The Anti-Sunni Sentiment On These Boards

guest050817 · October 30, 2015

Salamunalaykum,

I am going to try and address the anti-sunni sentiment we somtimes see on these boards. The topic of shia-sunni unity, and these days shia-shia divisions over shia-sunni unity is a very pertinent topic, and one that needs to be addresed before ego's previal, schisms appear, and outside enemies can take advantage of our disadvantage.

Often you find some shia's who say there is no use to strive for unity. Who begin to make fun of our brothers and sisters in the ahlul-sunnah school of thought. Who begin to throw around the label of 'wahhabi' and 'salafi' left, right and centre. Often among members of this group you find those who hold strong views - and i am not refuting strong views, such as practising self-mutilation/blood letting, whipping- rather, the idea that because someone is strongly against this, they aren't proper shia's, or are merely trying to appease 'sunni's.

There is no doubt due to media, due to the actions of some shia's, there is in many parts of the world, a feeling of aminosity between shia's and sunni's.

However, try to step into the shoes of a sunni muslim for a second here:

1. You see some shia's whipping themselves, cutting the scalps of babies, engaging in gross acts of self-mutilation and making an overall joke and mockery of the religion.

2. A number of shia's a minority , the vocal very overzealous of them who own channels advocating: Aisha murdered the prophet pbuh (which is not agreed as a consensus in the shia school by the way at all), or Aisha commited Zina(again, it is not that the rest of us are using taqqiyah it's just the fact many of us and many of our ulema refute or do not hold these beliefs, and a minority of us are set out to just accuse the same person over anything, no matter how scant the evidence), the second Calip was a homosexual etc. Imagine someone said this about Aba abdillah Hussain a.s ? How much would your blood boil ?

We need to when approaching our sunni brothers, swallow our ego's and recognise that due to the media, due to the actions of a minority of us, and perhaps to another level due to many of our beliefs which they may not properly understand or which may contradict their own, there will be anmosity sadly , and disgreement.

Therefore it is the shia who i say ought to be more patient. Ought to overlook insults or jibes, and try to punch above their weight and -using intellect and not emotion- kindly and in the most loving way address claims.

It's the same approach with a sunni or shia muslim promoting islam. There is widespread misinformation. We can't just lash out on those misinformed because of the careless actions of a minority of us. We need to overlook insults or harshness , give non-muslims the benefit of the doubt etc.

How did rasullah s.a.w address those who opposed him or were rude to him? The same for the ahlulbayt a.s. They were the water to the fire, the reason to the uncontrolled emotion. The humility to the ego.

When you're debating - and i speak to myself first- our sunni brothers , put emotions to one side as well as ego's - no matter how hard it can be.If even after using cordial language and reason they are still hostile, then agree to disagree, don't lash out.We are already a minority, with a lot of media against us. We can not afford to fall for the trap and lash our in anger, it'll only feed the never ending cycle.It's saddening to hear our sunni brothers spoken about with venom, or ego, or disdain. That's not how our mentality ought to be. I have sunni family, extensively, whom i know and visit.

Even those of you who believe in the things not agreed on, beleive every rumour without evidence, blood-let, etc, even you can help reduce damage by being respectful atleast.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Tawheed313

Sumerian · October 30, 2015

As for the homosexual thing, I think this is because (I think) the Shi'a have a hadith which says whoever calls himself Amir al-Mu'mineen and is not Imam Ali is a homosexual.

I think I have seen this somewhere

Noor al Batul · October 30, 2015

There is no doubt due to media, due to the actions of some shia's, there is in many parts of the world, a feeling of aminosity between shia's and sunni's.

And due to no action of some Sunnis, at all?

While I agree with the general message of your post (unity), more or less, reading your post it actually sounds as if Shia are responsible for the sectarian differences. Maybe that's not what you wanted to bring across, but that's what it sounds like to me. Why only blame yourself? With such thinking, you are putting yourself down, actually. I'm not sure if it's healthy. Though, I've noticed that in a lot of your posts, brother. You ought to work on that- if someone has the wrong impression about you and your faith, it's seldom your fault, unless, of course, you have done anything to create a wrong impression.

And let's be honest, you find a majority (or, at least, a lot) of Shia trying to strife for unity, don't you? Which is not anything to be taken as granted, mind you, because you can say "Wahabi" or "Salafi" as much as you want, for most laymen these groups are extremist Sunnis who go around killing and oppressing innocents (Shia), and then you have others either supporting these actions or keeping quiet, altogether. So, resentment on the Shia-side is even understandable, to a certain extent. Obviously, there are also those Shia extremists who don't respect anyone or anything and paint a bad image but I seriously doubt they are that large in number, and we cannot hold ourselves responsible for the actions of a few. We can speak out against it, promote our own views/view of the majority, but not start blaming ourselves for things others do or believe- that won't get you anywhere.

But, as much as we wish to, you can't clap with only one hand. I don't say that no Sunni is ready for unity, many are - but many are not, as well. You won't reach unity if only one group works at themselves while the other stays a silent spectator. Everyone needs to do something.

I am not against unity, by the way. What I am against is self-blame and such; making yourself look smaller than you are and believing that if someone "dislikes" you and your beliefs, the fault must lay with yourself alone. Don't be this self-conscious!

And Allah knows best.

wasalam.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Noor al-Batul

guest050817 · October 30, 2015

And due to no action of some Sunnis, at all?

