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ShiaMan14

Predestination Vs Free Will

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Salam Brothers & Sisters,

This is my perspective on the topic;

  • You're destined to meet someone who hate shia, it's up to you whether you want to do taqqiyah or not. If you're destined to die on the meeting, any option you took it got it's own measurement on the scale.
  • You have Al-Qur'an in your home, it's up to you whether you want to read it or not.
  • You're destined to read Al-Qur'an, it's up to you whether you want to purify yourself before read it or not.
  • You're destined to have a heart problem, it's up to you to take wine, other medicine, or get a surgery.
  • You're destined to have sujud in shalat, it's up to you on how many dzikr you want to read. 
  • You're destined to be in Imam Zaman's army (insya'Allah), it's up to you whether you want to die on the front-line or help people in the medic tent.
  • You're destined to be in a situation where you urgently need money, it's up to you whether you want to steal or pray.

So, imho, predestined is Allah (SWT) region, while we as the creation we have the freewill to increase or decrease the quality. How to increase? go by Al-Qur'an. How to decrease? take the other way.

I maybe destined to found this post in shiachat, it's up to me whether i keep silent or comment on it. But, i remember Al-'asr, i just hope whatever i did here (in this post) can bring goodness for me and others, insya'Allah.

Salam.

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On 23 November 2015 11:21:26 pm, diyaa110 said:

ethereal, would you expand on that ? how does being created in His eternal nature grants us free will and whats your notion of human freewill ? does it give any power to human to choose between right and wrong ?

To be free means to not be determined by anything outside of oneself.  In other words, to be free is to be oneself.  Your choices and the decisions you make are free when they flow naturally from your essence and not from anything outside of your essence.  The sun shines and emits rays not because of some factor that lies outside the essence of the sun.  The sun is completely "responsible" for its own shining.  This is true freewill.  It is a will that flows naturally from an essence without any break or inhibitor.  Now God is absolutely free.  And He is free in this sort of way.  His Act "flows" from His Essence.  This is why His Act is eternal just as His Essence is Eternal.  The degree to which an act is restrictedness or unrestricted is determined entirely by the degree to which an essence is limited or unlimited in being.  In the case of God's Essence, His Being is absolute and not limited and therefore the Act that naturally flows from His Being will also be absolute and unrestricted.  So, since God's Being Is pure, absolute, and unrestricted, so also His freedom is not restricted.  Everything other than God, however, is relative and restricted in its essence.  Therefore everything other than God has a relative sort of freedom.   The creatures are free in one respect but restricted in another.   

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On 11/23/2015, 11:21:26, diyaa110 said:

ethereal, would you expand on that ? how does being created in His eternal nature grants us free will and whats your notion of human freewill ? does it give any power to human to choose between right and wrong ?

Sorry for not answering your question completely before.  

To be free is to be yourself.  And your true Self is found in God alone.  So you are only free in God and not outside of God.  

 

 

 

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22 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

To be free means to not be determined by anything outside of oneself.  In other words, to be free is to be oneself.  Your choices and the decisions you make are free when they flow naturally from your essence and not from anything outside of your essence.  The sun shines and emits rays not because of some factor that lies outside the essence of the sun.  The sun is completely "responsible" for its own shining.  This is true freewill.  It is a will that flows naturally from an essence without any break or inhibitor.  Now God is absolutely free.  And He is free in this sort of way.  His Act "flows" from His Essence.  This is why His Act is eternal just as His Essence is Eternal.  The degree to which an act is restrictedness or unrestricted is determined entirely by the degree to which an essence is limited or unlimited in being.  In the case of God's Essence, His Being is absolute and not limited and therefore the Act that naturally flows from His Being will also be absolute and unrestricted.  So, since God's Being Is pure, absolute, and unrestricted, so also His freedom is not restricted.  Everything other than God, however, is relative and restricted in its essence.  Therefore everything other than God has a relative sort of freedom.   The creatures are free in one respect but restricted in another.   

But surely the Sun is not free. From one perspective it is neither free nor bound and from another perspective it is completely bound. I don't understand how it could possess any freewill let alone true freewill. Maybe you just gave the sun's example to explain your point.. like maybe if the sun had any say in it it would have liked to shine, follow its nature, but even in that case it would only be freewill when the sun has the option and capability to not shine as well.. and also that if it chooses not to shine it would be a bad decision that would go against the sun's essence but still it would undoubtedly be an act of freewill. You may argue that since it is going against its essence therefore the decision was determined by an outside factor, I don't know about the sun but a human has natural tendency for both good and bad, and bad decisions are just as much the outcome of freewill as good decisions are. Though it can be said that the best use of freewill is to follow our own essence with all our will. Or that the Sun would instantly become worthy of reward if it chooses to shine out of its own freewill.

