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In the Name of God بسم الله

Ayatullah Basheer Najafi- Controversial Vid (Urdu)

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  • Veteran Member

Salam.

 

This video is being shared on social media on a huge scale.

 

https://www.facebook.com/71829187548/videos/10153262969542549/?fref=nf

 

In this video, Ayatullah Basheer Hussain najafi has made some statements which would seem controversial to some members .

 

Some of them are plain wrong. i am saying them they are wrong because they are not related to religion. They are related to matter of facts. For example, He said 100 years ago there were 3 shias in Punjab and now half of the population of Pakistan is shia. which is not true in both cases. 

Besides encouraging tatbir and qama, He supported wounding under age kids on their head in the name of Imam Hussain [AS] .

He said that I am wali e Faqih too and i order the people to do khoob tatbir, do khoob qama, do khoob matam on fire.

 

 

 

 

I request all members to keep the debate clean and avoid personal attacks. So this thread does not result in being locked.

 

wasalam.

Edited by AnaAmmar1
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  • Veteran Member

Salam.

 

This video is being shared on social media on a huge scale.

 

https://www.facebook.com/71829187548/videos/10153262969542549/?fref=nf

 

In this video, Ayatullah Basheer Hussain najafi has made some statements which would seem controversial to some members .

 

Some of them are plain wrong. i am saying them they are wrong because they are not related to religion. They are related to matter of facts. For example, He said 100 years ago there were 3 shias in Punjab and now half of the population of Pakistan is shia. which is not true in both cases. 

Besides encouraging tatbir and qama, He supported wounding under age kids on their head in the name of Imam Hussain [AS] .

He said that I am wali e Faqih too and i order the people to do khoob tatbir, do khoob qama, do khoob matam on fire.

 

I request all members to keep the debate clean and avoid personal attacks. So this thread does not result in being locked.

 

wasalam.

 

Urdu is not my language, so correct me if I am wrong. Nearer the beginning does he not say that there is no taqlid in the matter of discerning if these acts give Islam a bad name? He says don't do them if you think they give Islam a bad name (at 4:37). But then later he tells people with a lot of emotion and emphasis to do them.

 

His own official website says:

 

 Bismahe Subhana

 
It is permitted unless Maula Imam Hussain’s (as) and the Ahl-ul-Bayt’s persecution are considered as propaganda or if he is not allowed by his doctor because it might result in death or losing of a body part. Matam-qama or matam-zanjeer should not be done if he is settled in a part of the world where people due to their ignorance or lack of knowledge about Imam Hussain (as) after watching such matam are turned away from Imam Hussain (as). Therefore it should be avoided in front of such people.
 
Allah Knows Better
 
 
The Office of
 
The Grand Ayatollah Al Uzma Sheikh Basheer Hussain Najafi
 
Najaf e Ashraf
 
Iraq

http://www.alnajafi.org/questions-and-answers/40-fiqh/58-question-on-qama-and-zanjeer-zani.html

 

So was his advice for people in Pakistan?

Edited by Muhammed Ali
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Urdu is not my language, so correct me if I am wrong. Nearer the beginning does he not say that there is no taqlid in the matter of discerning if these acts give Islam a bad name? He says don't do them if you think they give Islam a bad name (at 4:37). But then later he tells people with a lot of emotion and emphasis to do them.

 

It's a second language for me, but I think your assessment is correct. He also says previously (2.12) that accounts of how to remember what happened to Imam Husain (a.s.) are very limited. All that the accounts do say is that the remembrance should be undertaken and that cultures vary in terms of how that remembrance should be undertaken.

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It's a second language for me, but I think your assessment is correct. He also says previously (2.12) that accounts of how to remember what happened to Imam Husain (a.s.) are very limited. All that the accounts do say is that the remembrance should be undertaken and that cultures vary in terms of how that remembrance should be undertaken.

 

Thank you :)

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A lots of us are going to Karbala Ziaraat this year and in future inshAllah.

 

I would highly recommend to get an audience with Ay. Bashir Hussain Najafi and ask him in person of this opinion.

 

It is very easy to forge the sounds and many words could be misworded with similar lip movements. Social media is full of such trickeries and is also a famous pastime joke on popular TV shows in Asia and Middle East where an identical lip movement voice over is used on celebrities and politicians to get a laugh at it.