Walaykumsalam,

Sister i feel you have misunderstood my post.

What i was trying to argue is that ofcourse, you have some 'sunni's' who by their actions sow disunity, hatred, disagreement. You also have a number who have animosity, confusion and hatred towards shia's.

However, what i am trying to say is, due to the widespread information about shia's, due to the minority engaging in questionable acts, we need to treat our sunni brothers the way we treat any large body of group misinformed about us. I gave the example of muslims and non-muslims. Due to the actions of terrorists, misinformation spreading , many are against Islam. This does not absolve everyone against Islam - including those purposefully hating them and sowing discord.

Rather what i wish to suggest is we need to acknowledge there are many misinformed people, who will act with animosity towards shia's, and however difficult it is to resist responding like for like, hatred for hatred, questioning for questioning, to swallow patience and just be cordial - no matter how rude or questioning the other party is for the simple reason that shi'ism especially due to media propaganda has indoctrinated many otherwise good people with false belief and misinformation, and the only way we can do away with that is to keep our own dignity, respect, and be more patient than we expect ourselves to be.

On another note, resentment of shia's towards the terrorists or oppresive groups is understanble. However, it is dangerous for shia's to then take this resentment out to all sunni's - even those who dislike shia's (simply because they are misinformed).

I have sunni family and have extensively put myself in areas , message boards, real life around sunni's. I find that the best way to bring shia-sunni unity is to overlook insults, or animosity. Why? They are simply misinformed. Ofcourse, some are very well informed and continue in their struggle for discord and disunity, but we can't throw the baby with the bath water.

I have first hand seen peoples attitudes soften by using that approach VS an eye for an eye approach. At a time when shia's worldwide are oppressed and many of us are posting safe from our homes in the west , it makes the case for softening animosity and bridging gaps even more important.

As for the homosexual thing, I think this is because (I think) the Shi'a have a hadith which says whoever calls himself Amir al-Mu'mineen and is not Imam Ali is a homosexual.
I think I have seen this somewhere

Tbh, i won't question or belittle that hadith until i've seen it. Would like a graded reference. It seems a little bit questionable and a little strange. Besides the point , it hardly makes someone an actual homosexual.

I've seen shia's use sunni bukhari hadiths, take them out of context, to prove x or y was a homosexual. That's not right.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Tawheed313

Muhsin_Ali · October 30, 2015

I think some of this has to do with where a person is located and spends their time. At least in Turkey in the masajid you won't find many Salafis, and as long as you don't have a problem with anyone or start trouble everything is A O K. However if someone spends a lot of time on the internet they're bound to run into Salafis left and right. That being said if the Shi'a community is too busy cursing Sunni figures those moderate Sunnis in the masajid are going to be disgusted from the faith. I asked my father in law what he thought about the Shi'a and the first thing and only thing he said was "Anyone who curses the companions and wives of the Prophet is an enemy". I know I'm new here but I come from a Salafi background, and I would definitely say there's a barrier for Sunnis that at are interested in Shi'a Islam. Every bit of patience and not stooping to the level of those with no akhlaq can go a long, long way. If it weren't for the brothers both here in Turkey and on the internet that show respect and kindness no matter what kind of misconceptions I carried, I would've never found the teaching of ahlul bayt.

I'm not posting this to blame anything on the Shi'a, however I think it's a good point that needs to be made, that some Sunnis / Salafis are so burrowed in their misconceptions that gentleness and compassion is needed towards them.

Tonks · October 30, 2015

Salamunalaykum,

I am going to try and address the anti-sunni sentiment we somtimes see on these boards. The topic of shia-sunni unity, and these days shia-shia divisions over shia-sunni unity is a very pertinent topic, and one that needs to be addresed before ego's previal, schisms appear, and outside enemies can take advantage of our disadvantage.

Often you find some shia's who say there is no use to strive for unity. Who begin to make fun of our brothers and sisters in the ahlul-sunnah school of thought. Who begin to throw around the label of 'wahhabi' and 'salafi' left, right and centre. Often among members of this group you find those who hold strong views - and i am not refuting strong views, such as practising self-mutilation/blood letting, whipping- rather, the idea that because someone is strongly against this, they aren't proper shia's, or are merely trying to appease 'sunni's.

There is no doubt due to media, due to the actions of some shia's, there is in many parts of the world, a feeling of aminosity between shia's and sunni's.

However, try to step into the shoes of a sunni muslim for a second here:

1. You see some shia's whipping themselves, cutting the scalps of babies, engaging in gross acts of self-mutilation and making an overall joke and mockery of the religion.

2. A number of shia's a minority , the vocal very overzealous of them who own channels advocating: Aisha murdered the prophet pbuh (which is not agreed as a consensus in the shia school by the way at all), or Aisha commited Zina(again, it is not that the rest of us are using taqqiyah it's just the fact many of us and many of our ulema refute or do not hold these beliefs, and a minority of us are set out to just accuse the same person over anything, no matter how scant the evidence), the second Calip was a homosexual etc. Imagine someone said this about Aba abdillah Hussain a.s ? How much would your blood boil ?

We need to when approaching our sunni brothers, swallow our ego's and recognise that due to the media, due to the actions of a minority of us, and perhaps to another level due to many of our beliefs which they may not properly understand or which may contradict their own, there will be anmosity sadly , and disgreement.

