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roya1b100d

Are Alawites Shi'a?

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I thought they were considered within the fold of Shi'a Islam, thus being Muslims. But I've read where they believe in reincarnation and practice Christian holidays like palm Sunday?

Edited by roya1b100d

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Salam

The Alawis are Nusayris (Ghulat) and their innovation is just...  

Well what you say is kinda true..They follow Jafari fiqh to some extent.

The reincarnation and the christian holidays, believing in the trinity of Muhammad SAWA, Ali AS and Salman al-Farsi, made them straightout kuffar.  

 

Wikipedia: THEOLOGY: Their theology is based on a divine triad,[58][64][65] or trinity, which is the core of Alawite belief.[66] The triad comprises three emanations of the one God: the supreme aspect or entity called the "Essence"[66] or the "Meaning"[65] (both being translations of ma'na), together with two lesser emanations known as his "Name" (ism), or "Veil" (hijab), and his "Gate" (bab).[64][65][66][67] These emanations have manifested themselves in different human forms over several cycles in history, the last cycle of which was as Ali (the Essence/Meaning), Muhammad (the Name) and Salman the Persian (the Gate).[64][66][67][68] Alawite belief is summarised in the formula: "I turn to the Gate; I bow before the Name; I adore the Meaning".

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I thought they were considered within the fold of Shi'a Islam, thus being Muslims. But I've read where they believe in reincarnation and practice Christian holidays like palm Sunday?

 

Shia ? They're not even considered Muslim.

 

They were only brought into the "Shia" world in the 80's as a way for Iran to expand its sphere of influence into Syria. They are outside the fold of Islam.

 

However, for the sake of not sounding like a Salafi Takfiri I'll just finish with Allah knows best.

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Salam, 

The Alawites from Syria or Turkey? A diffirence there is I think.

How would they be different? Alawites in Syria i know of but the ones in turkey are they a different religion?

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The ones in Turkey are a offshoot of the Alawite, and they are called Alevi. They are mostly Sufis (bekhtashi) mixed with Ismailism and the belief of the 12 Imams AS... They also have some beliefs of the m'utazilla school of thought. They have some weird practices and beliefs. They could possibly be Kuffar...

 

Read here for more info, but take some of the info as a grain of salt: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alevism 

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Shia ? They're not even considered Muslim.

 

They were only brought into the "Shia" world in the 80's as a way for Iran to expand its sphere of influence into Syria. They are outside the fold of Islam.

 

However, for the sake of not sounding like a Salafi Takfiri I'll just finish with Allah knows best.

There are many ghulat with shia offspring this is not an 'iranian invention of the 80's'. They are considered as offspring not as shia.Same goes for the Alevis in Turkey although there are a lot who call themselves Alevi but are Shias or as they say Jafari.

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There are many ghulat with shia offspring this is not an 'iranian invention of the 80's'. They are considered as offspring not as shia.Same goes for the Alevis in Turkey although there are a lot who call themselves Alevi but are Shias or as they say Jafari.

He is probably talking about this:

 

In 1969, Imām Mūsá was appointed as the first head of the Supreme Islamic Shi'ite Council (SISC), (in Arabic المجلس الإسلامي الشيعي الأعلى) an entity meant to give the Shī‘ah more say in government. For the next four years, he engaged the leadership of the Syrian ‘Alawīs in an attempt to unify their political power with that of the Twelver Shī‘ah. Though controversial, recognition of the ‘Alawī as Shī‘ah coreligionists came in July 1973 when he and the ‘Alawī religious leadership successfully appointed an ‘Alawī as an official mufti to the Twelver community.[16][17]

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musa_al-Sadr

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Alevi's of Turkey are an ofshoot of the Qizilbash (Redheads) which was an army of the early Safavid Empire.

Together with the Bektashi Sufi Order their central figure and teacher is called Haj Bektashi Veli which is an descendant of Imam Musa al-Kadhim a.s.

Both sects believe in all the Twelve Imams a.s. but there still are diffirences between us 'Twelvers' and them while in general terms they can be called Twelvers as well according to their beliefs in their (Twelve Imams a.s.) authority.





 

Edited by Skanderbeg

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There are many ghulat with shia offspring this is not an 'iranian invention of the 80's'. They are considered as offspring not as shia.Same goes for the Alevis in Turkey although there are a lot who call themselves Alevi but are Shias or as they say Jafari.

 

I didnt mean them to be an Irani invention. I meant that they were just officially recognized by Iran as being Shia and Muslim in the 80's by the Irani leadership.

 

Iran just wanted political power and to expand its doctrines and saw Syria as means to that end. In order to do that they declared Alawites as Shia.

 

All politics and nothing to do with religion.

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I didnt mean them to be an Irani invention. I meant that they were just officially recognized by Iran as being Shia and Muslim in the 80's by the Irani leadership.

 

Iran just wanted political power and to expand its doctrines and saw Syria as means to that end. In order to do that they declared Alawites as Shia.

 

All politics and nothing to do with religion.