 

In other words VERIFY VERIFY VERIFY

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Wow he's talking about beating kids with sticks and slaps if they don't pray by 7 years of age..I don't think children should be scared into saying their prayers..that's just disturbing and not the way a child's mind works...

 

But apart from that, they say there's a verse in the Quran that deems it haram for us to harm our bodies...then how would things like matam and tatbir etc. be permissble?

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Wow he's talking about beating kids with sticks and slaps if they don't pray by 7 years of age..I don't think children should be scared into saying their prayers..that's just disturbing and not the way a child's mind works...

But apart from that, they say there's a verse in the Quran that deems it haram for us to harm our bodies...then how would things like matam and tatbir etc. be permissble?

If the Qur'an deems something haram, then it's impermissible to contradict the Qur'an and make the haram permissible, especially in light of this ayah: "Say, "Have you seen what Allah has sent down to you of provision of which you have made [some] lawful and [some] unlawful?" Say, "Has Allah permitted you [to do so], or do you invent [something] about Allah ?" (10:59, Saheeh International)

That's how I understand the situation so far, but I cannot understand Urdu very well. So I can't watch the video and give a more in - depth thought.

Edited by Gaius I. Caesar
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1

Wow he's talking about beating kids with sticks and slaps if they don't pray by 7 years of age..I don't think children should be scared into saying their prayers..that's just disturbing and not the way a child's mind works...

 

But apart from that, they say there's a verse in the Quran that deems it haram for us to harm our bodies...then how would things like matam and tatbir etc. be permissble?

Disciplining children is not a problem unless one exceeds the limits, like punching his son hard on the nose that blood starts coming out.

Which verse is that?

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Disciplining children is not a problem unless one exceeds the limits, like punching his son hard on the nose that blood starts coming out.

Which verse is that?

I don't know the verse - I just heard it from my inlaws and a few other Sunnis I used to know growing up

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Somehow I don't think this is a legitimate video. Wouldn't the parents have to pay blood money if they cut their child's head? I'm pretty sure that the Sharia says so.

 

I don't think a person who is thinking straight would suggest that getting your child's blood all over their own body is the means to attract them to the path of Imam Hussain (as) .

 

I have a strong feeling that this applies to Qama-zani too

 

2814. If a person scratches the skin of a man's head or face, he should give 1/100 of the diyah of the murder of person as mentioned in Article 2807; if the wound reaches the flesh and tears it also to some extent he should give 1/50 of the said diyah if it tears the flesh a good deal, he should give 3/100 of the said diyah; if it reaches the delicate cover of the bones he should give 1/25 of the diyah; if the bones become apparent he should give 1/20 of the diyah; if the bone is fractured he should give 1/10 of the diyah; if some tiny bits of bone come out of their place he should give 3/20 of the diyah and if it reaches the surface of the brain, he should give 33/100 of the diyah.

2820. If a person beats a chid so much that diyah becomes obligatory that diyah is the property of the child; and if the child dies the diyah should be given to his heirs. And if for example, a father beats his child so much that the latter dies. the diyah will be taken by other heirs of the child and his father will get nothing out of it.

Edited by silasun
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Somehow I don't think this is a legitimate video. Wouldn't the parents have to pay blood money if they cut their child's head? I'm pretty sure that the Sharia says so.

 

I don't think a person who is thinking straight would suggest that getting your child's blood all over their own body is the means to attract them to the path of Imam Hussain (as) .

Exactly - that's wrong on so many levels. If it were me I'd want to run away from all events and thoughts concerning Imam Hussain (AS) if anyone did that to me...

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Main ek point ko strike karna chahta hoon

---------

Lafz " Khoob Karo " fatwe ko padhte hue nahi liya ja sakta , jab unhone fatwe me

" Matam-qama or matam-zanjeer should not be done if he is settled in a part of the world where people due to their ignorance or lack of knowledge about Imam Hussain (as) after watching such matam are turned away from Imam Hussain (as). Therefore it should be avoided in front of such people. "

kyonki agar yeh video me woh kahte ki yeh mehez Iraq, iran ke liye hai jahan majority Shia hai aur cheezon ko samajhti hai tab khoob karo ka istemaal jaiz tha. Lekin kyonki unhone khud istemaal kiya hai fatwe me jo unki website per hai " Ignorance or lack of knowledge about Imam Hussain (as) " to woh khoob karo khud ishkaal hai, Khoob karo usi kaam ko kaha ja sakta hai jahan aqal ka istemaal baad me aaye aur kaam pahle kiya jaye. Jaise Pani pilana , khana khilana, kisi ki madad karna. Isme koi bina soche bhi khoob kare to bhi koi harj nahi hai.