Therefore it is the shia who i say ought to be more patient. Ought to overlook insults or jibes, and try to punch above their weight and -using intellect and not emotion- kindly and in the most loving way address claims.

It's the same approach with a sunni or shia muslim promoting islam. There is widespread misinformation. We can't just lash out on those misinformed because of the careless actions of a minority of us. We need to overlook insults or harshness , give non-muslims the benefit of the doubt etc.

How did rasullah s.a.w address those who opposed him or were rude to him? The same for the ahlulbayt a.s. They were the water to the fire, the reason to the uncontrolled emotion. The humility to the ego.

When you're debating - and i speak to myself first- our sunni brothers , put emotions to one side as well as ego's - no matter how hard it can be.If even after using cordial language and reason they are still hostile, then agree to disagree, don't lash out.We are already a minority, with a lot of media against us. We can not afford to fall for the trap and lash our in anger, it'll only feed the never ending cycle.It's saddening to hear our sunni brothers spoken about with venom, or ego, or disdain. That's not how our mentality ought to be. I have sunni family, extensively, whom i know and visit.

Even those of you who believe in the things not agreed on, beleive every rumour without evidence, blood-let, etc, even you can help reduce damage by being respectful atleast.

Excellent post. I agree with you 110%.

Noor al Batul · October 30, 2015

Walaykumsalam,
Sister i feel you have misunderstood my post.

ws, brother.

I don't think I misunderstood your post, actually, as I know what you want to convey with it (which is a positive message). I mean, I wrote "reading your post sounds like" and that I am aware that this might not be what you wanted the post to sound like. I don't disagree with the notion that we should reach out towards Sunni brothers and sisters with compassion and patience as it is true that there exists a lot of misinformation about the Shia madhab. What I dissagreed with was the indication that Shia are mostly to blame for it (even if a minority) and hence, ought to work on themselves- again, I stress that that's probably not what you intended to do - it just came off as such (to me, at least). I didn't mean my comment as an offence or attack or anything, and apologize if that is what it looked like.

On another note, there are hardly any Shia living around my area and we have mostly Sunni family friends etc... I know that it's easily possible to live peacefully together. But it's not everywhere like this; people living in different areas and circumstances will have differing thoughts on the matter - if we want to reach out, we need to reach out to everyone, Shia (who have a mostly negative view of Sunnis; and also for a Shia-unity, actually) and Sunnis (those who are truly willing to learn) with patience and compassion.

wasalam.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Noor al-Batul

Irfani313 · October 30, 2015

Salam - I've been reading Shia Chat as a non member for years and I can tell you I have never read any Anti-Sunni entiment on SC. No Shia or SC memebr has ever called for Sunnis to be exterminated, have never labelled them kafir, have never called for their posessions to be halal for Shia, have never called for any kind of verbal or physical violence against Sunnis.

Yes - I've read many times very pointed attacks on Sunni aqeeda which needs to happen more and there is no reason to stop from it. Sunni aqeeda has so many holes in it that it is very easy for Sunnis to revert back to real Islam of the Prophet and Ahlulbayt only if they open up their minds for a fair and sincere reflection.

**ShiaMan14** · October 30, 2015

The Prophet was sent to us as rehmat-ul-alameen. As such, the biggest sunnah we can follow is to be a rehmat for fellow man whether they are shia, sunni, christian, hindu, etc. That includes not offending people in any manner.

The Shia/Sunni Dialogue is a perfect forum to debate/discuss/disagree on issues but there is no reason it cannot be done with peace, reason, logic and intellect. A great example is the debate between Sultanu'l-Wa’adhim Shirazi and Hafiz Muhammad Rashid & Sheikh Abdu's-Salam in Peshwar Nights.

I recently heard a speech from a well respected maulana that from the 80s, the main target for the West has been division of Muslims. They simply cannot have 1bn+ united. So initially the thought was to create the shia sunni split using the iran-iraq war as catalyst. Following that, the strategy now has become to create rift within the respected sects - so sunni on sunni conflict and shia on shia conflict. According to him, US/CIA is heavily involved with the sunni organizations and MI6 has been working on the shia-shia conflict.

He pointed to some TV channels (Salam TV and Hussain TV?) saying there role is to discredit the Marjaeiat and infuse false aqeedah in our midst. Some examples:

say ali un wali Allah in tashahud in salah
saying insha-ali instead of inshallah
telling people not to celebrate eid because it is the 10th day of Imam Ali's martyrdom.
making la'an the focus of the religion when in reality it is a negligible part of faith (not to be confused with tabarra - distancing oneself from the enemies of Ahlul-Bayt)
He specifically mentioned Mujtaba Shirazi and his anti-marja stand.
personally I think Yasir Al-Habeeb is one of these people too. He was a no-name cleric in Kuwait who was jailed by fitna. Then all of a sudden, he was freed, moved to UK and 'received' a grant of over $2m to open a facility and preach. He is pretty much anti-anyone who is pro-unity or pro-marja.

all of us including me are over-emotional and under-intelligent when it comes to faith when the hallmark of a momin should be over-intelligent and under-emotional kind of like Malik-e-Ashtar. more than military prowess, Malik was Imam's commander for his foresight and intelligence.

Anyway, enough conspiracy theories from me. The old British strategy of divide and rule is still in play.