Afaik it was and is an alliance against Zionism and it wasn't a recognition of Alawites as Shias in terms of religion.There is not a single fatwa from Imam Khomeini q or Imam Khamenei h that recognizes Alawites as shia but rather as Shia offspring.

Do have evidence for your claim?

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I met some alawites in Facebook and on some mosques. They said to me that they are shia, believe on the wilayat of the 12 imams etc ... They also said that they dont béliève in a "islamic trinity " or anything like that. Its Just false rumor. But they dont have marjas and dont beat chest like twelvers.

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I met some alawites in Facebook and on some mosques. They said to me that they are shia, believe on the wilayat of the 12 imams etc ... They also said that they dont béliève in a "islamic trinity " or anything like that. Its Just false rumor. But they dont have marjas and dont beat chest like twelvers.

So then they are Shia Muslims then? Thus being valid.? But what is a Marja?

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So then they are Shia Muslims then? Thus being valid.? But what is a Marja?

Salaam alaikum,

 

This is a potentially thorny subject, and as I am the least in knowledge here, please correct me if I make errors.  Based on what I know of this group, they would be considered ghulat; which means exaggerators.  If we are considering who is or is not a Shi'a, we need to remember what Shi'a means Shia'tu`Ali, or follower of Ali (AS).  Any group that upholds Imam Ali ibn Abi Talib (AS)'s rightful succession to RasulAllah (peace be upon him and his family) can be considered "Shi'a."  The ghulat or exaggerators may start from that position, but assert all manner of things that run contrary to the Qur'an and the authentic Sunnah of the Prophet (PBUH&HF) and the Ahlul Bayt (AS).  The most infamous of these is the so-called Abd Allah ibn Saba, who supposedly believed that Imam Ali (AS) was Allah (subhana wa ta'ala); auzubillah.

 

So in a sense, you could say they are Shi'a if you define it as someone who accepts the succession of Imam Ali (AS) as legitimate as opposed to the choosing of Abu Bakr as Caliph.  Based on what I know of their beliefs, I believe that they are outside the fold of Islam; however, it is not for me to label them kuffar.  Allah knows best. 

 

A Marja is a scholar.  In Twelver Shi'a belief, we follow a scholar and accept their judgments in matters of jurisprudence and laws (fiqh).  This is necessary because they will be properly versed in the necessary sciences (Qur'an, Hadith, Arabic language, etc) to be able to make judgments on contemporary issues based upon the Qur'an and Sunnah. 

 

As always, I might be making stuff up, so please correct me in shaa Allah if I am mistaken.  As I said, Allah knows best.

 

R

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Reisiger's post pretty much nails it.They started as Shia but took the ghulat direction and are outside of the teachings of ahlul beit as interms of aqida.I am refering to Alawites,Nusayris.

Was it narcissistic of me to "like" this post?? :)

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The alawites Who I met said to me that they dont consider imam Ali As as a god but Just an imam successor of Muhammad saws

Salaam alaikum,

 

I apologize for my poor wording.  I'm not saying that the Alawites consider Imam Ali (AS) to be Allah; I was using a well known example of a ghulluw position.  They have other beliefs that would be described as syncretic such as belief in transmigration of the soul, etc.  Now I am not a scholar of Islam and certainly less so in terms of Alawi beliefs; I only know about as much as the layman would.

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I also talked to alawites and heard the same like you ,but as reisiger said there are other aspects of their beliefs which are considered non islamic but rather syncretic afaik.

As for Alevites from Turkey.There are some like shias and others are considered non islamic.

Edited by mina313

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The alawites Who I met said to me that they dont consider imam Ali As as a god but Just an imam successor of Muhammad saws

Isn't a part of their faith is being very secretive?

Edited by roya1b100d

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http://martinkramer.org/sandbox/reader/archives/syria-alawis-and-shiism/hope this article helps.

From the article: 'Some of its features were indisputably Shi’ite, and included the veneration of Ali and the twelve Imams. But in the instance of Ali, this veneration carried over into actual deification, so that Ali was represented as an incarnation of God. Muhammad was his visible veil and prophet, and Muhammad’s companion, Salman al-Farisi, his proselytizer. The three formed a divine triad, but the deification of Ali represented the touchstone of Alawi belief. Astral gnosticism and metemspychosis (transmigration of souls) also figured in Alawi cosmology.'

Edited by mina313

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http://martinkramer.org/sandbox/reader/archives/syria-alawis-and-shiism/hope this article helps.

From the article: 'Some of its features were indisputably Shi’ite, and included the veneration of Ali and the twelve Imams. But in the instance of Ali, this veneration carried over into actual deification, so that Ali was represented as an incarnation of God. Muhammad was his visible veil and prophet, and Muhammad’s companion, Salman al-Farisi, his proselytizer. The three formed a divine triad, but the deification of Ali represented the touchstone of Alawi belief. Astral gnosticism and metemspychosis (transmigration of souls) also figured in Alawi cosmology.'

So reincarnation?

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