Per aisa amal jisme sochna pade ki iska nateeja kya hoga usme pahle Aqal ko tajee deni hai aur amal ko baad me, aise me lafz " Khoob karo " ki bajaye " Ahtiyaat se karo " ana chahiye tha.

Edited by alirex
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^ It doesn't matter where one is settled in this digital age.

 

Personally, if blood-letting is an issue for the sensitive then the fatwa should be put on the images and videos that distribute the act. There is no better compromise than this if there is the slightest of care for Shi'i unity.

 

Other than that, completely agree with abbas110 and Irani313 for advocating verification. Too much digital falsehood about. However, I can verify. He is pro-tatbiri as was confirmed by my uncle who personally asked him. In my uncle's words, he said that Ayatullah Basheer said "bring it and I will do it as well", that is, tatbir.

Edited by StayingHalal
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Bashir Najafi's stance has been the same for as long as I have seen/read him. Several other marja e taqleed hold the same view so people that are against blood-rituals need to tone down their opposition to these rituals. I personally, for myself, do not see much value in these rituals but out of respect I am careful not to do/say anything to hurt sentiments of my fellow believers.

 

If there is a need to tone down the opposition in order not to hurt the sentiments of the proponents, then there would be a need to tone down the promotion in order not to hurt the sentiments of the opposition?

 

When rights and desires conflict, there has to be a means to determine the correct course of action.

 

E.g. freedom of speech vs copyright.

Edited by Muhammed Ali
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The one thing I don't get is, almost all the Maraje, even those who allow it, agree that we shouldn't do it if it gives Shi'as a bad image. So, the usual fatwa is do it if your social conditions allow and don't if it gives Shi'as a bad image. While such a fatwa would work 50 years ago, today, we live in a global culture. Even if Pakistani non-Shi'as are used to it, even if they didn't use it as ammunition against Shi'as, it doesn't matter because someone will upload the video to YouTube and millions of Westerners, who have no such concept, would watch it. It doesn't matter where you are, if we are to stick with the current fatwa, I don't think anyone can do it because it will give Shi'as a bad name.

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I don't know the verse - I just heard it from my inlaws and a few other Sunnis I used to know growing up

Always ask them for their sources ;)

Well, we have met the Ayatollah when we went for ziyarat in Rajab. The question about blood matam did not arise though, judging from the answers he gave to other questions and other things he said (he seems to be a rather emotional person), I very much believe that this is probably his stance on the issue. Which I don't mean any disrespect in saying so - didn't we already know that there are also marjas who do not forbid blood letting, after all?

Though, he does say that everyone is supposed to use their aql and if they come to the conclusion that any act of theirs will 'insult' Islam (like many believe blood letting does) then, they should refrain from doing it [and as brother Khadim mentions, in today's world it would harm Islam/Shia madhab, no matter what]. He also mentions (after the do it 'khoob') to only do it as long as it's done for Imam Husayn's [a] grief (whatever that means) - from what it looks like to me, many people do blood letting for show. Or to they also do it in privat at home, away from the public and any cameras? Though, I might be mistaken here, of course. Furthermore, he seems to encourage blood donation, if I am not mistaken.

Hm. Well, if that is his opnion, it is his opinion, I guess. He has points I'd disagree with strongly and few, I'd agree with and respect (not restricting this statement to the video).

Allah knows best.

Btw, do we have any authentic hadiths stating that one should wail loudly while crying for al-Husayn [a]? And the facts about the number of Shia in Pakistan 100 years ago - very, very doubtful. There have been Shia throughout history in India/Pakistan, and definitely not that little.

Ma asalama.

Edited by Noor al-Batul
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When a cleric leave issues on mercy of public, it will worsen the situation..