FromShiaSunniBrotherhood · October 30, 2015

Sunnis and Shias IF both learn Islam with open eyes, would realize we have a lot more in common than the things that divide us. Honestly and sadly every Muslim is encouraged to follow WHAT THEIR PARENTS FEED THEM IN NAME OF RELIGION, AND ADOPT A SECT IN THE FAMILY THEY ARE BORN IN. The problem lies where over time of 1400 years a lot of fabricators who happened to become the Islamic Fundamentalists added things to fuel both extremes of Shias and Sunnis and gained acknowledment in Muslim society solely because of the fact that PEOPLE STOPPED LEARNING RELIGION ON THEIR OWN.

I have tried telling some close Sunni people what happened in history and you would be surprised how accepting i found them (i never use lanatullah aleih in my speech, ever).

Likewise I was speaking over the phone with my Shia Best friend and asked her about somewhere i could go hear a majlis with a condition the person at the pulpit does NOT make la'an, she laughed in my face and said real scholars never say such stuff from the pulpit, that was my happiest moment from today!

We are facing multiple enemies. Before we could worry only about the Shaitaan, now it's shaitan, dajjal, gog and maggog all attacking us from all sides, hungry for us to fight and kill each other. This article proves how Shia Sunni split was manufactured by the Zionists. LET'S MAKE SURE THEY FAIL AT IT.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3008556

**power** · October 30, 2015

Salamunalaykum,

I am going to try and address the anti-sunni sentiment we somtimes see on these boards. The topic of shia-sunni unity, and these days shia-shia divisions over shia-sunni unity is a very pertinent topic, and one that needs to be addresed before ego's previal, schisms appear, and outside enemies can take advantage of our disadvantage.

Often you find some shia's who say there is no use to strive for unity. Who begin to make fun of our brothers and sisters in the ahlul-sunnah school of thought. Who begin to throw around the label of 'wahhabi' and 'salafi' left, right and centre. Often among members of this group you find those who hold strong views - and i am not refuting strong views, such as practising self-mutilation/blood letting, whipping- rather, the idea that because someone is strongly against this, they aren't proper shia's, or are merely trying to appease 'sunni's.

There is no doubt due to media, due to the actions of some shia's, there is in many parts of the world, a feeling of aminosity between shia's and sunni's.

However, try to step into the shoes of a sunni muslim for a second here:

1. You see some shia's whipping themselves, cutting the scalps of babies, engaging in gross acts of self-mutilation and making an overall joke and mockery of the religion.

2. A number of shia's a minority , the vocal very overzealous of them who own channels advocating: Aisha murdered the prophet pbuh (which is not agreed as a consensus in the shia school by the way at all), or Aisha commited Zina(again, it is not that the rest of us are using taqqiyah it's just the fact many of us and many of our ulema refute or do not hold these beliefs, and a minority of us are set out to just accuse the same person over anything, no matter how scant the evidence), the second Calip was a homosexual etc. Imagine someone said this about Aba abdillah Hussain a.s ? How much would your blood boil ?

We need to when approaching our sunni brothers, swallow our ego's and recognise that due to the media, due to the actions of a minority of us, and perhaps to another level due to many of our beliefs which they may not properly understand or which may contradict their own, there will be anmosity sadly , and disgreement.

Therefore it is the shia who i say ought to be more patient. Ought to overlook insults or jibes, and try to punch above their weight and -using intellect and not emotion- kindly and in the most loving way address claims.

It's the same approach with a sunni or shia muslim promoting islam. There is widespread misinformation. We can't just lash out on those misinformed because of the careless actions of a minority of us. We need to overlook insults or harshness , give non-muslims the benefit of the doubt etc.

How did rasullah s.a.w address those who opposed him or were rude to him? The same for the ahlulbayt a.s. They were the water to the fire, the reason to the uncontrolled emotion. The humility to the ego.

When you're debating - and i speak to myself first- our sunni brothers , put emotions to one side as well as ego's - no matter how hard it can be.If even after using cordial language and reason they are still hostile, then agree to disagree, don't lash out.We are already a minority, with a lot of media against us. We can not afford to fall for the trap and lash our in anger, it'll only feed the never ending cycle.It's saddening to hear our sunni brothers spoken about with venom, or ego, or disdain. That's not how our mentality ought to be. I have sunni family, extensively, whom i know and visit.

Even those of you who believe in the things not agreed on, beleive every rumour without evidence, blood-let, etc, even you can help reduce damage by being respectful atleast.

Can you explain why were the Imams of Ahlul bayt (as) persecuted and martyred? Bearing in mind, they had never preached hatred against the Sunnis! This continuous notion that you keep putting forward that: Shia's whipping themselves, cutting the scalps of babies, engaging in gross acts of self-mutilation and making an overall joke and mockery of the religion. This was not practised in the era of the Imams of Ahlul Bayt (as) YET THEY WERE MARTYRED!!

I have said this before, why would the majority want unity with the minority? And why should the minority cave into the majority because of our practices, and how much of our faith do we have to compromise for the sake of unity??

Finally, when two parties unite, compromises has to be made from both parties, now, how do you intend unite with various factions within Sunnism? And how much are we willing to compromise with various factions in Sunnism? I guess you have not done your homework at this stage, because you have not looked at the bigger picture.