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It was an analogy.  :)

 

if if it has an option to not shine then we can ask "why" it shined.  To ask "why" presumes that the reason lies outside the sun.  You cannot ask why a triangle has three sides because the reason why the triangle has three sides is because it is part of the triangle'so essence to have three sides.  But you can ask why the triangle is blue or green because blue or green is not part of the essence of a traingle.  And so the reason why the triangle is blue or green would have be found in some factor which is outside the essence of a triangle.  In the same way, the sun shines freely only because the reason it shines has to do with its own very nature and not because of something outside of it.  

 

I am not sure I understood what you said towards the end regarding "the sun shining out of its own free will".

 

but does a a human have the nature to be good and bad.  Now, by good and bad I assume you mean, one either follows God's commands and prohibitions or he does not.  I would say that whatever he chooses is because he couldn't have chosen otherwise. And this is precisely why he is free! His freedom lies precisely in not being able to choose otherwise because if he could choose otherwise then the reason for his choice would lie outside of his essence.  Now there are some essences which are good and some which are bad, and this is precisely WHY they are free.  

 

Edited by eThErEaL

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3 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

It was an analogy.  :)

 

if if it has an option to not shine then we can ask "why" it shined.  To ask "why" presumes that the reason lies outside the sun.  You cannot ask why a triangle has three sides because the reason why the triangle has three sides is because it is part of the triangle'so essence to have three sides.  But you can ask why the triangle is blue or green because blue or green is not part of the essence of a traingle.  And so the reason why the triangle is blue or green would have be found in some factor which is outside the essence of a triangle.  In the same way, the sun shines freely only because the reason it shines has to do with its own very nature and not because of something outside of it.  

 

I am not sure I understood what you said towards the end regarding "the sun shining out of its own free will".

 

but does a a human have the nature to be good and bad.  Now, by good and bad I assume you mean, one either follows God's commands and prohibitions or he does not.  I would say that whatever he chooses is because he couldn't have chosen otherwise. And this is precisely why he is free! His freedom lies precisely in not being able to choose otherwise because if he could choose otherwise then the reason for his choice would lie outside of his essence.  Now there are some essences which are good and some which are bad, and this is precisely WHY they are free.  

 

So... a triangle can be influenced to choose either blue or green. Let's say it chooses blue, then you would say that it is not free because the choice was determined by an outside factor. Yet on the other hand you will say that whatever it chooses is because it couldn't have chosen otherwise and this is precisely why it is free. Since it's choice of blue tells us that it was always part of its essence to go for blue. Have I understood you correctly ? 

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5 hours ago, diyaa110 said:

So... a triangle can be influenced to choose either blue or green. Let's say it chooses blue, then you would say that it is not free because the choice was determined by an outside factor. Yet on the other hand you will say that whatever it chooses is because it couldn't have chosen otherwise and this is precisely why it is free. Since it's choice of blue tells us that it was always part of its essence to go for blue. Have I understood you correctly ? 

Well, as you know, blueness or redness isn't what makes a triangle a triangle.  What makes a triangle a triangle is that it has three sides.  So, in your example, blueness cannot possibly be part of a triangles essence.  But otherwise, I agree with what you said. Yes!

A better analogy would be an apple seed which cannot grow and develop into a pear tree or an apricot tree. An apple seed can only grow into an apple tree.  If that seed could develop into ANY tree, then it is NOT free because the answer to the question "why it developed into that tree and not another tree" would have to be found in a factor that lies outside the essence of that seed.  This is why mystics would say that each thing is free to the extent that it is what it is!  In other words, to be, means to be free!  Being is freedom!  Absolute unrestricted being is pure and absolute freedom.  And beings that are delimited (such as the rock, the tree, you and I) are more or less free.  So, even the analogy of the sun, is not a mere analogy or figure of speech to say that it is free!  And the same goes for the triangle (the triangle as such is free insofar as it is).