 

Now obviously we have to wait for more new and strange ways of mourning.

 

Take a look of similar situation:

 

Qama Zani on the death of Ayatullah Muhammad Sadiq Sadr

 

http://shia-online.ir/article.asp?id=14647

Edited by Qamar Abbas
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A lots of us are going to Karbala Ziaraat this year and in future inshAllah.

 

I would highly recommend to get an audience with Ay. Bashir Hussain Najafi and ask him in person of this opinion.

 

It is very easy to forge the sounds and many words could be misworded with similar lip movements. Social media is full of such trickeries and is also a famous pastime joke on popular TV shows in Asia and Middle East where an identical lip movement voice over is used on celebrities and politicians to get a laugh at it.

 

In other words VERIFY VERIFY VERIFY

 

This video has been uploaded by Ayatullah Basheer najafi's official FB page so it is authentic.

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I follow Ayatuallah Sistani, and this issue of Tatbir has been coming up for a couple of years now, I happen to stumble upon the website http://tatbir.org/ -> Fatawa,  where Syed Sistani pretty much gave the same verdict as Ayutullah Khoei.  Anyways, I called Syed Sistanis Wakeel named Imam Sahlani at Al Khoei (https://www.al-khoei.org/) about these bloodletting rituals and he made it abundantly clear, not once, numerous times during our conversation that Sayed Sistani has not issued a direct verdict on this issue but according to Syed Sistani, if any action harms you and/or presents Islam in a negative fashion, that action is Haram.  I pointed out to him that these bloodletting rituals do harm you and present a negative image of Islam and Karbala so why is Syed Sistani not issuing a clear cut verdict to which he simply asked us to follow the above two rules in case of Tatbir. I would like to point out he was very adamant for us to follow the above two rules mentioned by Syed Sistani.

To Contact: Imam Sahlani – Waqeel of Syed Sistani –  8989 Van Wyck Expressway, Jamaica NY 11435 USA P: +1 (718) 297 6520 | F: +1 (718) 658 5530

 

Now lets see what Ayatuallah Khoei and Ayatually Sistani are saying:

 

#1: Yes, Zajeer/Qama zani , hurts you, not only that, blood is najas and blood comes out, splatters on Alams, people around you, walls, Holy names etc making everything Najas. Furthermore, how do you offer prayers since as soon as you go in Rakoo or Sajdah, the wounds start to bleed, especially the old ones that have no muscle under them but simply scarring. I am sure those of us who have done it, know what I am talking about? How can an Intentional, self-inflicted act that invalidates your prayers can be halal?

 

#2: Yes, its absolutely distorts the image of Karbalah and Islam, no doubt. The point is if we are going to do something under the banner of Hussain, we have to make sure that we don’t do anything that nullifies his sacrifice and his stand.

 

Ayutullah Sistani, Khamenai, Khomeni, Al-Khoei and Baqar al Sadr are against blood letting rituals.

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I am very shocked that he is encouraging people to put cuts on kids' heads or beating 7 years old with sticks if they miss prayers. He was probably pressurized to say all these things. I think desi scholars get dictations from people about what they can say . Sometimes it feels like there are so many different religions within Shia sect and people claiming to be Shias follow completely different religions.

Edited by Mokhtar2012
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I couldn't get my head around beating kids to get them to say their prayers and cutting their heads in the name of Hussain (AS) - there are so many other ways you can get children interested in Islam - and I think learning the message of Hussain (AS) and acting on it is far more important than indulging in these blood rituals ... 

 

but of course, that's just my two cents

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I couldn't get my head around beating kids to get them to say their prayers and cutting their heads in the name of Hussain (as) - there are so many other ways you can get children interested in Islam - and I think learning the message of Hussain (as) and acting on it is far more important than indulging in these blood rituals ... 

 

but of course, that's just my two cents

 

I dont know about cutting heads of children but Parents are allowed to use limited force ( with certain boundaries) to get their children to pray. 

You are absolutely right about the second thing.

Beating is rarely useful to draw attraction and affection. It has more negatives than positives.

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Beating is not allowed as per Ayatollah Sayyid Ali Sistani .