Edited October 30, 2015 by power

~ThePond~ · October 30, 2015

Brother, this is a struggle I have been going through for some time. I have resentment in my heart that I do not want. I am currently writing a story that alludes to sectarian conflict, and I have a particular character that is basically Sunni (I never state outright that they are Muslim however), and I am portraying him in a way that I admire of Sunnis. I also have Shiite characters. It is a way of coping and I hope one day to be able to publish the story as an allegory on unity despite the presence of strife; and this strife is the root of defense and lack of humanity. Ultimately, I hope to convey that one should never forget the goodness inherent in both doctrines; and that to label the other as naturally extremist is a great injustice. So, brother I do appreciate your post. And I am aware that I have voiced anti-Sunni sentiments, though it is a result of struggle within myself.

Edited October 30, 2015 by ~ThePond~

**Akbar673** · October 30, 2015

I think that the day Sunni and Shia agree to disagree we will finally have a peaceful coexistence. Unity, is a different story because there are certain aspects of the Shia faith that they just can't tolerate, while we have the same towards them. However, that does not mean that we can not peacefully coexist.

If we can get along fine with Christians and Jews then why can't we get along with Muslims (well we think of Sunni as Muslims, they on the other hand don't always think of Shia as Muslims).

As I mentioned, when we all agree and see plainly the differences we have and learn to accept them as simply an opposing view then we will get along just fine.

Until then, its all a waste of time to talk about Unity.

Just my opinion.

StrugglingForTheLight · October 30, 2015

I can peacefully co-exist with them. But anyone who is aware of the Ghadeer declaration or aware of proofs of Imamamte and turns away, is no doubt a disbeliever in the sense of the one who rejects clears proofs and guidance. Not all Sunnis are that, but many of them are wilfully ignorant and don't objectively go study Quran and hadiths which itself is a huge injustice towards God's Ayat. Still the ultimate judge is God, but this isn't to down play numerous hadiths we have to testify against the injustice of disbelieving Imammate as well as Quran which emphasizes not to disbelieve in their authority in the flow from 4:52 to 4:59.

**The Green Knight** · October 30, 2015

@OP: Very nice thread. But need some clarification here.

- Care to describe the Sunni first?

- And how do you tell, say, a Salafi from a Sunni especially since the former also claims to be following Abu Hanifa?

- Are followers of Ibn Taymiyah Sunni according to you?

- What countries have Sunni majority?

- Are Salafis, Deobandis, Barelvis, Ahlul Hadith all Sunni? Which ones aren't?

- Are Sufis different? Which ones are Sunni?

Perhaps you are referring to all non-Shia?

Edited October 30, 2015 by Darth Vader

Sumayyeh · October 30, 2015

Brother, Jazakallah Khayr for posting this...I felt the exact same backlash, and when I see that we have members like "sunni man" or whoever reading a post that is totally un-reflective of our Ahlul-bayt's Akhlaq...it's saddening. When we have a Prophet that pays a visit to someone who used to throw trash at him every day, I am disappointed by the manners of some shia chatters... it's like...Bro, you're totally turning me off, let alone a Sunni person.

You are calling out for an end to anti-Sunnism--and that is in no way self-belittling. No one said that we're collectively responsible for hatred directed towards us...but When our Marja Ayatollah Sistani says that our Sunni brethren are to be called more than our brothers--they are to be called a part of our souls...we have a responsibility to uphold this standard as Shia...and to speak out against any rhetoric that says otherwise.

I myself have first-hand been raised by wonderful Sunni teachers and actually grew up in a Sunni school (in the west), praying the way I pray as a Shia in front of them, and letting everyone know that I'm Shia...and it was totally cool. Overall, I had a very positive experience (and faced curious questions from fellow students and teachers) and I have nothing prouder than to say that I'm Shia... I realized that they are just like us, face many of the same issues our youth face, and are struggling to keep their Deen alive, just as much as we are, and they have so many resources that I have been able to advantage of...

Imam Khomeini's speeches should be written in gold because his words ring true for not only when he was alive, but for an eternity. The following is an excerpt from a speech directed towards Pilgrims in Makkah during Hajj season in 1980 (imagine how he would address this topic TODAY:)

"More saddening and dangerous than nationalism is the creation of dissension between Sunnis and Shi'is and diffusion of mischievous propaganda among brother Muslims. Praise and thanks be to God; that no difference exists in our Revolution between these two groups. All are living side by side in friendship and brotherhood. The Sunnis, who are numerous in Iran and live all over the country, have their own ulama and shaykhs; they are all over the country, they are our brothers and equal with us...The powers do not desire the welfare of Islam and the Muslims. The Muslims must dissociate themselves from them, and pay no heed to their divisive propaganda. I extend the hand of brotherhood to all committed Muslims in the world and ask them to regard the Shih'is as cherished brothers and thereby frustrate the sinister plans of foreigners."

Source: Islam and Revolution (Translated by Hamid Algar)

If Imam Khomeini is giving me this message, who is anyone else to claim otherwise? At this point, I'm not even concerned about whether they have heard of Ghadeer Khum before I befriend them. Mr. Darth Vader, we don't need to answer the questions above...unless you're having an academic discussion in an academic environment or taking a Religions Studies class. Here's what you need to be concerned about: our enemies want us to be so caught up in hating each other and fighting...they was to break into a war to finish each other off (Naudhu-billah). Another famous Imam Khomeini line...we're so caught up in bickering over whether we fold up our hands up or not in prayer, that we aren't even noticing the real enemies cutting off our hands.