It is important to understand that this sort of "metaphysical freedom" which I have described above is not "robotic", or "mechanical".  Nay, it is in fact conscious because it is in the very nature of consciousness to be free in this sort of way.  And the result of thinking in this sort of way, which is a pre-modern, traditional or mystical understanding, is that the whole world becomes conscious and alive, because each and every thing become a living expression of freedom and consciousness.  This sounds unusual for us moderns but this is because we think of consciousness as a "little person" in our head.  We moderns have misunderstood the fact that each essence is in itself a conscious reality!  Even a stone, or a pebble is a conscious reality.  What else can it be?  How can any given essence or a quality be "dead"?  Each and every essence is alive because it can be nothing but a kind of knowledge.  This is what an essence is!  An essence is only an essence if it is a kind of knowledge!  Everything is an essence and so everything is conscious or a knowledge.  Ask yourself who YOU are.  Are you a little person in your head?  Is that little person in your head who talks what it means to be conscious?  No! Because there is consciousness of that little person in your head.  If you examine carefully, your brain, or that little person in your head, is an essence just like the stone and the tree and the sky are essences.  And essences are all part of a consciousness reality which does not belong to you or to me or to anyone.  This conscious reality in itself is God.  

 

 

 

Edited by eThErEaL

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On 11/27/2015 at 6:07 AM, eThErEaL said:

Ask yourself who YOU are.  Are you a little person in your head?  Is that little person in your head who talks what it means to be conscious?  

umm.. yeah :) I think so.

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Quote

What Is Possible

But a change in destiny in the sense that the factor bringing about the change should itself be a manifestation of what Allah has decreed, is possible. Though it may look rather queer, it is a fact that the destiny can be changed by another destiny.

It may look more surprising if we think of the divine aspect of fate and destiny, for a change in this aspect implies a change in the celestial world, in the angelic tablets and books and in the Divine Knowledge. So can Allah’s Knowledge still undergo a change? The surprise reaches its height when we admit that certain terrestrial affairs, especially human will and actions cause changes in the celestial world and the angelic record.

Is it not a fact that the terrestrial and material system emanates from the celestial system? Is it not a fact that the terrestrial world is inferior and the celestial world is superior? Is it not a fact that the human world is dominated by the angelic world? Is it still possible that a lower system, or at least a part of it, viz. the human world should influence a higher system and bring about changes in it, even if these changes also should take place in accordance with an appointed destiny? Here several remarkable questions crop up consecutively. Is the Knowledge of Allah changeable? Is a divine decree revocable? Can an inferior influence a superior?

The answer to these questions is in the affirmative. Yes, the Knowledge of Allah is changeable. In other words Allah has such knowledgealso which is changeable. A divine decree is revocable. In other words Allah has decrees which are revocable. An inferior can influence a superior. A lower system, especially the will, desire and human acts can shake the higher world and cause changes in it. This is the highest form of man’s control of his destiny.

We admit that this statement is surprising, but it is factual. This is that lofty question of Bada’ which for the first time in human history was mentioned by the Qur’an.

Allah creates whatever He wants (out of what was recorded previously) and records whatever He wants (that was not recorded previously) and with Him alone is the Mother Book”. (Surah al-Ra’d, 13:39)

The doctrine has no precedent in the field of human knowledge. Among the Muslim sects it is only the Twelver Shi’ahs who have been able to derive this truth from the sayings of the Imams of the Ahlul-Bayt and they are proud of this distinction.

http://www.al-islam.org/man-and-his-destiny-ayatullah-murtadha-mutahhari/part-5-freedom-and-liberty#what-possible

We always think of the book or knowledge of Allah as written material or space-time frames that have to exactly match the reality that is unfolding... but if we think of this book as a program written in some programming language with commands and clauses and possibility of different outcomes then the 'controlled' and 'written' part holds true too while 'freewill' and 'changeable destiny' holds true all the same. At least in the case of humans (or jinns).

Also, read this:

“In Islam there is an issue called bada' (revision). The concept of bada' has an apparent meaning which few would regard as acceptable. Some have even criticized the Shi'ah for believing in bada'. The meaning of bada' is revision in Divine Destiny (qada'), meaning that God has not fixed a definite and final form for the course of human history. In other words, God Says to man: "You yourselves are in charge of the fulfilment of Divine Destiny, and it is you who can advance, stop or reverse the course of history." There is no blind determinism either on the part of nature or the means of life or from the viewpoint of Divine Destiny, to rule over history.” - Murtaza Mutahhari http://www.imamreza.net/eng/imamreza.php?id=641

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4 hours ago, diyaa110 said:

http://www.al-islam.org/man-and-his-destiny-ayatullah-murtadha-mutahhari/part-5-freedom-and-liberty#what-possible

We always think of the book or knowledge of Allah as written material or space-time frames that have to exactly match the reality that is unfolding... but if we think of this book as a program written in some programming language with commands and clauses and possibility of different outcomes then the 'controlled' and 'written' part holds true too while 'freewill' and 'changeable destiny' holds true all the same. At least in the case of humans (or jinns).