 

Reference : http://www.sistani.org/urdu/qa/01756/( URDU )

 

سوال: کس حد تک اپنی اولاد پر نماز اور حجاب کے لیے جبر کیا جا سکتا ہے؟

جواب: اگر بالغ ہوں تو امر بالمعروف اور نہی عن المنکر کیا جا سکتا ہے اور احتیاط واجب کی بناء پر حاکم شرع کی اجازت کے بغیر ان کو مارنا پیٹنا جایز نہیں ہے۔ ہاں ان کی مدد (مالی اور دوسری) بند کرنے والے طریقے سے فائدہ اٹھا کر انہیں سدہارا جا سکتا ہے۔
 
 
The red line indicates without permission from " Hakim e Sharah " beating is not allowed.
 
I read somewhere in Ayatollah Sistani rules , if there comes any scratch or print of fingers on skin of kid due to beating .. Diyat become valid for it.
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Keeping the issue a side, this clip expose his personal envy and jealousy for an another scholar.

خواص بی بصیرت

 

we have to give him benefit of the doubt.

 

What if he is talking about the welayat a mujtahid has on its Muqallideen.

Edited by AnaAmmar1
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Give little stress on technical points in the Video. This video is flipped at 11:43 .. If you checked he was continue while video designer overlapper another shot.

 

Second check " zabaan ko uske asal se kato,  Shah saab khuda aapko zinda salaamat rakhe " .. Who is this Shah saab and what he was doing there and for what purpose he was there ?

Edited by alirex
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For me, he lost his authencity when he said there were only 3 Shias some 100 years before..

And please correct me, it seems Statement contradiction as well.

In beginning he used taunting language "listen o molvi" (an awkward language not appropriate with his post) and said this issue is not subject to taqleed, every one has a right to judge whether this act harms the religion or not, and one MUST act according to his own conclusion....

Suddenly he took back the right and said I am wali faqeeh and ORDERING you to perform it.

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What if he is talking about the welayat a mujtahid has on its Muqallideen.

 

I would not say much beacuse it may divert the topic.

 

Muqallideen have to follow their Mujtahid in Jurisprudence issues only.. Mujtahideen never owns wilayat over their muqallideen 

 

Wilayat is a status for one leadership... i.e Supreme Leadership

 

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Can someone explain wali faqeeh and related concepts to me?

Salam

Wali means gaurdian. The father is the wali of his children not the mother. If father passed away,the eldest son become the wali over his younger children. If the eldest brother is a child then the wali is the paternal grandfather or the paternal uncle.

If the children hs no paternal uncles then their maternal uncles become the gaurdian. If the children no family then thir wali is the faqih.

faqih means the one who knows with accurecy . Faqih was used to refer to Muslim jurists. So the local judge will be the gaurdian over those who have no wali. Usually this is hard to achieve without some authority.

Imam Ali was known to visit the orphan houses and even cook for them but not as carity work, he took it as his duty as wali of the whole members of ummah thus has to take care of every single person.

This wilyah of the faqih exist in all Muslim schools. In shia school it had been practiced in limited manner. Limited wilayah to make sure that the locals affairs work well. But to take care of the leadership of the whole community is preserved to the imams only.

Sayyid Khomaini argued AND worked on bringing wilaiat faqih to practice and authority. There had been sime who wrote about this wf with authority but non made it into practice.

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Are people against tatbir or its proliferation in social media?

 

I see 10 people doing tatbir and 100 taking their pics and videos. To what end?

 

Out of 300m shias in the world (may be more), I'd imagine 2m-3m do tatbir so about 1%. Surely we can focus our efforts elsewhere.

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Are people against tatbir or its proliferation in social media?

 

I see 10 people doing tatbir and 100 taking their pics and videos. To what end?

 

Out of 300m shias in the world (may be more), I'd imagine 2m-3m do tatbir so about 1%. Surely we can focus our efforts elsewhere.

 

Let me continue:

I see 10 people doing tatbir and 100 taking their pics and videos, and hundred thousands are watching and making fun of Islam...

 

It wouldn't be the matter of concern for me, if it doesn't pose threat to Shia's Image throughout the world..

 

Even if a single man destroys an image of Islam we must defend that...

 

Take a look how:

 

https://www.facebook.com/Mashrabe.Naab/videos/661242020661494/

Edited by talib e ilm
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