We have too many Sunni brothers and sisters that are reaching out for unity to make excuses that this a one-sided endeavor...case in point --my local "Sunni" masjid is having an inter-faith Sunni-Shia discussion on Imam Hussein this weekend. Please realize that there's misinformation concerning our Madhab, and that that's why many main stream Sunnis have a confused notions concerning us--and that our approach to this situation must be in line with how the Ahlul-Bayt would approach our current situation. I invite you to read the following article by an influential "Sunni" activist: http://www.soundvision.com/article/a-call-for-shia-sunni-dialog

If you care for anything in terms of the direction of this Ummah...please realize that we really need to work on this area... and avoid the trap that those same Wahabbi killers who are killing innocent people and shrines want you to fall in...they want us to be the "other" and to be alienated. Don't let them.

Wa Salam.

**ShiaMan14** · October 30, 2015

Finally, when two parties unite, compromises has to be made from both parties, now, how do you intend unite with various factions within Sunnism? And how much are we willing to compromise with various factions in Sunnism? I guess you have not done your homework at this stage, because you have not looked at the bigger picture.

Did the Peace Treaty of Hudaibiya mean the Muslims had to give up on their faith or was it a political compromise/solution?

Was Imam Hasan's peace treaty with Muawiya based on creed or politics?

To expand on Sistani's message, "He said Sunni are not only our brothers but our nafs". Furthermore, he said the compromise is on political beliefs rather than PERSONAL beliefs.

@OP: Very nice thread. But need some clarification here.

- Care to describe the Sunni first?
- And how do you tell, say, a Salafi from a Sunni especially since the former also claims to be following Abu Hanifa?
- Are followers of Ibn Taymiyah Sunni according to you?
- What countries have Sunni majority?
- Are Salafis, Deobandis, Barelvis, Ahlul Hadith all Sunni? Which ones aren't?
- Are Sufis different? Which ones are Sunni?

Perhaps you are referring to all non-Shia?

Does it matter? You are either Pro-Ummah or not - I think that's the message.

**Ibn Al-Ja'abi** · October 30, 2015

bismih ta'ala

assalamu alaykum

Define: Inferiority complex.

wa assalam

Sumayyeh · October 30, 2015

Wa Alaykum Salam,

Courtesy of Wikipedia: An inferiority complex is a lack of self-worth, a doubt and uncertainty, and feelings of not measuring up to standards. It is often subconscious, and is thought to drive afflicted individuals to overcompensate, resulting either in spectacular achievement or extreme asocial behavior.

A.K.A. So-called "Shias" or "Sunnis" (doesn't matter) who thinks they're too good for getting along with other people...thinking they have to prove to everyone that they're right and everyone else is wrong..."extreme asocial behavior" spot on...

We should totally engage in healthy debates, and use logical reasoning to prove or disprove our points of view, or historical records. But to alienate yourself from others, engage in rudeness, or to make them unworthy of your cooperation...is not only un-Islamic; it is an utter disrespect for the teachings of our Ahlul-Bayt as the brother as the ShiaMan has so eloquently described above.

At this point---if anyone has any issues with Shia-Sunni Unity....you need to state it in the context of Ayatollah Sistani's statement on this issue.

We have our elders to look up to. Your biases should be left between you & the Ahlul-Bayt. I think the message that matters is loud and clear.

Does it matter? You are either Pro-Ummah or not - I think that's the message.

Wa Salam.

Sumerian · October 31, 2015

Salam.

This is the hadith:

محمد بن إسماعيل الرازي ، عن رجل سماه ، عن أبي عبد الله عليه السلام قال : دخل رجل على أبي عبد الله عليه السلام فقال : السلام عليك يا أمير المؤمنين ، فقام على قدميه فقال : مه هذا اسم لا يصلح إلا لأمير المؤمنين سماه به ، ولم يسم به أحد غيره فرضي به إلا كان منكوحا

“A man visited Aba Abdillah (as) and said: “Asalaama `alayka oh Ameer al-Mu’mineen”, so he (as) got up on his feet and said: “What! This name is not allowed except for Ameer al-Mu’mineen (as) (Ali bin abi Taleb) who was named this, and no one was named this name other than him (Ali), and was pleased with it – except that he was one who was penetrated (a passive homosexual)…”

Source: Wasaa’il al-Shia, Volume 14, Page 600, Hadith #1

Translation by purifiedhousehold.com

guest050817 · October 31, 2015

Salam.
This is the hadith:
محمد بن إسماعيل الرازي ، عن رجل سماه ، عن أبي عبد الله عليه السلام قال : دخل رجل على أبي عبد الله عليه السلام فقال : السلام عليك يا أمير المؤمنين ، فقام على قدميه فقال : مه هذا اسم لا يصلح إلا لأمير المؤمنين سماه به ، ولم يسم به أحد غيره فرضي به إلا كان منكوحا
“A man visited Aba Abdillah (as) and said: “Asalaama `alayka oh Ameer al-Mu’mineen”, so he (as) got up on his feet and said: “What! This name is not allowed except for Ameer al-Mu’mineen (as) (Ali bin abi Taleb) who was named this, and no one was named this name other than him (Ali), and was pleased with it – except that he was one who was penetrated (a passive homosexual)…”
Source: Wasaa’il al-Shia, Volume 14, Page 600, Hadith #1
Translation by purifiedhousehold.com

Grading ?

Again, the idea is not that we want to lower ourselves, let go of our core beliefs.