Also, read this:

“In Islam there is an issue called bada' (revision). The concept of bada' has an apparent meaning which few would regard as acceptable. Some have even criticized the Shi'ah for believing in bada'. The meaning of bada' is revision in Divine Destiny (qada'), meaning that God has not fixed a definite and final form for the course of human history. In other words, God Says to man: "You yourselves are in charge of the fulfilment of Divine Destiny, and it is you who can advance, stop or reverse the course of history." There is no blind determinism either on the part of nature or the means of life or from the viewpoint of Divine Destiny, to rule over history.” - Murtaza Mutahhari http://www.imamreza.net/eng/imamreza.php?id=641

Salam,

 

Thank you for sharing this material.  I didn't know al-islam is capable of this kind of mass misinformation.  Truly shocking indeed.  Unfortuantely most of this material is wrong.  Either it is a misunderstanding of what scholars have said, or it is (compounded with) a misunderstanding of the very idea of Bada and its misapplication.  

The concept of bada' in Twelver Shiasm is rooted in the historical split between Ismailism and the non-Ismaili Shias.  Ismail was supposed to be the Imam but he passed away. And in place of Ismail his brother, Imam Musa (as), was declared as the Imam. The Ismaili's have always objected to Twelver Shias by asking them "how Imamat can change if it is divinely determined?"  This is surely a tough question to answer and Ismailis to this day have a field day when it comes to this point!  Now it is reported that in response to the Ismaili question the Imam said (through a khabar wahid) something about "bada".  Now, did the Imam even say this?  We don't know, and we can't be sure.  Now, if one says that God's knowledge changes then this is blasphemy.  It doesn't matter if the Imam himself said it.  If the Imam said such a thing, then he is wrong (our intellect & Quran should always trump a khabar wahid report)  Even the the writers who wrote what you quoted from al-islam admit that it doesn't make so much sense!  But, having said all that.... of course an Imam would never say such a thing! And if the Imam did in fact say that then there ought to be a better way of interpretting what he said.  And the good news is that there IS a better way of interpretting what the Imam said!  And here goes:

The knowledge of God DOES indeed change, but not from His point of view.  The knwoledge of God changes from OUR POINT OF VIEW (and it chnages at every moment).  Every moment is a new moment. 

I said it very simply. :)  

Ethereal

 

  

 

 

 

Edited by eThErEaL

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I started this topic but have not contributed much to it. I am fascinated by the points of view of everyone posting here - and enjoy reading the comments.

I hope to generate similar discussions in my comparison of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs to Nafs.

was salaam

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On 12/16/2015 at 9:13 AM, eThErEaL said:

Thank you for sharing this material.  I didn't know al-islam is capable of this kind of mass misinformation.  Truly shocking indeed.  Unfortuantely most of this material is wrong.  Either it is a misunderstanding of what scholars have said, or it is (compounded with) a misunderstanding of the very idea of Bada and its misapplication. 

It is shocking I know. I actually read the book in urdu in paperback and found it in english on al-islam for reference. When I shared this in a family discussion my uncle said something similar that perhaps the translator didn't do his job very well or failed to understand the point Mutahhiri was making. But both the urdu and english versions give exactly the same idea. Now someone who's well-versed with Mutahhri's views or has read the Persian original can tell better but I doubt that it says anything different, I also doubt that a scholar like Mutahhiri failed to understand the concept of Bada'. 

And though it seems that what Mutahhri said is contradicting from the definition you give for Bada' (and which is the popular and accepted definition) but I don't find it so and I'm also impressed with using the concept of bada' in this way to solve the dilemma of freewill. I mean.. in this day and age of technology and advancement we can no longer imagine the knowledge of God to be like a fixed timeline or like a book which contains fixed words or letters or events. In other words, it is not like a movie which is played frame by frame... but it is more like a video game or software like Windows. Now, is a video game predestined ? Yes, it is. No matter how we play it, does it add anything new to the knowledge or database of the video game ? No, it doesn't. The game creator knows all possibilities and outcomes of all actions and he knows the minimum and maximum scores and there is nothing a user can do to cause any addition of knowledge to the game or system. So considering this particular example you can also say that whatever happens in the game and how we proceed in the game and all the changes which occur owing to the buttons we press only change from our point of view. . . the game creator knows exactly what comes next; for the player every moment and image is new yet it isn't new for the game creator. 

