for what irreversible sins he's done and how he has broken our trust.. but what I need advice for now, is that what should we do now ? Should we confront him of what we've come to know.. should we break ties with him ? Should we stop talking ? Should we let him know that we know ? Or should we, like my mom says, be silent for the time being... My mom plans to go to him and compel him to live with her in a Muslim country so that he will be in front of her eyes. And my father keeps saying we should force him to marry and things will get better.... but obviously if he isn't Muslim we can't marry him to a muslim girl, it would be something if we get him to marry anyone.. as obviously marriage is now unnecessary and uninteresting to him. 

It's that if we all take a stand against him he will (most probably) not pay much heed to it and can even go without talking to us for months.. what we fear is that deserting him would only cause him to sink even deeper into the sinful lifestyle... such as taking drugs and other substances. But on the other hand I think that if we keep silent we would ourselves be committing a sin...

I really want sincere advice on what we all should do... I know that only Allah can guide him now but if there's anything WE can do... 

A little late I think, but as someone who too is deciding between thiesm and not, I can easily tell you what not to do.

- Don't treat us like idiots. We have our reasons and I'm sure your brother would love to discuss them with you. Personally, similar to the Islamic Da3wah concept, athiesm feels right and when people approach an athiest and asks us why, we will most likely indulge them in a fruitful conversation.

Don't emphasise religion when near us because of us. Seems a little counter-intuitive at first, huh? But believe me when I tell you, it'd be the gravity that will attract him back. Religious people are stereotyped as clingy and conservative - don't prove them right. Instead, go back to the first point and just debate. Ask us what we think is wrong - if you will - about Islam, maybe he has some conflicts that can easily be solved.

Don't promise us Dua or Prayers. Seriously, they've been proven to do nothing. Chicago Tribune. And just in case you aren't convinced, then it doesn't matter because we are.

Don't cut ties. If all ends in vain, then remember, he still is your brother.

لَا إِكْرَاهَ فِي الدِّينِ ۖ قَد تَّبَيَّنَ الرُّشْدُ مِنَ الْغَيِّ 

There is no compulsion in religion; truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error.

Wave him the white flag and recite half a verse (specificly the aforemnetioned half-verse) from suraht Al-Baqaraah. Then go back to the good ol' days.

 

 

Edited by Fish

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On 03/12/2015 at 2:39 PM, Areej Fatima said:

 

How many of you would agree with this .. ? We should behave normally with him ? All that pain in my heart I shouldn't convey to him ? I am so angry and sad that because of him my parents will suffer and my siblings will suffer... that I can never see him in the same light again. He's committing punishable sins... are we allowed to keep quiet ? 

i have to ask you , does he live in a western country? influenced by western ideas? if so ,then yes they dont have conservative standard of living and some poeple act like idiots, like they hear something, without even finding out what it may mean of whether islam has an answer to it, they just simply believe what they read, if thats your brother, let him come to a shia scholar, some one who could answer him, i was also going to say let him go to conservative countries and influence his habits but what happens if he leave behind damage instea of changing. isnt there any brother or friend who could communicate with him?

Edited by sidnaq

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why a muslim convert into an atheist? because he has no knowledge of God, This Universe, even himself, he may be a big fool or may be a big arrogant, because clever person understand that if a small pin cant be made by engineer then how this big universe can be, and the poise person think that i am nothing just a creature then how im supposed to be belief that God didnt exist, this just all doing by self...   i recommend you to watch Dr. Zakir Nike about atheist videos first to argue with your brother.

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On 1/12/2017 at 2:05 PM, syed Abdullah Tirmizi said:

i recommend you to watch Dr. Zakir Nike about atheist videos first to argue with your brother.

Bro this is a shia site, you better recommend shia scholars who are better than this [man] who calls the killer of Prophet's grandson radhi Allah.

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