Rather, it is to acknowledge we are a minority, we do have a minority of over zealous and quite radical groups within shi'sm, who ruin and tarnish the name for the rest of us. There are media outlets and campaigns against us which have led many good people to dislike shi'sm.

Therefore we ought to grow thicker skin, overlook insults and be more patient , because there are good people with assumptions you can't blame them for really believing to a small extent, who might require we do remain patient in putting across what shia islam is.

Even for those who do zanjeer, believe Aisha murdered rasullah s.a.w, believe she also committed zina, believe Umar ibn Al Khattab was a homosexual , believe the blood of tatbir is 'pure', believe in saying inshAli instead of InshAllah, throw out the term 'batri', all of these which are not consensus beliefs nor agreed on practises in shia islam , being more diplomatic in how you hold and publicize these beliefs can help.

Personally speaking, i have reviewed the weak hadiths(to our own standards!) that accuse x and y of killing rasullah s.a.w. The 1-2 solitary hadiths are weak, they are barely enough evidence to throw in the accusation of murdering the greatest man in history and the greatest creation among us of Allah swt. Our ulema, past and present have not even agreed on that either. So Mr. X scholar who believes in it, spreads it, while i and a large body of us not believing in it does not mean we are doing taqqiyah, we just refuse to hold such a belief at all.

Quran: "O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm for Allah , witnesses in justice, and do not let the hatred of a people prevent you from being just."

Edited October 31, 2015 by Tawheed313

Sumerian · October 31, 2015

I don't know the grading. Sorry brother.

Abu'l Khattab · October 31, 2015

From Imam al-Sadiq (as) who said about the verse: "Whether you show what is within yourselves or conceal it, Allah will bring you to account for it. Then He will forgive whom He wills and punish whom He wills" (2:284)

He (as) said: "It is Allah's right not to enter paradise the one who has the weight of a mustard seed of love for Abu Bakr and Omar."

(Tafseer al-Ayyashi)

عن سعدان، عن رجل، عن أبي عبد الله عليه السلام في قوله: * (وإن تبدوا ما في أنفسكم أو تخفوه يحاسبكم به الله فيغفر لمن يشاء ويعذب من يشاء) * (6) قال: حقيق على الله أن لا يدخل الجنة من كان في قلبه مثقال حبة من خردل من حبهما

Edited October 31, 2015 by Abu'l Khattab

mina · October 31, 2015

We are siblings with all human beings,either in faith or in humanity...we have to get over shia,sunni,jewish,christian,african,yellow,pink,light,parttime,hardcore distinctions...yes we all differ what's the point?

We are all slaves of the system...so it's about the oppressed against their oppressors no matter which backround.

As long as we don't recognize that our resistance has to be against the elites and their helpers and unite to build a front (of course not by giving up or mixing our or others own beliefs)we will fail like the generations before.

btw co existence is a form of unity and this is what our ulama are talking about...living peaceful together despite differences not that all ppl have the same ideology or religion.No one ever said that.

May Allah guide us to his path.

**The Green Knight** · October 31, 2015

We're not the Takfirists nor the mass murderers. Rather we've been at the receiving end of the 1400 year old Shia genocide and takfir for Shia and even our Imams were not spared by the unjust who murder. Yet, we are and always will be the humanists who opt for peace and co-existance not just in the middle east but with the whole of humanity. Even now with the Sunni and Christians we fight the terror threat to defend the common people, not to steal oil or for peddling our flavor of mullahism but for God only.

That said, the duty of telling right and wrong (Amr bil ma'roof wa nuhyi anil Munker) can never be suppressed. Not by anyone. The blessed Household of Muhammad (pbuh) and their progeny are the Ark of Noah and the Gate of Repentance. Without them there can be no salvation. And that voice will never be silenced, whatever the price. This slogan, this call and invitation towards the teaching of the Ahl al Bayt (as) is for the ultimate benefit, eternal salvation and betterment of all others, there can be no better advice for them. And whoever mistakes it as division, sedition or "anti-ummah" activity is an ignorant who obviously does not keep the eternal afterlife, the real life in their view when they think of that.

To remain silent is not "respect" rather it is criminal, the ultimate form of animosity that in life you never warned your brothers of the great peril ahead. They will hold you responsible and you are responsible for not warning them and inviting them towards Haq.

Edited October 31, 2015 by Darth Vader

FromShiaSunniBrotherhood · October 31, 2015

The unity between Shias and Sunnis CAN NOT BE COMPARED TO THE UNITY BETWEEN JEWS AND MUSLIMS, OR MUSLIMS AND CHRISTIANS

Shias and Sunnis are brothers in faith. We need to educate people about what Shias believe and why they believe it and Sunnis need to do the same. Then every one can check facts and stick to what their heart approves of.

Look what has happened to us today, WE HAVE DRAWN SO MANY LINES IT IS SO HARD TO GET RID OF THEM AND THE MORE WE DELAY IS THE HARDER IT WILL BE.

Whoever came up with the idea of this post is the ONLY ONE SEEEING THE BIGGER PICTURE, rest of us are too bus defending 'our sect' instead of "saving islam".

Those who are accusing the only rightly minded person here of "Inferiority complex" Please read what the Quran says

"Hold onto the rope of Allah (Quran and Ahlul Bayt) and do not be divided"

"Mohammed is the messenger of God, and those who are with him are severe against the rejecters, but merciful between themselves. "

Notice "THOSE WHO ARE WITH MUHAMMAD" are merciful between themselves.