If we forget that there is a world outside the video game where we're sitting on the couch, and subtract everything else other than whats needed to play the game, then we only need a thinking mind and an ability to press buttons. Now if these two qualities are implanted within one of the bodily characters in the game then it would represent our life in this world... where we do not create our bodies, do not create the world around us, do not have much control over the way it works - the only thing we truly own here and about which we are responsible is our mind and ability to choose our actions. (Whereby actions are also predestined in that they are limited and have a predestined function assigned to them, and the mind also works in a predestined manner in that it has a certain design, scope and way of operating.. the command to choose is also predestined so that one has to choose one of the available options - and this command precisely requires that there be no compulsion or predestination in what one chooses.) If this was not the case then any accountability of our actions would be absolutely meaningless and unjust. 

Edited by diyaa110

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15 hours ago, diyaa110 said:

It is shocking I know. I actually read the book in urdu in paperback and found it in english on al-islam for reference. When I shared this in a family discussion my uncle said something similar that perhaps the translator didn't do his job very well or failed to understand the point Mutahhiri was making. But both the urdu and english versions give exactly the same idea. Now someone who's well-versed with Mutahhri's views or has read the Persian original can tell better but I doubt that it says anything different, I also doubt that a scholar like Mutahhiri failed to understand the concept of Bada'. 

And though it seems that what Mutahhri said is contradicting from the definition you give for Bada' (and which is the popular and accepted definition) but I don't find it so and I'm also impressed with using the concept of bada' in this way to solve the dilemma of freewill. I mean.. in this day and age of technology and advancement we can no longer imagine the knowledge of God to be like a fixed timeline or like a book which contains fixed words or letters or events. In other words, it is not like a movie which is played frame by frame... but it is more like a video game or software like Windows. Now, is a video game predestined ? Yes, it is. No matter how we play it, does it add anything new to the knowledge or database of the video game ? No, it doesn't. The game creator knows all possibilities and outcomes of all actions and he knows the minimum and maximum scores and there is nothing a user can do to cause any addition of knowledge to the game or system. So considering this particular example you can also say that whatever happens in the game and how we proceed in the game and all the changes which occur owing to the buttons we press only change from our point of view. . . the game creator knows exactly what comes next; for the player every moment and image is new yet it isn't new for the game creator. 

If we forget that there is a world outside the video game where we're sitting on the couch, and subtract everything else other than whats needed to play the game, then we only need a thinking mind and an ability to press buttons. Now if these two qualities are implanted within one of the bodily characters in the game then it would represent our life in this world... where we do not create our bodies, do not create the world around us, do not have much control over the way it works - the only thing we truly own here and about which we are responsible is our mind and ability to choose our actions. (Whereby actions are also predestined in that they are limited and have a predestined function assigned to them, and the mind also works in a predestined manner in that it has a certain design, scope and way of operating.. the command to choose is also predestined so that one has to choose one of the available options - and this command precisely requires that there be no compulsion or predestination in what one chooses.) If this was not the case then any accountability of our actions would be absolutely meaningless and unjust. 

Salam, 

The addition of knowledge to the one who made the game would be that if you, for example, play the game you will win, and if I play then I will lose.  If Zayd plays the game will reach the 3rd place, if Amr plays he will reach 2nd place.    

Although I am determined to choose between (A) or (B), the fact that I have chosen (A) and not (B) without God determining that particular choice, means that God is not omnipotent (that something lies outside the scope of his power and control).  

I am not arguing that we do NOT have free will.  I believe in freewill and that we can make a change in our destiny. (Change one destiny into another).  And as you said correctly that this freedom or change is experienced from our point of view.  From God's point of view our ultimate destiny has been predetermined and known entirely.  From His point of view we don't have any freewill simply because nothing other than Hinself exists (from His point of View)!    

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On 12/19/2015 at 4:40 AM, eThErEaL said:

And as you said correctly that this freedom or change is experienced from our point of view.  From God's point of view our ultimate destiny has been predetermined and known entirely.

Knowing our destiny and controlling our destiny are different, correct?

Allah knows our life from end-end but that does not mean He has 'written' it to be this way.

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On December 21, 2015 at 6:04 PM, shiaman14 said:

Knowing our destiny and controlling our destiny are different, correct?

Allah knows our life from end-end but that does not mean He has 'written' it to be this way.

it means that you couldn't have been any other way because God's knowledge is eternal and unchanging (and as such His knowledge couldn't have been any other way).  I am not denying freewill.  I am a staunch proponent of freewill.  But I am also a staunch proponent of predestination.  I believe the two compatible and are simply two sides of the same coin.  

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4 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

Hmmm, to me me freewill is the exact opposite of predestination. Am I choosing to write this post or am I destined to write it?

there is no such thing as one way or the other, there is a bit of both in everything , otherwise nothing will be connected 

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30 minutes ago, mightymask said:

there is no such thing as one way or the other, there is a bit of both in everything , otherwise nothing will be connected 

I could agree to this. But why the need for heaven and hell then if hings are predetermined?

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I believe Allah is all knowing as such God knows what is possible to happen, but gives you the choice of the possibilities.

Imagine a door and behind it is 20 other doors. And behind each door is another 20 doors. God knows what is behind each door but gives you the option to enter the doors.

 

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On 10/29/2015 at 5:32 PM, shiaman14 said:

I heard a hadith of Imam Ali as that a man came and asked him do we have free will or is everything predetermined. Imam Ali as asked him to stand on 1 leg; after a brief pause Imam Ali as asked him to raise his other leg. Obviously he couldnt. So Imam Ali as said that is free will. We are in control up to a certain point and then Allah swt from there on.

 

So how much of our life is free will and how much is predestined?

 

I would love to hear from all faiths and creeds about this.

:bismillah:

:salam:

Everything you do is predetermined.

The difference between predetermined and free will is that the former is what is coming regardless and the latter is how you handle what is coming. 

When you wake up in the morning, and your parents are in the family room eating breakfast, you might go brush your teeth or greet them or choose to keep sleeping, but your reaction or how you handle that is free will. 

You may wake up in the morning to go to school or to work, this is predestination. At your school or work, you may get a bad grade on an exam or a complaint from your manager or any other situation you may encounter, how you choose to react to these situations is up to you. You have free will and control over it. 

 

:ws: 

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56 minutes ago, 2113 said:

At your school or work, you may get a bad grade on an exam or a complaint from your manager or any other situation you may encounter, how you choose to react to these situations is up to you. You have free will and control over it.  

Are bad grades pre-determined? Or is a complaint by manager pre-determined?

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:bismillah:

:salam:

No. Not at all. Allah(swt) does not create people to be miserable. He leaves open paths for us. Sometimes the correct path may be blurry and we may not be able to comprehend but there is always a correct path nonetheless. In the case of the bad grades, you probably would have had the free will to study before you took the exam. You just didn't. Regarding the complaint by the manager, there is a correct path to that situation too. If you are working at a checkout register and a customer becomes angry with you, you have the free will to react back angrily towards them or just call your manager. In some cases obviously, there is just bad luck involved and you may be at the wrong place at the wrong time. 

:ws:  

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On ‎20‎/‎01‎/‎2016 at 8:49 PM, 2113 said:

:bismillah:

:salam:

No. Not at all. Allah(swt) does not create people to be miserable. He leaves open paths for us. Sometimes the correct path may be blurry and we may not be able to comprehend but there is always a correct path nonetheless. In the case of the bad grades, you probably would have had the free will to study before you took the exam. You just didn't. Regarding the complaint by the manager, there is a correct path to that situation too. If you are working at a checkout register and a customer becomes angry with you, you have the free will to react back angrily towards them or just call your manager. In some cases obviously, there is just bad luck involved and you may be at the wrong place at the wrong time. 

:ws:  

Excellently explained except forthe "bad luck" thing:there is no such thing as 'luck'!Everything happens because of God's will.

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On 12/25/2015 at 10:32 PM, eThErEaL said:

it means that you couldn't have been any other way because God's knowledge is eternal and unchanging (and as such His knowledge couldn't have been any other way).  I am not denying freewill.  I am a staunch proponent of freewill.  But I am also a staunch proponent of predestination.  I believe the two compatible and are simply two sides of the same coin.  

Do you mind expanding on this?

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