"AND SAY I AM THE CLARIGYING WARNER". AS WE HAVE SENT DOWN ON THE DIVIDERS. THE ONES WHO HAVE MADE THE QURAN OBSOLETE. BY LORD WE WILL ASK THEM ALL REGARDING WHAT THEY USED TO DO. "

From where i see it, being divided is not a leverage Islam allows Muslim community, we are all brothers in faith.

Edited October 31, 2015 by FromShiaSunniBrotherhood

October 31, 2015

Excellent posts by sis Noor and bro Akbar.

I don't quite understand this shia Sunni unity thing. Coexisting peacefully with people of other sects/religions, yes. Unity.... :unsure:

Would someone please explain to me, exactly what benefits are to be expected from this unity??

To the OP: the impression one gets after reading your post is as if its the Shias who possess a truculent attitude while its the other way round.Throughout the history it's the shias who have been oppressed, it's the Shias who are being massacred today.

So,when it comes to dealing with people of other sects good akhlaq should definitely be practised on an individual level, but Shias as a community bending over backwards to get sunnis to like them, big NO.

mina · October 31, 2015

I compare unity to the unity sports teams have...ppl of different faiths and ideologies play together and have the same aims within a set of rules that all agree on.

**alirex** · October 31, 2015

I like to mention very short thing which is very big in actual.

A Terrorist organization adopt a name " Ahle Sunnat Wal Jamaat " ASWJ in pakistan. Do you ever saw any condemn statements from any sect for the name they adopt ?

They are terrorist and they can not hold name of a sect. But no body care about it. There is mistake of majority sect they never care and keeping silence.

No shia can go against policy of Imam Ali to make United Ummah. We are firm on that, and following our Maraja and almost all said to strive for unity. But thier silence for every stupidity is the main thing which is creating problem.

I know they adopt that name with a plan. Bcoz media will write " Ahle Sunnat Wal Jamaat attacked a shia Mosque " and that will create a tension and result will give benefit to Aale Saud.

Edited October 31, 2015 by alirex

Skanderbeg · October 31, 2015

Salam,

Hatred is a reaction of intolerant behaviour and narrow-mindedness

if you'd ask me.

Where I live being a Shia means being an outcast. You're not even permitted to pray in their mosques if they don't abuse you at all.

They all believe that Shia Islam is invented by Ibn Saba and come with arguments like Shia people are people who just like to curse Sahaba and believe Aisha is an adulteress.

Case closed.

Edited October 31, 2015 by Skanderbeg

guest050817 · October 31, 2015

I just want to clarify again:

1. Shia's on average are far more tolerant.

2. The boards, the moderators, and admins VS ones i have seen on almost every other major sunni forum are also far more tolerant to our brothers and sisters in the ahlul-sunnah.

3. This trend is more or less the same in real life.

What i am trying to argue is, due to the media propaganda , oil-backed propaganda , due to actions such as blood-letting, tatbir, due to quite niche held-beliefs such as Aisha was an adulteress(God forbid) which the majority of us do not believe, due to people not just not performing public lanah, but also insulting, mocking, jeering, due to shia's (a minority) engaging in all sorts of strange practises, you find many sunni's are very confused about us.

I don't doubt, our core theology is not appetitsing to our brothers and sisters in the ahlul-sunnah, but the above only deepens the differences and animosity.

So when approaching our brothers and sisters, we need to take that into account - similar to how we are patient with non-muslims who think muslims are terrorists, or the prophet was a prophet of blood and opression and lust (God forbid). We need to be patient, we need to not give in to oppression we face and then just label them all under one homogenous block or, at the worst, mirror the terrible oppression matted out to us.

Sumayyeh · October 31, 2015

Salam Alaykum,

Just one more thing I'd like to add to the message the brother has given above...

I don't think anyone on here will deny that the biggest blessing is to have the Vilayat of Ameeral-Mumineen....

But that same Imam and Master---the strongest man in history--whether on battlefield or in his home---was silent for 25 years....

if you don't accept the words of a Marja, or appreciate the wisdom in the example of our Ahlul-Bayt....then what's the point in discussing this? Wasn't that supposed to be our common denominator?

Imam Hasan alayhe Salam signed a treated with the Munafiq...his time in history dictated that at the time.

Think outside the box--Please...it will do you good. And I hope we can have Shia-Shia unity while we're at it (Inshallah:)

guest050817 · October 31, 2015

Holy Quran: "And not equal are the good deed and the bad. Repel [evil] by that [deed] which is better; and thereupon the one whom between you and him is enmity [will become] as though he was a devoted friend."

~ThePond~ · November 1, 2015

Unity: the state of being united or joined as a whole

I do not see why this is not possible. Unity does not necessarily mean mutual agreement in terms of ideology. For example, interfaith unions do not attempt to homogenize the beliefs of various faiths; they attempt to seek common ground among similarities that the groups share, i.e. belief in a Higher Power. Seeing as we are both Muslim, naturally we share a lot of core beliefs. We share the five pillars of Islam; which is the fundamental core beliefs. We differ on terms of the legitimacy of rule, that is, who should guide the Muslim Ummah. Surely we can come together based on our love for Allah swt and Muhammad pbuh.

Sumayyeh · November 1, 2015

^See folks...it's not that hard of a concept :)

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